Apple to Hire 4,000 Employees in Hyderabad, India to Work on Maps Development

[Gasu E.]

After many years, Siri still believes the closest ER to me is a veterinary hospital. If I ask it a different way, it responds with a historic mental health hospital that's now a museum. If another slightly different way, I get an Urgent Care a half our away. There are two actual emergency departments only miles from my home. .

Are you sure the nearer ones take your insurance?

 

[fedup flyer]

It takes 5 Indian programmers to do the work of one average US programmer.
Plus they only do what they are told and take zero initiative and blame others when their code doesn't work.

They screwed up Quicken Essentials for Mac, now I am wondering how they are going to screw up Apple Maps.

 

[Yendog]

i've never had a problem with apple maps really... but I also live in the bay area so i'm sure we are the first on the map (so to speak) It works just as well as google around here so i always use it... keep waiting for the equivalent to Street View to come to apple as i think that is genius and extremely useful. I know they've been driving around sure hope it comes this year. The 3d flyover view is a worthless "schtick" that i have never used once.

 

[CFreymarc]

While Apple Stores seem "original" they actually revived the classic haberdasher retail store model. That is: have high margin items for sale, have well educated staff, good service, be in a good location near other retail stores and host public events for self promotion. From that, you service is so outstanding, customers continue to return for product creating a following. Ironically, this is how the personal computer business started in the pre-IBM-PC era before PCs transformed into a retail commodity.

 

[konqueror4u]

It takes 5 Indian programmers to do the work of one average US programmer.
Plus they only do what they are told and take zero initiative and blame others when their code doesn't work.

They screwed up Quicken Essentials for Mac, now I am wondering how they are going to screw up Apple Maps.

Good Joke. Learn to appreciate people's hard work there are good and bad programmers every where. Indian programmers are cheap and good most of the time. If you are not able to hire a good programmer it is your problem.

 

[Thunderhawks]

It takes 5 Indian programmers to do the work of one average US programmer.
Plus they only do what they are told and take zero initiative and blame others when their code doesn't work.

They screwed up Quicken Essentials for Mac, now I am wondering how they are going to screw up Apple Maps.

But, they would probably be able to screw in a light bulb at the same time,
without calling for OSHA or a machine, read the labor manual if it is part of their job description and..........

Programming for Quicken would be an issue with INTUIT and it's supervision and briefing.

Garbage in = garbage out!

 

[CFreymarc]

It takes 5 Indian programmers to do the work of one average US programmer.
Plus they only do what they are told and take zero initiative and blame others when their code doesn't work.

They screwed up Quicken Essentials for Mac, now I am wondering how they are going to screw up Apple Maps.

I have seen this time and time again working with Indian guys. They do not owe up to their own mistakes and quickly blame others. Worst, they get into a victim mindset.

Worked with this one guy from India that was a "lump on a chair in a cube." The guy just kept on asking "What do I do next?" He never originated an idea, never corrected any of us even when an obvious error was made and was constantly apologetic for the most minor error.

His lack of initiative turned into a liability where a project was set back by a week. We ended up firing him where he lost his H-1B visa over the fiasco. After we dismissed him, he brought his wife and children in the lobby of the company pleading for his job back. They left after we started to call the local Sheriff to arrest them for Trespassing.

 

[konqueror4u]

Apparently it wouldn't be that much.

Motorola said that it only cost them $4 extra in labor and parts shipping to assemble the Moto X in Texas using American workers, vs doing it someplace outside the US.

The trouble was, they never had the necessary US sales to keep up their idea of fast customization to US customers.

Apple, on the other hand, consistently sells millions of iPhones to US customers, so a local factory could be a great job and PR asset.

"$4 extra" are you kidding? You can get labor in china for $1-$3 per hour so do you mean to say you can get labor in US for $5-$7 per hour?

 

[CFreymarc]

i've never had a problem with apple maps really... but I also live in the bay area so i'm sure we are the first on the map (so to speak) It works just as well as google around here so i always use it... keep waiting for the equivalent to Street View to come to apple as i think that is genius and extremely useful. I know they've been driving around sure hope it comes this year. T

I know for a fact that the California Bay Area from Monterrey to Mendocino was the top priority for Apple Maps. Nearly every Apple employee had their backyard to fix up and tweak to make it work. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple fly out these guys all over the world to update and fix the maps to the photos to a local survey.

 

[konqueror4u]

More jobs leaving the US. Let's raise corporate taxes, the minimum wage and salaries and OT pay. That'll make companies want to bring more work to the US!

It will help companies to outsource more jobs.

 

[CFreymarc]

Motorola said that it only cost them $4 extra in labor and parts shipping to assemble the Moto X in Texas using American workers, vs doing it someplace outside the US.

Cost is one thing. However many countries will flat out bribe an American corporation to have operations in their country. Ireland gave Intel a free run of the whole country to get a semiconductor fab operating within their borders. From that, jobs were created that they could tax along with an infusion of equipment and know how.
[doublepost=1463680119][/doublepost]

I wonder if 4000 Indian engineers will be able to compete with Google's AI

The current scene of AI is incredibly over hyped. While there is improvements in algorithms using large scale data, it is not real "intelligence" per definition of originating, counter-entropic ideas and concepts.

They are quite useful but more of a glorified, content condition driven, adaptive database.

 

[konqueror4u]

I have a Macbook pro, an iPad, an iPhone, a Mac Pro, and with this move, I'm not buying anymore. It was okay with Foxconn, companies have to do that to stay competitive, but Apple is comprised of a bunch of greedy tax dodgers who don't give a damn about our America. I'm done with the rotten Apple.

Every American company having global presence is doing the same dude. Apple is late into the game.

 

[CFreymarc]

One group that is scared to death of a Trump Presidency are outsource managers. They know as soon as the Donald is in the Oval Office the H-1B abusers are first to get the ax as they are mostly responsible for the high domestic unemployment rate. This "new normal" is a myth.

 

[Thunderhawks]

While Apple Stores seem "original" they actually revived the classic haberdasher retail store model. That is: have high margin items for sale, have well educated staff, good service, be in a good location near other retail stores and host public events for self promotion. From that, you service is so outstanding, customers continue to return for product creating a following. Ironically, this is how the personal computer business started in the pre-IBM-PC era before PCs transformed into a retail commodity.

Like Ms. Minnie's Haberdashery from the Hateful Eight, except there are way more haters on MR, than 8.

 

[whooleytoo]

$1 says they intended building this in Indiana; but Apple Maps............

 

[konqueror4u]

Let's even say:

Everything gets made in USA.

The people in importing, customs, logistics would all be out of a job.
Prices would be higher, so exporting becomes difficult and sometimes impossible.

All foreign corporations close their US factories and produce and sell their stuff only in their countries. (You do want all countries to take care of themselves)

The jobless rates in retail, warehousing, transporation would be astronomical and the recession would be so bad, that it would last for years.

"Making" things in USA these days either involves automation with machines, so not many workers needed
or whatever is done by hand is usually done by latinos incl. illegals we can't do without.
(BTW: I keep predicting that (not in my lifetime) USA will eventually be a dual language country and Spanish will take over. These people make child after child and in some areas you are already lost if you don't speak Spanglish)

Ask yourself why USA lost and is losing so many production jobs? It's not just lower wages.
The politicians and business taxation and structures are totally business unfriendly.

USA has the habit to chase you into the grave to get a cut of every dollar you make, even when you no longer live in this country.

Since everything is money driven, businesses make sure they only pay the minimum necessary for ANYTHING.

I do not go to any store and say, here is an extra dollar, I am glad it's made in USA. Pipe dream.

Trying to isolate USA from the world isn't going to work.

So, if you want to be objective, acknowledge that business is global.

If you can't do that ................

Spot on Sir. Completely Agree with you. This is something many people will not even try to understand.
[doublepost=1463680871][/doublepost]

One group that is scared to death of a Trump Presidency are outsource managers. They know as soon as the Donald is in the Oval Office the H-1B abusers are first to get the ax as they are mostly responsible for the high domestic unemployment rate. This "new normal" is a myth.

That will put an end to US exports as well. Unemployment rate will be higher than today. H1B helps US economy by ensuring that jobs stay in US. Rescission!! Not again.

 

[Thunderhawks]

One group that is scared to death of a Trump Presidency are outsource managers. They know as soon as the Donald is in the Oval Office the H-1B abusers are first to get the ax as they are mostly responsible for the high domestic unemployment rate. This "new normal" is a myth.

The amount of abusers is a minority, so go after a few with new laws?

I think there are more important things.
Never going to happen! Dream on.

While I am not for TRUMP, I wish he would get elected and run against all parties, incl. Republicans (He is kind of doing that now).

The political system is so encrusted with failure, will be interested to see what he can do for real.

Budgets are already spent up to 90 or more %, same old cuts: social security, education are available and yes
he will have to sell a tax increase once he says: I looked at the books and had no idea it was soooo bad.

USA voters will get what they deserve!

 

[DTphonehome]

India is poorer than China. It will be interesting to see how Apple products do in India.

I know. It won't have nearly the impact that China did on Apple's sales. China is not only wealthier, status is extremely important and luxury goods (including Apple's) are major sellers. Not the case in India.

 

[CFreymarc]

That will put an end to US exports as well. Unemployment rate will be higher than today. H1B helps US economy by ensuring that jobs stay in US. Rescission!! Not again.

We are talking competing economic models. This election will be all about globalism and loss of liberty vs. strengthening the country and keeping liberty.

As usual, the international bankers think they control the show by threatening loss of jobs and investment for keeping liberty. History has shown time and time again the international bankers lose when a technical innovation broadsides their rigged accounting. Even the UK knows the deal with their Brexit initiative going to vote soon.

This round of conflict, TAM (totally automated manufacturing) will make both foreign and domestic manufacturing obsolete with the exception of the most expert positions. Then the creativity, originality and free speech will be more valuable than any low overhead production plant.

 

[OldGuyTom]

It would be very, very interesting if we could see the distribution of income of a wealthy company like Apple amongst al its employees from the lowliest janitor up through the top, and including money to top fund managers. People frequently complain about the cost of labour being too high in the U.S. but how much money is being spent at the top?

An example: Carly Fiorina, the HP exec that was fired, often complained about the cost of the American workforce. She openly stated that Americans needed to stop demanding "high" pay and learn to compete with third world countries...as in start working for third world wages. Meanwhile, she was rewarding herself apparently on the order of about $10M (US) per year while sequentially destroying a company. In the end, she gets fired and walks away with a golden parachute that I think was $22M (US).

Fiorina, or "The Princess" as some HP employees called her sarcastically, is just an example of one executive at the top. US companies only need to report income for a few executives, but how many other higher tier executives are there and how much are they being paid that doesn't get reported? What percentage of total revenue is effectively going to a tiny percentage of executives that few know about. For example, is 1% of the total income from a company like Apple going to a handful of executives, or is it more like 30%? I have no idea, but I'm quite suspicious...and yet the outsourcing continues.

Wouldn't it be nice if all of us, like "Princess Carly" could get paid millions of dollars to botch a job? Most companies on Earth don't even make the amount of money she made for her golden parachute in a single year. Think about it. Just exactly where is all the money going?

 

[ericinboston]

...You realize that Apple has been working for years towards integrating AR into maps right?

You have no idea what kind of resources they need in order to pull this vision off...

Do you have an idea? I'll tell you this: there are plenty of non-4000-employee companies working on VR/augmented reality.

I don't have a crystal ball about what Apple is/wants to do with Maps...but my bet is that Apple wants to get it *somewhat* on par with Google and other Map apps that work quite well without all sorts of bells and whistles. Get the Map app to give accurate directions. alternate routes, etc...Map Basics 101. Then add augmented reality or whatever other features. Baby steps...baby steps. Maps has been a disaster since its release (almost 4 years ago on IOS).

Augmented Reality has been talked about and even showcased for several years now by various companies...where is it? I don't know. But what I do know is that it takes far, far less than 4000 employees to create a Maps app that is accurate and great to use. My math showcased this deduction...anything over 1000 employees is for making up for lost time. Even if Apple were to plop in Augmented Reality or some other earth-shattering cool feature, it would not take 3000+ employees to cover the AR portion.

I don't think folks realize how large a group of 1000+ employees working on a SINGLE product/service is. I've worked for companies that are 500+ larger, 1200+ large, 2000+ large, and now over 100,000 large. Trust me, it doesn't take 4000 for a single product.

My guess is all these employees in India are dirt cheap...and just the amount of headcount to do lots and lots and lots of manual data entry.

On a side note, I will add that I'm not impressed with Apple outsourcing/hiring 4000 non-USA employees when Apple should have employed them *somewhere* in the USA. I'm sure most USA States would have worked out a great deal (but not as great as India of course) with Apple to have 4000 people employed as well as a terrific brand/company name in their State. Are we now going to see a blurb on our iOS devices that says "Apple Maps designed in India?" Yea, I didn't think so.

 

[NT1440]

Do you have an idea? I'll tell you this: there are plenty of non-4000-employee companies working on VR/augmented reality.

I don't have a crystal ball about what Apple is/wants to do with Maps...but my bet is that Apple wants to get it *somewhat* on par with Google and other Map apps that work quite well without all sorts of bells and whistles. Get the Map app to give accurate directions. alternate routes, etc...Map Basics 101. Then add augmented reality or whatever other features. Baby steps...baby steps. Maps has been a disaster since its release (almost 4 years ago on IOS).

Augmented Reality has been talked about and even showcased for several years now by various companies...where is it? I don't know. But what I do know is that it takes far, far less than 4000 employees to create a Maps app that is accurate and great to use. My math showcased this deduction...anything over 1000 employees is for making up for lost time. Even if Apple were to plop in Augmented Reality or some other earth-shattering cool feature, it would not take 3000+ employees to cover the AR portion.

I don't think folks realize how large a group of 1000+ employees working on a SINGLE product/service is. I've worked for companies that are 500+ larger, 1200+ large, 2000+ large, and now over 100,000 large. Trust me, it doesn't take 4000 for a single product.

My guess is all these employees in India are dirt cheap...and just the amount of headcount to do lots and lots and lots of manual data entry.

On a side note, I will add that I'm not impressed with Apple outsourcing/hiring 4000 non-USA employees when Apple should have employed them *somewhere* in the USA. I'm sure most USA States would have worked out a great deal (but not as great as India of course) with Apple to have 4000 people employed as well as a terrific brand/company name in their State. Are we now going to see a blurb on our iOS devices that says "Apple Maps designed in India?" Yea, I didn't think so.

Do you have any evidence that these jobs aren't for projects specific to India?

 

[Versatile]

They're traitorous RATS and this jobs give away to foreign countries must END. Enough of this. God's sake, we'll all be flipping hamburgers. So if this work is labor intensive set it up in Sonora, CA., Labor rates are less than half of Silicon Valley and 4,000 Americans desperately in need of jobs will be working. Trump has to stop this ****. It's why we're electing him. The only things left in the U.S. from Apple in 10 years will be the G.D. cash registers to ring up their sales. All their jobs will have gone overseas. The damn Traitors! And that's what the are. Good Business decision? ********!

Stop foul crying, did you ever think of how much of money these companies are making overseas? These jobs are just tip of what they are making there. Except native Americans, every one else came from some where else and start complaining.

 

[konqueror4u]

We are talking competing economic models. This election will be all about globalism and loss of liberty vs. strengthening the country and keeping liberty.

As usual, the international bankers think they control the show by threatening loss of jobs and investment for keeping liberty. History has shown time and time again the international bankers lose when a technical innovation broadsides their rigged accounting. Even the UK knows the deal with their Brexit initiative going to vote soon.

This round of conflict, TAM (totally automated manufacturing) will make both foreign and domestic manufacturing obsolete with the exception of the most expert positions. Then the creativity, originality and free speech will be more valuable than any low overhead production plant.

No country can ignore globalism now. If you think globalism cannot strengthen the country you are wrong. With out globalism US will suffer a lot.

Read this
http://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/b...-wto-challenge-against-india-solar-incentives

US is trying to improve its exports using WTO which promotes globalism. Do you think US will ever try to stop it?

If US employs protectionist approach the same can be employed by other countries towards US. Do you know what is the impact of that for US companies and economy?

Do you think that global tech companies can ignore the business of more than 2.5 billion people?

[doublepost=1463687221][/doublepost]

Do you have an idea? I'll tell you this: there are plenty of non-4000-employee companies working on VR/augmented reality.

I don't have a crystal ball about what Apple is/wants to do with Maps...but my bet is that Apple wants to get it *somewhat* on par with Google and other Map apps that work quite well without all sorts of bells and whistles. Get the Map app to give accurate directions. alternate routes, etc...Map Basics 101. Then add augmented reality or whatever other features. Baby steps...baby steps. Maps has been a disaster since its release (almost 4 years ago on IOS).

Augmented Reality has been talked about and even showcased for several years now by various companies...where is it? I don't know. But what I do know is that it takes far, far less than 4000 employees to create a Maps app that is accurate and great to use. My math showcased this deduction...anything over 1000 employees is for making up for lost time. Even if Apple were to plop in Augmented Reality or some other earth-shattering cool feature, it would not take 3000+ employees to cover the AR portion.

I don't think folks realize how large a group of 1000+ employees working on a SINGLE product/service is. I've worked for companies that are 500+ larger, 1200+ large, 2000+ large, and now over 100,000 large. Trust me, it doesn't take 4000 for a single product.

My guess is all these employees in India are dirt cheap...and just the amount of headcount to do lots and lots and lots of manual data entry.

On a side note, I will add that I'm not impressed with Apple outsourcing/hiring 4000 non-USA employees when Apple should have employed them *somewhere* in the USA. I'm sure most USA States would have worked out a great deal (but not as great as India of course) with Apple to have 4000 people employed as well as a terrific brand/company name in their State. Are we now going to see a blurb on our iOS devices that says "Apple Maps designed in India?" Yea, I didn't think so.

Most of the google products are being developed in India from a long time now.

 

[TechGod]

How lame is that - By that token , every Indian or Chinese should stop buying Apple or Dell because they are based out of America and give a damn about their nation?
Your country is great today because it always believed in the power of keeping markets free.. It took the Chinese and Indians a century+ to realize that ..
I hope you do realize that your statement goes against the very principle of that!

I hope you also do realize that your economy cannot work in isolation - The world consumes your services and products (which obviously you do not have a problem with) and you consume services and products from other countries too (which inexplicably is not acceptable to you and reeks of treason!)

What if the Chinese and Indians decide to stop doing business with the US altogether?
Obviously it would hit them hard but would cripple the American economy too..

On a different note, I find it disturbing how ultra right nationalism is on the rise everywhere in the last decade or so - Whether it be India or elsewhere

Wait what?? China has been the one with strict market regulations. India has always been a mostly open market.
[doublepost=1463687434][/doublepost]

And the quality of the work is not the best. I have reviewed a lot of code written in Indian and not that impressed. Many projects for different companies had the same local function names and same variable names. All parties claimed it was their original work.

If you are looking for cutting edged, original development, never go cheap. If you have maintence code or clean up with a well walled description of work, then the cost savings may be worth it.

Then there is the lack of work ethic ...

Written in INDIAN? The disrespect in this thread is shocking.