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imronburgundy

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2013
236
280
Great for anyone still using the platform, but too little too late. Smart tv apps took over the function of my ATV4.
 

beanbaguk

macrumors 65816
Mar 19, 2014
1,338
2,341
Europe
I'm slowly using my Apple TV less and less these days.....

My smart TV has Netflix, Amazon Prime, Google, BBC iPlayer, ITV player, C4, 5 OnDemand, NowTV and loads more. Not to mention all of this in 4K where available.

Apple TV lacks Amazon Prime (until now), ITV Player, C4, 5 OnDemand but it does have TV Player (UK online streaming) and none of it in 4K.

Apple need to play serious catch-up....
 

imronburgundy

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2013
236
280
Pointless at this stage for me, got a nvidia shield and the Apple TV is gathering dust, one app does not fix its problems.

I just bought one as well, and My God what an amazing device. Streaming pc games over LAN in 4K60fps is a dream.
 
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lsutigerfan1976

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,751
1,734
So we get an announcement in June that this app will available late summer, early fall. Instead of just releasing the app. Right.... lulz
 

vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,168
9,235
Columbus, OH
He said "buying", not "already owning".

Between the office and home, I have 6 TVs, all of which are 1080p. But if I were to buy a TV tomorrow, it would 100% be 4K.

Honestly this is what people completely forget when saying "don't need 4K yet". It's pretty much a guarantee that anyone who purchases a TV from here on out will be getting a 4K model. You're shopping bottom of the barrel TV's if not. I'm still currently using my ATV3 as the ATV4 was not compelling enough for me to upgrade. If customers buy some yet to be announced ATV5, they're probably going to want it to support 4K (and HDR!) so they're ready to go when they finally upgrade to a 4K TV. That's just one reason I didn't buy the 4 when it launched. I thought, why buy the 4 when I'll probably still be using it when I buy a 4K TV (which I did a couple months ago). I decided waiting for the 5 was the better choice.

Not to mention, that's 15-20% of the market Apple is basically giving up by default when consumers are shopping for streaming devices and find out that the ATV won't support the 4K their shiny new TV can display.
 
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harley3k

macrumors 6502
Feb 6, 2008
318
106
I would switch to my smartTV interface to watch Prime there (in 4K mind you), and then find myself staying there to also watch Hulu and Netflix, etc... leaving me out of the Apple Ecosystem for an extended period of time... If it weren't for the craptastic Sony remote I had to use I might just ditch AppleTV altogether. Just sayin'.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,742
2,690
I expect Apple to LEAD the market, not respond to it. It's embarrassing that they didn't include it on the Apple TV 4. There was no compelling reason not to. Lead the way and let the content follow.
You're describing the Samsung way to lead - race to market with technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported just to win new sales in that quarter. It's short term thinking. Apple knows that 4k saturation is a 10 year process and they are not worried about losing a few million sales to early adopters. The same thing happened with 3G and 4G and Wi-Fi 802.11AC and they are fine.
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What are the estimates of % of people buying new TV sets? I would guess more than 80% would buy a 4K set. That's what everybody looks at.
If your estimates were true, then we would have 100% 4k penetration by Christmas. Nothing works like that. Most people shopping will not even consider 4k because of price difference, lack of content and picture quality (1080p HDR looks better than straight 4k). We won't even have 50% 4k penetration by 2020.
[doublepost=1494603956][/doublepost]
Perhaps not, but releasing a 4K Apple TV can help make it mainstream.
Apple, more than anyone, will help make 4k mainstream. But they have their own timeline. Remember the 3G iPhone. They nearly took down AT&T's network because so much bandwidth was suddenly in demand at one time.
 

chukronos

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2004
458
186
Colleyville, TX
Not to mention, that's 15-20% of the market Apple is basically giving up by default when consumers are shopping for streaming devices and find out that the ATV won't support the 4K their shiny new TV can display.

That's the whole reason I haven't purchased the newest ATV, the 3rd gen atv is on the kid's tv since it is only 1080p. You can't buy a decent tv without 4k today. 1080 tv's are great for little kids, outdoors, and bathrooms.
 
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chukronos

macrumors 6502
Oct 20, 2004
458
186
Colleyville, TX
Most people shopping will not even consider 4k because of price difference, lack of content and picture quality (1080p HDR looks better than straight 4k).

Absolutely not true. People buying today don't have much of a choice. Only the cheapest tv's lacking the most features have 1080p. I think samsung still sells some 1080p 2015 models at best buy. Point is, if they want a decent TV, they will have no choice but to get 4k.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,742
2,690
I expect Apple to LEAD the market, not respond to it. It's embarrassing that they didn't include it on the Apple TV 4. There was no compelling reason not to. Lead the way and let the content follow.
Since Apple doesn't sell 4k TV sets, they don't have a big incentive to jump onto that standard as quickly because they cannot control it. They behaved the same way with 3G and 4G cellular networks too. It also would've cut too deeply into their margins if they included support too early. Realistically, they probably lost about 10,000 customers but saved about $100,000,000. Once they do support 4k, they will go about winning back half of those lost customers so they still come out ahead.
 

Mockenrue

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2013
307
83
You're describing the Samsung way to lead - race to market with technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported just to win new sales in that quarter. It's short term thinking.

I prefer addition of new standards that early adopters can enjoy and others can ignore because the old standards are still supported, rather than the replacement of current standards with "technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported". I've encountered a lot more tech that natively supports 4k than USB-C. Unfortunately, it seems like the Apple way to lead is - race to market with technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported just to get thinner devices.

This coming from an iPhone 7 and 12" Macbook owner who consistently runs into frustrating scenarios where I miss USB-A or the headphone jack, and Apple TV 4 owner who really wanted it to be better.
 

wigby

macrumors 68030
Jun 7, 2007
2,742
2,690
Absolutely not true. People buying today don't have much of a choice. Only the cheapest tv's lacking the most features have 1080p. I think samsung still sells some 1080p 2015 models at best buy. Point is, if they want a decent TV, they will have no choice but to get 4k.
Haven't you heard of the bargain bin? TV makers will be selling old inventory there for years to come. It's the basis of every Black Friday sale. There will be 5x as many 1080p TV sets sold this years as 4k. The same reason there are 5x as many PCs sold as Mac every year.
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I prefer addition of new standards that early adopters can enjoy and others can ignore because the old standards are still supported, rather than the replacement of current standards with "technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported". I've encountered a lot more tech that natively supports 4k than USB-C. Unfortunately, it seems like the Apple way to lead is - race to market with technology that is either not fully working or not fully supported just to get thinner devices.

This coming from an iPhone 7 and 12" Macbook owner who consistently runs into frustrating scenarios where I miss USB-A or the headphone jack, and Apple TV 4 owner who really wanted it to be better.
That would be ideal but tech markets don't work that way, at least companies that do that tend to lose money because they cannot support multiple standards at once without passing that cost onto the consumer. It also sends a confusing message to consumers and developers. When you support old and new standards together, there is very little incentive for customers and developers to create products for the new standard so it withers and dies. The only time I see Apple jump quickly into new markets is when they completely control the standard or at least helped create it which is the case with things like lightning, thunderbolt and even USB C.
 

vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,168
9,235
Columbus, OH
Haven't you heard of the bargain bin? TV makers will be selling old inventory there for years to come. It's the basis of every Black Friday sale. There will be 5x as many 1080p TV sets sold this years as 4k. The same reason there are 5x as many PCs sold as Mac every year.

Is that Apple's new market now, bargain bin shoppers lol? I'm pretty confident Apple's target market is a little more upscale than that, especially for their products outside of the iPhone, in which they try to reach into the lower-end of the market by continuing to sell older or cheaper (iPhone SE) models. Understandable since the iPhone is far and away their best selling and most profitable product. And these bargain bin shoppers of which you speak will probably be content to use the built-in smart TV features, rather than purchasing a streaming device that accomplishes basically the same thing.

Using some actual numbers the most expensive 1080p TV on bestbuy's website is $600. An ATV4 starts at $150. You're telling me a reasonable number of these bargain bin shoppers are going to spend at a minimum, 25% of the cost of the TV on something that it can already do? I don't think so.

Also, don't make up numbers. 24% of TV's sold in 2016 were 4K and that trend isn't going to suddenly reverse. Projections for 2017 are that around 40% will be 4K models, significantly higher than the ~16% you pulled out of your butt. This isn't 2015 anymore, 4K is mainstream and cheap.
 
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jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Estimates pin about 15%-20% of U.S. homes to have 4k sets right now. Is that mainstream?

While my household does not have a 4k TV, and I was right there in 2015 saying 4k was not mainstream enough, I think that 15-20% of households, primarily the more well-off households, having 4k means it is absolutely in Apple's "mainstream". The primary question, really, is content, not TV devices. Also recognize that we are not just looking at current 4k footprint, but the footprint we expect in fall of 2019. Apple TVs are not updated yearly or more frequently; they typically go a few years between updates. Moreover, at the ATV price points it is not seen as a "disposable" purchase.

I strongly suspect a new AppleTV this fall, which supports 4k. To do otherwise would be uncharacteristically foolish for Apple.
 

Terrinb

macrumors regular
Sep 24, 2015
134
144
Big announcement? They'll probably spend 5 minutes on stage talking about it, if that. It's not like the entire event is about Amazon Prime Video. Also, why would you blame both sides? The App Store developer tools have been there for quite some time now... the only ones who chose not to use them is Amazon.
[doublepost=1494533272][/doublepost]
It was Amazon. I sincerely doubt Apple blocked the app from being on the App Store.


Agreed. There plenty of other apps there.
 

edoates

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2006
299
6
What Apple needs to do is to create a 4K Apple TV. I'll still use my FireTV 4K for Amazon until Apple TV gets with the times, not only for Amazon, but for Netflix as well.
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
Hm, just when I was thinking of replacing my Apple TVs with Amazon boxes, or possibly NVidia's.

Amazon just greatly improved its UI and it's now better than Roku's and close to ATV's. I may still do it, since I already have a few Alexas, plus Apple has started removing all Put.io apps from iTunes.

The Put.io app Fetch was the main thing keeping me tied to my ATV 4s, but Apple banned it.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
Lesson learn't Apple: Give the baby want its wants and everything will be fine.. No needed to just stop selling AppleTV in the Amazon Store, just because it can't get want it wants.
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,460
Vilano Beach, FL
Now if I can get Vudu I can ditch the Roku's completely.

Yep, Vudu makes even less sense than Amazon - even if the latter was in perpetual negotiations to reduce the sub costs, there was still some motivation for Amazon to push it's whole ecosystem. Vudu doesn't have that to worry about, they're strictly content, even with the vig to Apple, that seems like a whole market segment being ignored, and to top it off, they do make an iOS app, it supports Airplay, you can play movies "through" an Apple TV. Walmart +sells+ Apple TVs FFS!

At this point, I'm not purchasing any more Vudu/UV content, I was doing the Disc-to-Digital when they had the 10 for 50% off offer (that was a pretty solid way to get HD digital copies from your old DVDs), but with offer gone, and no native ATV app, it's a no go for me.

Heck, I don't even mind buying movies from Google Play, at least there's native playback on an AppleTV (or if they're Disney, full integration into iTunes).


Not a bunch of people reported on it but this is essentially why you saw a trickle of 4k content.
4K content won't fly without HEVC to shrink the datarates. Both sides patched it up. Look for much more
4k content 2H 2017

Terrific post, I followed that development as I got deep into the whole 4K content, equipment, competing specs research. I'd expect - like you - a big uptick in the available 4K content this year.


Seriously? Of all the paid services available Amazon Prime is far and away the best value, from the free one and two-day shipping on Amazon, the photo storage, music, books and video. Not to mention discounts on products. Who else gives even close to all of that for a price that can match it?

Yeah, just a video streaming service, is one thing, but if you're a fairly regular consumer of physical products from Amazon, the shipping offset (and convenience) is WELL worth it, when you factor in Video, other cloud services (music, etc.), special buyer perks. Heck, I've got two things inbound from Amazon right now, ordered them just a couple of hours ago, and they'll be here on Sunday, right on time, with no shipping costs.


Great. What about pronhub?

I hope I'm not the _only_ person who laughed at this ... :D
 
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