Apple Updates App Store Review Guidelines to Allow Streaming Game Services That Submit Each Game to the App Store [Updated]

[swagi]

It sounds like they are changing the rules to make them clearer and simplify the approval process. I don't use netflix or play mindcraft, so I have no idea what you are talking about. All that is clear is that streaming movies and streaming games are different enough to justify different rules.

So basically you don‘t have a clue what you’re talking about yet think you need to share your opinion.
So I feel free to tell you that my opinion on the matter is that Apple legal just sucks and is anti-consumer.

There is actually no fundamental reason other than greed and the fear of Apple Arcade becoming irrelevant. That’s it.

Oh, and before you start arguing about IAP remember that I can currently use the XBOX App on my phone to buy games from Microsoft’s marketplace.

 

[Calarityy]

This is a good starting point for Apple in terms of allowing developers some freedom within the walled garden. I believe that Apple needs to be ahead of the antitrust/government investigations by opening up the App Store if they want to keep any form of control of their platform if these antitrust suits are successful.

tldr: Apple needs to set (more favorable) terms with developers before the terms are dictated to them without input, assuming a loss in the courts.

 

[4jasontv]

The point is that you still need to go through testing and obtain a license whether you are driving a car or a motorcycle and you still have to follow similar rules on the road. You still have to stop at stop signs, you still have to stop at red lights, etc. etc.

That you think it's honorable that Apple wants to keep game streaming in check is absolutely laughable. Too many unknowns? Technology is full of unknowns.

What types of things do you possible think might happen with game streaming that would harm users?

It doesn't matter what the test is looking for, or how much overlap there is. States see them as different so we have to recognize them as different. It doesn't matter if the distinction was arbitrary.

Users are not the deciding factor over how this will play out. This is two companies battling over control. Users are the product being bargained for. Apple wants to maintain a cut of revenue from developers. Developers want a bigger piece of the pie.

But since you asked about users here are some issues with PC gaming. DRM prevents me from using the launchers I want to use. Even if I buy a game from Steam I still have to use Origin or Uplay for their games. GOG 2 offers improved launcher function, but it still requires I install whatever they want. If I buy a game from Steam and EA adds ads into a game I already paid for there is nothing I can do. Steam and EA have different EULA that can negate the other making it impossible to find resolutions. By making apps have to go through an Apple check first I can lodge my concerns to Apple and they have power over the developer who may be trying to use underhanded tactics to extract more money from their users. By making each game a seperate app developers have to demonstrate that each game functions as intended and they can't launch a game that doesn't run, or misrepresents content, or contains IAP without listing them.

 

[Rogifan]

You are clearly mistaken. It's about both companies speaking out to get Apple to change their policy.

Epic did it by breaking the rules and bringing in the lawyers - they got the door slammed in their face.

Microsoft did it via media statement, expressing concerns with good reasoning - they make progress.

Seems to me like nothing has changed other than Apple taking all their reasons why they wouldn’t allow game streaming on iOS and turning them into requirements in order for game streaming to be allowed. The update they made to the “reader” category to basically allow email apps seems like a direct result of the issue with Hey. I would argue this is a terrible way to make App Store policy. Apple needs to rip the entire policy up and start from scratch.

 

[Physicsdummy]

Games are full programs that you interact with. Netflix only hosts video files. Video files generally either work, or not.

You clearly don't understand how game streaming works at all.

 

[Norouzi]

Mmmmmmm.....if you actually read, then you'd realize they're forcing xCloud to function just as the "Arcade" section of the App Store already does on Mac, tvOS, and iOS. xCloud will provide the bundles and App Store download link. Developers can bundle their software, but Apple still gets to make sure their products are quality (ie not having a few games within the app being completely broken from over bloated software). People would bitch about, "iPhone version of this sucks, so I'm switching to Android."
If games were allowed to function in this way, then that opens the door to virtualization software. For example, why can't I just upload a Windows app to run x, y, z program? Why not an Android app? It defeats the purpose of all measures they take to ensure safe, quality software for all users. Steve Jobs was adamant about it; Apple will never compromise on that.
Now for those drawing comparison to Netflix..... Games are full programs that you interact with. Netflix only hosts video files. Video files generally either work, or not. Full on programs have a lot more room for bugs. This is why Apple insists on every game must be submitted for review. Apple doesn't want to host trash, shady, or subpar software.

Except this type of service is more like Netflix than Apple Arcade. With Apple Arcade I'm gaining access to a catalog of downloadable, natively running iOS developed games. Xcloud doesn't actually download and run games. It's akin to me scrubbing through a Netflix video, or using one of their "Interactive" shows where I make a choice and am presented a different video (although much more complicated). The iOS device is simply relaying controller data up to servers hosted by Microsoft and then streaming the video down to my device.
It's like SteamLink (which Apple is totally OK with by the way) except it's not hosted by me and running off my Steam account but hosted by Microsoft.

 

[Physicsdummy]

The iOS device is simply relaying controller data up to servers hosted by Microsoft and then streaming the video down to my device.

What's even crazier is if you take into account Stadia and their special controller, which connects to wifi itself and goes directly to Google's servers, the device is literally doing nothing else but displaying the video, so not even reading inputs in the app.

 

[4jasontv]

So basically you don‘t have a clue what you’re talking about yet think you need to share your opinion.
So I feel free to tell you that my opinion on the matter is that Apple legal just sucks and is anti-consumer.

There is actually no fundamental reason other than greed and the fear of Apple Arcade becoming irrelevant. That’s it.

Oh, and before you start arguing about IAP remember that I can currently use the XBOX App on my phone to buy games from Microsoft’s marketplace.

No one here knows 100%, and this is all opinion. Welcome to the internet, you are the product these companies are fighting for. There are plenty of good reasons for Apple to put developers in their place, many of which I have listed.

I think you have a poor understanding of how different types of transactions are classified, but I am not basing my argument on that.

 

[dguisinger]

You are clearly mistaken. It's about both companies speaking out to get Apple to change their policy.

Epic did it by breaking the rules and bringing in the lawyers - they got the door slammed in their face.

Microsoft did it via media statement, expressing concerns with good reasoning - they make progress.

Making progress..... what a joke

 

[dguisinger]

Hate to break this to you but the market share for gaming as the number 1 or even in the top 10 reasons for owing an iPhone are very small. Even if everyone who says they are going to switch actually do switch the drop in sales of iPhones will be nothing more than a rounding error.

Don't confuse the real world with what is said on forums.

Oh yes, the uproar over Xcloud isn't real, its just on forums. I was told the uproar over my 3 dead keyboards was just on forums and not real, guess what... it was real and they stopped making the stupid design.

 

[4jasontv]

Making progress..... what a joke

Is it not progress? If you ask for later curfew and your parents agree but require you to call them every 5 minutes did you not get your request? It may not be 100% what they want, but Apple addressed the concern and layed out their expectations so Microsoft could plan how they wish to approach it.

 

[Stewie]

Oh yes, the uproar over Xcloud isn't real, its just on forums. I was told the uproar over my 3 dead keyboards was just on forums and not real, guess what... it was real and they stopped making the stupid design.

A design flaw that impact all users vs a few people that want to play games on their iPhone is not even close to the same thing.

 

[nexusrule]

This doesn't really make sense, and it sounds like they want to appear like they're working with companies when they really aren't. With this rule, Microsoft basically has to make a version of their XCloud app that can only stream one game, and then they'll have to duplicate 100+ times for every other game. That's dumb. Can you imagine if Netflix had to create a different app for every show or movie?

You are comparing several thousands items to 100 items, there is nothing to imagine, it’s really two different worlds.

 

[dguisinger]

You are comparing several thousands items to 100 items, there is nothing to imagine, it’s really two different worlds.

Must be nice to be able to move the goalposts to fit whatever narrative you wish to support

 

[4jasontv]

You are comparing several thousands items to 100 items, there is nothing to imagine, it’s really two different worlds.

It's not even that hard. Microsoft makes a container that has a login to a specific game and every new game is packaged in it. It shouldn't be much more than verify user and link to their game stream.

 

[FreekieGeekie]

I mean, to be real, I actually have no problem with this new policy. To put things in prospective, though, Netflix is a streaming service and they don’t have to upload everything in their library individually. But, with games, I probably see several reasons why they would come with this approach. This is doable, though, I can’t even act like it ain’t. Better than what was there before, that’s for damn sure. Super glad they nipped the bud of all the apps that require you to tap an ad or meet some condition to use the software, though.

 

[Physicsdummy]

But, with games, I probably see several reasons why they would come with this approach.

And what are those reasons? Because people seem very confused over what game streaming actually is.

 

[mrclamp]

So, this has become a big deal now because these are some crazy changes in a lot of ways. It does feel like a reaction to everything that has been levied against them at this point, and it makes sense.

What if the game streaming thing is simply this: You have the xCloud or Stadia aggregate app that is a catalog of all titles. This app can also play those games through the streaming tech. Then you ALSO have individual listings for each game that goes in the catalog: Halo 5, Halo: The Master Chief Collection, ReCore, Forza, Sea of Thieves, etc. This is in the app store and a listing for each of these games...but no way to download that one specific app, but instead links to xCloud (or in other cases Stadia). It clearly marks that it is only for those services, it spells out what they are in the individual listing and the catalog app.

In thinking about it this could make discoverability of games in these services higher. How am I to know what games are in the service? Go on the internet and look it up first? Meh, I'm lazy (not really because if there was no way to look through the catalog without a login and paying already I would look it up first, but not everyone is like that). It also helps parents to understand what their kids may be playing through this service. Think Gears of War is too violent? Okay, BUT they would have to do something with parental controls. I also get the idea of Screen Time restrictions.

No arguments they want control over this because it is still a new industry that could potentially evolve. It is untested (outside of the obscure services that came up years ago and while there are those who used them, they are not as big as Microsoft).

I really hope that xCloud and Stadia come to iOS. I don't want to jump out of the Apple ecosystem for something like that.

Just my thoughts. I am always open to a healthy debate about this stuff.

 

[darkslide29]

I give up hope for waiting that xCloud be allowed. I cannot believe I just bought a Samsung tablet so that I can play xCloud on. For those who aren't gamers and don't care, I'm glad to hear you're unaffected by these app store guidelines.

This is my first non-apple device purchase in over 10 years! I know that I am just one person, but that money really was going to go toward an iPad upgrade for myself this fall. So Apple won't be getting that purchase from me, as it went to Samsung, and they'll never even care or notice, lol.

 

[Norouzi]

It's not even that hard. Microsoft makes a container that has a login to a specific game and every new game is packaged in it. It shouldn't be much more than verify user and link to their game stream.

Let's compare this to something more similar. What is Xcloud when it comes down to it? It's a VNC client that let's you access games installed on an Xbox in the cloud. Your simply paying for the hosting and licensing. Same as running a Windows VM in Azure or AWS. If Apple were to apply these rules to VNC/RDP apps, which arguably let you do the same type of thing as Xcloud, then you would have to build an iOS app for every VM you wanted to connect it to, re-submit it every time you updated the OS on the VM and somehow tie the purchase of any software you wanted to buy on that VM into the app store.

Does that sound reasonable and easily doable?

 

[Physicsdummy]

It also helps parents to understand what their kids may be playing through this service. Think Gears of War is too violent? Okay, BUT they would have to do something with parental controls

You can do this all already through the app, running the xCloud app is basically running an Xbox through the Cloud, any parental restriction you can place on actual Xbox you can do to xCloud, same for Stadia. Don't understand why Apple needs to be a middle man here.

 

[dguisinger]

You can do this all already through the app, running the xCloud app is basically running an Xbox through the Cloud, any parental restriction you can place on actual Xbox you can do to xCloud, same for Stadia. Don't understand why Apple needs to be a middle man here.

How about parents actually doing the job of parenting?

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

Apples lame attempt of trying to avoid regulatory action may be just found as such... a smokescreen.
Making a single app for every streaming game... that's just a ridicolous and obvious deterent. I really hope that fires back.

Microsoft should just improve the RDP Protocol to make it capable of streaming GPU video output. Then use Microsoft Remote Desktop App as client.
Because that is exactly what it is.

I would be really curious how Apple reacts to that. If they then kick the RDP app it would basically be saying that they want to control YOUR content.
That would be next level nanny... not say Apple being a control freak... *puts the popcorn in the microwave*

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

You are comparing several thousands items to 100 items, there is nothing to imagine, it’s really two different worlds.

No it really isn't.

 

[4jasontv]

Let's compare this to something more similar. What is Xcloud when it comes down to it? It's a VNC client that let's you access games installed on an Xbox in the cloud. Your simply paying for the hosting and licensing. Same as running a Windows VM in Azure or AWS. If Apple were to apply these rules to VNC/RDP apps, which arguably let you do the same type of thing as Xcloud, then you would have to build an iOS app for every VM you wanted to connect it to, re-submit it every time you updated the OS on the VM and somehow tie the purchase of any software you wanted to buy on that VM into the app store.

Does that sound reasonable and easily doable?

Yes it does sound reasonable and easily doable.

But that's not the point. It's not a VNC client because I can't run anything I want, only the software that has been licensed to me from the company charging me for access. Since the VNC client and the software are tied together, and because of the nature of the content being provided I see no reason Apple should not work to align it with not streaming versions of other games that are offered on iOS.

I agree that it was a bad move on Apple's part to allow some software to be provided without cost, but again, that was Apple's choice.