Apple's Craig Federighi: Uncertainty About Face ID Will 'Melt Away' Once People Get iPhone X

[Tech198]

Yes,, the instance on Tuesdays issues on stage will just "melt away like butter" but it will always live on by these forums

I'm guessing when you have only one way to unlock a phone, you must provide only one way to deactivate as well.

What else can Apple give use to use buttons which once served one purpose only? Sadly that will go away will well. Welcome to 2017 where every button is a multi-function, soon triple function.. (if Apple runs out of room)

 

[flat five]

I said the diagrams, go back and you'll understand.

go back why?
i made the diagrams and understand what they mean.

i think maybe you should go back and reassess those bits of the conversation.
[doublepost=1505705030][/doublepost]

What else can Apple give use to use buttons which once served one purpose only? Sadly that will go away will well. Welcome to 2017 where every button is a multi-function, soon triple function.. (if Apple runs out of room)

i'm not following your logic..
should be more like 'welcome to 2017 where the button which had the most functions tied to it has been removed'...
which could be seen as a move towards getting rid of all the buttons.

----
different perspectives i suppose.

 

[wozmatic]

You mean November?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/14/16306472/google-pixel-2-launch-date-october

 

[antonis]

do the rounded corners trigger you as well?

and fwiw, ALL video/photo ever created has portions being blocked out from what's truly captured.. lenses don't see rectangles.. our eyes also don't see rectangles.
you think since you've seen rectangles before that they're proper and will seemingly argue to death that anything not a straight sided rectangle is wrong..
reality is, lenses see circles and our eyes see some other weirdness.. with portions being blocked by our noses and eyebrows etc...

your problem is that you're stuck on rectangular as being proper since it's something you've seen before.. and anything new scares you

the thing i can't figure out (well, i can but it'd be more helpful if you'd say why).. is why do you even care? you like the S8? or iphone8? etc.. cool.. get that one.. why is it so important for you to spend so much time at these forums telling everyone about the things you don't like? what's your actual point? that Apple sux? ok. cool.
good to know.. anything else? or you just want to keep saying the same thing over and over and over again for week upon month upon year?



hmm.. as mentioned earlier in the thread, i liked how this notch thing looked prior to it having an apple logo on it.. is it so hard for you to believe that something like the notch isn't bothersome to people and that some people may actually prefer it? like, to me, i think it's sweet how in most of my uses of the phone will have the status bar stuff up in those two little nooks instead of superimposed over the other stuff.. you don't like that?

do you think it would be better design to just put a straight bezel across the top? you don't think the additional little nooks are sweet? (which is basically how i see it as.. not that the notch is taking away from the screen.. more like additional screen is added which forms the notch.. they could of easily (like way easier than what they done on the X) just made that a straight bezel.)



do you think knowing which way is up is important? or no?
if so, do you think having no indicator as to up is good? or not so good?

I could not even comment on the rest of the post, as it screams fanboyism. Why am I commenting ? Well, for the same reasons you feel obliged to make up moot points to blindly defend apple. But I don't mind since this is the point of a forum; different opinions, positive and negative ones. Otherwise, there would be no discussions, would they ? I know that some of these opinions burst the fairy-land bubbles that apple likes to make every now and then. We all love apple (or used to) so that's why we're here, commenting on their phones, their computers and their choices we've been using for many years. I'm sure there will be people that will like the X, but look around here; you'll find plenty of people that they don't. I guess we'll have to live with it.

Regarding the last - hilarious - part, I think I'd have a serious IQ issue if I needed the notch to show me which side of the iPhone is up. Of course the notch opens up new horizons in this matter, they could try it on monkeys or something. But I'm sure that was not your point.

 

[roeiz]

a different explanation:

here's the iPhone X and a standard 16:9 ratio:

View attachment 718550
--------
here's the 16:9 movie being played on the phone:
no missing video.. sides are letterboxed

View attachment 718551

------

if you zoom the video to fill the screen width, yes, you'll lose some content 'under' the notch..
however, you lose a lot more (11x more) video which is being cropped out of the top&bottom.

View attachment 718552


-----
are you seeing what i'm saying now?

like, if it's such a concern of yours to lose some video due to the notch then it should be a much bigger concern of yours to lose 11x the amount of content to the screen edges.. but you're seemingly unaware that you're losing video if doing a zoom-to-fit type operation (on ANY phone except in the rare event that the content ratio matches exactly the screen's aspect ratio)

this will be even worse for video/images of a squarer nature (say, 4:3 or 3:2)

.

So when i watch a 16:9 footage on full screen on my 6s+ its not actually 16:9?
Or is it? If it is, its actually bigger than watching it on the X when edges are blacked out.. right? That's what i wonder about.

 

[antonis]

You are missing the part where videos (movies, music videos, web videos and so on) are never at the native iPhone ration, because it's not the ratio movies, music videos and the video you can buy or find on the web are made.
[doublepost=1505668759][/doublepost]

I didn't miss anything, those video were zoomed. The default behavior is the one I said.

«I checked on this after @Gruber and I talked about it and confirmed default video play is not zoomed so won’t see notch unless tap to»

«when using the camera, watching videos, looking at photos, or playing games — and iOS 11 hides the notch with black bars by default in those use cases.»

Although I still consider a very anti-apple (as bad design, not attention to details) that the notch will hide a video or photo even if zoomed, I think your point is fair enough. We'll have to wait and see, though, since I see a lot of applications besides video that might look really weird in landscape mode trying to avoid the notch. Hope it is only bad concept art.

 

[Keirasplace]

go back why?
i made the diagrams and understand what they mean.

i think maybe you should go back and reassess those bits of the conversation.
[doublepost=1505705030][/doublepost]
i'm not following your logic..
should be more like 'welcome to 2017 where the button which had the most functions tied to it has been removed'...
which could be seen as a move towards getting rid of all the buttons.

----
different perspectives i suppose.

Good grief, well better go back to the "drawing board" then; cause your argument makes no sense for THIS phone.
Not some imaginary phone you'd like Apple to have done and would not sell.
Use crayons and show them to your friends, maybe they'll get it.
I'm not replying anymore to you, so that will have to do.

 

[flat five]

So when i watch a 16:9 footage on full screen on my 6s+ its not actually 16:9?
Or is it? If it is, its actually bigger than watching it on the X when edges are blacked out.. right? That's what i wonder about.

heh.. actually.. 16:9 on an iPhone 6s at full screen results in no content loss.
6s+ is (i think) 1920px x 1080px... which is exactly a 16:9 ratio.

so yeah.. if you're looking for best full-screen iPhone viewing experience of a 16:9 movie then... iPhone 8 plus is the one to get.


------
add-
the iPhone 8 not plus (and 7 and 6) also has a screen size at the exact ratio of 16:9..
that said, if compared to the X, the X will provide a larger non-cropped view of this size movie..

the X will be letterboxed (i.e.- blacked out over the notch and the bottom) but the video will still be physically larger than on the smaller iPhone 8.


[doublepost=1505710305][/doublepost]

Good grief, well better go back to the "drawing board" then; cause your argument makes no sense for THIS phone.
Not some imaginary phone you'd like Apple to have done and would not sell.
Use crayons and show them to your friends, maybe they'll get it.
I'm not replying anymore to you, so that will have to do.

lol.. you're completely not understanding what's being said up there.. like-- fully missing it..
i'm basically saying something exactly opposite of what you're saying i've said.

(like, for one, i've definitely not shown an example of a phone i'd like apple to make.. you seem to think i have )

I think I'd have a serious IQ issue if I needed the notch to show me which side of the iPhone is up.

how do you tell which way is up with your current phone?

 

[roeiz]

heh.. actually.. 16:9 on an iPhone 6s at full screen results in no content loss.
6s+ is (i think) 1920px x 1080px... which is exactly a 16:9 ratio.

so yeah.. if you're looking for best full-screen iPhone viewing experience of a 16:9 movie then... iPhone 8 plus is the one to get.


------
add-
the iPhone 8 not plus (and 7 and 6) also has a screen size at the exact ratio of 16:9..
that said, if compared to the X, the X will provide a larger non-cropped view of this size movie..

the X will be letterboxed (i.e.- blacked out over the notch and the bottom) but the video will still be physically larger than on the smaller iPhone 8.

Can you please put those diagrams of 8+ screen size, over the X screen size with and without the full screen - all on top of one another? Trying to visualize it.
Tnx.

 

[flat five]

Can you please put those diagrams of 8+ screen size, over the X screen size with and without the full screen - all on top of one another? Trying to visualize it.
Tnx.

here's a quick go at it.. pretty sure it's what you're asking ?
these are the actual screens.. not the outer dimensions of the phones.

(click to expand-- on a non-retina iMac/MBP, they'll appear at close to actual size)

 

[roeiz]

here's a quick go at it.. pretty sure it's what you're asking ?
these are the actual screens.. not the outer dimensions of the phones.

(click to expand)
View attachment 718627

Thanks..
So the 8+'s screen is that much wider huh?
I guess watching 16:9 (which is most of what we shoot and watch) movies is the biggest sacrifice in screen size. Well i didnt expect that. Thats a bummer because i didnt want to stay with 8+ home button and phone size.
The only option is zooming for full screen and live with it (to maximize screen usage) and the notch.

 

[flat five]

Thanks..
So the 8's screen is that much wider huh?
I guess watching 16:9 (which is most of what we shoot and watch) movies is the biggest sacrifice in screen size. Well i didnt expect that. Thats a bummer because i didnt want to stay with 8+ home button and phone size.
The only option is zooming for full screen and live with it (to maximize screen usage).

i haven't thought about this exact stuff until the exchanges between you and i but yeah, there are some tradeoffs going on here.
for example, if you do choose to go with an iPhone X and zoom-to-fit a 16:9 movie, the content which you see will actually be larger than what you see on an 8plus.. the downside is that you won't see some of the stuff around the edges of the frame.

if you're using you're phone often (daily) to watch movies or watch playback of video/images which were shot at 16:9 then yes, this particular scenario does present some unique decisions to be made which most of us (well, me at least) will not need to consider..
for more typical usages, i think the way the X is layed out will be beneficial over that of the 8plus..

but just so we're clear-- i'm not making any sort of recommendations.. for two reasons.
i don't own a plus sized iPhone nor a X (and haven't even used a X before )..
so yeah, just chatting/opining is all.

---
personally, i'm comparing a X to a 6s.. and to me, the screen on the X is looking sweet.. it's larger in all directions.. if comparing to a 6s+, i imagine the comparison is a little tougher since, while there's more overall screen real estate with the X, there's less of it in one of the directions.

 

[symphara]

 

[Jimrod]

One thing that's bugged me about Apple for a while is the way they've started to be very misleading about their specs in order to look better than the competition (or at least closer to), I'm sure most companies do it but Apple like to take a high moral ground about things...

Firstly thickness of their phones - this measurement is only valid at the thickest point, ie, the camera bump. Sorry but that's just a fact. I can't take my height based on wearing high heels and a hat, it works the same the other way, if the iPhone is "7mm" thick I should be able to slide it through a 7.1mm slot (if I so desired). Apple started adding this bulge and seem keen on keeping it so it's part of the phone whether they like it or not.

Now the same goes for the iPhone X screen being "5.8", not really, there's a giant notch taken out of one end. There isn't 5.8" of unobstructed viewing area so it's a bull**** measurement, it's like saying there's a room with a sea view in a hotel, yet the view is obstructed by a concrete tower block, or being given a 12" pizza with a slice missing, it's misleading.

 

[flat five]

But now the same goes for the iPhone X screen being "5.8", not really, there's a giant notch taken out of one end. There isn't 5.8" of unobstructed viewing area so it's a bull**** measurement,

sort of.. but not really.

if the iPhone X were a rectangle screen at 2436 x 1125 @ 458ppi ...with no notch or rounded corners ..then it would measure 5.86" diagonally instead of 5.8"

when you subtract the missing area of the notch and corners, the screen is left with the equivalent real estate of a rectangular phone measuring very very near the listed spec of 5.8" diagonal..

so, it appears they are giving an accurate area calculation and have not considered the corners and notch to be part of the spec.. but calling it a diagonal measurement isn't completely accurate since the screen isn't a rectangle.

for simplicity sake, naming the spec 'diagonal' is fair imo.. especially when you realize what you've assumed they've done.. that they are cheating you on this spec.. isn't the correct assumption.

----
edit-
heh.. just noticed it actually says similar on the specs page for iPhone X.. (under Display)..
further, they're being generous with their spec by rounding down..
the actual measurement of the rectangular screen would be 5.8599" ..they're calling it 5.85" (whereas i called it 5.86" earlier)

 

[roeiz]

i haven't thought about this exact stuff until the exchanges between you and i but yeah, there are some tradeoffs going on here.
for example, if you do choose to go with an iPhone X and zoom-to-fit a 16:9 movie, the content which you see will actually be larger than what you see on an 8plus.. the downside is that you won't see some of the stuff around the edges of the frame.

if you're using you're phone often (daily) to watch movies or watch playback of video/images which were shot at 16:9 then yes, this particular scenario does present some unique decisions to be made which most of us (well, me at least) will not need to consider..
for more typical usages, i think the way the X is layed out will be beneficial over that of the 8plus..

but just so we're clear-- i'm not making any sort of recommendations.. for two reasons.
i don't own a plus sized iPhone nor a X (and haven't even used a X before )..
so yeah, just chatting/opining is all.

---
personally, i'm comparing a X to a 6s.. and to me, the screen on the X is looking sweet.. it's larger in all directions.. if comparing to a 6s+, i imagine the comparison is a little tougher since, while there's more overall screen real estate with the X, there's less of it in one of the directions.

Thanks.
I wonder why didn't they keep the same screen size as the +
anyway, from your diagrams i'm mostly worried that watching 16:9 ratio on the X (without zooming) is almost the same size as the smaller 8 screen size!
why why i have to have this dilemma on top of the price??

 

[flat five]

anyway, from your diagrams i'm mostly worried that watching 16:9 ratio on the X (without zooming) is almost the same size as the smaller 8 screen size!

yes, that's correct

why why i have to have this dilemma on top of the price??

yep. weird one to be caught up in.

(but i'm just sympathizing with you.. i'm personally not experiencing this dilemma )

probably best bet for someone in your situation is try before you buy.. or, buy then try.. and return for 8+ if you don't like how the playback is with your videos.

 

[roeiz]

yes, that's correct


yep. weird one to be caught up in.

(but i'm just sympathizing with you.. i'm personally not experiencing this dilemma )

probably best bet for someone in your situation is try before you buy.. or, buy then try.. and return for 8+ if you don't like how the playback is with your videos.

we'll see. thanks for the discussion

 

[recoil80]

Thanks..
So the 8+'s screen is that much wider huh?
I guess watching 16:9 (which is most of what we shoot and watch) movies is the biggest sacrifice in screen size. Well i didnt expect that. Thats a bummer because i didnt want to stay with 8+ home button and phone size.
The only option is zooming for full screen and live with it (to maximize screen usage) and the notch.

iPhone X will be far better for portrait content, but landscape usage will be better on the 8+
The notch is going to be really annoying in landscape, and even if you hide it putting a black bar in landscape mode you still have a better aspect ratio on the 8+ since it is wider (taller in landscape).

I'm confident they'll make a plus version of X sooner or later and of course it will be better than current + with bezels, but since you don't have that option yet you have to decide between 8+ and X.
If I had to I'd probably go for the 8+ or just wait

 

[roeiz]

iPhone X will be far better for portrait content, but landscape usage will be better on the 8+
The notch is going to be really annoying in landscape, and even if you hide it putting a black bar in landscape mode you still have a better aspect ratio on the 8+ since it is wider (taller in landscape).

I'm confident they'll make a plus version of X sooner or later and of course it will be better than current + with bezels, but since you don't have that option yet you have to decide between 8+ and X.
If I had to I'd probably go for the 8+ or just wait

huh.. well so if i am a patient and logical person (LOL) best thing for me is to stick to my 6s+ until further newer options,
OR hope for some good contract deal to switch phone every year.. they 8+ is not that appealing to upgrade.

 

[mrklaw]

huh.. well so if i am a patient and logical person (LOL) best thing for me is to stick to my 6s+ until further newer options,
OR hope for some good contract deal to switch phone every year.. they 8+ is not that appealing to upgrade.

for me at least, the difference in size of 16:9 content between X and plus isn't that big. I can live with that difference for the benefit of a physically smaller phone. Have owned both + and regular 6s for over 6 months each, and personally for me the plus is too bulky/heavy.

 

[recoil80]

huh.. well so if i am a patient and logical person (LOL) best thing for me is to stick to my 6s+ until further newer options,
OR hope for some good contract deal to switch phone every year.. they 8+ is not that appealing to upgrade.

I have a 6s, I was planning to switch to a plus model to get the dual camera and a bigger display but I haven't decided what to do yet.
X has OIS on both cameras, a fresh design and is slightly bigger than my 6s, but is pricey and I'm not sure I could use it one handed like I do with my 6s. 8+ is cheaper but still expensive, is far better in landscape but I'm afraid I'd get tired of the bezels and crave for the X or X+
No iPhone upgrade program in my country, so I can't buy the 8+ and get rid of it next year, I'm afraid I'd lose a lot of money buying it outright today and selling it next year.

 

[roeiz]

for me at least, the difference in size of 16:9 content between X and plus isn't that big. I can live with that difference for the benefit of a physically smaller phone. Have owned both + and regular 6s for over 6 months each, and personally for me the plus is too bulky/heavy.

good for you.. i really need the screen size of the + but hate the wasted real estate of top/bottom, and prefer no home button. too bad for me

 

[FlushNorris]

FaceID? Never ever... I often unlocks the iPhone while its laying on my desk in "odd" angels, where it would be hard for the camera to see my face.

This time I will probably buy the iPhone8 (or just keep my iPhone6s)... But I surely hope the TouchID is back in X2, otherwise I will be closer than ever to do a radical change, that I'm currently hate even to suggest for myself... Which is shifting to the wonderful world of Android

And whats up with the "fast controls" in the upper-right corner?!?! No more access the phone with only one hand

 

[Jimrod]

FaceID? Never ever... I often unlocks the iPhone while its laying on my desk in "odd" angels, where it would be hard for the camera to see my face.

This time I will probably buy the iPhone8 (or just keep my iPhone6s)... But I surely hope the TouchID is back in X2, otherwise I will be closer than ever to do a radical change, that I'm currently hate even to suggest for myself... Which is shifting to the wonderful world of Android

And whats up with the "fast controls" in the upper-right corner?!?! No more access the phone with only one hand

I think that notch and faceID issues aside, usability is going to be a real factor with the X. I changed from a 6 to an SE because I only ever like to use my phone one-handed and I can't see that with the X and it's pull-down menus. Also the use of the side "power" button for Siri with the X runs the risk of a lot of mis-activations in pocket. As much as some people are very confident that Apple trial all these things thoroughly and that we only ever get "perfect" product, history tells us differently with their 1st-gen products.

What I'd really love is a revamped SE - the X at that size, with larger screen would have been amazing and a real throwback to the original iPhone principals of usability because you can still reach the corners! I think a top spec X at that size would have been an awesome product and I'd happily have paid more for it than I would for an 8/8+.

Sadly it'll never happen, Apple have gone a certain route of size and specs and they seem to think people only pay for bigger. I can happily buy the 8/8+ or X but I'm just not excited by any of them as there seem to be compromises on each (the 8 with the dual cameras would have swung it for me but I feel it's being hamstrung to push people to the larger, more expensive models).