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Apple Working on 'Improved' Security System for iPhone 8 That Replaces Touch ID With Facial Recognition
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I think this report is BS. No way they're going to put out a phone with no Touch ID; it's one of their growing sources of revenue. IF they have a way of ID'ing you, and only you, by photo recognition that's good enough to be included in the secure enclave, possibly. But a premium, 10th anniversary iPhone with no Touch ID? No way. Just ludicrous.
Honestly, remember that talk on secrecy that leaked (tee hee) from Apple? There's next to zero leaks from Cupertino now; they're more open than they used to be when they have to, but a blog site that thinks it's going to make its money from leaks is in a sketchy business. And what I think we're seeing this year is that the leaks from the factory are near incomprehensible. I suspect they're putting out phony leaks, including some like this that will make these "analysts" look like fools. How much of the recent WWDC was called beforehand? Some vague thoughts in general, some accurate, some not. But the real surprises, the things of real interest, almost nothing. That's the way they want it. And it makes the events much more fun.
Honestly, remember that talk on secrecy that leaked (tee hee) from Apple? There's next to zero leaks from Cupertino now; they're more open than they used to be when they have to, but a blog site that thinks it's going to make its money from leaks is in a sketchy business. And what I think we're seeing this year is that the leaks from the factory are near incomprehensible. I suspect they're putting out phony leaks, including some like this that will make these "analysts" look like fools. How much of the recent WWDC was called beforehand? Some vague thoughts in general, some accurate, some not. But the real surprises, the things of real interest, almost nothing. That's the way they want it. And it makes the events much more fun.
It's only sub-par if people believe the marketing hype (which they probably will)
Think about it logically. Each of our fingerprints are unique to ourselves. In contrast, how many faces do you see in life that are very similar? There's even Doppelganger websites that are becoming popular now. Even the word Doppelganger and the phrase "they look like they were separated at birth" would not be so prevalent if there were not massive similarities with some people's faces.
I have no doubt that there are several people living somewhere in the world right now that close friends, if they met them, would confuse with me.
Yet no-one has the same fingerprints, so really when you look at it, yes facial recognition might offer some level of security, perhaps even a decent level for everyday use, but it will never be as good as the fingerprint which is certainly not sub-par.
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If they are to introduce under screen TouchID with the XS, which at the moment there is a strong possibility they might it wouldn't be admitting failure at all. It would be to offer the user a choice and hopefully capture anyone who held out on the X over concerns that Facial Recognition was not as secure (a number on this thread have claimed they will do just that).
If it makes financial sense at the time, Apple will do it.
One model at a time though and the X is the next one.
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huh? you really don't think there are doppelgänger fingerprints?
you just can't see them is all so you think they're all incredibly unique but i'm pretty sure there are far more similarities between fingerprints than faces.. faces have more differing factors than a fingerprint.
i definitely bet i could find two unique fingerprints that you couldn't tell the difference between but it'd be very hard to find two faces which you couldn't find a distinguishing factor amongst.
I have no words for this post . . . . . seems many years of criminal investigation techniques have had it wrong all along.
Extracts from a website on criminal investigation science,
they're talking about the fact that our ears and noses keep growing etc.
which is why they are second only to DNA as a universally recognised identification technique.
that's a pretty horrible example.
do you think more arrests have come via fingerprints? or via facial recognition?
i mean, come on.
i'm not trying to say fingerprints are bad or useless or whatever.. but how you're trying to downplay or discredit how powerful and important your face is as a means of identification.. is mind-boggling.
please just stop and think about what you're saying for a minute.
right.. but it's for cases where nobody saw the face..
you're generally talking about solving mysteries or something.. if you were clearly seen, there is no mystery.
I don't like this idea , isn't Touch ID good enough or is apple on a mission to ID & data mine every Apple user on the planet ?
I have low confidence in Apple leadership. Tim Cook is a total globalist and an annoying SJW.
I have low confidence in Apple leadership. Tim Cook is a total globalist and an annoying SJW.
If he was a SJW, he would give the stuff away for free. The definition of a SJW is that the person strives for equal outcome, and that the white hetero male is the culprit for all evil ever happened.
I don't see why. If the iPhone stopped making phone calls then consumer reports could get involved but as much as we like it TouchID is just a bonus feature of the phone, and an optional one at that. You don't need it to buy stuff or unlock your phone, it's just a nice convenience.
Consumers may consider it to an integral part of their life now but that's a decision and road they chose for themselves. Apple has zero responsibility to maintain any feature, they made no guarantees, didn't promise it would be around forever. In fact as the iPhone is their product they can add/remove any feature they feel like depending on how they feel that particular morning.
Now, would it be a PR disaster? Probably. Would they loose customers as they look at more secure options? Maybe. But the simple fact is that it's Apple's sword and they have the right to fall on it if they choose to.
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TouchID isn't a source of revenue, ApplePay is the source of revenue. I'm guessing Apple thinks their implementation of 3D facial recognition is so good that it can replace TouchID as a means of accessing ApplePay; thus no loss of revenue.
But hey, I'm just guessing...
Apple is just moving on.
For 4 years there was fp tech to unlock the phone.
Now apple needs a new kind of identification, because it is in the way of tech advancement.
It is just like with the original iphone. Getting rid of a physical keyboard on a phone and offer a more advanced and flexible method, while other manufacturers were trying to perfect the physical keyboard on their smartphones.
We know what happened next...
This year Apple will offer touchid next to the Facial Recognition. Touchid will be on the back or on the power button , for making payments. For unlocking it will be easier to use the Facial Recognition working together in with an on/in screen button.
And in 2 years, touchid is gone entirely, while others will still try to perfect a buggy and slow in-screen fingerprint reader.
History repeats.
For 4 years there was fp tech to unlock the phone.
Now apple needs a new kind of identification, because it is in the way of tech advancement.
It is just like with the original iphone. Getting rid of a physical keyboard on a phone and offer a more advanced and flexible method, while other manufacturers were trying to perfect the physical keyboard on their smartphones.
We know what happened next...
This year Apple will offer touchid next to the Facial Recognition. Touchid will be on the back or on the power button , for making payments. For unlocking it will be easier to use the Facial Recognition working together in with an on/in screen button.
And in 2 years, touchid is gone entirely, while others will still try to perfect a buggy and slow in-screen fingerprint reader.
History repeats.
that's a pretty horrible example.
do you think more arrests have come via fingerprints? or via facial recognition?
i mean, come on.
i'm not trying to say fingerprints are bad or useless or whatever.. but how you're trying to downplay or discredit how powerful and important your face is as a means of identification.. is mind-boggling.
please just stop and think about what you're saying for a minute.
right.. but it's for cases where nobody saw the face..
you're generally talking about solving mysteries or something.. if you were clearly seen, there is no mystery.
We're moving a little off tack here, but I'll go with you on it for this post.
There may be more arrests because people recognise the face, absolutely, but not more convictions.
The vast majority of convictions are secured from factors like fingerprints and DNA evidence.
So, in law, the fingerprint is held to a higher standard than facial recognition.
Completely agree with your thought process. Apple may have arrived at the conclusion that the best way to solve TouchID under the screen is to not put TouchID under the screen. They may have concluded that it'll never work as well as their 3D facial recognition so why waste resources on it.
However I disagree that Apple will offer both facial and touch on the same iPhone, that's completely unApple-like and people would ignore facial and continue using TouchID as it's safe and familiar to them.
If Apple are going to sell 3D Facial recognition to the public they have to appear to be 100% committed to it, they have to convey the message that it's so good you don't need, or will even miss, TouchID. And for those that do there's always the 7s/7s+.
Whilst I do not want this to happen, I'm coming round to the idea that it probably will and it won't be a PR disaster as most customers either don't really prioritise security, or pay lip service to it and just go ahead and purchase anyway.
People like me who absolutely prioritise security are in extreme minority
And this is why it won't be a PR disaster, as Apple will convince the majority of the public that it is as secure with the help of friends in the Business & Tech Press.
I don’ t agree with you on that. It will have a touch area where you can scan your fingerprint for apple en AppStore payments this year,but you won’ t be able to unlock it with touchid, you have to use Facial Recognition for that. They betted on a touchid solution inscreen and failed, so they wanted both this year.
To have people familiarize with the Facial Recognition and to have people trust it, they will start with the possibility of unlocking the iphone with it, but keep payments possible only through touchid. If the community doesn’ t find any security flaws in the Facial Recognition after release(no Facial Recognition gate), apple will issue an small update of iOS in which you can choose Facial Recognition / iris scanning as your default option for payments in the settings.
After that, touchid will only be supported by cheaper or legacy models, newer gens will be Facial Recognition all te way without touchid.
This iphone will be the transitional one.
You really don’ t get it. I will need to be as secure or more secure as touchid for apple to make it bulletproof. If that is not the case and is an easy subject of fraud, even their friends in the business and tech press won’ t be able to help them from losing their reputation. Apple will never put itself in that situation.
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Iphone 8 will have touchid, just not in the homebutton, that’s all.
Funny to read all the comments saying " I can unlock my phone now without looking at it"
And then I say, ok and then what, you have now unlocked your phone and you can magically control it without having to look at it? once you unlock it, the first thing you do is look at it.
Imagine this, skip step 1, unlocking with Touch ID, just look and voila good to go.
And then I say, ok and then what, you have now unlocked your phone and you can magically control it without having to look at it? once you unlock it, the first thing you do is look at it.
Imagine this, skip step 1, unlocking with Touch ID, just look and voila good to go.
Genuinely interesting points (on Macrumors crazy!) We could go back and forth all day but neither of us really knows what will happen. I still maintain Apple won't be so touchy feely about easing people into it; history shows they're very bullish when it comes to new technology. Their attitude has always been "we know best", "trust us", "people don't know what they want until we show them" etc.
I feel the cost of entry to the next generation of iPhones is the jettisoning of TouchID. As I said on a previous post if customers don't like it then buy the new 7s/7s+ phones, it's not like the TouchID feature is going to be gone come September.
i'm pretty sure the technology isn't something like->
take a photo of you then compare it to a photo of you stored on the phone.
instead, it scans your face (3D).. so lighting isn't required.. i imagine you'll be able to use facial recognition in the dark.
For face recognition to be a viable option it has to be able to recognise the face without a direct look at the phone.
If they can unlock the phone while user is at a 45 degree angle, i.e. the phone is laying on a flat surface and the user wants to have a quick glance, then it is ok.
If you need to point the phone to your face to unlock it, then touch ID is far better. Let's see what they have in store
Facial recognition doesn't work the same way that people recognise faces. Not saying it is better, but it is different. At Madame Tussaud's, the figures are made to look similar to humans. It is quite possible that they don't look similar to facial recognition software.
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Apple's "Photos" app actually has matched pictures of my granddaughter between 4 years and 18 years old.
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There's an estimate that about one in a million people look identical to you.
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I sometimes see Japanese or Chinese tourists wearing face masks. I bet it will work less well for them. Or women covering their faces.
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Exact same price for Google, Amazon and some others.
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There are three possibilities: a. Apple has facial recognition that is as good or better than TouchID. b. All these reports are nonsense, TouchID stays. c. Apple replaces TouchID with something not near as good. (b) wouldn't surprise me at all. (c) would surprise me, that would be bad. (a) would be a pleasant surprise, but still a surprise.
At the moment I'd say it is most likely that these reports are wrong.