Apple Working on 'Improved' Security System for iPhone 8 That Replaces Touch ID With Facial Recognition

[imronburgundy]

I don't know why anyone would prefer Touch ID to facial recognition as long as the face unlock is just as fast and secure (or better as this article suggests).

Gotta think at least some of the negative replies in here are people who trashed Samsung for their face unlock

How will I continue to unlock my phone as I'm pulling it out of my pocket if I now have to hold it up to my face, wait for it to register, then unlock? Not to mention, using it in the dark. If the nighttime solution is to turn on my "selfie light" to see my face while laying in bed, F that.

 

[TheHitman1982]

I Think Ol'Ming needs to lay off the pipe.

 

[DotCom2]

There are many many times throughout the day that I pick up my phone just to see what the time is but I don't want to unlock. Does this mean that every time the phone sees my face even when it's laying flat on my desk it will unlock my phone???
This is worse than Alexa alway listening in!

 

[The Game 161]

There are many many times throughout the day that I pick up my phone just to see what the time is but I don't want to unlock. Does this mean that every time the phone sees my face even when it's laying flat on my desk it will unlock my phone???
This is worse than Alexa alway listening in!

No I imagine you would need to click the home button to activate it to unlock.

Until this is out people need to relax with all the worrying questions.

 

[grobik]

So you’re telling me that someone can just make a plaster mold of my head and use that to unlock my phone?!

 

[DeepIn2U]

So great, now when I put my iPhone on my dash while driving, and I want to change a track or something, I have to position my face so it'll open.

Gee, that's not a driving distraction.

CarPlay & Lock Screen music controls kills the first part of the argument.
Calls (Voice Control - disable Siri if you don't have data), Emails, Messages, Social Media, Maps (should've already been on and disables screen from being locked when in use), etc ALL fall into the "or something" category and thus you're ALREADY a distracted driver just waiting for an accident or causing bodily harm to others (drivers/pedestrians).

This day just gets more and more entertaining. We went from "good thing I skipped the iPhone 6SS (7) for the SUPERcycle upgrade this year!" to "OMG Apple if you get rid of TouchID then you get rid of my business!!"

LMAO ... funny enough that just may occur!
TouchID fully removed in favour of facial recognition = estimated 20% reduced sales/upgrades
^ this assessment reduced by 10% for other factors:

recent IP7 upgrades will not favor early upgrade costs,
those with IPSE prefer slim size await that models' true upgrade,
those with Apple Watch are going to use in tandem for IP8 (or whatever the hell it's called: I say iPhone)

facial recognition will never replace touch id. if this happens its a complete cop-out for them not having it in the display. if there is no touch id in the display it will be yet another ho-hum phone from apple.

nothing else they are doing here is new. they are playing catch up from the last 2 years of android phones.

I agree facial recognition alone cannot replace TouchID or it's potential. TouchID, and the potential to implement heart rate as a way of detecting a user under duress to unlock a phone (security block) is already capable and accurate for the past 3yrs. Normal heart rate can be assessed over a very short time along with other heart measurements/palpatations etc (I don't know the full technical jargon - but I have messed with ECG's for many months at will). One could argue that retina scan could also detect heart rate but at a distant just how accurate would that be for such a security algorhythm?

I don't think this is a 'playing catchup' vs potentially offering choice or moreover screwing around with the leaks! This way they can source them out, eliminate them, move forward.

So how would this facial recognition thing work?
Someone just picks up your phone and shoves it in your face and says "LOOK" and you being unaware and thinking they are just showing you something so you look, and it unlocks your phone and they run off with your phone unlocked and get all your info off it???
I don't get it.
There just be something else that protects from this right?

Think people have far bigger problems if they even let that happen

The majority of BlackBerry users thought the VERY SAME THING (even thought it was a convenience) when BB removed the Lock Screen button from actually immediately locking the device when BB10 launched. Actually they did away with this in BBOS7 when the 9700/9780 launched. That alone in fact had me switching back and forth to iOS from BB!

 

[aevan]

I sometimes see Japanese or Chinese tourists wearing face masks. I bet it will work less well for them. Or women covering their faces.

Well, in the same way TouchID won't work if you wear gloves. It is their choice, I was talking about physical attributes.

 

[62tele]

I have to see it to believe it. It's just hard to imagine using Apple Pay with something as simple and quick as my Touch ID fingerprint.
However, I definitely don't want a finger print scanner on that back of the device. That's just stupid.

 

[kdarling]

How will I continue to unlock my phone as I'm pulling it out of my pocket if I now have to hold it up to my face, wait for it to register, then unlock?

The recognition can be as fast as a fingerprint sensor.

Not to mention, using it in the dark. If the nighttime solution is to turn on my "selfie light" to see my face while laying in bed, F that.

Minus one thousand points for being the hundredth person to have apparently never heard of infrared.

There are many many times throughout the day that I pick up my phone just to see what the time is but I don't want to unlock. Does this mean that every time the phone sees my face even when it's laying flat on my desk it will unlock my phone???

This seems a legitimate concern. However, surely Apple would realize the same thing, don't you think? So they'd likely add a virtual unlock/home button on the screen that has to be pressed as well.

So you’re telling me that someone can just make a plaster mold of my head and use that to unlock my phone?!

Well, there's the rub. It could wait for a blink or other indication of liveness, but that inserts a delay.

If Apple were making such an unlock method though, I can visualize them checking for liveness via something quicker, like say, facial heat signatures.

 

[joejoejoe]

This seems like such a terrible move I have a hard time believing it.

What if you're wearing sunglasses?

What if you have a hat and scarf on?

What if you don't want to look directly at your phone?

What if what if what if?

I think I would have preferred a little bezel with touch ID over this.

 

[DotCom2]

This seems a legitimate concern. However, surely Apple would realize the same thing, don't you think? So they'd likely add a virtual unlock/home button on the screen that has to be pressed as well.

That's the thing though. I don't have to "press" a thing now. I just raise the phone and it shows me the time. So now they would add an un-needed step?

 

[kdarling]

That's the thing though. I don't have to "press" a thing now. I just raise the phone and it shows me the time. So now they would add an un-needed step?

The time would still remain if you didn't press the virtual button.

 

[147798]

On finger print unlock --I could unlock my phone while walking down the street before I had to look at it, or I could unlock my phone without looking at it, and have Siri find me things or place a call.

Facial-recognition-only means I will have to wait X amount of time with my phone stabilized in a certain position in front of my face before it's useable, alerting everyone around me that I'm trying to unlock my phone.

In low light, will it have to shine a light in my face to unlock?? That would be awesome.

So bad.

Fingerprint unlock and mag safe adapters -- Apple, these were brilliant inventions. Truly, why do you have to retire them? The convenience factor was through the roof.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Fingerprint unlock and mag safe adapters -- Apple, these were brilliant inventions. Truly, why do you have to retire them? The convenience factor was through the roof.

Apparently people hate bezels now... so Apple has to remove bezels (and the accompanying buttons) to please people.

Or else we'll see headlines like "Apple loses soooo much market share due to giant old-fashioned bezels..."

 

[KeanosMagicHat]

You really don’ t get it. I will need to be as secure or more secure as touchid for apple to make it bulletproof. If that is not the case and is an easy subject of fraud, even their friends in the business and tech press won’ t be able to help them from losing their reputation. Apple will never put itself in that situation.
[doublepost=1499251018][/doublepost]
Iphone 8 will have touchid, just not in the homebutton, that’s all.

I understand perfectly what you're saying, I just totally disagree with you.

But we're allowed to do that on the forum as long as we're polite to each other.

 

[uhaas]

Always turn the phone off before encountering law enforcement (if possible - e.g. traffic stop). Then the passcode is required to unlock the phone.

Unless you want to start audio recording, or the video camera. Starting audio can help protect your rights, shutting it off kills that.
[doublepost=1499283990][/doublepost]

I think that cops need a warrant to force you to unlock the phone with fingerprints.
Not sure about facial recognition, as the face is kinda ... public.

Nope. Fingerprints is fair game, passcode isn't. That they can't compell and you can plead the 5th.
[doublepost=1499284182][/doublepost]

Couldnt they have taken your thumb and placed it on the home button before?

Not if you lock the phone first.

 

[kdarling]

What if you're wearing sunglasses?
What if you have a hat and scarf on?
What if you don't want to look directly at your phone?
What if what if what if?

What if you're wearing gloves?
What if your fingers are wet?
What if you don't have a hand free and want to look at your phone?
What if what if what if?

 

[uhaas]

This is one hell of a disaster if true. I hate the idea of this and can't see how this could ever be better than Touch ID. For 1) A fingerprint is unique, whereas two faces can be extremely similar (twins) and current systems aren't too great to say the least.

FWIW, I think there's a margin of error and similarity with some false positives with fingerprints as well. But I believe it's acceptable.

 

[DotCom2]

Unless you want to start audio recording, or the video camera. Starting audio can help protect your rights, shutting it off kills that.
[doublepost=1499283990][/doublepost]
Nope. Fingerprints is fair game, passcode isn't. That they can't compell and you can plead the 5th.
[doublepost=1499284182][/doublepost]
Not if you lock the phone first.

Unfortunately this is where problems start and it gets escalated and soon all hell breaks out.
cops are only human and can react badly too, as we have all seen. Just do what the cop tells you to do and live to sue about it later. "LIVE" being the operative word here.

 

[iMi]

What if we use our iPhone in the night and if we have a black skin ? ;(

It will no doubt use infrared cameras. Windows Hello works in complete darkness and with sunglasses on. I don't think skin complexion makes any difference.

I hope they retain TouchID.

Apple got rid of the phone jack because they claim they needed space. If they really plan on doing any type of edge-to-edge display as rumored, then I could see them trying to remove TouchID to gain the much needed real estate.

I really hope they don't. I've used both approaches and TouchID is superior in many ways.

 

[joejoejoe]

What if you're wearing gloves?
What if your fingers are wet?
What if you don't have a hand free and want to look at your phone?
What if what if what if?

you make a fair point. i guess we go to tapping in the code.

i wil maintain that it's likely more people are wearing sunglasses throughout the year than scarves/hats/gloves etc.

i just see this being a much larger problem than the finger problems of today.

 

[Michael Scrip]

you make a fair point. i guess we go to tapping in the code.

i wil maintain that it's likely more people are wearing sunglasses throughout the year than scarves/hats/gloves etc.

i just see this being a much larger problem than the finger problems of today.

And the finger problems are little to none on the scale of problems.

I've never heard a person say... "damn... I wish this TouchID sensor was gone..."

Apple giveth TouchID... Apple taketh away.

Just like headphone jacks, MagSafe, commonly-used USB ports, etc.

 

[ValO]

I understand perfectly what you're saying, I just totally disagree with you.

But we're allowed to do that on the forum as long as we're polite to each other.

Ok, you are right. But if you follow apple and their policy lately, you would know they would not do that. With other features perhaps but with authentication, payments, privacy, i won' t believe they will put their rep on the line , and take risks, like that.

 

[fischersd]

The bug in the ointment will be the banks. If Apple does actually want to use facial recognition for Apple Pay, then they're going to have to get all of the banks that signed up for Apple Pay to agree to its use (or they could withdraw their support). Not a great PR move on their part, certainly, but they're liable for charges made fraudulently.

I haven't seen any vendors/merchants that have removed the contactless payment limit either...if we're ever going to get them to be comfortable enough to agree that this is just as (or more so) secure as chip+pin, there can't be any question as to the integrity of the security mechanism.

Then there's Apple just finally opening up access to the NFC element for 3rd parties. Will it be to have a weaker security standard for use such as keyless entry?

Heh...maybe if Apple could get Homeland Security to accept their facial recognition as a digital signature for authentication for their systems. That would be a big enough "rubber stamp" to sway most companies and agencies. The spies take their security very seriously indeed!

 

[WatchFromAfar]

How will I continue to unlock my phone as I'm pulling it out of my pocket if I now have to hold it up to my face, wait for it to register, then unlock? Not to mention, using it in the dark. If the nighttime solution is to turn on my "selfie light" to see my face while laying in bed, F that.

I don't get all the butt-hurt people are feeling over the removal of TouchID in favor of 3D facial recognition, jeez it's not like Apple aren't releasing two new iPhones with it this September. If it's that important to some people then buy the 7s/7s+ and continue enjoying TouchID.