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How do we force shutdown when the virtual power button is unresponsive? On my current late-2011 MBP, I hold the actual, non-virtual power button for five seconds as a last resort. I really, really hope the new last resort isn't "drive fifty miles to the nearest Genius Bar during working hours".

I really, really think you need to stop being a hypochondriac. Of course you'll be able to force-restart your machine if it hangs. Just like the iPhone 7, which can you can still force-restart despite not having a physical home button.
 
And yesterday people were literally CRYING how expensive Surface Studio is hahahaha.

I said it already but I will repeat:

Einstein said that two things are certain:
Infinite human stupidity and universe... though he isn't so sure about the universe.

It's a 2T SSD 1,9 GH Processor, 4GB Graphic card. Also in Europe the tax is include in the price and the tax is around 550€ .

You had compared apple with Apple ;-).

You will pay with tax near 4700 USD
 
Many, me included, feel the same.
Many posts do survive one way or another regarding the way Apple is heading without Jobs.

It's simple, IMHO:
Apple, after Steve, tries to push on with the products and vision Steve introduced, but cannot innovate.

No innovation (apart from a few gimmicks) are introduced after the death of Steve.

All new Apple products are evolutionary, not revolutionary. Newer iPhones are faster and have more features. Newer iPads are faster and have more features. Newer Macs are faster and have more features... etc. etc.
But they still are the same products.

Tim steers Apple into new markets: i.e. new countries. Trying to expand sales by creating new areas of distribution. It's the best thing Tim can do.

He is not a visionary. He knows that. He is not a product guy. He knows that. Tim does what he thinks he can do best for Apple:
Invest in countries and governments make deals, invest in partnerships (IBM, Cisco).

I have endless respect for the capabilities of Tim Cook as the COO. Not as the CEO I'm afraid.

But... who can... actually lead Apple?

The legacy Steve left behind is just too difficult to follow up.
And... TBO.... I think it's the way Steve wanted it. He is sorely missed....
 
Wow page 2 and nothing but hate. I am outta here. Not exactly understanding what folks expect out of a laptop. However in typical Apple fashion $2k for a laptop with 256 gb drive and 8mb ram isnt all that. I did think that touchbar was pretty slick even tho many here think that was not very innovative. Not sure anything like that has ever existed on a laptop that I am aware. Oh well I still like my PC just fine. Later haters.
 
Retina touch bar, well if the mighty mouse wanted competition for worst new feature it has it. This idea is just horrid. I never ever look at my keyboard. Never. What a usability joke.
 
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8Gb as standard on premium hardware is, in a word, pathetic! The sum needed to bring it up to running anything more challenging than Word is pure scalping, plain and simple. Bought in protest as I need a new machine and I am not yet ready to switch to Windows, but I'm headed in that direction.
On Windows, 8GB would be barely usable, you're right.

But this is OS X, and does MUCH better with lower RAM. In fact, I just upgraded a friend's Mac mini that he uses as a HTPC, and was AMAZED that it was chugging along just fine with 2 GB of RAM! I just recommended he Upgrade the memory while it was still easy to find. It wasn't because there were any low-RAM warnings or slow-performance issues.

Same thing with my 2013 non-retina MBP. I bought it with 4 GB, planning to immediately upgrade it to 8 GB. Haven't bothered to do it yet. No low-RAM problems so far.

Windows, OTOH, has a penchant (by design, BTW) of eating up ALL available RAM as a kind of "cache". So, there is a pretty direct correlation between amount of RAM and performance in a Windows system. But OS X doesn't do that. So, it doesn't run as "near to the red", RAM-utilization-wise, and thus can much more easily get good performance out of much less RAM that with Windows.
 
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I really, really think you need to stop being a hypochondriac. Of course you'll be able to force-restart your machine if it hangs. Just like the iPhone 7, which can you can still force-restart despite not having a physical home button.

Lol, don't worry — I do assume there will be a way to do it. I'm just wondering what it will be. (OK, a small part of me is worried there won't be a way to do it, but I realize that's extremely unlikely.)
 
Same here. I had a mid-2012 15"MBP.

Just ordered the new 15"MBP w/ Radeon Pro 460 and 512GB. I hope that this one lasts me up to the year 2021.
Sounds like very much the same! The Radeon Pro 460 is the first upgrade I ticked. Anything to keep the computer running as long as possible. And 5 years is my goal too. If this new MacBook Pro had been more of the same with improved specifications I'd continue using my 2012 for another year, or even longer provided it continued to hold out and do its job.
 
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My 2010 15" with discrete graphics(!) was 1800 euro...
Got a major tax-advantage on the 2013 15" - which was ~2800 euro the top-model...
And now 2700 for the *mid*-range model and still need to upgrade the SSD to 512 to get sth useable...

So we arrived at literally double prices now, wow... talking about "inflation" !

Starting to have serious doubts about staying in the mac ecosystem, seriously...
 
I'm thinking I might do the same. Is there a big drop off in specs for the 15"? Adjacently, is there a big drop off on future-proofing for the 15"s? 13"s?

Depends what you're intending to do with it tbh, specs are important to me but most computers for the last couple of years have been good enough for most tasks and keyboard & screen are really what matter to me now, developer/CompSci student so I spend a huge amount of time typing (hence the vehement dislike for the touch bar).
The 2015 MBP is still rocking the same CPU as the 2014 one, they bumped graphics & added force touch in 2015 which was a little underwhelming and why I decided to wait it out until the next release..which was clearly a mistake. All in all they're okay and fairly future proof unless you're editing 4K footage ha, but you're paying a vast amount more than is reasonable for it, so I'd aim for a refurbished one, and you've got decent IO even if you're missing out on thunderbolt 3/type-C.
 
Very underwhelming for the most part. Touch bar is very nice considering all the settings that can be accessed especially in PS.

But wasn't quite the power bump and the HD size is too pricey IMHO.

But at least they had Microsoft announcing yesterday so that these prices seem cheap.
 
Neat MBPs. Wish I needed that much horsepower. I'm waiting for Kaby Lake Retina MacBook... and an updated Mac Mini for my Plex server.
 
You've got to be kidding. A computer that makes all your USB peripherals obsolete or only connectable with a $49/each Thunderbolt to USB adaptor?
I went on Amazon and for £24.99 you get a USB C hub with 4k HDMI and 4 x USB 3.1, delivering power to the MBP. There is a cheaper one with a VGA adapter.
 
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Audio Ports!?! F'n Hell Apple. Now I have to carry one set of lightning headphones for my iPhone7 and a separate pair of analog or usbC headphones just for my mac?! Such a fail! :mad:

Exactly. And since the AirPods are not available indefinitely, Apple clearly wants us all to continue using the 3.5mm headphones we already own, with the added inconvenience of the adapter.

You're not getting it. You need wireless headphones!

Why would anyone buy a pair of wireless headphones without the W1 chip in them for use with Apple products? And the only one's currently available are the $300 Beats over the ear, headphones, so unless they want those, they're out of luck.

No. You're SUPPOSED to buy wireless headphones and use them for both. :rolleyes:

Right, see above.

Bluetooth.

I don't get people who will drop a fortune on Apple products but draw the line on a quality pair of wireless headphones that are more convenient on multiple levels. Some even have a wire port that doesn't require the headphones to be charged if you insist on living in the past.

Bluetooth is still definitely lo-fi tech. At least Apple's W1 chip offers ease of use between Apple products. And the only one's currently available are the Beats Solo3, which require a micr-USB cable to charge them. Last I checked it didn't have a USB-C connector on the opposite end. And there goes the was of use between Apple products, in the requirement to carry around extra cables and dongles.

so let me get this straight. First the iPhone got rid of 3.5 audio but kept the very specific lightning port, then the macbook loses usb but keeps the audio port while lacking a lightning port for apple brand headphones AND becomes ungodly expensive? what are they smoking?! I want some of whatever it is! And I know this is going to stir up a lot of hardcore apple people, but here comes 1997 again for apple. what are they even thinking at this point?

Agreed. Should have added a Lightning port. There's even room for one where the Mag-Safe used to be.

bluetooth.

Nah. See above.
 
Let's see... Six pound. 170 Watt power supply - so how long is the battery going to last (they don't mention it)? They don't mention external monitors? It's a desktop in a flat case. Compare it to an iMac if you want. I asked about a _better_ laptop.
It is not a desktop in a case. That would be 12-core and it weighs 5Kg.
 
You clearly don't understand (or don't want to understand) the "Gorilla Arm" syndrome. It is caused by reaching out toward a display that is a couple of FEET in front of you (like a desktop monitor) for extended periods of time. The Tool Bar on the new MacBook Pros is on the same PLANE as the keyboard, and so does not require the "Reach out" sort of action with your arm suspended in the air.

Hmm.

On a laptop, the screen sits much closer to you than a desktop. Literally inches from where your hands already are. Millimiters from where this dumbass touchbar is.

We're not talking about sustained arm extension. I'm tired of that trope.

Touchscreen laptops are meant for you to tap or swipe certain items on the screen. It takes less effort than say, scratching your nose. Or moving your hand from the keyboard to the mouse and back. It's intuitive, and useful. And with convertibles, you flip it like a tablet and boom.

On the Surface Studio, the screen comes to you, and is at an angle similar to a drafting table.

Granted, you'd have to slide the keyboard and mouse to the side, but still.

The whole "gorilla arm" thing is just a fallacy.
 
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eh. i thought future innovation would be less looking at your keyboard and more looking at your screen.... guess not in apple's version of courage

Ouch! Yeah the Surface line and all its emulators are making everyone appreciate touch more, but they can't cave and do the same because it's Apple and they have to be different for the sake of being different. I do like the TB3 ports and how that opens up external GPU options for 13" rMBPs, but at that price point it's a joke. And re: headphones and "courage", unless the TB3 ports also serve lightning headphones, I don't know what they were thinking there. Not being able to use the same lightning headphones you bought for a new iPhone in your newer Mac is just plain ridiculous.
 
So no you need the Lightning to USB Adapter to use your new Headphones…… Oh Wait!

Exactly! Where is this adapter, much less to any other audio standard!? Not even a hint that someone is making one. Perhaps now that the other shoe has dropped with the Macs, someone will jump on this.
 
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