Exactly my thougts. And if the first company has a big success selling the iPhone, others will follow. I guess in a short time other phone brands will use the extra new features the AT&T network offers, which means that the european networks have to be ready for these phones too, or they will miss the new generation of phones. Just my 2 eurocents.
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Apple Unable to Find iPhone Partner in Europe?
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Dr.Gargoyle
macrumors 65816
Unlocked iPhone is the right way to go
I have owned >10 mobile phones in Europe (Finland) and have never had a (operator) locked phone. I will not give up my freedom of selecting whatever phone or operator I want to, as often I want to, in the future by locking myself into operator contract.
If the iPhone will be sold without operator contract, I will buy it, as long as it costs < 1000 USD.
I have owned >10 mobile phones in Europe (Finland) and have never had a (operator) locked phone. I will not give up my freedom of selecting whatever phone or operator I want to, as often I want to, in the future by locking myself into operator contract.
If the iPhone will be sold without operator contract, I will buy it, as long as it costs < 1000 USD.
Masquerade
macrumors 6502a
The european carriers are persuading her clients since years now to buy 3g mobiles phones... most of 2g phones are at 50euro price.. so, what's the reason that people should downgrade his mobile phone... for an ipod with internet? we already got ipods, gps and we like to camping at the weekends instead of toying internet in the streets.. 😎
Selling locked iPhone in Finland is illegal
One interesting note is that, operator contracts are illegal in Finland for other than 3G phones. So either Apple will not sell iPhone in Finland at all 😡 , or they will sell it unlocked 🙂 , or include 3G.
One interesting note is that, operator contracts are illegal in Finland for other than 3G phones. So either Apple will not sell iPhone in Finland at all 😡 , or they will sell it unlocked 🙂 , or include 3G.
I fear that interest will drop when people realise the limitations of the iPhone - such as lack of 3G and MMS - and its price compared to better specced products from, say, Sony Ericsson
emotion
macrumors 68040
Does it really lack MMS? (Edit: Apparently so, I'd missed that. May as well not have that camera then).
What use is a plastic lensed 2MP camera if you can't send MMS? It's certainly not on there to replace a real camera.
No excitement here.
I am afraid tghat Apple will find out the hard way. At the moment there is no hype or advertising of the iPhone in Great Britain and people are not really excited or interested in it. It is the same with the Treo, only one carrier even sells the Treo in GB yet in the US it is a popular choice.
We only have 4 GSM carriers in the UK and I think it is unlikely that any of them are going to agree to Apples terms to share revenue. And if they hold out very soon there are going to be other manufacturers who will offer compettitor phones to the iPhone and the chance will have gone to dominate.
Personally, I don't see how to use this phone with one hand, and so I think it will flop in it's current form factor.
I am afraid tghat Apple will find out the hard way. At the moment there is no hype or advertising of the iPhone in Great Britain and people are not really excited or interested in it. It is the same with the Treo, only one carrier even sells the Treo in GB yet in the US it is a popular choice.
We only have 4 GSM carriers in the UK and I think it is unlikely that any of them are going to agree to Apples terms to share revenue. And if they hold out very soon there are going to be other manufacturers who will offer compettitor phones to the iPhone and the chance will have gone to dominate.
Personally, I don't see how to use this phone with one hand, and so I think it will flop in it's current form factor.
You'd use it the same way you would an ipod or any other phone with one hand. It's the "having to look at the screen aspect" that worries people, not the one-hand operation.
Capital of Europe?!?
Comparing Brussels to Washington displays a wikipedian grasp of the geo-polical landscape.
The EU is neither a country nor a continent. The EU has it's headquarters in Brussel's, yes. But it is not a "capital" in any common sense of the word.
NATO, of which the US is a member, is also headquartered in Brussels. Is Brussels thereby the capital of the "western world"?
Back on topic: The EU has endeavored to normalize a number of economic and social conditions in member nations. It has made trade and travel more convenient and has created a currency that is competitive on international markets. It has, however, not obliterated the very real autonomy of the member nation-states. They have different markets.
From reading this thread: There are a handful of "european" providers of service, there are more than a handful of local providers, there is a great range of services offered.
Apple is aggressive in protecting their brand. Part of that protection involves guaranteeing a caliber of service. Apple invests heavily in the design of the software and hardware of their products. Regardless if their products use common protocols and standards, Apple has proven able at presenting them in novel and appealing ways. Apple believes they should be compensated for this with premium pricing. They've been rewarded in the past.
Apple, if we're to believe the story, has not been able to come to terms with any European providers. They want cell phone providers to compensate them for what they believe will be a significant increase in customers due to the appeal of their product. It may not be an unreasonable request - but it is an untested one.
Somebody will flinch in these negotiations.
Comparing Brussels to Washington displays a wikipedian grasp of the geo-polical landscape.
The EU is neither a country nor a continent. The EU has it's headquarters in Brussel's, yes. But it is not a "capital" in any common sense of the word.
NATO, of which the US is a member, is also headquartered in Brussels. Is Brussels thereby the capital of the "western world"?
Back on topic: The EU has endeavored to normalize a number of economic and social conditions in member nations. It has made trade and travel more convenient and has created a currency that is competitive on international markets. It has, however, not obliterated the very real autonomy of the member nation-states. They have different markets.
From reading this thread: There are a handful of "european" providers of service, there are more than a handful of local providers, there is a great range of services offered.
Apple is aggressive in protecting their brand. Part of that protection involves guaranteeing a caliber of service. Apple invests heavily in the design of the software and hardware of their products. Regardless if their products use common protocols and standards, Apple has proven able at presenting them in novel and appealing ways. Apple believes they should be compensated for this with premium pricing. They've been rewarded in the past.
Apple, if we're to believe the story, has not been able to come to terms with any European providers. They want cell phone providers to compensate them for what they believe will be a significant increase in customers due to the appeal of their product. It may not be an unreasonable request - but it is an untested one.
Somebody will flinch in these negotiations.
Sometimes I wonder where these analysts get their 'stories'.
I predicted Orange would be front runner the day the iPhone came out (due to EDGE). But since then I've changed my mind, because of rumours of a European variant of the iPhone, but also because it seems more logical to have a 3G iPhone in Europe. In fact I think my Orange prediction was pretty stupid from the start, mainly because they are owned by France Telecom who are, well, hmmm.
Retail only, does he mention Virtual operator, does he admit he's only talking about only 'several' operators.... And that actually 'early indications' show very little.
Ok so Apple are arrogant, good point. The rest of the article is just old news, pieced together to support an already weak analysis.
chris
ps. It's also funny, as a European, hearing what some people think about 'us'.. but thats another story! 🙂
I predicted Orange would be front runner the day the iPhone came out (due to EDGE). But since then I've changed my mind, because of rumours of a European variant of the iPhone, but also because it seems more logical to have a 3G iPhone in Europe. In fact I think my Orange prediction was pretty stupid from the start, mainly because they are owned by France Telecom who are, well, hmmm.
Retail only, does he mention Virtual operator, does he admit he's only talking about only 'several' operators.... And that actually 'early indications' show very little.
Ok so Apple are arrogant, good point. The rest of the article is just old news, pieced together to support an already weak analysis.
chris
ps. It's also funny, as a European, hearing what some people think about 'us'.. but thats another story! 🙂
MOFS
macrumors 65816
Neither. According to http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=18283&pagtype=allchandate At&T were falling over themselves to get the iPhone - accepting Apple's demands before even seeing it in order to launch the brand. Methinks they tried it in Europe and were laughed out of the offices. The mobile phone market in Europe is just too mature for those kinda tactics.
Not to put extra "churasco" on fuego, but i've read many wrong things on Europe:
1-Europe: one of the continents, which runs till the Urals in the western part of Russia.
2-Europe as EU or the CEE: started in 1958 and then gradually expanded to other countries, thanks to several agreements, the most important is for sure the 1992 Maastricht one.
Switzerland is NOT part of the EU, nor the EURO agreement. It has however signed the Schengen agreement, which implies no more border controls, unless certain circumstances apply. To avoid commerce and political problems with other EU countries, Switzerland is part of the EFTA (sort of alternative CEE, with headquarters in Ginevra) and has established a "packet" of seven different bilateral agreements with EU countries.
3-Euro area, countries with currency.
So speaking of Europe, it's not possible to generalize, every country has it's own traditions, market types, regulations, ecc. The Eu commission issues only basic regulations, leaving to every country a wide range of power.
just a note: In Italy (know it personally) almost only business's use a contract form like in the us, cellphones for personal use instead usually take advantage of the pre-paid form, using unlocked phones.
just my 2 cents,
bye.
1-Europe: one of the continents, which runs till the Urals in the western part of Russia.
2-Europe as EU or the CEE: started in 1958 and then gradually expanded to other countries, thanks to several agreements, the most important is for sure the 1992 Maastricht one.
Switzerland is NOT part of the EU, nor the EURO agreement. It has however signed the Schengen agreement, which implies no more border controls, unless certain circumstances apply. To avoid commerce and political problems with other EU countries, Switzerland is part of the EFTA (sort of alternative CEE, with headquarters in Ginevra) and has established a "packet" of seven different bilateral agreements with EU countries.
3-Euro area, countries with currency.
So speaking of Europe, it's not possible to generalize, every country has it's own traditions, market types, regulations, ecc. The Eu commission issues only basic regulations, leaving to every country a wide range of power.
just a note: In Italy (know it personally) almost only business's use a contract form like in the us, cellphones for personal use instead usually take advantage of the pre-paid form, using unlocked phones.
just my 2 cents,
bye.
Orange doesn't offer EDGE everywhere - we don't have that on the Orange network in Switzerland. They skipped EDGE and went straight for UMTS / HSDPA.
RealMcCoy
macrumors member
EuroPhone
Being a German, that whole story sounds so typical "EuroTrash" ;o) Another chapter of those "Europeans" that are in pain because they need to use the US GPS system, while waiting for their own European Galileo System ... or in case of the Germans ... building up their own Maut Systems, while next door, they could have used already working and succesfully proven systems. But no ! Let´s keep it up all individual ...
Whatever Apple is demanding ... that is their choice ... but I know for a fact, that the complications are "home-made" in Europe. It is of course their choice ... but again a very "European" choice ...
So what !? Maybe they won´t be a iPhone so soon in the European market ... too bad for the Europeans, not for the US ;o)
Being a German, that whole story sounds so typical "EuroTrash" ;o) Another chapter of those "Europeans" that are in pain because they need to use the US GPS system, while waiting for their own European Galileo System ... or in case of the Germans ... building up their own Maut Systems, while next door, they could have used already working and succesfully proven systems. But no ! Let´s keep it up all individual ...
Whatever Apple is demanding ... that is their choice ... but I know for a fact, that the complications are "home-made" in Europe. It is of course their choice ... but again a very "European" choice ...
So what !? Maybe they won´t be a iPhone so soon in the European market ... too bad for the Europeans, not for the US ;o)
jwkay
macrumors regular
No. There's a lot of common-catalogue stuff, but also things which are only available in certain countries. There are Swedish albums I can buy in shops here as imports, but which are only available on the Swedish iTunes store.
As some have already said, the head office of the EU is in Brussels, but you don't call it the capital city of the EU (just as with the NATO, mentioned before). And you can't compare the US with the EU, because the US are 1 country, but the EU is an union of 27 countries.
Many also don't seem to know that the EU is not the same as Europe. Switzerland (and other countries), where I live, doesn't belong to the EU, but is located in the middle of Europe, surrounded by Germany, France, Italy, Liechtenstein and Austria.
Here, only phones you buy together with prepaid cards have a sim lock (this is not by law, but I haven't seen it with contracts). Such a phone is cheaper than if you had bought just the phone alone.
In some countries, sim locking is illegal, in some it is common and even illegal to remove the sim lock. But most countries have a mix of those extremes: allowing sim lock but obligating the carriers to remove the lock after 1 oder 2 years.
Many also don't seem to know that the EU is not the same as Europe. Switzerland (and other countries), where I live, doesn't belong to the EU, but is located in the middle of Europe, surrounded by Germany, France, Italy, Liechtenstein and Austria.
Here, only phones you buy together with prepaid cards have a sim lock (this is not by law, but I haven't seen it with contracts). Such a phone is cheaper than if you had bought just the phone alone.
In some countries, sim locking is illegal, in some it is common and even illegal to remove the sim lock. But most countries have a mix of those extremes: allowing sim lock but obligating the carriers to remove the lock after 1 oder 2 years.
iPhone battery
I hope that Apple will include protection plan with their 24 months contract 😉 Who knows - maybe iPhone's non-replaceable battery will last such a long period. Again, WHO KNOWS?? 😀
I hope that Apple will include protection plan with their 24 months contract 😉 Who knows - maybe iPhone's non-replaceable battery will last such a long period. Again, WHO KNOWS?? 😀
I've read many things in this thread, and quite some bashing between US and Europe (and the other way round 😉 ) as well, but one thing has in my opinion not been stressed enough :
There is no such thing as a unified carrier across Europe
In that respect the starting post is much too weak : Apple does not need a contract with one out of several carriers, Apple needs a lot of different carrier contracts out of a whole damn lot of carriers across Europe...
Furthermore, as was said many times before, in countries like Belgium and Finland they need to sell the phone without a contract or don't sell it at all.
There is no such thing as a unified carrier across Europe
In that respect the starting post is much too weak : Apple does not need a contract with one out of several carriers, Apple needs a lot of different carrier contracts out of a whole damn lot of carriers across Europe...
Furthermore, as was said many times before, in countries like Belgium and Finland they need to sell the phone without a contract or don't sell it at all.
(no iphone fanboys beyond this point, heavy sarcasm)
in europe:
i'll get it for making calls: .. but no carrier is willing to sign Apple's big contract
i'll get it for browsing internet: ... but there is no 3G support
i'll get it for browsing internet anyway: ... but no flash support .. how is this 'proper internet experience on a handheld device, or revolutionary?'
ok yeah that was a bad idea ..
i'll get it for playing games maybe, or some cool apps: ... no sorry only soduku-ish games made on AJAX and web 2.0 ... ok no thanks
i'll get it from USA and use it as an ipod only: ... but why pay premium for the phone? i'll just wait for the 6G proper ipod
*thinking*
i'll get for keeping my notes: ... haha fiddly keypad .. naaa
i'll get it for keeping contacts .. oh yeah!!! they scroll very pretty thats it! 600+ greenies for a digital address book hurrah!
in europe:
i'll get it for making calls: .. but no carrier is willing to sign Apple's big contract
i'll get it for browsing internet: ... but there is no 3G support
i'll get it for browsing internet anyway: ... but no flash support .. how is this 'proper internet experience on a handheld device, or revolutionary?'
ok yeah that was a bad idea ..
i'll get it for playing games maybe, or some cool apps: ... no sorry only soduku-ish games made on AJAX and web 2.0 ... ok no thanks
i'll get it from USA and use it as an ipod only: ... but why pay premium for the phone? i'll just wait for the 6G proper ipod
*thinking*
i'll get for keeping my notes: ... haha fiddly keypad .. naaa
i'll get it for keeping contacts .. oh yeah!!! they scroll very pretty thats it! 600+ greenies for a digital address book hurrah!