Apple to Begin Advertising Push Targeting Windows 7 Launch?

[LagunaSol]

macs are much cheaper to run. and miles better.

Your responding to the troll makes the troll's comments appear to me even though I've wisely added him (her?) to my Ignore User list...

Add him/her (and other commenters of his/her ilk) to your ignore list and let's return this forum to viable debate about the good and evil of Apple without the juvenile nonsense from the rabid Apple haters that takes every thread down the drain.

 

[Eidorian]

Funny how it's my Windows-using friends and relatives who are always asking me for help because they have no idea how to work their "market share-dominating" computer. Who are the sheep again, exactly?

That isn't dependent on the operating system people use. I've done my fair share of hand holding for Mac users. I wouldn't insult their intelligence either.

 

[Fastshutter]

Funny how it's my Windows-using friends and relatives who are always asking me for help because they have no idea how to work their "market share-dominating" computer. Who are the sheep again, exactly?

Funny how it's my Windows & Mac using friends, relatives, and coworkers who are always asking me for help because they have no idea how to work "any" computer.

There really isn't a better OS for people who really suck with computers.

 

[satcomer]

Many of us have been using XP for years, inherited a PC or updated software from networks no longer available to us. Not like the Apple world where the hardware and the OS are both new. I agree that many people will freak out at the thought of having to re-format a PC to upgrade to System 7. Ain't gonna happen.

That statement is the most honest I have seen about Windows 7. Microsoft is fooling themselves in thinking most every PC is going to to upgraded to Windows 7. People will get Windows 7 (just like every other version of Windows) when they finally have enough money to buy a new PC. That is the cold hard truth that most tech writers have forgotten about.

 

[Veri]

On my home workstation I've been running the 90 day trial of Windows 7 Enterprise RTM for the past few weeks, and, well, each day I'm finding less reason to return to OS X. It's refreshing to know that what I want will actually be available, instead of the Mac "I wonder if there's something similar for OS X" dance - inevitably ending with some product not nearly as feature-complete as its Windows counterpart - which I've played during my last two years' foray into trying a home OS X workstation. Even in the non-specialist categories, it's a pleasure to go back to VMware everything vs limited Fusion, NaturallySpeaking vs limited MacSpeech, Office 2007 vs limited Office 2008+Mail, Explorer vs treeless Finder, IE/Firefox for Windows vs inextensible Safari/ugly misfit Firefox for Mac. I can even play any game I want without rebooting (rare)!

As for emacs, Mathematica, ssh, etc., where I spend much of my life, well... either works, so swapping is easy. Since anything build-y is the responsibility of a Linux box, I've not found much benefit to the Unix underpinnings of OS X, except that the heavy NT process means that occasional Cygwin scripting is slowwwwer.

Two biggest gripes:
- "Flip 3D" is truly awful. Just swallow your pride on this one, MS, and copy Expose - we progress because we embrace and build on others' good ideas. Yes, third party offerings exist.
- Windows 7 and my iMac seem to disagree on *something* to do with peripheral handling on wakeups and warm reboots: sometimes the display resolution is reset, and my USB keyboard/mouse will not respond. This problem seems unique to my iMac when running Windows 7.

I'm starting the process of trying to justify keeping the iMac once AppleCare reaches its last few months vs custom build. Win7 is stable, and fast, and intuitive, and allows me to never settle for second best (because the most feature-complete almost-anything is available for Windows).

As for any security argument - please! I run antivirus and take suitable care on Windows, which means I am reasonably protected from the random keylogger/data grabber. If someone wanted to specifically target me, I'd be no more protected on OS X than Windows: proof-of-concept exploits for OS X are easy to write, and those for long unpatched vulnerabilities (hey, Java) are available in the wild. If I was paranoid, I'd be running a transparent IDS box, not taking refuge in the fact that less effort has been put into studying OS X security than Windows security.

 

[LagunaSol]

That isn't dependent on the operating system people use. I've done my fair share of hand holding for Mac users. I wouldn't insult their intelligence either.

I agree 100%, which is why I never implied that either OS was for idiots, unlike the troll I was responding to.

Mathematics say (based on market share) that 90% of idiot computer users use Windows though.

 

[cumanzor]

You know what's interesting about it though? Apple doesn't need any level of UAC, as usual their way is simpler, much more secure and very efficient. Apple simply requires the user to type in their password before installing anything. Hmm, wonder why MS can't do that for Windows? As usual MS has to do it the complicated way and it still does nothing to increase security on Windows. What's the point of adjusting the setting in UAC, if you lower it, less chances for security, if you increase it, more chances for the end user to be annoyed by pop ups and still no better security. Windows FAIL.

It's fundamentally the same. What's the big difference between typing your password and clicking on "Allow". And it does increase the level of security. In XP everything ran as administrator (in default installations and in virtually every computer running XP). This was indeed a HUGE mistake that was carried from older versions of Windows and to preserve compatibility. This is the reason why XP is so prone to malware.

In Vista things are different. An application wont ever run with the highest privilege UNLESS the user allows it. I agree with many people though that on certain occasions it was very annoying (moving a simple file to the Program Files directory for example). In 7 UAC can be tweaked, but just the notifications. The lower level will only notify you of certain system changes (registry changes, software installation) while allowing automatically events triggered by the user (mouse or keyboard interaction, afaik). Higher levels will ask for confirmation of every single little **** which is quite annoying.

Your comment just represents a problem of misinformation, which is the biggest problem with MS right now.

 

[Maccin475]

I'd take a broad assumption they will launch new iMacs at that time. Probably an awfully incorrect assumption, but a hope nonetheless.

If I were a casual or low end computer user, I would desperately want a Mac to avoid all the time and fuss PCs create through myriad complexity with virus control and all the expensive and cheesy programs needed to purchase just to make the thing functional after purchase.

If I worked in a company with an expensive tech support crew, I wouldn't give a crap and get whatever I wanted for the job: someone else is paying and supporting all that crap.

If I was a gamer wasting my life trapped in non-productive play, I'd get a PC.

And that's probably how it all falls down in purchasing groups. People know what Apple offers, but the layman looks at price tag of the computer, not at the price tag of the final tally when the two platforms become even with protection and function. And even then, they don't see the time wasted enslaved to a PC as they try to figure it out--time better spent earning dough or being with family or enjoying life or using the computer as desired.

Clearly, posting on forums in much more productive isn't it?

 

[AidenShaw]

You know what's interesting about it though? Apple doesn't need any level of UAC, as usual their way is simpler, much more secure and very efficient. Apple simply requires the user to type in their password before installing anything.

So the Apple UAC asks for your password, and the Microsoft UAC asks you to click OK.

... and the difference is?

Two biggest gripes:
- "Flip 3D" is truly awful. Just swallow your pride on this one, MS, and copy Expose - we progress because we embrace and build on others' good ideas. Yes, third party offerings exist.

I thought it was the other way around - "Dock Expose" is a copy of Windows 7 "Aero Peek".

Agree though about Flip - since I got Aero Peek and jump lists I've almost never used Flip. I even find the occasional use for "Aero Shake".

- Windows 7 and my iMac seem to disagree on *something* to do with peripheral handling on wakeups and warm reboots: sometimes the display resolution is reset, and my USB keyboard/mouse will not respond. This problem seems unique to my iMac when running Windows 7.

Have you filed a bug report with Apple? It sounds like the boot camp drivers need work.

(FWIW, with real PCs I haven't seen this problem - so the suggestion to file a bug report with Apple is real.)

 

[Eidorian]

Mathematics say (based on market share) that 90% of idiot computer users use Windows though.

I can't argue with those numbers.

 

[inkswamp]

Did you also start wearing tight shirts and all star shoes and feel like a leftie hipster who thinks different? How Do those starbucks latte taste? Have you used the "iDelete" feature to increase your productibity?

What's with the flood of angry Windows guys on MR lately?

 

[soldierblue]

Odd, I don't see much commentary in this thread implying the stupidity of Windows users. Try browsing a Windows user-heavy forum and see what they say about Apple and Mac users - if you want a real show in denigration and verbal assault.

I am, in a sarcastic manner, mimicking the attitude that I see. See? You're already being accusatory of Windows users. Go find a Windows forum, do you see any, "OMFG APPLE SUCKS" threads? No? Ok. Just look in this thread.

Um...why?

See my above comment about typical Windows user commentary. If you're going to rate your self-image solely based on the attitudes of fellow customers who use the same products as you, you certainly wouldn't be happy as a Microsoft customer...or a Sony customer...or a Chevrolet customer...or a Pepsi customer...or a...

Look at the advertising, for one.

"Hey, you! You're a PC! You're a nerd in a suit. I'm a Mac! I'm a hipster douchebag that thinks he's better than you! I'm totally too cool for you."

The advertising has created an image of this company as a bunch of arrogant little hipsters that speak down to people who don't use their products as people who aren't "cool". Microsoft's advertising doesn't portray that, besides maybe... maybe "Laptop Hunters", which merely plays off Apple's advertising department. Sony's advertising doesn't portray that. Chevrolet's advertising doesn't portray that. Pepsi's advertising doesn't portray that.

It's the image Apple has chosen to paint of their user base.

Now, I have a question for you. This seems to be a popular one. What is the first work that comes into your mind when you think of a Zune user?

 

[Eidorian]

I am, in a sarcastic manner, mimicking the attitude that I see. See? You're already being accusatory of Windows users. Go find a Windows forum, do you see any, "OMFG APPLE SUCKS" threads? No? Ok. Just look in this thread.

You're reasonably new around here. There's always a witchunt going on here.

It's just worse recently. Remember to pay attention.

 

[Terminal.app]

Did you also start wearing tight shirts and all star shoes and feel like a leftie hipster who thinks different? How Do those starbucks latte taste? Have you used the "iDelete" feature to increase your productibity?

Don't troll.

So the Apple UAC asks for your password, and the Microsoft UAC asks you to click OK.

... and the difference is?

The "Installer requires that you type your password" in OS X that you are referring to is not "User Account Control." UNIX and Unix-like OS's require an admin password to install apps. Vista/Win7 UAC is not a true security feature because it doesn't require a password.

 

[rjohnstone]

migration costs could be $1,035 to $1,930 (£635 to £1,185) per user to move from Windows XP to Windows 7,


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558769/gartner-pushes-windows-upgrades

Those are costs associated with corporate migrations, not home user costs.

Quote with proper context next time. It can be misleading and cause others to get the wrong impression.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly in these cash-strapped times, Gartner urged companies to budget carefully. The analyst firm said that migration costs could be $1,035 to $1,930 (£635 to £1,185) per user to move from Windows XP to Windows 7, and $339 to $510 (£208 to £313) per user to move from Windows Vista to Windows 7, depending on how the migration is approached.

This is all dependent upon how old the hardware is.
If it's less than 2 years old, most companies will not bother with replacing the hardware.
Enterprise licenses for Windows are pretty cheap when you buy in bulk.

 

[AidenShaw]

Enterprise licenses for Windows are pretty cheap when you buy in bulk.

We buy them in the 1000-pack, and yes they're significantly cheaper than the per unit retail price.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

- "Flip 3D" is truly awful. Just swallow your pride on this one, MS, and copy Expose - we progress because we embrace and build on others' good ideas. Yes, third party offerings exist.

I dont really care for either. Both seem very inefficient.
MS should copy this if anything, imo. I dont need windows flying around my screen, i just need a simple list and preview.

 

[chevyorange]

I have both windows and mac computers. When I need to replace one I will buy another windows computer.

Until macs can play compressed video files properly I'm not buying another one.

I’m interested to know what you can’t run. The only thing I’ve found I can’t run is WMV DRM’d stuff... which I don’t particularly care to.

http://www.perian.org pretty much makes everything I’ve ever run into run seamlessly within Quicktime.

Sometimes I need to use VLC to run .mkv files.

 

[Jimmy James]

I assume you mean, of course, pirated video files.

Actually, no. Back on topic - it seems you agree with me.

 

[Veri]

Have you filed a bug report with Apple? It sounds like the boot camp drivers need work.

I was lazily waiting until Windows 7 had official support - so, yes, I guess I shouldn't complain . It's already annoying enough that Apple don't officially support 64-bit Windows (or OS X kernel) on the majority of their 64-bit products: did no-one tell Apple that 64-bit-wide data access and more registers mean more advantages to 64-bit code than just "can access more physical memory"? There's PAE if that's all you want. If Apple's 64-bit kernel isn't more efficient, they're doing it wrong.

On the other hand, MS are doing it wrong by having separate 32-bit/64-bit offerings, making it harder for the average user to transition to 64-bit. But I'll stop before I find an excuse to go on a rant about the lack of IPv6 adoption...

Vista/Win7 UAC is not a true security feature because it doesn't require a password.

"Requiring a password" mid-activity on a local workstation is not very secure: it's way too easy to trojan a password prompt (isn't this what everyone did at school on crappy Win3 networks?). Hey, Joe User, this page requires plug-in XYZ, just enter your password now to have it sent across the 'net.

The correct method is precisely what Windows (or, indeed, its conceptual daddy VMS) does, although the Windows version is very coarse-grained: you grant users particular capabilities, but the users must switch on those capabilities for the processes which need them and only while they need them. A fake "can I have permission to xyz?" request is thus innocuous: it grants precisely nothing and releases no information.

Incidentally, the traditional "normal user or root" Unix model is horribly primitive, and no end of vulnerabilities have come from failing at writing 100% bug-free code when needing to do one of a million things which require superuser privileges.

 

[RazHyena]

These threads about mac ads always yield the most fireworks.

 

[MrBrekke]

I agree 100%, which is why I never implied that either OS was for idiots, unlike the troll I was responding to.

Mathematics say (based on market share) that 90% of idiot computer users use Windows though.

I do agree to this Speaking from experience (Tier 2 IT Technician MS and Unix)


I find Win 7 and server 2008 R2 a perfect match.
I use Win 7 Ultimate (Full legal version provided by MS)
I enjoy my OS X and uses it as my primary OS.

 

[AidenShaw]

You are so full of hot air....

The "Installer requires that you type your password" in OS X that you are referring to is not "User Account Control." UNIX and Unix-like OS's require an admin password to install apps. Vista/Win7 UAC is not a true security feature because it doesn't require a password.

Why do you post without checking to see if there's any basis in truth to what you're typing?

Windows UAC is almost exactly like that of Apple OSX and other unix-like systems.

Q: What happens if a normal user tries something that needs privileges?

A: The screen darkens, a system modal dialog box appears, and she's asked to provide an administrator's password - JUST LIKE OSX/UNIX​

(see attachments)

Sheesh, the blind leading the blind....

 

[kdarling]

As a casual observer of the desktop wars, my only comment is:

It's interesting that Apple is proud and confident enough of the iPod and iPhone, that their ads don't compare themselves to anything else. They just talk about the Apple product.

But I don't recall seeing any "this is what you can do with a Mac" ads in a very long time. Instead, it seems that they are mostly about bashing Microsoft.

(That style of advertising must work, since Verizon is now doing a similar thing with their 'there's a map for that' ads bashing ATT.)

 

[Eidorian]

Why do you post without checking to see if there's any basis in truth to what you're typing?

Windows UAC is almost exactly like that of Apple OSX and other unix-like systems.

Q: What happens if a user tries something that needs privileges?

A: The screen darkens, a system modal dialog box appears, and she's asked to provide an administrator's password - JUST LIKE OSX/UNIX​

(see attachments)

Sheesh, the blind leading the blind....

Even with an account password will it still ask for the password in a UAC escalation prompt? I thought it was if you were a standard user and wanted to invoke admin it would throw in the password prompt and not for someone who is currently an admin. They'd just show you the buttons then and the option for more detail if you were an admin.

As a casual observer of the desktop wars, my only comment is:

It's interesting that Apple is proud and confident enough of the iPod and iPhone, that their ads don't compare themselves to anything else. They just talk about the Apple product.

But I don't recall seeing any "this is what you can do with a Mac" ads in a very long time. Instead, it seems that they are mostly about bashing Microsoft.

The Time Machine ad was the only one I remember. It's the best one since it shows off such a great feature of OS X.