Apple to Hire 4,000 Employees in Hyderabad, India to Work on Maps Development

[konqueror4u]

And the quality of the work is not the best. I have reviewed a lot of code written in Indian and not that impressed. Many projects for different companies had the same local function names and same variable names. All parties claimed it was their original work.

If you are looking for cutting edged, original development, never go cheap. If you have maintence code or clean up with a well walled description of work, then the cost savings may be worth it.

Then there is the lack of work ethic ...

You can always find faults in others work because it is easiest thing to do. I think it is all about hiring good engineers at low cost. I am sure you can find very good programmers at low cost in India. You cannot disrespect and show your hatred towards people. We should love people sir.

 

[kdarling]

"$4 extra" are you kidding? You can get labor in china for $1-$3 per hour so do you mean to say you can get labor in US for $5-$7 per hour?

You've confused wages with assembly cost per unit.

 

[konqueror4u]

You've confused wages with assembly cost per unit.

I can bet you can find tech worker for $10 per hour in India/China. I am sure we can never find a tech worker for $15 per hour here in US.

 

[abhi182]

You've confused wages with assembly cost per unit.

You are right, however, the $4 delta still doesnt add up
Assuming the difference between American and Chinese wages for a skilled factory worker is $50 K a year, a $4 delta implies ~7 man minutes to assemble one phone (@1800 man hours a year)- Does not seem quite right to me

I can bet you can find tech worker for $10 per hour in India/China. I am sure we can never find a tech worker for $15 per hour here in US.

Actually the labor rate arbitrage for blue collar work is even higher - A reasonably skilled tech worker (not engineer) would cost around $4 /hr in India

 

[VFC]

No, reality a fact and twisting things to ones viewpoint

Why only chastise Apple?
[doublepost=1463673895][/doublepost].......and get higher education, so you can apply for better paying jobs.

Anybody with half a drive and smarts can start in any factory at minimum wage and be the line leader, supervisor become a warehouse manager etc.etc. within a year or two.

Assuming they learn what is important. Wouldn't even have to be at the same company.

But , that would require hard work, extra hours and I do not see many people willing to do that.

They all want to be paid up front with an employer not knowing what they get in return.

That plan only works for 1-2% of the people. Assuming all in the US can afford it and achieve a higher level degree, there are only so many high-paying management jobs available in any one company. So no matter how hard you work, the odds are against the 98%. The problem for the 98% is the wages are low and getting lower.

The US needs a solution for the majority of people (say +60%), who like in the 1960's-1980's; with an average education level, and average work ethic, can earn a decent living wage.

When I started in the computer industry in the 70's, that was the case. People came into my engineering department, put in their 8 hrs per day and earned a very good wage. I worked a whole hour more, got promoted to manager and made even more. The other 30 engineers in my group were content with their wages; they teased me that the extra hour and aggravation that comes with a management position was not worth it.

 

[konqueror4u]

You are right, however, the $4 delta still doesnt add up
Assuming the difference between American and Chinese wages for a skilled factory worker is $50 K a year, a $4 delta implies ~7 man minutes to assemble one phone (@1800 man hours a year)- Does not seem quite right to me


Actually the labor rate arbitrage for blue collar work is even higher - A reasonably skilled tech worker (not engineer) would cost around $4 /hr in India

I agree but the cost difference of just $4 is not correct when we manufacture the same product is US. We can never get a tech worker for $15 in US. Minimum wage for a worker in some states is at $15 so where can you find a tech worker for $15 in US. Manufacturing in US will be very expensive and companies might end up loosing their global markets due to high manufacturing costs incurred by manufacturing here.

We can wish everything to be manufactured here in US but we also need to be understand global economics.

 

[VFC]

More jobs leaving the US. Let's raise corporate taxes, the minimum wage and salaries and OT pay. That'll make companies want to bring more work to the US!

The US could completely eliminate the Corporate tax, but that won't stop companies from outsourcing. They will take their tax break and search for the lowest labor cost possible.

What the US government could do is lower the Corporate tax significantly for companies that employee only US workers. They loose that tax break as soon as they offshore their first employee or use the H1-B visa program.

 

[abhi182]

The US needs a solution for the majority of people (say +60%), who like in the 1960's-1980's; with an average education level, and average work ethic, can earn a decent living wage.

To be honest, the credit for demonstrating the virtues of a free market and near perfect competition to the rest of the world goes to the USA..
It was this very principle that propelled your nation to where it is today.
While the rest of the world was busy planning siestas or chai breaks, the average American was slogging his a$$ off (early to mid 20th century perhaps?)

Complaining against it when it works against the interests of certain individuals who couldn't be bothered to put in an extra hour of work seems a bit hypocritical then, doesn't it?

 

[kdarling]

I can bet you can find tech worker for $10 per hour in India/China. I am sure we can never find a tech worker for $15 per hour here in US.

You are right, however, the $4 delta still doesnt add up...

Sigh. Sometimes I think I am the only person who ever does research before posting around here. I wrote from memory, but you can Google "moto x factory wages" yourself.

Flextronics hired a couple of thousand Moto X assemblers starting at $9 - $9.30 an hour, which was right at the living wage for a single adult in that part of Texas at the time. That's a major reason why they chose Texas, as have many other companies, including Apple.

(Engineering graduates in places like Austin are another good reason for other types of factories to locate in Texas. Not to mention tax incentives.)

 

[steve333]

This is good because we have 100% Employment here.
Oh wait.....

 

[konqueror4u]

Sigh. Sometimes I think I am the only person who ever does research before posting around here. I wrote from memory, but you can Google "moto x factory wages" yourself.

Flextronics hired a couple of thousand Moto X assemblers starting at $9 - $9.30 an hour, which was right at the living wage for a single adult in that part of Texas at the time. That's why they chose Texas, as have many other companies.

Please do not compare assembly with manufacturing and Moto X can never be a good example. Google/Motorola wanted Moto X to have a configurable/customizable exterior so they need to assemble it as per the colors/options chosen by the customer so it makes good sense to assemble the phone in US. Moto X is not completely manufactured in US

 

[VFC]

To be honest, the credit for demonstrating the virtues of a free market and near perfect competition to the rest of the world goes to the USA..
It was this very principle that propelled your nation to where it is today.
While the rest of the world was busy planning siestas or chai breaks, the average American was slogging his a$$ off (early to mid 20th century perhaps?)

Complaining against it when it works against the interests of certain individuals who couldn't be bothered to put in an extra hour of work seems a bit hypocritical then, doesn't it?

We (US) had a big advantage back then; infrastructure and education. The world has caught up, and in many countries, surpassed the US. That's why our politicians keep talking about investing in infrastructure (education is still too controversial). Maybe if we lower politician's salaries and benefits (or outsource their positions), that will get their attention to actually follow through on the infrastructure improvements.

 

[oliversl]

Too little too late. For years I wanted the features of Google Maps on Apple Maps, I can not add a business in a third world country on Apple Maps.

 

[kdarling]

Please do not compare assembly with manufacturing and Moto X can never be a good example. Google/Motorola wanted Moto X to have a configurable exterior so they need to assemble it as per the colors/options chosen by the customer so it makes good sense to assemble the phone in US. Moto X is not completely manufactured in US

Neither is the iPhone completely manufactured in China.

The iPhone is assembled by Foxconn in China.

The Moto X was assembled by Flextronics in Texas. (The Mac Pro is also assembled in Texas by Flextronics.)

The point, lest it get lost, is that NO it would not cost tons more for an iPhone assembled in the US, especially if it was for US consumption as I commented.

 

[konqueror4u]

Neither is the iPhone completely manufactured in China.

The iPhone is assembled by Foxconn in China.

The Moto X was assembled by Flextronics in Texas. (The Mac Pro is also assembled in Texas by Flextronics.)

Nexus is not manufactured/Assembled in US and it is a product of google(Moto parent company). If it is really profitable google would have assembled nexus in US.
Reality will be far from advertising sir.

Components of iphone are not from foxconn but they are sourced from china/Taiwan/Korea.

Mac pro is a dead product.

Read this
http://www.cnet.com/news/a-us-made-mac-pro-is-a-token-gesture/

FYI I recently changed damaged unibody macbook pro enclosure it cost me around $600 + tax and it is manufactured in China. Imagine the cost of replacing the same if the component is manufactured here in US.

 

[Jax44]

Not to mention the outright non existent help to catch terrorists. I understand their privacy stance, but there are certain circumstances in which they need to step up and give assistance. After that fiasco, I began moving away from Apple products.

Ha, good one there.

This has to do with hiring in India how?
[doublepost=1463691364][/doublepost]

In that case they should move their stupid UFO to the middle of the ocean where they can't take advantage of US infrastructure, fire and police departments, the electrical grid, and military protection.

They pay more US taxes than anyone, and the property taxes and wages spent locally add up to a sizable amount.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Nexus is not manufactured/Assembled in US and it is a product of google(Moto parent company). If it is really profitable google would have assembled nexus in US. Components of iphone are not from foxconn but they are sourced from china/Taiwan/Korea.

Mac pro is a dead product.

Read this
http://www.cnet.com/news/a-us-made-mac-pro-is-a-token-gesture/

FYI I recently changed the damaged unibody macbook pro enclosure it cost me around $600 + tax and it is manufactured in China. Imagine the cost of replacing the same if the component is manufactured here in US.

That article is from 2013 and the Mac Pro is still on Apple's website and store. Its hardly dead BUT it is definitely neglected and need of updating.

 

[konqueror4u]

That article is from 2013 and the Mac Pro is still on Apple's website and store. Its hardly dead BUT it is definitely neglected and need of updating.

Even ipod classic was there on apple website for a long time. Mac Pro sells only in US and forget about its sales numbers.

 

[abhi182]

I don't think folks realize how large a group of 1000+ employees working on a SINGLE product/service is. I've worked for companies that are 500+ larger, 1200+ large, 2000+ large, and now over 100,000 large. Trust me, it doesn't take 4000 for a single product.

My guess is all these employees in India are dirt cheap...and just the amount of headcount to do lots and lots and lots of manual data entry.

You are right in that 4000 is an incredulously large number of people to be working on a single product/project.
In all likelihood, a majority of these kids will be glorified data transformation/entry bots primarily working on scrubbing data.

What you are missing though is that like every other country, India offers a large range of manpower on the capability scale.
Like anywhere else, a skilled coder/tech expert will not take up a role like this even at a good wage
However the average Joe wouldn't mind taking it up esp since it involves working for a great brand (and probably perks like free coffee, a bunch of pool tables and breakfast)
And while they may be working for "dirt cheap" wages by the American baseline, the purchase power parity equation between the $ and the INR helps ensure that their basic cost of living is met (e.g rentals in Hyderabad are 1/5th of a tier II American city, say Tulsa) + they are left with a reasonable disposable income after covering for the basics

 

[Jax44]

SJ was always incredibly proud that all principle engineering took place in California. The only small exceptions were for companies that were acquired but left in place where they were founded. Tim is dismantling his legacy piece by piece. What's left of the company in ten years will be unrecognizeable other than the logo.

Nope

 

[kaneda]

Trump will not like this...

 

[CFreymarc]

I know. It won't have nearly the impact that China did on Apple's sales. China is not only wealthier, status is extremely important and luxury goods (including Apple's) are major sellers. Not the case in India.

My view of this deal is the lower end iPhone SE will go all over India and this team will do a lot of localized software for the iOS Indian build.
[doublepost=1463693660][/doublepost]

Trump will not like this...

The eventual meeting between Tim and The Donald is inevitable. Hope they sell tickets to it. Donald can make it in the WWE ring. Doubt if Tim could even climb in the ring on his own.

 

[konqueror4u]

My view of this deal is the lower end iPhone SE will go all over India and this team will do a lot of localized software for the iOS Indian build.
[doublepost=1463693660][/doublepost]
The eventual meeting between Tim and The Donald is inevitable. Hope they sell tickets to it. Donald can make it in the WWE ring. Doubt if Tim could even climb in the ring on his own.

Who ever wins nothing is going to change. What ever is happening now is here to stay. We can show our frustration in what ever way possible but at some point we need to understand the reality and learn to live with it.

 

[shansoft]

4000 Indians is also equivalent to about 3 Silicon Valley salaries.

And at the same time, the quality is dropping to the new low....

You just can't replace Engineers here without sacrificing significant quality of your product.

Not sure why Tim Cook decided to do this when Steve Job already doing the opposite.

 

[bladerunner2000]

Maybe they can "OUTSOURCE" those jobs to say... THE USA?!?!?

Maybe! But hey... Apple don't care!