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Apple to Let EU iPhone Users Delete Safari and More Easily Transition to Android

boswald said:
At least here in America it's still the same ol' ecosystem we know and love.
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boswald said:
We DO have a choice. We can choose between Apple and Google (Android). Most people know what they're getting into when they buy an iPhone, and that's what draws them in to begin with. For example, I like how Apple's environment is set up: everything works together beautifully and the App Store is a one-stop-shop for apps, games, and whatever else. I also enjoy the centralized location(s) for music and TV. Some people see this as restrictive, but I prefer things this way.
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It's fascinating to watch... you are aware that no one will take that experience from you and you can stick with it but you can now extend the experience (if wanted and only then). But the you refuse that and claim that limited choice is better than more choice... 'because of a reason'... 🙄
 
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VisionRex said:
Get rid of Safari and transition to Android?

Why don’t you just buy an Android?
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This is the EU we are talking about (full, real, browsers possible, not just all re-skinned Webkit)

Being able to delete Safari may be desirable to eliminate any conflict or issue when using a different fully fledged alternate browser. I'd fall in that camp with FireFox for instance.

The "ease of moving to Android" thing is a distinct bullet point feature here.
 
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Everyone talking down to pro-ecosystem users really are talking about "choice" without seeing the bigger picture here. Devs want OUT of the ecosystem and make a new norm where everyone has their own stores on iOS/iPadOS and NOT on Apple's App Store. So allllllllll the users who WILLINGLY BUY INTO AND ENJOY the benefits of the closed ecosystem will suddenly get their entire digital livelihood broken up and fragmented into tons of other companies' accounts, stores, and payment methods, with reduced security, consistency, quality, and ease of use across the platform. WITHOUT the option to remain within Apple's ecosystem. Will it be an overnight change? Of course not. But is it the end goal of these developers who are tired of Apple's wildly successful system? You bet your ass. Look, all of this would be totally fine and a nothing burger if Apple's ecosystem would still be an OPTION with their apps. But that's not so. The moment you give these devs an inch they'll take as many miles as possible. So yeah, for the millions of us who again, WILLINGLY BUY INTO THIS ECOSYSTEM, we have every right to be turned off by all these moves by the EU and devs like Epic and Spotify. Consumer experience will only go DOWN in the name of pricing, because the choice of using Apple's ecosystem will be taken away.
 
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turbineseaplane said:
This is the EU we are talking about (full, real, browsers possible, not just all re-skinned Webkit)

Being able to delete Safari may be desirable to eliminate any conflict or issue when using a different fully fledged alternate browser. I'd fall in that camp with FireFox for instance.

The "ease of moving to Android" thing is a distinct bullet point feature here.
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The browser thing I’m not really concerned about because the EU did the same with Microsoft and their browser. So there’s precedent there.

I also think the moving to Android thing would be a benefit to anyone in the EU who wants to move on from Apple, and go root phones and install ROMs or launchers. I’m vehemently opposed to allowing people to do custom ROMs on iPhone.
 
coolfactor said:
Just some perspective.
  • Is WhatsApp open?
  • Is Signal open?
  • Is Skype open?
  • Is Telegram open?
  • Is Viber open?
  • Is Slack open?
What needs to happen is the entire messaging industry needs to design a low-level Message Interchange Format allowing messages to seamlessly and securely pass between these networks.

Then competition can be remain at the surface UX level. If an app doesn't support a particular feature or media type, it's just ignored on the receiving end, maybe with a placeholder indicating such.
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Yes and no at the same time.

None of these messengers are used to force "iPhone families to buy iPhone for their kids", that's why iMessage comes under scrutiny and these are not.
 
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Piggie said:
And that's the beauty of it.
There will be options if there is something specific you'd like, but also wish to stay with Apple for the 95% of the time.
But for those odd few things, or a very few folks who wish, there is an option without them needing to scrap everything Apple just for the 1 or 2 things they would like.
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turbineseaplane said:
People seem strangely averse to "options"
I really don't understand it - at all

Apparently going to the restaurant and being force fed from only the Appetizers menu is somehow desirable for all meals at all times.
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All these extra options are not "for free". Apple said there were 600 new APIs needed to enable additional marketplaces, and other features.

My iPhone carries that, even though I never ever would want the extra app stores. 600 APIs, at least ~5 critical bugs in there.

There's no free lunch here.
 
TMRJIJ said:
iOS will become a cesspool just like Android very soon if the EU keeps pushing. Can't wait to see Samsung's bloatware and the various garbage launchers.
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No idea what are you talking about. I've switched to Pixel and it's a very clean experience. I have sideloaded a couple of apps (which are not available on both Play Store and App Store); other than that, both Android and iOS are very similar, amount of garbage is essentially the same.
 
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.wojtek said:
It's fascinating to watch... you are aware that no one will take that experience from you and you can stick with it but you can now extend the experience (if wanted and only then). But the you refuse that and claim that limited choice is better than more choice... 'because of a reason'... 🙄
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Are you sure about that? What if a company (say Facebook or Zoom just as examples) decides to ONLY offer their app in their own (or a 3rd party) app store, then you're forced to either not use the app you've used for years or go down the path of sourcing apps from a variety of app stores that may or may not be as safe/privacy focused.

I get what you're saying, you're just thinking that developers will never shun the official App Store which I think isn't as much of a slam dunk as you think once the "cat is out of the bag".

If choice is truly the driver, there should be legislation included that also forces app developers to offer their apps via the Apple App store as well (at full feature parity up to what the official App Store T&Cs allows) or else face massive fines. That would then ensure that the current status quo that many Apple users enjoy remains undisturbed.
 
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NicosAccount said:
Man Im glad that the EU is fighting back against big tech in general and their monopolistic practices. Someone has to do it and it's not gonna be coming out of the US. Im sick of seeing the way private data is mishandled with no real consequences and how the makers of big platforms rule over everyone like digital lords. Before people start defending tech companies like if they had stockhold syndrom and telling everything "just dont buy it or just dont use it", the argument only holds in a market that has healthy competition, not in a quasi monopolistic one. "Oh you don't like Apple's pratices? Just get an Android (and get all your data exploited by Google)" Two choices isn't synonimous with a competitive market. Governement intervention is required and beneficial when markets fail, as they often do. As much as I love Apple products, Apple also needs to be challenged and held accountable.
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the market is competitive. Apple does not have 90% of total market sales.
 
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I got to admit, I'm a little envious now that EU users will get to modify more of iOS on their iPhones and show off while I'm stuck with the usual OS. Some of those features listed seem pretty good to me.

Atleast we still got a Sim Tray.
 
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jdphoto said:
Are you sure about that? What if a company (say Facebook or Zoom just as examples) decides to ONLY offer their app in their own (or a 3rd party) app store, then you're forced to either not use the app you've used for years or go down the path of sourcing apps from a variety of app stores that may or may not be as safe/privacy focused.

I get what you're saying, you're just thinking that developers will never shun the official App Store which I think isn't as much of a slam dunk as you think once the "cat is out of the bag".

If choice is truly the driver, there should be legislation included that also forces app developers to offer their apps via the Apple App store as well (at full feature parity up to what the official App Store T&Cs allows) or else face massive fines. That would then ensure that the current status quo that many Apple users enjoy remains undisturbed.
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Said apps exist on Google Play just fine, even though competing stores also exist, and sideloading on Android is a thing.

Nobody likes 30% tax; that's why services from these apps cost more when you subscribe via app instead of going to the website.

Other than that, it's fine. You won't notice a difference, except for the fact that your iPhone will become an actual computing device and not a pointless calculator.
 
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iObama said:
Praise the Universe for the EU. Long overdue.

edit: LOL all the angry votes!!! Keep defending those trillion dollar companies and their centibillionaire CEOs while you barely make a living wage ♥️
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I agree. I think we have to be weary lest EU go full anti-end to end encryption but Apple really brought all of this on themselves.
 
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Steve Jobs would pop a blood vessel over this if he were still alive. Then again he'd probably come up with a solution that capitalises on these new obligations.
 
coolfactor said:
The EU is making a mess of Apple's carefully-crafted ecosystem.

Consumers *always* had choice. If they didn't like Apple's model, they go buy an Android. That choice is not being fixed by this DMA. It's just trying to turn iOS into Android, and that should be illegal.
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I can install anything from anywhere on my macOS devices, yet I'm still part of the carefully-crafted ecosystem. Seems like there might be something else at play here. *cough*MONEY*cough*
 
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JonathanX64 said:
Said apps exist on Google Play just fine, even though competing stores also exist, and sideloading on Android is a thing.

Nobody likes 30% tax; that's why services from these apps cost more when you subscribe via app instead of going to the website.

Other than that, it's fine. You won't notice a difference, except for the fact that your iPhone will become an actual computing device and not a pointless calculator.
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Again, I think folks thinking things won't change now that Apple offers the option are being optimistic. As has been shown before, Apple doing something has ripples throughout the industry (eg. removing the headphone jack, etc.). Companies may be more emboldened now that both platforms allow them to not use the "official" store. I hope I'm wrong, but this greatly increases the chances things will change for the worse.

I've never spent more than I think $10 (total) in the App Store over the past decade+. Nor do I have external subscriptions to Spotify/Netflix/etc. (use Apple Music/don't want much TV/Movies). The 15% or 30% cut (which I think is reasonable especially compared to the 70-80% cut that stores took on software back in the day) never directly impacted me. Folks who paid the higher amount when purchasing it through the App Store vs. direct paid the extra for the ability to have the subscription managed centrally which one could argue is worth the surcharge (apparently it was for folks that decided to do it that way). For what it is worth, I'm glad Apple has been pushed to allow developers to steer the folks who are less tech/Internet savvy toward direct subscriptions so that they know that's an option and can then choose between central subscription management and a lower price.

My iPhone has been incredibly useful to me in a wide variety of ways, the way it has been for the last decade+, these changes only have the potential to make it less useful to me by making me jump through extra hoops to get what I want. If all you can do with your iPhone at present is use a calculator that sounds more like a you problem than an iPhone problem.
 
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hagar said:
A closed ecosystem. Where you have no choice. It’s so weird that people in the US are so against freedom and choice nowadays. People in the EU are still enjoying the EXACT same ecosystem as before. But have the bonus of more options, which they can ignore.
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Yes, I just wish our government was fighting on behalf of a company with over $14 billion in annual revenue like those brave EU bureaucrats!
 
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