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I’m sorry the situation in the UK sounds rather dire. But from the situation you’re describing, how is it possible for people to own anything? I hope you can petition your lawmakers for some form of change that allows citizens a greater range of options for self defense and securing of property.

I may be wrong, but based on some conversations I’ve had, I’ve gotten the impression that violent criminals can somehow potentially face lesser penalties than a person employing weapons (of any kind even common household objects) to defend themselves. I’m not really sure how that works, or if that is actually the case, but apparently the system must be somehow unbalanced in favor of criminals for this to be the epidemic you describe.

It’s up to citizens to petition their lawmakers to change the laws to restore the equilibrium. I know that’s often easier said than done. I hope it can be done, because it’s untenable that criminals basically dictate what you can and can’t own with your hard earned money.

In the US many homes have garages. Many homes have alarm systems and means of defending property and laws that allow for that. So there could be a robust market here and Apple could potentially be quite busy filling orders in the US for quite some time before they even think of expanding to the UK. I don’t know that they will be able to have massive supply for a couple of years. Meanwhile, things could very well turn around in the UK. I’d imagine even now there are many parts of the UK where people are safe and secure. If not, then the UK has more important concerns than whether or not Apple sells cars.

FWIW I have friends here on the forum who live in the UK and they happily own iPhones and expensive Android phones and haven’t expressed any concerns that crime rates would prevent them from continuing to enjoy such products.
Sure i take your point however in the more affluent parts of London, there’s been large scale robbery and theft from mansions etc. and just Google iPhone street theft london or whatever I’m sure there’ll be lots of examples. And you’re right in the U.K. yiu have to be careful with defence as you’ll be just as liable as the criminal, regardless of whether they illegally enter your home or not. Again google will show many cases where the homeowner has been charged for violence against the criminal who’s entered the home. London’s a very strange place right now. Behind the tourist facade it has changed radically.
 
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Design and a business model that doesn't rely on actually selling cars.

I have this gut feeling that owning an electric car will end up being the "blackberry" moment for the auto-industry - a near-term phenomenon that turns out to not be representative of the future. I still am of the opinion that the future of cars is autonomous ride-sharing. People won't own cars; they will share them and Apple would certainly have size necessary to form that critical mass of users needed for a ride-sharing car network.

The more I think about it, the more the economics of owning a car becomes less appealing over time, much less everyone owning their own self-driving car. It's parked in a carpark 90% of the time, and the fewer cars on the road, the less congestion, the less space need to be used for carparks and supporting infrastructure, and more space for everything else.

For all the technological improvements that cars have had over the year, the primary design hasn't really changed. I think there is potential for a company like Apple to rethink the entire car experience using their expertise in software and manufacturing, not unlike what the iPhone did for the smartphone industry.

For instance, a car could be reimagined as a room on wheels, which can be customised to whatever layout you want, since you no longer need a driver in front. Apple also has the necessary ecosystem and infrastructure in place, from Apple Pay, to maps, to Siri, to communications to even their own entertainment bundle.

It's all about skating to where the puck will be, and I don't think the future is simply everyone owning an electric car.
I used to think the same way.

I bought a Tesla and was very, very excited for the autonomous driving future.

I am presently using "full self driving." It is clearly slower than a human when it comes to making decisions. It's decisiveness is awful. You can tell the car is kind of "thinking" whether it can get into the next lane. Way too slow. It's great on a lazy highway, but terrible when it has to make decisions quickly in traffic. Not even worth using in those situations.

Sure, that will be improved---not anytime soon, however. We're years away.
 
What can Apple contribute to the auto space that is better than Tesla, Jaguar, Volvo, Ford, Audi, Porsche and GM (present leaders in electric vehicles)?

What do those cars lack (please don't say taste---that's too subjective)?

Looking back... What can Apple contribute to the cellular phone space that is better than Motorola, Ericsson, Nokia, Siemens, LG, Sony, Samsung, Lucent, IBM, Sanyo, Blackberry, HTC, Palm, Toshiba, Kyocera, etc?
 
Another story today said Apple won't be partnering with an existing car manufacturer on this. Which means they need to build one (or likely several) car plants, doesn't it? And soon. You can't hide those.
Hyundai Motors was one they were talking to... they also have a nice, new, greenfield EV platform... as I recall Hyundai Motors has a current market cap of around $42 billion. Given valuations of folks like Tesla (though that's not a good reflection of reality) even if AAPL paid a premium of 50% (say $60 billion... an "easy" amount to swallow) the market could value the acquisition at north of $150 billion easily (again based on current appetite for stand alone EV firms).

Net... if Apple were really serious about getting into the market it very well would make sense to grab Hyundai... if you're going to get into this business, get in bold and strong.
 
Sure i take your point however in the more affluent parts of London, there’s been large scale robbery and theft from mansions etc. and just Google iPhone street theft london or whatever I’m sure there’ll be lots of examples. And you’re right in the U.K. yiu have to be careful with defence as you’ll be just as liable as the criminal, regardless of whether they illegally enter your home or not. Again google will show many cases where the homeowner has been charged for violence against the criminal who’s entered the home. London’s a very strange place right now. Behind the tourist facade it has changed radically.
That’s awful. I’m sorry to hear it. I hope people can push for change.
 
I used to think the same way.

I bought a Tesla and was very, very excited for the autonomous driving future.

I am presently using "full self driving." It is clearly slower than a human when it comes to making decisions. It's decisiveness is awful. You can tell the car is kind of "thinking" whether it can get into the next lane. Way too slow. It's great on a lazy highway, but terrible when it has to make decisions quickly in traffic. Not even worth using in those situations.

Sure, that will be improved---not anytime soon, however. We're years away.
You're not using FSD though. You're using Autopilot/Navigate on Autopilot, so the path planning/lane changes runs off the old stack which is hard coded. The FSD stack is much more decisive and human like. Once they start using the FSD stack on highway driving, Autopilot will be much better. That happens sometime this year. Next year the neural nets should be handling the path planning which will further improve highway driving.
 
Apple is perhaps a bit late to the electric car game.
But they have proven before that being first is not as important as doing things right.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt. And look forward to seeing their vision materialize. The Apple Car could be "a new iPhone" or a new "Apple speaker".
 
Hyundai Motors was one they were talking to... they also have a nice, new, greenfield EV platform... as I recall Hyundai Motors has a current market cap of around $42 billion. Given valuations of folks like Tesla (though that's not a good reflection of reality) even if AAPL paid a premium of 50% (say $60 billion... an "easy" amount to swallow) the market could value the acquisition at north of $150 billion easily (again based on current appetite for stand alone EV firms).

Net... if Apple were really serious about getting into the market it very well would make sense to grab Hyundai... if you're going to get into this business, get in bold and strong.

Hyundai has one of the best chances at navigating the transition from ICE to EV without going under. They won't be vulnerable enough for Apple to buy. Plus, Hyundai just bought Boston Dynamics so that the South Korea has some possible military tech to fend off North Korea. For that reason alone I doubt the SK government would allow Apple to buy Hyundai. Apple can just wait 3-5 years for BMW or Honda to get into trouble. Could probably also pick up Ford if they want an American manufacturer, which would give them access to SK Innovation US battery factory.
 
I want a charging mat for the car please. No fiddling with connectors.
And will it have any steering wheel at all?
 
Wasn't he in charge of Adobe Flash before joining Apple? That's similar to car development.

Eye roll...
Yep, that's him. According to Wikipedia, "At Macromedia, Lynch led the Dreamweaver HTML authoring tool and introduced Flash to enable multimedia on the web, eventually reaching over 1 billion people." and "During his time at Adobe, Lynch was a staunch advocate of Flash"

I wonder if he is going to insist that Apple car have as many bugs and lack of performance. Well, you know, so that it is easy to use and available to everyone. I think that was the excuse for Flash. Or maybe it was just poor coding. Either way it does not bode well for the Apple car, IMO.
 
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Apple VP of technology Kevin Lynch is taking over the Apple Car project and will be replacing Doug Field, who is moving to Ford, reports Bloomberg.

Apple-car-wheel-icon-feature-blue.jpg

Lynch first joined the Apple Car team in July, with reports suggesting he had been called on to help lead Apple Car development. Now that Field has left the company, Lynch will be taking over his role and will be in charge of the Apple Car. Lynch will oversee hardware engineering and work on self-driving car sensors.

Known for his work on the Apple Watch, Lynch has been at Apple since 2013, and before that, he worked at Adobe and helped create Adobe's Creative Cloud platform. In addition to working on the Apple Car, Lynch is expected to continue to be involved with the Apple Watch and Apple's health initiatives.

Apple Car leadership has undergone several changes over the course of the last several years, which has caused development issues and internal strife. According to Bloomberg, the departure of former Apple Car leader Doug Field has been seen as a sign that the Apple Car isn't coming in the near future, with product development still in the early stages.Ford on Tuesday announced that it hired Field to work on AI, software, and hardware projects. Field had been at Apple since 2018, and prior to that, he worked at Tesla and oversaw the production of the Model 3.

Rumors have suggested that we're not going to see an Apple Car until the mid to late 2020s at the earliest, and it's not clear how the most recent leadership changes might impact that launch timeline.

Article Link: Apple Watch Chief Kevin Lynch Now Leading Apple Car Efforts
If Steve was still alive he would be like: "The problem with cars is that you usually have them for 5 to 10 years, which means the computer inside them is old and slow after a few years, so just remove the "car-PC" and slap on an iPad with a Car-app. That way you always have all apps, updates and can change the hardware after 7 years. (the autopilot etc can still be run on a "CAR-PC", because safetywise there's no way around this)"
41F0D9AC-1379-48C2-B9D9-96D23112BB59.jpeg
 
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If Steve was still alive he would be like: "The problem with cars is that you usually have them for 5 to 10 years, which means the computer inside them is old and slow after a few years, so just remove the "car-PC" and slap on an iPad with a Car-app. That way you always have all apps, updates and can change the hardware after 7 years. (the autopilot etc can still be run on a "CAR-PC", because safetywise there's no way around this)"View attachment 1829248
I think that's a very smart take.
 
You're not using FSD though. You're using Autopilot/Navigate on Autopilot, so the path planning/lane changes runs off the old stack which is hard coded. The FSD stack is much more decisive and human like. Once they start using the FSD stack on highway driving, Autopilot will be much better. That happens sometime this year. Next year the neural nets should be handling the path planning which will further improve highway driving.
No, I am using FSD ($199 per month and this is my last month).

I am specifically talking auto lane change. THat's not available with base AP. It's terrible in moderate to fast traffic. I just take over and do it manually.
 
No, I am using FSD ($199 per month and this is my last month).

I am specifically talking auto lane change. THat's not available with base AP. It's terrible in moderate to fast traffic. I just take over and do it manually.
Yeah the other person is more technically correct. The feature you are using under the FSD umbrella is using the old stack for NoA. It is separate from the City Streets stack and is more conservative in lane changes and other manuvers.
 
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Yeah the other person is more technically correct. The feature you are using under the FSD umbrella is using the old stack for NoA. It is separate from the City Streets stack and is more conservative in lane changes and other manuvers.
Listen, I am using the FSD. There is a BETA of FSD with AutoSteer on city streets---Beta 9. Few people have that. From what I have seen on YouTube, it is troublesome.

Bottom line:
  • Regular AP is great (comes with every Tesla).
  • FSD Presently ($10K upgrade or $199 per month): Not great. Hesitant. Slow.
  • Beta 9 AutoSteer on City Streets: Very Beta and in limited release.
There are many years before we get to competent and fast autonomous vehicles.

It's fine to disagree, but I am going by my personal experience owning a 2021 Tesla with FSD capabilities---I don't think there is a more advanced autonomous system out there.
 
Listen, I am using the FSD. There is a BETA of FSD with AutoSteer on city streets---Beta 9. Few people have that. From what I have seen on YouTube, it is troublesome.

Bottom line:
  • Regular AP is great (comes with every Tesla).
  • FSD Presently ($10K upgrade or $199 per month): Not great. Hesitant. Slow.
  • Beta 9 AutoSteer on City Streets: Very Beta and in limited release.
There are many years before we get to competent and fast autonomous vehicles.

It's fine to disagree, but I am going by my personal experience owning a 2021 Tesla with FSD capabilities---I don't think there is a more advanced autonomous system out there.
FSD includes a bunch of features. The one you are complaining about is called Navigate on Autopilot (which includes auto lane changes). All in all I am agreeing that it is very hesitant, and tends to make off lane change decisions. NoA isn't using the new perception stack that City Streets is using. That is why in every video that has shown "FSD Beta" when they get on a highway the visualization reverts to what everyone else is currently using. It should get better when they use the City Streets stack for the highway.

If anything the newer owners should be upset that Tesla listened to folk griping about Autopilot costs (anyone else remember Enhanced AutoPilot?) stripping all the features out of the original package and charging an additional 5 grand (EAP used to be 5 and you got everything except traffic light and stop sign control).
C053F1C0-CCCF-4091-B7D2-06BC2F4CF047.jpeg

Including photo of the AP screen for reference. The only thing here that is FSD is the visualization preview.
 
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FSD includes a bunch of features. The one you are complaining about is called Navigate on Autopilot (which includes auto lane changes). All in all I am agreeing that it is very hesitant, and tends to make off lane change decisions. NoA isn't using the new perception stack that City Streets is using. That is why in every video that has shown "FSD Beta" when they get on a highway the visualization reverts to what everyone else is currently using. It should get better when they use the City Streets stack for the highway.

If anything the newer owners should be upset that Tesla listened to folk griping about Autopilot costs (anyone else remember Enhanced AutoPilot?) stripping all the features out of the original package and charging an additional 5 grand (EAP used to be 5 and you got everything except traffic light and stop sign control).
View attachment 1829650
Including photo of the AP screen for reference. The only thing here that is FSD is the visualization preview.
If I could have purchased it outright for $5K, I would have done it. $10K is way too high for what you get right now and I'm not dropping $10,000.00 based on promises from Elon or what you suggest about City Streets. Would like to be wrong about that and if so, I might spend the coin.
 
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