Apple Vision Pro Launches in UK, Canada, France, Germany, and Australia

[Mr_Ed]

It’s a prosumer device; either way no standalone headset comes close to it consuming premium non-XR and XR content with its screen beyond gaming with its screen too demanding for GPUs to realistically run against it.

It has enterprise profile support and prosumers of that kind are not waiting around for others to make things for them to mindlessly consume.

The fact the Vision Pro enables a Macbook Pro to be more useful and private on the go with its mirroring capabilities (especially with 2.0’s 5K2K mode) is certainly valuable to prosumers at enterprise level.

If it’s sold to retail consumers, it’s a consumer product, “Pro” monickers and all. MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iPhone Pro, and Apple Vision Pro are ALL consumer products.

Especially if you’re a professional working on need-to-know/confidential content

You clearly know NOTHING about working with sensitive, need-to-know/confidential content. If you carry that data/work somewhere where you need to physically hide it from view, you’ve already lost.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I don't see what's so funny.

I am using the iPad to teach in the classroom. And I have been doing so ever since I bought my first iPad in 2012. And the reason I prefer using it over a laptop is precisely because it's a bigger iPhone. The iPad brought with it all-day battery life. It was thin and light. It had cellular built in. That it ran iOS meant I had access to a massive App Library, and developers would quickly hop on board with tablet apps such as notability (which I am still using today).

I also remember using a green screen app to record my principal giving a speech on my iPad, and then editing it directly, in lieu of using my school's green screen room, where the software running on the PC was crappy. And the $5 app did a better job too. I could have done it on a phone as well, but the interface would have been smaller and more cumbersome to interact with and at the end of the day, I find myself doing a lot more things on my iPad simply because the larger display made it more comfortable to use (I am not going to be editing videos using lumafusion on my iPhone even if it were technically possible). And iOS was smooth and a dream to interact with, as it was optimised for touch and direct input.

My screen time stats say it all as I tend to clock way more hours on my iPads over the last few years compared to my phone.

Maybe to you, it's nothing "revolutionary", but for me, that it's a bigger iPhone did make all the difference. At the time, windows laptops had very poor battery life, and app support for android tablets was non-existent. The iPad was this modular slab of glass that could turn into anything I wanted with the right app. And I see myself continuing to use the iPad in this manner for the near foreseeable future.

You also need to take my comment in the CONTEXT of the discussion. Isolating it like you did lead to a reply that doesn’t really have anything to do with what I was saying, which was:

“Saying that a 10 foot 2D virtual screen makes Vision revolutionary is like saying that iPad is revolutionary because it can run iPhone apps bigger.”

I hope this clarifies things because two of you have now made a fairly significant effort to rebut a comment you took out of context.

 

[triton100]

Had a demo in the UK this morning. I’ve been skeptical, but the demo was very impressive. Pretty damn amazing actually. Pass through quality was way better than I was expecting. Immersive stuff is pretty magical. Just trying to justify spending so much. If Apple sold this for £1-2k in the UK I think it would do well. Amazing product

Had my demo today. Completely underwhelmed and cannot understand how everyone is talking up the magical aspect of it. And this is coming from someone who wanted to buy one. The image quality is good but it’s not incredible like everyone says.

 

[Abazigal]

“Saying that a 10 foot 2D virtual screen makes Vision revolutionary is like saying that iPad is revolutionary because it can run iPhone apps bigger.”

I will say this is true too.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I will say this is true too.

You will say that a virtual 10 foot 2D screen makes Vision REVOLUTIONARY?

Okay, then. I guess your comment stands on its own merit. I don’t see how much more blatant your message could be.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Of course there's more than "just" (whatever limited example you choose as the only thing you'll acknowledge)!

Big application windows all around you is a part of it, because the easiest way to port an existing app to Vision OS is to bring it over unchanged, and show it in a big (resizable) application window. It's like having six or twelve 20-inch iPads available, when you need them.

The ability to run most iPad and iOS apps in these windows as is made a huge library of Apps available at launch. You wouldn't buy an AVP because of those apps, any more than you'd have bought an OG iPad because it could run most iPhone apps. But having those apps available made the iPad more useful than it would be if it could only run dedicated iPad apps. The same goes for the AVP.

Recently I went through some scanned 3D photographs that I took 30 or so years ago. Wearing the AVP headset, I used a program on my Mac to align them so they'd look good in 3D and to brighten and fix a few blemishes from the old negatives. I saved the results in a cloud drive. Then, using an iPad app running on my Vision Pro, I converted the side-by-side images into spatial photos and saved them into my photo library. I could immediately see them in 3D using the native photos app. If there were flaws, such as a blemish that showed up in one eye and not the other, I could immediately fix it in the still-running photo editor on the Mac, save it again, convert it and import it into Photos, then repeat if needed until I was satisfied with the result.

I could have done the same thing using the Mac to edit and align, and then picking up the Mac to convert to spatial and add to photos, and then putting on the headset to view the results. Then I'd have to take off the headset if I needed to tweak anything on the photo editor on the Mac.

I hadn't seen those pictures in 3D in a very long time, and I am glad to have them in a format that lets me view them easily.

I appreciate the reply.

But I would encourage you to not take subtle “shots” at people when you’re responding please.

There’s no need to get personal here. This is just a simple product.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Probably the most horrible product Apple has ever made.

The sales numbers and narrative around it while being only six months old would support this assertion

 

[turbineseaplane]

Had my demo today. Completely underwhelmed and cannot understand how everyone is talking up the magical aspect of it. And this is coming from someone who wanted to buy one. The image quality is good but it’s not incredible like everyone says.

I’m not sure anyone would admit to this, but I’m wondering if those that are most impressed with it don’t have a lot of previous VR headset experience.

I remember my first VR headset experience and you can get distracted by how impressive that is at first glance before the realities of the experience in

 

[CrysisDeu]

Yes, because selling a product at zero profit makes total business sense.

Not when you are trying to popularize a new product line and get people into the ecosystem

 

[Surf Monkey]

I appreciate the reply.

But I would encourage you to not take shots at people when you’re trying to respond.

There’s no need to get personal here. This is just a simple product.

On the topic, I continue to fail to see how “lots of application screens around you” is revolutionary or of significant enough difference to make the product indispensable. One can place screens around their room in the real world too after all.

And to circle back to what I was saying earlier, wouldn’t you expect the unique nature of Vision to be focused on 3D applications that are not encumbered by a flat, 2D screen-based interface? I would.

I kind of find it amazing that these many fervent supporters of the device keep citing large and numerous virtual screens. That seems like the LEAST interesting and unique thing the device could do. Why in the world would anyone make that the lynchpin of their defense of the device?

 

[lilkwarrior]

If it’s sold to retail consumers, it’s a consumer product, “Pro” monickers and all. MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iPhone Pro, and Apple Vision Pro are ALL consumer products.


You clearly know NOTHING about working with sensitive, need-to-know/confidential content. If you carry that data/work somewhere where you need to physically hide it from view, you’ve already lost.

…As a HCI/UX professional that have worked for government, educational, and enterprise entries in Silcon Valley, Zürich, and New York for over a decade I strongly disagree.

The very definition of prosumer has much more to do with other things than where products are sold.

B&H and Apple store itself are very common prosumer retail locations that very much sell prosumer products that are not for most people in addition to pure consumer products.

A prosumer product by the very definition is a product that you can consume and produce with—the things you can consume/product being at a quality ideal or recognized as professional quality.

As a person that have worked on unreleased products and even political campaigns, what you’re saying about need-to-know content is nonsense and arbitrary.

It’s important especially with legal and global-affairs-related need to know content usually ideal and beneficial to make private even amongst co-workers working global multi-national companies.

A spatial computing headset combined with a mobile device manages (MDM) profile enables this within and outside the office for enterprise, educational, and government employees.

The Vision Pro by no coincidence has such things in addition to Apple’s other prosumer hardware.

You may be working for a very hopelessly conservative and draconian employer, household, or upbringing to think otherwise.

 

[turbineseaplane]

On the topic, I continue to fail to see how “lots of application screens around you” is revolutionary or of significant difference to make the product indispensable. One can place screens around their room in the real world too.

And to circle back to what I was saying earlier, wouldn’t you expect the unique nature of Vision to be focused on 3D applications that are not encumbered by a flat, 2D screen, whether virtual or not?

I kind of find it amazing that these many fervent supporters of the device keep citing large and numerous virtual screens. That seems like the LEAST interesting and unique thing the device could do. Why in the world would anyone make that the lynchpin of their defense of the device?

I agree with everything you said here.

I really think Apple fell down on the first party software side here.

They don’t have one single compelling truly unique and revolutionary experience that you can only get with this device.

I mean, the photo stuff is cool and content is always great on this type of device, but I mean something really specialized and unique in the “spatial computing” realm

That is what is so mystifying and really makes you feel like they pushed this product out the door when it really was not ready

 

[Surf Monkey]

I remember my first VR headset experience and you can get distracted by how impressive that is at first glance before the realities of the experience in

This. The feeling wears off pretty quickly and while newer better hardware can reignite some of the magic initially it wears off even quicker once you’ve been “on the ride” a few times already.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This. The feeling wears off pretty quickly and while newer better hardware can reignite some of the magic initially it wears off even quicker once you’ve been “on the ride” a few times already.

And before you know it, it’s taking a little bit more desire to even put it on… And then eventually it just feels like too much effort and it sits there on the shelf

Same story for every VR headset ever

 

[lilkwarrior]

Not when you are trying to popularize a new product line and get people into the ecosystem

The Vision Pro goal is not designed to be primarily that nor any prosumer product:

You think the Pro Display XDR, Macbook Pro, iPad Pro, Mac Pro, Mac Studio, and even the iPhone Pro are priced for mainstream adoption?

Same applies to other prosumer hardware such as the 4090.

 

[triton100]

I’m not sure anyone would admit to this, but I’m wondering if those that are most impressed with it don’t have a lot of previous VR headset experience.

I remember my first VR headset experience and you can get distracted by how impressive that is at first glance before the realities of the experience in

Possibly but I’m fairly sure I read reviews from people who had also used a metaquest etc. and said the avp was incredible. It’s clearly a great bit of kit but it’s simply not this magical device that everyone is saying. I really wanted it to be. The 3D is just your usual 3D. There’s nothing more advanced that I could notice over regular 3D tvs or even Cinema screens. The photos were high resolution but not astounding. I’ve seen sharper resolutions on an OLED display so why is everyone raving about it. I just don’t get what I’m missing.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Possibly but I’m fairly sure I read reviews from people who had also used a metaquest etc. and said the avp was incredible. It’s clearly a great bit of kit but it’s simply not this magical device that everyone is saying. I really wanted it to be. The 3D is just your usual 3D. There’s nothing more advanced that I could notice over regular 3D tvs or even Cinema screens. The photos were high resolution but not astounding. I’ve seen sharper resolutions on an OLED display so why is everyone raving about it. I just don’t get what I’m missing.

I guess we just have to chalk it up to the RDF

“It’s Apple”

Must be magical and surely better than everything else

 

[doelcm82]

“Saying that a 10 foot 2D virtual screen makes Vision revolutionary is like saying that iPad is revolutionary because it can run iPhone apps bigger.”

Well, that's a straw man. No one is saying that ANY ONE THING makes the Vision "revolutionary. "

I'm not even hung up on "revolutionary". I could say the iPad revolutionized keeping kids entertained during road trips. You could then say "Hah. You think THAT'S a revolution? ROTFL!"

 

[Surf Monkey]

…As a HCI/UX professional that have worked for government, educational, and enterprise entries in Silcon Valley, Zürich, and New York for over a decade I strongly disagree.

The very definition of prosumer has much more to do with other things than where products are sold.

B&H and Apple store itself are very common prosumer retail locations that very much sell prosumer products that are not for most people in addition to pure consumer products.

A prosumer product by the very definition is a product that you can consume and produce with—the things you can consume/product being at a quality ideal or recognized as professional quality.

As a person that have worked on unreleased products and even political campaigns, what you’re saying about need-to-know content is nonsense and arbitrary.

It’s important especially with legal and global-affairs-related need to know content usually ideal and beneficial to make private even amongst co-workers working global multi-national companies.

A spatial computing headset combined with a mobile device manages (MDM) profile enables this within and outside the office for enterprise, educational, and government employees.

The Vision Pro by no coincidence has such things in addition to Apple’s other prosumer hardware.

You may be working for a very hopelessly conservative and draconian employer, household, or upbringing to think otherwise.

Prosumer and consumer are the same thing. There’s no significant difference there. The dividing line is enterprise versus consumer markets. Take Lenovo for example. They make a range of consumer products that they label things like “pro.” But their SERVER line is B to B. They sell enterprise servers in bulk to companies that deploy them specifically for business applications. That’s the distinction we’re talking about here. Not made up tiers of consumer classifications like entry-level, prosumer and enthusiast.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Well, that's a straw man. No one is saying that ANY ONE THING makes the Vision "revolutionary. "

I'm not even hung up on "revolutionary". I could say the iPad revolutionized keeping kids entertained during road trips. You could then say "Hah. You think THAT'S a revolution? ROTFL!"

And again, you’re taking it out of the context of the discussion. I (and several others) asked for examples of what makes Vision unique and revolutionary. What can it do that just can’t be done with any other hardware? The post you’re responding to exists inside that CONTEXT and only makes sense when considered as part of the whole discussion. I’d suggest you read back a few pages before attempting to shame me again without any just cause.

 

[lilkwarrior]

And before you know it, it’s taking a little bit more desire to even put it on… And then eventually it just feels like too much effort and it sits there on the shelf

Same story for every VR headset ever

That sounds like a personal problem; unlike other VR headsets the Vision Pro is designed to work alongside and in place of its non-XR counterparts.

Other headsets don’t even have parity with TVs not having HDR not capable of consuming/rendering premium home content on par with non-XR hardware.

Today’s gaming headsets such as the PSVR2 and Quest 3 aren’t capable of XR games better and on par with consoles as well making it a hard sell to the audience they were hoping to buy their hardware at unrealistic prices they can recoup later like console manufacturers (price loss strategy).

The Vision Pro doesn’t have that problem having prosumer capabilities in par with their other prosumer hardware and the best headset to do meaningful stuff with—including for lesser spatial headsets available now and later:

Like the Pro Display XDR, it will be unlikely for some time for other standalone spatial computing hardware to be on par and better capabilities as it does today without a similar price (i.e. PA32UCG MSRP vs Pro Display CDR),

 

[lilkwarrior]

Prosumer and consumer are the same thing. There’s no significant difference there. The dividing line is enterprise versus consumer markets. Take Lenovo for example. They make a range of consumer products that they label things like “pro.” But their SERVER line is B to B. They sell enterprise servers in bulk to companies that deploy them specifically for business applications. That’s the distinction we’re talking about here. Not made up tiers of consumer classifications like entry-level, prosumer and enthusiast.

No. Casual search engine results in addition to academia (business and product design 101 frankly) for decades adamantly disagree with you.

Apple isn’t even the best prosumer company in the market with more successful ones striving right now such as Nvidia (their Titan-class GPUs being the ultimate work and play GPUs and prosumer task substantially better than their competition)

 

[Surf Monkey]

And before you know it, it’s taking a little bit more desire to even put it on… And then eventually it just feels like too much effort and it sits there on the shelf

Same story for every VR headset ever

Right. When a gadget becomes a chore it has failed badly. You have to be wanting to use it all the time.

 

[Abazigal]

You will say that a virtual 10 foot 2D screen makes Vision REVOLUTIONARY?

Okay, then. I guess your comment stands on its own merit. I don’t see how much more blatant your message could be.

It's a 10-ft screen that I can pack in a bag and bring on a plane or overseas to a hotel with me. It's a 10-ft display that I don't need to perch on a desk and it's a 10-ft screen that remains useful even when it isn't hooked up to a Mac.

I certainly would not be able to do the same with external display like the studio display (though I know MKBHD famously brought his iMac Pro along with him on event shoots so he could edit in his hotel room).

And to circle back to what I was saying earlier, wouldn’t you expect the unique nature of Vision to be focused on 3D applications that are not encumbered by a flat, 2D screen, whether virtual or not?

Perhaps if one does exist some day (I admit I am not really keeping track of what apps are available on it). But then again, if I go back to my experience with my iPad, what brings me back to it every day are the simple stuff like being able to mirror my iPad screen to the classroom projector via an Apple TV, or annotate on pdf documents in Notability, or simply being able to play "Slay the Spire" on the sofa. Simple stuff, but it works, and it has worked consistently and reliably for the last 10+ years, and I feel that's what keeps a user on a platform ultimately.

With my Apple Watch, one indispensable feature is Apple Pay. Again, the little things that work reliably in the background, which I use multiple times a day, and that have become an indispensable part of my daily routine. It's not multi-orgasmic inducing, and it doesn't need to be.

Like maybe there's a 3D application that makes for a cool demo, but I don't think I am not going to want to look at the 3D cross-section of a car all day, much less every day. At the end of the day, once the shine of the AVP has worn off, what will bring me back to it are the little conveniences that have come to form an indispensable part of my daily workflow, and you get so used to it that you can't imagine working any other way. Stuff like being able to project a giant screen from my MBA since I have neither the space nor the desire to place a larger monitor on my desk. I currently have a 15" portable monitor which I can set up, and then keep when I need more desk space for say, marking assignments, and for my use case at least, it's not difficult to see how the AVP could become a natural extension of my desire for the benefit of an external display without the drawback of having to physically manage one.

Maybe there is some angle I am not seeing, like the weight possibly being a concern if I were to wear it for extended periods of time, but I guess my point is not to be too quick to discount the "little things". And to try and answer your point, maybe it's not meeting your definition of "unique" or "revolutionary" and maybe it just doesn't have to be, and it can still be a great product even if it doesn't live up to those benchmarks.

 

[doelcm82]

And before you know it, it’s taking a little bit more desire to even put it on… And then eventually it just feels like too much effort and it sits there on the shelf

Same story for every VR headset ever

I'm sorry you aren't happy with your Vision Pro, but the new hasn't worn off for me yet.

I know what you're trying to say. I bought half a dozen PDAs thinking the latest one with all the newest features would finally help me get my life in order, but they all ended up in a drawer. Then came the iPhone, and it finally had that "magical" combination of features (which is amazing to me now, seeing how limited it was at the time). It was the calendar and the address book and the photo library that I would actually use daily. And it became more indispensable as the years went on and new versions/features appeared.

And that's part of the special sauce the Vision Pro offers. When I put it on, I don't do it to read email. But If I'm looking at spatial photos and I get a notification that there's a new email, I can deal with it right there. If I decide to browse the web, all my bookmarks are all there.

That's been the special sauce with the iPhone and iPad and Apple Watch also. Everything is there. Automatically.

When I used the Quest 3, I hated that I'd have to take it off to deal with a text on my iPhone. You can barely read an iPhone screen on the Quest 3 if you have the brightness set to a certain level, but it's a pain to work that way. It's easier to read the iPhone screen on the Vision Pro, but even better, I can deal with the text inside Vision OS.

My Quest 3 I only put on for a few seconds every day to log in and switch to the account the kids use. They use it every day, though.