Apple to Host 'Back to the Mac' Media Event on October 20th

[Durnaurion]

It is a perception issue, the fact that they focused on something else made it seem like they were abandonning the Mac. Marketing is all about perception and they failed to properly market the Mac there for a while, thus why everyone is claiming they lost focus.

There is no denying Apple has focused their marketing effort on iOS based devices in the last year.

I think that's were we differ. I don't think that less marketing should be translated to "neglecting" or "abandoning", because to me that would suggest that Apple stopped working on MacBook or iMacs.

I personally don't care if the product I'm using gets a lot of publicity as long as it gets updated fairly regularly and long term support is guaranteed

Are you doing this on purpose ? Proving my point while saying I and others are wrong ?

I think that remark was rude and uncalled for. You see, I could say the same thing, because that's what happens if the main point two people differ on are the implications of a certain term.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think that's were we differ. I don't think that less marketing should be translated to "neglecting" or "abandoning", because to me that would suggest that Apple stopped working on MacBook or iMacs.

But again, that's the perception they were giving people. Look, if all you talk about is your little girl this and little girl that and you give her gifts every week and suddenly, you stop talking about her to talk about your little boy and give her gifts only every months while your little boy gets the weekly stuff, she's going to feel neglected compared to your little boy.

You can scream all you want that that is just perception and you still love your little girl, the fact is you're giving her less attention.

I personally don't care if the product I'm using gets a lot of publicity as long as it gets updated fairly regularly and long term support is guaranteed

That's the point really. Look at the MBP update, supposedly their best selling Mac line that saw a 3 month late update compared to usual. And the update was silent and included a compromise (Core 2 Duo in the 13" to retain a proper IGP).

They did neglect the Mac, public

I think that remark was rude and uncalled for. You see, I could say the same thing, because that's what happens if the main point two people differ on are the implications of a certain term.

Then you say you lack understanding about what Marketing is all about ? Gotcha. Oh and there was nothing rude about calling it like it is. You keep saying "they didn't neglect it! It's just your perception!" while my point is exactly that : They failed to properly market their efforts and even admitted to switching ressources from OS X to iOS. From the biggest Apple apologist there is :

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/reading_between_the_iphone_os_4_lines

If John Gruber doesn't post stuff he's unsure about.

Look, you were wrong. You tried to defend Apple and failed. It's fine, they don't need you to defend them and if you really want to do that for a living, apply for their marketing department. Of course, make sure you understand the power of perception before you do.

Dude, I bike into London with it in my pack every day. Trust me. It's super portable.

So you're saying you couldn't bike into London with a 13" MBP in your pack every day ? That's not really proving anything about the MBA's portability...

 

[Žalgiris]

See KnightWRX is always right. People why are you evne trying to disagree with him, huh? Don't you see how smart he is? He has everything figured out.

 

[Durnaurion]

Look, if all you talk about is your little girl this and little girl that and you give her gifts every week and suddenly, you stop talking about her to talk about your little boy and give her gifts only every months while your little boy gets the weekly stuff, she's going to feel neglected compared to your little boy.

You can scream all you want that that is just perception and you still love your little girl, the fact is you're giving her less attention.

First off, I don't scream. Judging by the choice of words, it rather sounds like you are the one taking things on a personal level.
As for your argument: Well, the Mac isn't a little girl. It's a product. The Mac does not feel neglected because Steve didn't get up on a stage and promote software for it. "Neglecting" a product in my eyes means that you tell engineers not to work on it anymore. And I highly doubt that this is what really happened.
I think you made it pretty clear that your definition of neglecting a product means "not marketing". And while I completely understand that failing to promote a product might make people feel they don't work on it anymore, I still disagree on the fact that the amount of promotion you do is neccessarily an accurate representation of the actual work and effort you put into a product.

Oh and there was nothing rude about calling it like it is.

Oh, but there is. See, how true a statement is has nothing to do with how polite or rude you make that statement. Telling someone he is fat is rude no matter how overweight he is. Likewise, there is a difference between saying "But, that's excactly what I said. I don't get what you are trying to say" and "Are you doing this on purpose ? Proving my point while saying I and others are wrong ?" And there is a HUGE difference between saying "I disagree" and "You are wrong".

Look, you were wrong. You tried to defend Apple and failed. It's fine, they don't need you to defend them and if you really want to do that for a living, apply for their marketing department. Of course, make sure you understand the power of perception before you do.

Ahm, I don't try to "defend" a company. I just said that I didn't understand why people say that apple neglected the Mac, because I don't think they did. I think that it a pretty strange category to think in, but that's just me... The same is true for the "right" and "wrong" thing. Oh, and note: Not agreeing with you is not the same thing as not understanding the thing you talk about.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

See KnightWRX is always right. People why are you evne trying to disagree with him, huh? Don't you see how smart he is? He has everything figured out.

Your responses to people you don't agree with are always childish vs Knight who usually provides evidence and states an actual argument. Thats the difference.

 

[arcite]

See KnightWRX is always right. People why are you evne trying to disagree with him, huh? Don't you see how smart he is? He has everything figured out.

Yes yes I see what you mean. He does always think he's right.

 

[Flip2gig]

^^^ lol... I just want to see MBP's without all this graphics switching garbage. For some reason I don't see how having 3 graphic chips in a computer makes anything easier. Keep It Simple Stupid!

That along with HDMI out, USB 3.0, Blue-Ray support, cheap SSD... Yeah I know Apple "can't" do a lot of these things, but since when does the smugness of a company over-rule the desires of it's costumers? I guess that's what happens when you're a mnopoly.

 

[KnightWRX]

I just said that I didn't understand why people say that apple neglected the Mac, because I don't think they did.

Taps the URL you conveniently ignored :

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/reading_between_the_iphone_os_4_lines

Again, I think it's your perception of the situation that's too optimist. They stopped marketing it, they lengthened the time between updates, they didn't move to new industry standard that are getting deployed by their competitors. According to Gruber, they also took resources that were working on OS X to work on iOS 4.

And you really wonder why people feel they have been neglecting the Mac ? That's because they have been. They have deployed less efforts, even if you only want to agree about the marketing part, less effort = neglect.

Your responses to people you don't agree with are always childish vs Knight who usually provides evidence and states an actual argument. Thats the difference.

Do like I did, just ignore the guy. He never actually posts anything insightful, he just posts to threads to say that I am argumentative. It almost seems like he's in love with me or something.

 

[Manderby]

I was hoping for Suricat instead of Lion. Not really a cat, I know, but it would have been funny. I don't think, Lion will be the last X, although if they just rebrand the name, anything could be next. I don't think constellations are a good choice, way too abstract and with a touch of superstition (don't be offended). What about Scientists? Edison, Einstein, Gauss, ... Or Musicians? Mozart, Wagner, Beethoven, ... nah, too old. Cloud names... I don't know... Mac OS Cumulunimbus? What about Comic figures? Mac OS Asterix, Tintin, Dilbert, you name it.

 

[arcite]

Again, I think it's your perception of the situation that's too optimist. They stopped marketing it, they lengthened the time between updates, they didn't move to new industry standard that are getting deployed by their competitors. According to Gruber, they also took resources that were working on OS X to work on iOS 4.

And you really wonder why people feel they have been neglecting the Mac ? That's because they have been. They have deployed less efforts, even if you only want to agree about the marketing part, less effort = neglect.

Even if this has any truth to it, who really cares? Apple continues to make a very healthy profit margin on every unit. Apple will do what they have always done and release an update when they are ready, on their terms.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Taps the URL you conveniently ignored :

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/reading_between_the_iphone_os_4_lines

Again, I think it's your perception of the situation that's too optimist. They stopped marketing it, they lengthened the time between updates, they didn't move to new industry standard that are getting deployed by their competitors. According to Gruber, they also took resources that were working on OS X to work on iOS 4.

And you really wonder why people feel they have been neglecting the Mac ? That's because they have been. They have deployed less efforts, even if you only want to agree about the marketing part, less effort = neglect.



Do like I did, just ignore the guy. He never actually posts anything insightful, he just posts to threads to say that I am argumentative. It almost seems like he's in love with me or something.

I actually thought for a while he was LTD just on another screen name. Ive never seen him and LTD posting in the same convo.

 

[Durnaurion]

Taps the URL you conveniently ignored :

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/reading_between_the_iphone_os_4_lines

I didn't ignore this, I just felt more compelled to react to your rude way of arguing....

Again, I think it's your perception of the situation that's too optimist. They stopped marketing it, they lengthened the time between updates, they didn't move to new industry standard that are getting deployed by their competitors. According to Gruber, they also took resources that were working on OS X to work on iOS 4.

And I think your perception of the situation is too negative.
1. stoping marketing =/= neglect (in my opinion)
2. lengthening time between update: fairly hard to judge, since there is nothing like "standard upgrade period". There is an average product cycle, but it tends to vary a lot. In case of the MBP I think Apple was unsure how to set the two product lines of MB and MBP apart from each other and that a lot of time got wasted by trying to sort out all that chaos around what's pro and what's consumer and where and how to use the aluminum unibody.
3. not moving to industry standards: I don't think that the reason for not adopting USB 3.0, BlueRay or leaving a C2D in the 13" MBP is a result of a lack of resources. Off course, that's just an assumption, but unless you've been part of Apple's engineering team, you're fishing here as much as I do...
4. (temporarily) taking resources from OSX to finish a deadline for iOS is not what I consider neglect.

less effort = neglect.

I disagree again. Neglect is a pretty strong word that I would define as "leaving something unattended or undone through carelessness". See, I adjust my priorities regularly, sometimes daily as I'm sure, you do. But just because I decide to spend not 4 hours on a project as the day before, but just
3 or even 2, does not mean that I neglect that project, does it?

 

[KnightWRX]

Even if this has any truth to it, who really cares? Apple continues to make a very healthy profit margin on every unit. Apple will do what they have always done and release an update when they are ready, on their terms.

Who really cares ? Mac users care it seems. Profit margins ? Only shareholders care about that.

I didn't ignore this, I just felt more compelled to react to your rude way of arguing....

Maybe you should just grow thicker skin. I haven't been rude at all.

I disagree again. Neglect is a pretty strong word that I would define as "leaving something unattended or undone through carelessness".

You're arguing semantics. And they say I argue just to argue... Fine, we agree, just not on the choice of words. If you don't want to call it neglect, don't. But don't act surprised that some people do if you agree about the less effort.

Seriously, I'm done here. The point is proven, we agree on it, at this point, you just don't want to paint Apple in a negative light. "Apple does no wrong" I guess.

 

[Mal]

Who really cares ? Mac users care it seems. Profit margins ? Only shareholders care about that.

I'm not a shareholder, but I care. I care because Apple's profit margins allow them to continue investing a large amount of money into R&D, which is why we have the systems that we have now. I don't want Apple to sacrifice those because I want them to continue making good products that I like.

jW

 

[KnightWRX]

I'm not a shareholder, but I care. I care because Apple's profit margins allow them to continue investing a large amount of money into R&D, which is why we have the systems that we have now. I don't want Apple to sacrifice those because I want them to continue making good products that I like.

jW

Call me when they do reinvest into R&D. Right now, they are no where close to reinvesting as much as other, less profitable players do. They rake in the cash.

 

[Durnaurion]

Maybe you should just grow thicker skin. I haven't been rude at all.

Well, my skin is actually pretty thick. And I think I'm not the first one to point out to you, that your choice of words may not be vulgar, but can still offend people. That happens a lot if people stop talking about THEIR opinion on a certain MATTER and start to get personal. Good linguistic indicators for that are sentences that start with "You are..." instead of "I think..."

You're arguing semantics.

Off course I do! Semantic is the meaning of language! And since we are not bashing our heads in with clubs, what else is there to argue about?

you just don't want to paint Apple in a negative light. "Apple does no wrong" I guess.

Funny that you seem to think that you know what I want to do...

Btw: "doing wrong" is a pretty funny thing to say about a company. I would say a company "does wrong" by either making decisions that are economically damaging or illegal. Illegal is still pending, so I can't say too much about that *gg*, but I think it's safe to say that few of the recent choice Apple made were unprofitable.
Now, if you want to say "unethical", that's a whole different story....

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I'm not a shareholder, but I care. I care because Apple's profit margins allow them to continue investing a large amount of money into R&D, which is why we have the systems that we have now. I don't want Apple to sacrifice those because I want them to continue making good products that I like.

jW

So it doesn't bother you that Apple charges 2x what other manufacturers charge for the components? The only difference being the Aluminum case and OS?

 

[Mal]

So it doesn't bother you that Apple charges 2x what other manufacturers charge for the components? The only difference being the Aluminum case and OS?

Actually, it doesn't bother me that Apple charges what they do, because I don't blow things out of proportion. They don't charge 2x what other manufacturers charge, and I know somewhat what's involved engineering-wise in creating the products they do. That's not cheap, either in the custom parts (saying they use off-the-shelf components is really disingenuous, btw, when they fit them in custom-designed mobo's and cases), nor in the labor and machining costs.

Simply put, I reject your trolling and substitute reality.

jW

 

[Žalgiris]

Your responses to people you don't agree with are always childish vs Knight who usually provides evidence and states an actual argument. Thats the difference.

Dude, totally, you see it too. See ain't that bad to know that others are smarter every time. Just nature i guess, right?

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Actually, it doesn't bother me that Apple charges what they do, because I don't blow things out of proportion. They don't charge 2x what other manufacturers charge, and I know somewhat what's involved engineering-wise in creating the products they do. That's not cheap, either in the custom parts (saying they use off-the-shelf components is really disingenuous, btw, when they fit them in custom-designed mobo's and cases), nor in the labor and machining costs.

Simply put, I reject your trolling and substitute reality.

jW

Right I'm a troll. Keep trying.

 

[twoodcc]

finally! i can't wait for this. i sure hope its good! i predict they'll preview 10.7, and release new iLife and iWork. hopefully some new hardware as well

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

finally! i can't wait for this. i sure hope its good! i predict they'll preview 10.7, and release new iLife and iWork. hopefully some new hardware as well

New iWork would be great. I would love to see 10.7 include an updated release of SAMBA.

 

[lifeguard90]

Hardware updates, more so on the inside rather than the enclosure on the laptops is more likely to happen. Better high end gpu, maybe even 1GB vram. More BTO options! Lower prices. This onstage event needs to have a hardware focus along side 10.7, if not it will just be another event with focus heavily on software. yet again.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Actually, it doesn't bother me that Apple charges what they do, because I don't blow things out of proportion. They don't charge 2x what other manufacturers charge

They don't charge 2x as much, that's true. What they do is only offer you the options that result in higher cost. That still stinks.

The high end 27 inch iMac is a steal for what you are paying for. But what you are getting is an $800 computer with a $1400 monitor embedded in it.

Even assembling your own windows based computer, one would be hard pressed to match Apple's offerings. But buying something of separate components, one can see how many would not spend $1400 on a monitor when you can get decent (non-IPS, smaller size) models for 1/10 the cost, or darn good ones close in size and specs for 1/2 the cost.

The other example is the low end mac pro - again, priced very competitively when compared to PC manufacturers selling Xeons. But in reality, the performance of a single processor MacPro is met or exceeded at a lower price point with core i7 systems.

Simply put, I reject your trolling and substitute reality.

For me, the cold harsh reality is that Apple is just pricing me out of the machine that I need.

They have until the 20th to convince me personally they haven't abandoned my market segment. My company has already switched and saved thousands.

 

[3282868]

Maybe you should just grow thicker skin. I haven't been rude at all.

sorry but I have to chime in here. I've read many of your comments and have personally dealt with you and your attitude towards others on macrumors is essentially condescending, rude and inflammatory. So no, it's not about others needing to "grow thicker skin"(s), it's about certain individuals needing to grow up and learn respect and common decency. It's certainly nice hiding behind your computer and using the anonymity of the Internet to degrade others, yet something tells me without that luxury you wouldn't be so brazen.

Respect and decency, virtues you need to learn.