Apple Watch vs Rolex

[Thai]

Swiss made or high end mechanical Watches usually are well-crafted time pieces that will last for generations or heirlooms to be passed down.

While true to some extent, if you google a certain Swiss brand, then you will that there can be many headaches. For example, google "Tag and Crown issues". From last i heard, Tag REFUSES to fix a design/manufacturing defect that is widespread and basically affects most Tags.

From link above i posted on Rolex 3135 review, you can see that the 10 year service interval is impossible when the post for which the heavy rotor rotates is too weak and over time causes damage to other components. But the marketing of 10 years service intervals makes Rolex very attractive to non-watch fanatics!

Or go to Omega forums and ask about inability for (formerly) prized co-axial caliber 2500 to restart or sticky date problem on its 8500 (suffer personally) that apparently can't be fixed in my case after 2 visits to factory!

I can go on and on. I am still a fanatic for watches...but not everything is rosy on the other side of the fence!
[doublepost=1494870995][/doublepost]

On a high end watch, you want to get it serviced by time, even if it is keeping time. The reason is, you want to service it BEFORE there is damage. The more damage, the harder/longer it is to repair.

And the more costly!!! Repair of a damaged Rolex movements can run into the THOUSANDS if left unchecked.

 

[BarracksSi]

On any mechanical watch, you want to get it serviced by time, even if it is keeping time. The reason is, you want to service it BEFORE there is damage. The more damage, the harder/longer it is to repair.

FIFY.

(point being, there's no reason that a mechanical watch must be "high end".. nor is there any reason that "high end" watches must be mechanical...)

 

[JT2002TJ]

FIFY.

(point being, there's no reason that a mechanical watch must be "high end".. nor is there any reason that "high end" watches must be mechanical...)

The reason I say High end, is because I have a $75 Invicta that serves me well (looks like a 5 digit Submariner), since I only wear my Rolex on special occasions. At $75, I do not see myself servicing the watch (at a cost much more than the value of the watch). This will be a disposable mechanical watch, wear it until it dies.

 

[BarracksSi]

The reason I say High end, is because I have a $75 Invicta that serves me well (looks like a 5 digit Submariner), since I only wear my Rolex on special occasions. At $75, I do not see myself servicing the watch (at a cost much more than the value of the watch). This will be a disposable mechanical watch, wear it until it dies.

Right, but the point you made is, a mechanical watch will damage itself over time, which is true no matter how cheap the watch is.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Right, but the point you made is, a mechanical watch will damage itself over time, which is true no matter how cheap the watch is.

Correct.

 

[richard371]

I had this happen to a sub years ago running fast. All it needed was to be degaussed which any watchmaker should be able to do. They don't need to open the watch and it only takes a few seconds.

It depends on your tolerance for what it should do. My father had an Omega Deville from 1960's. Running? Yes. Does he have to wind everyday? Yes, because of worn out barrel and lack of oil. Did it keep time? Depending on whether if it is accurate within several MINUTES a day is OK or not. My father had a job that was not particularly strict on being punctual...so for him it was OK to wind it everyday and adjust the minute hand daily.

My Rolex YM Platy i noted above was still running at time of service (4 yrs after purchase)...but it was like 20+ seconds FAST every 24 hours...no matter which sides it was placed on at night. The date mechanism was sticky. Was it still working? Sure. But for me, it was not working as advertised.

 

[Thai]

I had this happen to a sub years ago running fast. All it needed was to be degaussed which any watchmaker should be able to do. They don't need to open the watch and it only takes a few seconds.

While maybe true, the problem was that the increased rate was gradual, not suddenly one day it was fast. Second issue was that the date wheel was acting funny. It eventually stopped turning with the crown. And i take good care of my Rolex too. Oh well, maybe i just have bad luck.

But, like the link i posted above regarding Rolex Caliber 3135, it has inherent weakness(es) that can be a huge problem if not serviced regularly.

 

[Thai]

Not sure if everyone knows this...but COSC certification ONLY is good for the 1st year of ownership. But if a watch sits there for a year or two in the showroom (which can happen with luxury watches!), then that COSC certification is about as useful as the toilet paper i used this morning.

 

[determined09]

I would get the Rolex

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Not sure if everyone knows this...but COSC certification ONLY is good for the 1st year of ownership. But if a watch sits there for a year or two in the showroom (which can happen with luxury watches!), then that COSC certification is about as useful as the toilet paper i used this morning.

A banned user with nick "Thai" stood corrected providing this same false information in Watchuseek Forum in 2010.
The COSC Certification is valid for the life of the movement.
Here you go.

 

[Thai]

A banned user with nick "Thai" stood corrected providing this same false information in Watchuseek Forum in 2010.
The COSC Certification is valid for the life of the movement.
Here you go.

The cert is for when the movement was tested at COSC factory. True. You can make an argument with OEM that your watch does not fall within COSC certification within first year or so and they will adjust it for your for FREE. My brother did that on his Rolex. BUT, you cannot make the same argument...say a year or so after warranty expires.

OK, so, you're telling me that you can get Omega to adjust your Omega for FREE after warranty expires because it is +10 seconds fast? Good luck with that.

 

[Thai]

Good reading: http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/accuracy.shtml

"A chronometer certificate is not a guarantee of future accuracy. Watch movements that have been certified can get out of adjustment and perform poorly. Movements that were not certified may still exceed the COSC standards--the manufacturer may simply have simply chosen to bypass the expense of the certification process."

The certification is for the movement being tested in a lab OUTSIDE of its case. Once the movement goes back to Rolex/Omega/Tag, then it is put into the case. Some OEMs (Rolex and Omega for example) re-adjust the movement AFTER it gets back from COSC and after it has been assembled into the case. Others (such as lower cost COSC watches) are not adjusted once they get back to factory for assembly into the case...so, therefore, the certification is basically pure marketing to the consumer...and guarantees nothing.

So, you're right that it is not even one year!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

The cert is for when the movement was tested at COSC factory. True. You can make an argument with OEM that your watch does not fall within COSC certification within first year or so and they will adjust it for your for FREE. My brother did that on his Rolex. BUT, you cannot make the same argument...say a year or so after warranty expires.

OK, so, you're telling me that you can get Omega to adjust your Omega for FREE after warranty expires because it is +10 seconds fast? Good luck with that.

I am telling you to read the relevant thread in Watchuseek.
I would not be surprised if it seemed familiar to you.
The essence of the same question raised by a banned user "Thai" in Watchuseek Forum:

"I don't have my warranty card, but i believe that COSC warranty is only for ONE YEAR from the date of purchase of a new watch."
(by Thai)

"First things first... There is no such thing as a COSC Warranty... Its a Certification. I have COSC Certificates for about 5 of my Chronometers and not one of them says anything like 'Valid until...' or anything else to that effect. This Certification is valid for the life of the movement so certified. If at some time it drifts out of spec then it can be regulated back into spec."
(by ddata)

"You know...i stand corrected. I swear that i read that somewhere, but i can't find any info on that on my rolex. My Omega HV was bought via closeout sale and did not have the cards that came with it.
Anyway, sorry about the bad info...."
(by Thai)

"- How long is a chronometer title valid ?
The title of chronometer can be compared to a diploma from a specialized school. At a given time of his life, a candidate has proven, thanks to an exam, that he had met with the performances criteria providing him with that title.
In the same way as for a graduate, this title has been granted to him for his entire life, although his performances may slightly get altered within the years."
(by Thai)

"Thank you.
That supports exactly what I was saying".
(by ddata)

No comment.

 

[Thai]

A banned user with nick "Thai" stood corrected providing this same false information in Watchuseek Forum in 2010.
The COSC Certification is valid for the life of the movement.
Here you go.

And yet you still think that COSC means something for the life of the movement....

Difference b/w it and a "diploma" is that diploma is lasting...COSC is not.

So, the same question that you're avoiding...IF your watch falls out of COSC beyond warranty, then will your watch manufacturer re-adjust it for free? No.

Explain to me how a COSC cert is valid for the LIFE OF THE MOVEMENT.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

And yet you still think that COSC means something for the life of the movement....

Difference b/w it and a "diploma" is that diploma is lasting...COSC is not.

So, the same question that you're avoiding...IF your watch falls out of COSC beyond warranty, then will your watch manufacturer re-adjust it for free? No.

Explain to me how a COSC cert is valid for the LIFE OF THE MOVEMENT.

All the answers are in the Watchuseek thread mentioned above a number of times.
Don't be afraid to read it and refresh your memory.

 

[Thai]

All the answers are in the Watchuseek thread mentioned above a number of times.
Don't be afraid to read it and refresh your memory.

LOL...ok...didn't think that you could back it up. Thanks.

BTW, any mechanical movement can be brought under COSC specs...it is just a matter of opening up your wallet. And outside of warranty on a "COSC-watch", you need to open up your wallet as well. There is no "lifetime" anything.

So, how different is COSC vs. a top grade ETA movement? And how long is this "guarantee"? LOL

 

[Ulenspiegel]

LOL...ok...didn't think that you could back it up. Thanks.

BTW, any mechanical movement can be brought under COSC specs...it is just a matter of opening up your wallet. And outside of warranty on a "COSC-watch", you need to open up your wallet as well. There is no "lifetime" anything.

So, how different is COSC vs. a top grade ETA movement? And how long is this "guarantee"? LOL

We can continue for eternity.
There is no need "to back" anything up as it has already been done in the quoted Forum.
Once again, to face you with the words familiar to you from the Watchuseek Forum:

"You know...i stand corrected. I swear that i read that (i.e. "COSC warranty is only for ONE YEAR") somewhere, but i can't find any info on that on my rolex. My Omega HV was bought via closeout sale and did not have the cards that came with it.
Anyway, sorry about the bad info...."
(by Thai)

"- How long is a chronometer title valid ?
The title of chronometer can be compared to a diploma from a specialized school. At a given time of his life, a candidate has proven, thanks to an exam, that he had met with the performances criteria providing him with that title.
In the same way as for a graduate, this title has been granted to him for his entire life, although his performances may slightly get altered within the years."
(by Thai)

 

[Thai]

We can continue for eternity.

As expected, you fail to answer. LOL A certificate that is useless.

In other news: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...g-englewood-armed-robbery-20170517-story.html

"According to the watch press, this year’s Baselworld in Switzerland was a graveyard. “The Baselworld show, ended March 30, was grim,” said Joe Thompson in Watchtime Magazine, an enthusiast publication. In short, a once might industry is contracting at an alarming rate.

A further harbinger of death is far simpler to understand. Swiss exports have fallen for the third year in a row. This hasn’t happened since 1930, in the depths of the Depression.

Experts attribute the fall to a few factors. First, American imports have fallen 28% as more and more people abandon watches or settle on Apple Watches. Overproduction and overpricing are forcing watches into the gray market and younger people don’t want to buy watches at official sellers, instead choosing to go online.

“If, however, 2017 turns out to be one of those almost unheard of back-to-back-to-back slowdowns, then the Swiss watch industry will need painful medicine to cure what ails it,” said Thompson. That medicine comes in the form of closures, lay-offs, and a wholesale change in the way watches are made and sold. And it’s long overdue."

 

[Ulenspiegel]

As expected, you fail to answer. LOL A certificate that is useless.

In other news: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...g-englewood-armed-robbery-20170517-story.html

"According to the watch press, this year’s Baselworld in Switzerland was a graveyard. “The Baselworld show, ended March 30, was grim,” said Joe Thompson in Watchtime Magazine, an enthusiast publication. In short, a once might industry is contracting at an alarming rate.

A further harbinger of death is far simpler to understand. Swiss exports have fallen for the third year in a row. This hasn’t happened since 1930, in the depths of the Depression.

Experts attribute the fall to a few factors. First, American imports have fallen 28% as more and more people abandon watches or settle on Apple Watches. Overproduction and overpricing are forcing watches into the gray market and younger people don’t want to buy watches at official sellers, instead choosing to go online.

“If, however, 2017 turns out to be one of those almost unheard of back-to-back-to-back slowdowns, then the Swiss watch industry will need painful medicine to cure what ails it,” said Thompson. That medicine comes in the form of closures, lay-offs, and a wholesale change in the way watches are made and sold. And it’s long overdue."

How long shall I hold a mirror to your face?
How long will you keep ignoring exactly the same Watchuseek Forum conversation started by a certain banned user named Thai?

 

[Thai]

How long shall I hold a mirror to your face?
How long will you keep ignoring exactly the same Watchuseek Forum conversation started by a certain banned user named Thai?

Wow...someone got banned?! Ooooohhhhh...maybe search why that person got banned first.

Again, to emphasize, COSC cert is USELESS. It is marketing. It does not mean much as the watch gets cased at factory and definitely as it ages with wear & tear. The newer standards by Rolex and Omega are great because they adjust them AFTER they are cased...at least, that means something to the customer. That COSC cert means nothing...and OEMs won't give a rat's ass about it after standard warranty expires. Sorry dude. It's OK to keep focusing on me...but that still does not change the fact that COSC cert is useless and pure marketing.

Feel free to use the mirror on yourself or anyone else, but it won't help make your point dude.

And as the article above shown, Swiss is hurting BADLY from Apple Watch. My household reflects this. YMMV. COSC certification won't save Swiss!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Wow...someone got banned?! Ooooohhhhh...maybe search why that person got banned first.

Again, to emphasize, COSC cert is USELESS. It is marketing. It does not mean much as the watch gets cased at factory and definitely as it ages with wear & tear. The newer standards by Rolex and Omega are great because they adjust them AFTER they are cased...at least, that means something to the customer. That COSC cert means nothing...and OEMs won't give a rat's ass about it after standard warranty expires. Sorry dude. It's OK to keep focusing on me...but that still does not change the fact that COSC cert is useless and pure marketing.

Feel free to use the mirror on yourself or anyone else, but it won't help make your point dude.

And as the article above shown, Swiss is hurting BADLY from Apple Watch. My household reflects this. YMMV. COSC certification won't save Swiss!

You have to search for "dudes" in a different circle of acquaintances.
This is your mirror shown to you numerous times:

"You know...i stand corrected. I swear that i read that (i.e. "COSC warranty is only for ONE YEAR") somewhere, but i can't find any info on that on my rolex. My Omega HV was bought via closeout sale and did not have the cards that came with it.
Anyway, sorry about the bad info...." (SIC!)

(by Thai, Watchuseek Forum, "Running Out of COSC - what would you do?", October 3rd, 2010, post #18)

"- How long is a chronometer title valid ?
The title of chronometer can be compared to a diploma from a specialized school. At a given time of his life, a candidate has proven, thanks to an exam, that he had met with the performances criteria providing him with that title.
In the same way as for a graduate, this title has been granted to him for his entire life, although his performances may slightly get altered within the years."

(by Thai, Watchuseek Forum, "Running Out of COSC - what would you do?", October 3rd, 2010, post #19)

Look at yourself and get acquainted with your own views.

 

[Thai]

I stand corrected about the one year. It is not even one year. Lol. It's not even a warranty! My bad. It's even worst than what I wrote!

Read up on how COSC does its testings. No difference than what ETA does with its top movement.

COSC is not diploma. Sorry. No matter how much you repost it. It is not. Ask a watchmaker what it means when he charges $300-500 to service your watch!! Lol.

With diploma, you always have the basic knowledge and from there you grow. COSC is not like that. There is no advancement. There is just rapid decline in "knowledge" just right after achieving it. it is not retained knowledge. And every 3-5 years (for most quality mechanicals) or less, you need to re-train that "knowledge" at your own cost.

Get it now dude (or dudes given Relentless Power)? You overpaid for a little tag!! Stop trying to rationalized a marketing scheme!

 

[Ulenspiegel]

I stand corrected about the one year. It is not even one year. Lol. It's not even a warranty! My bad. It's even worst than what I wrote!

Read up on how COSC does its testings. No difference than what ETA does with its top movement.

COSC is not diploma. Sorry. No matter how much you repost it. It is not. Ask a watchmaker what it means when he charges $300-500 to service your watch!! Lol.

With diploma, you always have the basic knowledge and from there you grow. COSC is not like that. There is no advancement. There is just rapid decline in "knowledge" just right after achieving it. it is not retained knowledge. And every 3-5 years (for most quality mechanicals) or less, you need to re-train that "knowledge" at your own cost.

Get it now dude (or dudes given Relentless Power)? You overpaid for a little tag!! Stop trying to rationalized a marketing scheme!

It might've escaped your attention for the third time that I've been citing your own words.

 

[Thai]

It might've escaped your attention for the third time that I've been citing your own words.

And for the 4th (5th? 6th?) time, you missed my point...heck you did not even miss the boat, you miss the freaking highway exit to the dock!

 

[KarimLeVallois]

I can see a lot of people 'Unwatching' and turning off notifications for this thread...