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Next they'll be saying that the 1905 precedent should allow for involuntary sterilization of women!

But it’s okay if it’s the very old 1791 second amendment, written in the era of muskets, that Americans so dearly cling to. Nobody dare touch that! 😉
 
But it’s okay if it’s the very old 1791 second amendment, written in the era of muskets, that Americans so dearly cling to. Nobody dare touch that! 😉
First, it is part of the Bill of Rights that were written to protect the individual. It's not just some random law or worse, mandate set my some unelected official. Second, I wasn't commenting on the age of the precedent, just that evil can spawn when people ignore the rights of individuals. It's the type of thing that can happen even when people say, "that will never happen". You know like just this past year when officials themselves said they did not have the legal authority to mandate vaccination, yet here we are on the precipice of it. Third, if you don't like the 2A, then change it. There are mechanisms.
 
Next they'll be saying that the 1905 precedent should allow for involuntary sterilization of women!
What a stretch.
Those that don't want to get vaccinated jump through all kinds of mental hoops about experimental vaccines.and no data.

When they come down with Covid they are willing to try anti parasitics, anti malaria, and a host of other unproven and ineffective treatment.

All they need do to reduce the chance of death to almost 0 is get vaccinated.

The same people that claim personal choice but don't want to pay for the increased medical risk of their choice.

But the same people that talk personal freedom more than likely support the Texas Anti Abortion law that is prima-facia unconstitutional.

SMFH.....
 
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Help me out then. Explain asymptomatic spread. Explain Israel. Explain Uttar Pradesh.
Stop demonizing everyone. Encourage people to get the shot to protect themselves. Most are not bad people.
Explain what? Israel is only 61% vaccinated. Getting vaccinated helps you and it helps everyone else.
 
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I know what it means, but by yours and eatrains' logic, Israel should not be happening.
Wasn't sure.
I have not been paying attention to Israel. Quick explanation? I assume the rise when the brakes are let off too early and not treat this as a world issue and a lesson that we should not be insular in dealing with R. Imagine no vaccination there.
I look at the UK figures, the vax is doing good work (latest .8% vs 37% vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the figures though they are deeper than that). ONS does good work there and their info is up front. However we have a Boris. Still need good policy to lift the pressure from the health services. Ours are creaking already coming into winter.
 
Wasn't sure.
I have not been paying attention to Israel. Quick explanation? I assume the rise when the brakes are let off too early and not treat this as a world issue and a lesson that we should not be insular in dealing with R. Imagine no vaccination there.
I look at the UK figures, the vax is doing good work (latest .8% vs 37% vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the figures though they are deeper than that). ONS does good work there and their info is up front. However we have a Boris. Still need good policy to lift the pressure from the health services. Ours are creaking already coming into winter.
I guess it is that I have a problem with people attacking other people. I just don't think it is a constructive way to accomplish a goal to get people to take the shot. The shots ARE very effective at preventing major illness. They are NOT assurances that you will stop spreading the virus. We are pretending that this thing will not be endemic and instead are putting our focus on pitting citizens against each other as if that will turn out well. I compare/contrast Israel and Uttar Pradesh because the former was the fastest (early on at least and with boosters) to inoculate their population, while the latter focused on treating those that contracted - who is doing better? (it CAN be debated and we CAN learn something from it) Where is our focus in the US? It is 100% shot or nothing. There is no middle ground. You are not even allowed to talk about potential therapeutics. The worst part for me is that our leadership is encouraging this and therefore, people are empowered to attack their fellow citizens. It is disgusting and IT HAS TO STOP.

BTW, I appreciate the wealth of information and data coming out of the UK. I feel like there is an effort to communicate and demonstrate this to the people to influence policy and decisions. Here in the US we just get generalities and platitudes ("what we are seeing...") from our "leadership" in the scientific community. It is sad as we go on almost 2 years in that we are relegated to "well we just don't know..." and default to the zero risk strategy. People don't respond to that.
 
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It really shocks me how some people are telling the unvaccinated they should just not be able to get food, go to the hospital, etc. Especially knowing that I'm 101 lbs at 5'4 and can't get the vaccine due to ongoing health issues that have nothing to do with Covid-19.
 
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The cold and the flu are much less dangerous than covid and don't overflow the healthcare system. And don't you think maybe the cold and flu weren't as bad because everyone was wearing masks and keeping their distance and staying home? And of course you think covid is a scam crafted by hospitals...
Exactly how do you know precisely what I think? Flippant remarks like that don't serve any constructive purpose.
Covid def isn't a scam but it's been an over-hyped crisis that I believe has been grossly mismanaged creating a very easy opportunity to commit VERY LUCRATIVE medical fraud.... one of the greatest medical financial frauds probably in American history. Hint: look into correlation between major pandemics and US Federal election cycles...you might be surprised at the implications

Can I agree that all the extra hygiene & sanitary protocols have likely helped reduce the cold and flu cases? Yes... and perhaps dramatically. I saw Israel has invented an anti bacterial mask with embedded zin nano particles that has been shown to cause a DRAMATIC reduction in microbes to the point where widespread use would itself practically squelch this whole pandemic and make a huge dent in seasonal airborne sickness. Even better, it empowers people with a tool to take effective, personal, pro-active steps to protect their own health irrespective of what others do/don't do. Life is a constant risk... if it just becomes WAY too much for someone to handle they need to see a psychiatrist and/or stay at home.
 
It really shocks me how some people are telling the unvaccinated they should just not be able to get food, go to the hospital, etc. Especially knowing that I'm 101 lbs at 5'4 and can't get the vaccine due to ongoing health issues that have nothing to do with Covid-19.
Let me encourage you to absolutely do what you feel you need to do/don't do to preserve your own health. Do not ever be peer pressured into a potentially risky decision that you're not 110% comfortable with! I'm not aware the vaccine manufacturers have ANY liability WHATSOEVER for adverse side effects, or worse, if you are so unlucky.
 
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It really shocks me how some people are telling the unvaccinated they should just not be able to get food, go to the hospital, etc. Especially knowing that I'm 101 lbs at 5'4 and can't get the vaccine due to ongoing health issues that have nothing to do with Covid-19.
If that is actually the case, then your doctor will be able to give you a medical reason for not being vaccinated.

I'm highly skeptical since I know people that have lupus, recent cancer survivors and a transplant patient that are all vaccinated.

The guidance is currently that the FDA approved vaccine is safe for all over 12 and the list of reasons for not being vaccinated is pretty short.
1. Recent infection
2. Recent covid infection
3. 90 day wait after monoclonal anti bodies
4. Not much else

But for those with a legitimate health reason it doesn't apply. But if you can get vaccinated and you don't then you should be last behind those that got vaccinated when you show up to a hospital with covid.

The beds should be reserved for those that didn't make the personal choice to not get vaccinated. If you want autonomy, fine. Own it AND the consequences.
 
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[...]
Covid def isn't a scam but it's been an over-hyped crisis
No it hasn't been over-hyped.
that I believe has been grossly mismanaged creating a very easy opportunity to commit VERY LUCRATIVE medical fraud...
Clearly there are those who seek to take advantage of others mis-fortunes and scam as much as they can.
. one of the greatest medical financial frauds probably in American history.
Don't know if it's the "greatest" fraud.
[...] Life is a constant risk... if it just becomes WAY too much for someone to handle they need to see a psychiatrist and/or stay at home.
Yep, being born means you're gonna die some day. It's not the bullet with my name on it that I'm concerned about, it's the bullet addressed to "whom it may concern".
[...] I'm not aware the vaccine manufacturers have ANY liability WHATSOEVER for adverse side effects, or worse, if you are so unlucky.
While I don't support many government decisions, the above was absolutely needed and a smart move.
 
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So, this whole health department and FDA.. is a joke?



I would rather people live a long healthier life then worrying about if it’s approved or not.
You get 99.99% of folks recover and live a long life with out this vax
 
Time has already told. The science is settled. Just admit that you're more scared of a shot than is a toddler who needs his lollipop. Choosing not to get vaccinated is simply selfishness.
Time so we have had the vax for 5+ years ? you get its still in phase 3 for 2 of the vax's and phase 4 for the pfizer. They do not have anything to show long term.

Oh and lets not forget all the heart issues that are coming out now.

Just admit you are a sheep and want everyone to do as you did so you feel better.
 
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If that is actually the case, then your doctor will be able to give you a medical reason for not being vaccinated.

I'm highly skeptical since I know people that have lupus, recent cancer survivors and a transplant patient that are all vaccinated.

The guidance is currently that the FDA approved vaccine is safe for all over 12 and the list of reasons for not being vaccinated is pretty short.
1. Recent infection
2. Recent covid infection
3. 90 day wait after monoclonal anti bodies
4. Not much else

Bit for those with a legitimate health reason it doesn't apply. But if you can get vaccinated and you don't then you should be last behind those that got vaccinated when you show up to a hospital with covid.

The beds should be reserved for those that didn't make the personal choice to not get vaccinated. If you want autonomy, fine. Own it AND the consequences.
Ok so lets also put over weight folks, folks that smoke, folks that get hurt driving to fast the list goes on behind folks like you who seem to think your a hero for taking a shot for a virus that unless your high risk has a 99.999% recovery
 
Exactly how do you know precisely what I think? Flippant remarks like that don't serve any constructive purpose.
Covid def isn't a scam but it's been an over-hyped crisis that I believe has been grossly mismanaged creating a very easy opportunity to commit VERY LUCRATIVE medical fraud.... one of the greatest medical financial frauds probably in American history. Hint: look into correlation between major pandemics and US Federal election cycles...you might be surprised at the implications

Can I agree that all the extra hygiene & sanitary protocols have likely helped reduce the cold and flu cases? Yes... and perhaps dramatically. I saw Israel has invented an anti bacterial mask with embedded zin nano particles that has been shown to cause a DRAMATIC reduction in microbes to the point where widespread use would itself practically squelch this whole pandemic and make a huge dent in seasonal airborne sickness. Even better, it empowers people with a tool to take effective, personal, pro-active steps to protect their own health irrespective of what others do/don't do. Life is a constant risk... if it just becomes WAY too much for someone to handle they need to see a psychiatrist and/or stay at home.
So it's def not a scam but it's also one of the greatest medical financial frauds in American history. Oh and it's also a conspiracy intended to get Joe Biden elected, got it.
 
not according to the CDC
"fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons"

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
 
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No it hasn't been over-hyped.

Clearly there are those who seek to take advantage of others mis-fortunes and scam as much as they can.

Don't know if it's the "greatest" fraud.

Yep, being born means you're gonna die some day. It's not the bullet with my name on it that I'm concerned about, it's the bullet addressed to "whom it may concern".

While I don't support many government decisions, the above was absolutely needed and a smart move.
Sure. It's all good for everybody else until the unintended consequences start having REAL, negative manifestations in YOUR life, job, family, finances etc. which it actually already has if you could see it. Maybe you do. I think in time, as this continues to play out it will be harder to deny what a monumental breech of public trust this situation has been. The long term political effects of this will likely, seriously change the way future generations view the world and relate to central governments. In that sense I would definitely say it's way more a game changer than we could possibly imagine merely from this point in time.
 
Sure. It's all good for everybody else until the unintended consequences start having REAL, negative manifestations in YOUR life, job, family, finances etc. which it actually already has if you could see it.
For example, I catch covid-19 and die?
Maybe you do. I think in time, as this continues to play out it will be harder to deny what a monumental breech of public trust this situation has been. The long term political effects of this will likely, seriously change the way future generations view the world and relate to central governments. In that sense I would definitely say it's way more a game changer than we could possibly imagine merely from this point in time.
It's a game changer due to the way it changed our lives. Sure there were changes on other levels and hopefully we learned something from it. The breach of trust, imo, came squarely from China.
 
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So it's def not a scam but it's also one of the greatest medical financial frauds in American history. Oh and it's also a conspiracy intended to get Joe Biden elected, got it.
It's not a scam in the sense that the virus itself is actually real ....
Just forget this last election and covid 19. You'll see a pattern there if you want to. Is it a conspiracy? I'm not sure but patterns are places to start looking.
Conspiracy has become an interesting term to use. Mainly as a way to short-circuit honest debate by insinuating that someone is a mental kook.
Do you think that America was established via conspiracy?
Would you say that Congress conspires when they allow insider trading for themselves but criminalize it for everyone else?
Are there still honest and ethical ways to invoke the term "conspiracy" or "conspiracy theory" even though it has been been weaponized to belittle people searching for truth?

Last but not least, stay well and have a nice day!!
 
For example, I catch covid-19 and die?
that's probably the least example because your suffering would be limited
It's a game changer due to the way it changed our lives. Sure there were changes on other levels and hopefully we learned something from it. The breach of trust, imo, came squarely from China.
time will tell. It would be very convenient if there was just one bad actor involved but somehow that seems way too simple especially how it's been politicized so much globally. It's a huge mess and frankly it stinks to high heaven.
 
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Go back and to clips of prominent members of the left showing apprehension to taking it. Harris has a few sound clips. Something about the Trump vaccine. Now that the parties have switched power they sing it’s praises. So if anyone made it political it was the Democrats. The majority of Republicans support the vaccine as well. Their issue are the mandates.

I often muse to myself if Trump had won would the Democrats be antivax?

Btw, im neither. Elements in both parties have gotten way too extreme. Making the vax a political issue and dividing us further is the height of lunacy.
Yes, the clip from Harris has been replayed endlessly on right wing media, without context. Her point was that she'd be eager to take the vaccine if it was recommended by medical experts, but if it was only pushed by Trump, then no. Remember, he was the guy suggesting injecting light or bleach, and pushing hydroxychloroquine. A whole lot of false equivalency going on there - Trump made everything political, including the virus, masks, and the vaccine. And no, if Trump had won, and the vaccines were approved and recommended by medical experts, the Democrats would be lining up to take them regardless of what Trump was saying. It's a matter of believing in science, rather than superstition and dogma.
 
It's not a scam in the sense that the virus itself is actually real ....
Just forget this last election and covid 19. You'll see a pattern there if you want to. Is it a conspiracy? I'm not sure but patterns are places to start looking.
Conspiracy has become an interesting term to use. Mainly as a way to short-circuit honest debate by insinuating that someone is a mental kook.
Do you think that America was established via conspiracy?
Would you say that Congress conspires when they allow insider trading for themselves but criminalize it for everyone else?
Are there still honest and ethical ways to invoke the term "conspiracy" or "conspiracy theory" even though it has been been weaponized to belittle people searching for truth?

Last but not least, stay well and have a nice day!!
What people call conspiracy is usually in fact is indirect management.
You see most people understand management only when it is direct like when general gives an order to a soldier. They don’t know that certain processes indirectly can influence another processes in order to achieve the desired outcome.
For example there’s many ways to indirectly reduce global consumption.
 
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