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No, I totally get the point, but I am baffled by the logic. People were "throwing money" at things then as now in the hopes of being rewarded. This process is called "investing." How dare they! Where do you put your hard-earned money? In a mattress? In places where you hope to lose it, so you can proudly say you have no greed?

Noting that you completely avoided my point about Google. I suppose I'm seeing why.

Perhaps "investing" is broken. Ever think about that? Our economic system is shattered, and you are defending the behavior that has put us there. That's the entire point Zitron's getting at.

As for your off-topic argument, I ignored it because you are a troll, and I'm uninterested in feeding you further.

Good evening.
 
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Nah, they'll be repurposed as sports facilities for indoor Pickleball courts.
If you're going to regurgitate something Mark Cuban said and pass it off as your own, at least make it something clever he's said... admittedly, that doesn't leave you much to work with.
 
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ChatGPT says:

What if Ed Zitron is completely right?​

If his thesis is correct, I think the likely outcome looks like this:

  • ❌ Standalone AI subscription businesses struggle or consolidate.
  • ❌ Companies building massive AI data centers may lose hundreds of billions.
  • ✅ AI models continue to exist.
  • ✅ Apple continues shipping AI features, but relies heavily on efficient on-device models and selectively uses cloud AI when necessary.
  • ✅ Cloud AI becomes a premium feature for tasks that truly require it.
In other words, Apple is probably one of the companies best positioned if the economics of cloud AI turn out to be worse than expected. It has a profitable hardware business that can absorb AI costs, whereas companies whose entire business depends on selling AI services have much less room for error.

My personal take? Back in the late 90's and early 2000's CPUs reached a state where you couldn't keep increasing the frequency rate due to energy and heat, so they became more efficient by instead making multicore processors.

In the same way AI will eventually get to a point where the energy it consumes it too much so they will have to make more efficient LLM models that can work on less powerful hardware. People running LLMs at home are doing just this thing.

Regardless, when AI hits that point, there will be a massive crash of memory prices when all the AI data centers go bankrupt and stop buying up all the hardware. In the end, it will work out for the better of us all.
 
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My point was: one company has lasted for over 30 years... and another company was gone in less than 3 years.

So this is what I'm asking: 👇

How many of these AI companies will last for 30+ years?

And how many of these AI companies will fizzle out in just a few years?

🤔
You're correct, I misread the initial post and I think you replied before I modified my comment 🙂
 
Interesting insights -- thanks for picking this up, MacRumors. Two observations:

-- It may be that in retrospect, one of the smartest and best things Tim did was to resist the urge to go all-in on AI. The pressure to spend Apple's money to win the AI arms race must have been intense. While staying out of the arms race, Apple is in a strong cash position to use pretty much anyone's AI product as it sees fit. And it can still buy a fully-developed AI product/company if it chooses.

-- This is spot on regarding the Vision Pro. It was simultaneously something that felt like a real leap forward but in a package that virtually no one would want to buy (or even use for long). If Apple can shrink that down to a pair of glasses, or even shrink something that borrows a bit of that, it will really have something. Vision Pro kind of reminds me of the Lisa, which was a beautiful and very advanced computer for its time, but which was the wrong package/price point. It ended up being essentially a proof of concept for the Mac.
 
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People seem to think that the “AI bubble bursting” somehow means “AI goes away.” Stop and think. There was a dot.com bubble. It burst. Some dot.coms died. Others flourished in the aftermath. You are more dependent on dot.coms today than you were before the bubble popped. The pundits who said the internet would not be profitable and would largely go away were completely mistaken.

So, why is that? The companies themselves were overvalued, not the technology or the market. Investors had assumed that those companies were nearly guaranteed future profits. That drove larger investments, which in turn drove larger valuations. Rinse/repeat until investors noticed the returns weren’t materializing as quickly as they expected. Valuations collapsed. The internet did not. The opportunities and the markets were still there. What was left was an enormous amount of infrastructure, software, intellectual property, engineering talent, and business experience. Much of that investment became a sunk cost.

This is one of the things bubbles often do. They finance the rapid build-out of infrastructure far beyond what can be justified by near-term demand. Investors lose money, but assets are left behind that can be used for decades. Railroads, fiber-optic networks, and internet infrastructure all had bubbles. They did not vanish because their investors overpaid for them. They became the foundation on which later companies built profitable businesses.

I expect the AI bubble to follow a similar pattern. Some AI companies will fail. Some valuations will collapse. Some investors will lose fortunes. But the GPUs, hyperscale datacenters, models, algorithms, software, research, and engineers will still exist. None of that disappears just because the stock market reprices the companies that built them. Apple, with its cash reserves, will probably be a beneficiary of the collapse by being able to cherry-pick technology and talent at fire-sale prices.

A bubble is a statement about asset prices. It is not necessarily a statement about the long-term value or viability of the underlying technology.
 
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People seem to think that the “AI bubble bursting” somehow means “AI goes away.” Stop and think. There was a dot.com bubble. It burst. Some dot.coms died. Others flourished in the aftermath. You are more dependent on dot.coms today than you were before the bubble popped. The pundits who said the internet would not be profitable and would largely go away were completely mistaken.

So, why is that? The companies themselves were overvalued, not the technology or the market. Investors had assumed that those companies were nearly guaranteed future profits. That drove larger investments, which in turn drove larger valuations. Rinse/repeat until investors noticed the returns weren’t materializing as quickly as they expected. Valuations collapsed. The internet did not. The opportunities and the markets were still there. What was left was an enormous amount of infrastructure, software, intellectual property, engineering talent, and business experience. Much of that investment became a sunk cost.

This is one of the things bubbles often do. They finance the rapid build-out of infrastructure far beyond what can be justified by near-term demand. Investors lose money, but assets are left behind that can be used for decades. Railroads, fiber-optic networks, and internet infrastructure all had bubbles. They did not vanish because their investors overpaid for them. They became the foundation on which later companies built profitable businesses.

I expect the AI bubble to follow a similar pattern. Some AI companies will fail. Some valuations will collapse. Some investors will lose fortunes. But the GPUs, hyperscale datacenters, models, algorithms, software, research, and engineers will still exist. None of that disappears just because the stock market reprices the companies that built them. Apple, with its cash reserves, will probably be a beneficiary of the collapse by being able to cherry-pick technology and talent at fire-sale prices.

A bubble is a statement about asset prices. It is not necessarily a statement about the long-term value or viability of the underlying technology.
Very well articulated. While it's not guaranteed that things always result in a bubble the size or likeness of the dot-com bubble or the housing debt crisis, many things especially in technology often follow the Gartner hype cycle in some form or another:
0x0.jpg.webp
 
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Very well articulated. While it's not guaranteed that things always result in a bubble the size or likeness of the dot-com bubble or the housing debt crisis, many things especially in technology often follow the Gartner hype cycle in some form or another:

Most recent image from Gartner's IG account related to Agentic AI. They claim:

Agentic AI has reached the Peak of Inflated Expectations, reflecting extraordinary market attention and aggressive adoption intent.

According to Gartner’s Hype Cycle for Agentic AI, the focus is shifting from initial excitement about AI agents to a deeper understanding of how agentic AI technologies are maturing.

747998442_18543381094076077_9101618746687606115_n.jpg
 
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Nice interview!

I think one thing that is still missing to me, and nobody talks about, is that whatever the fate of AI is, hyperscalers will own pretty much all the hardware out there.

On the other hand, I think customer market for computers will not recover after this, we will never see 64G of ram for $120 and prices will never go down.

All together, makes me fear a future where hyperscalers will try to sell us simply terminals under subscription to being able to access the computing power on the Cloud. I hope not, but all is going into that direction.
I had wishful thinking that AI bubble crash would let tons of RAM etc flooding the market, drastically lowering their costs so they became more affordable again. But I think you are right: hyper scalers simply uses those hardware resources they hoard today into something else instead of selling them. It’s a grim picture and the winter for consumer electronics.
 
I get your points but it doesn’t mean AI isn’t going to “burst”.

Dot coms are still around but that bubble burst. I’m sure AI is here to stay but it doesn’t mean it’ll be a smooth ride.
I don't think the AI "bubble" will burst. I do think it will deflate. Anthropic is the preferred and in most cases superior enterprise AI solution. Google has Gemini inserted into most of what they provide and thus they have most consumer needs covered. Grok is a farce, as is Meta AI. They're both selling the compute assets that they have clearly over-invested in.

I question the long term viability of OpenAI. It almost seems like when the music stops, they'll be the ones without a chair.

I honestly don't know if the Apple approach to AI was a conscious strategic decision, some dumb luck, or (probably) both. Apple has a capable, privacy-forward AI at the OS level across their entire ecosystem. They can license anyone and everyone's models if they see fit, all while developing their own. That is a GREAT place to be strategically.
 
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If you don't know, that tells me you don't work in any industry directly involved with building AI(s) or taking advantage of AI(s) in their products and services.

AI existed long before LLMs in the form of machine learning/learning engines and will only continue to evolve. My company has been heavily invested in and utilizing said technology for nearly a decade, always expanding its use as the tech advances, ensuring our products and services are cutting edge, industry leading offerings trusted by every Fortune 500 company, various governments, and countless enterprise-level players around the globe.
I work for a medical imaging AI company. I can tell you without hesitation that the current valuation of general, consumer-facing AI is MASSIVELY overstated. In specific areas like tech and healthcare, the value is immense, and will continue to grow.
 
I don't think the AI "bubble" will burst. I do think it will deflate.
The reminds me of the euphemism of a rocket exploding being described as an unscheduled disassembly. I believe that there is certainly the potential for the AI bubble to 'deflate' at a rate similar to a rocket exploding.
 
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to me, AI is like the dawn of the internet. Even if it’s not profitable, and even if the main driving force behind it goes down (like OpenAI), in some form it is here to stay. It’s too valuable. It’s disruptive technology and whoever can make it stay long term wields great power.
 
False equivalency and janitorial/HVAC doesn't count 😉 Auto plants weren't needed once we outsourced auto manufacturing to other countries. There's no scenario in which we outsource our data centers specifically for US needs to other countries. Data sovereignty rules worldwide are becoming more strict, not less.
Are you this rude and insufferable in real life?
 
How long was Amazon in the red? For how many years did they focus solely on growth?

I think only three AI providers will survive:

OpenAI, Anthropic, and Gemini.

How many active users do they have?
How many would be willing to pay 10–20€ per month if free access were increasingly restricted or eliminated?

All these people are hooked on AI for now, but what about later?

Who wants to go back to Google Search and wade through 10 pages of results?

Don’t forget:
People pay ridiculous prices at Apple for iPhone cases and stuff.
im quite happy I still use the old google search method and don't rely on chatgpt or any other ai apps to do my research or work. My wife on the other hand, she will struggle if they suddenly massively up the costs of subscriptions and its no longer reasonably affordable for her to keep using
 
Who wants to go back to Google Search and wade through 10 pages of results?

Sifting though Google results was better before they had you profiled. Now, thanks to profiling and AI, those 10 pages of results all give you the same answer based on what it thinks you and your national government want to hear.
 
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I honestly think this is the best piece I’ve ever read on MacRumors.

More of this please and less annoying PR stuff for toxic companies like Amazon and Meta.
 
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