Apple's Designers Clashing Over 'Tacky' Software Skeuomorphisms

[sexiewasd]

Why should it look like knobs or buttons at all? Perhaps I've never used a midi controller or an old organ. Do your personal sensibilities about the app and the buttons lighting up off the black plastic, etc. possibly skew your design sensibilities in EXACTLY the same way the Apple designers are doing? Yup.

Think about the 14 year old just learning this stuff and picking up your app. Does the design and function mean anything to him? Would it be better in some other way that was universal? Could you possibly design your app to function MORE like the OS interface being used to lessen the learning curve and add to the comprehension of similar functions wherever possible?

That is good design. Not just, "I think the knobs look nice because the remind me of the knobs on an old Hammond organ." It's not about pesonal aesthetics. It's about right and wrong.

At least that's what I think.

I certainly could, I could use all apple premade drag and drop iOS elements like the picker wheel and have everything made out of gray brushed metal with glowy blue spots. It wouldn't change my ui layout at all though, that was designed weeks before any color choices or skeumorphism entered into the equation. So with the buttons all doing the same things and all in the same places, because they are the right places to be, I would be left with an app that looks like what it would be, a drag and drop mess that would, if you had your way, look like every other app? How many apps are we up to now? Somewhere around 800,000 or so? what app am I in? THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME!!! yea, that wouldn't get confusing.

Take a look at some of the really great music app designs, like Native Instrument's iMaschine, which looks like their hardware, Maschine, or ClearTune, which looks like an old analog tuner, or maybe Sunrizer which looks like a Synth, or MuseBook Metronome, how about korg's iKaossilator? All of these have very natural easy to use UI that incorporate skumorphic principles done properly. Take a look at them then maybe you can understand my point.

 

[BJonson]

I hate the ical look with the leather. Part of the reason I am sticking to snow leopard. I use a computer because I like tech, high tech. Don't make my apps look like stupid leather and ripped paper. Its ugly and in poor taste. Reminds me of a newbie making a website with the pre-built templates from front page. Same feeling.

 

[Getitdone]

I'm not surprised that there are ongoing internal discussions on these important design elements. There are so many elements that I really like and others that I don't.

The ones that I "like" or "don't have a strong opinion of" make it easier for me to find/do things and/or lend a cool design element to the environment. The ones that I don't like are solely due to personal taste like the rendering of the faux materials used in the design finish of particular items. And those that I don't like bug me every time I see them.

This doesn't seem to be an easily decided all or nothing proposition.

 

[Lark.Landon]

The iCal picture shown is tacky, but I haven't seen anything in iOS that draws my ire. Mostly just cute or whimsical touches that harken back to the paper world.

edit: 4 comments in and I'm the first meaningful one. I'll try to be faster next time.

lol meaningful.

 

[NT1440]

I hate the ical look with the leather. Part of the reason I am sticking to snow leopard. I use a computer because I like tech, high tech. Don't make my apps look like stupid leather and ripped paper. Its ugly and in poor taste. Reminds me of a newbie making a website with the pre-built templates from front page. Same feeling.

So run the terminal script and remove it.

 

[dolph0291]

[url=http://cdn.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogodarkd.png]Image[/url]

The original article smells of Microsoft's PR machine and I wish that Mac sites like this one wouldn't pay it any attention by reprinting it and, gawd forbid, linking to it. The original article's purpose, reading between the lines, was to tout the "beauty" of Win 8 over Apple's approach to design. I don't mind Apple's skeumorphism, as a matter of fact I kind of like most of it (but not all) and prefer it over Win 8, which I find to be incredibly ugly. And useless.

 

[gaudibr]

Good to see that after Steve Jobs, Apple will be taking design lessons from MS.

 

[JayJayAbels]

If these are the major arguments going on inside the Apple camp... I think we're going to be just fine.

This is the kind of stuff that, imo, really separates Apple from many other companies. Details can be THAT important so long as the functionality continues to be rock solid, simple and user friendly.

This is like buying a brand new Lamborghini Aventador and then deciding whether or not to tint the windows.

#notthatimportantintheschemeofthings

 

[Born2run45]

In the linked article he addresses that and specifically says he isn't talking about iBooks, but you'd have to go read the whole entry.

I actually did read the whole article and I saw his "disclaimer". It didn't make much sense because he is specifically talking about iBooks and grossly exaggerating how it functions. Thats the weird thing about people that argue against the use of skeuomorphism. They always exaggerate how bad it is in order to prove their point. He could have just said "iBooks is ugly". He didn't have to lie about how it functions.

 

[Aidan5806]

LOL. What is the base install? over 35g I believe?

its 40 for the upgrade from Consumer preview to release preview

 

[faroZ06]

its 40 for the upgrade from Consumer preview to release preview

Are you talking about 40GB??! That's insane! Will Windows 8 require like 6GB of RAM just for system operations with no applications running?

----------

If these are the major arguments going on inside the Apple camp... I think we're going to be just fine.

This is the kind of stuff that, imo, really separates Apple from many other companies. Details can be THAT important so long as the functionality continues to be rock solid, simple and user friendly.

This is like buying a brand new Lamborghini Aventador and then deciding whether or not to tint the windows.

#notthatimportantintheschemeofthings

Judging by the UI designer's words, I think he's some raged nerd who wants everything to look bland and "professional", the kind of guy who hates iOS with a passion and who wants Mac OS X to run on the iPhone. But I do agree that Apple botched the calendar designs. A modern-looking calendar would be fine, and that's what iCal was.

 

[HarryKNN21]

LOL nobody mentioned iPhoto in iOS, nobody can check the date they took the photo, can't get any EXIF info, UI looks hideous IMO and don't allow users to manage their galleries.

When I got rid of iPhone and started using HTC One X, I compared the HTC Sense to iOS and I have forgotten iOS since then. Yes, I know I should not compare Android to iOS here, but frankly speaking default Apple apps in iOS should at least have basic functionality that users need.

I don't care too much about the leather look in Calender and Note, I care more about the user friendliness and iOS default apps somehow aren't.

 

[Lex Yu]

Doesn't "lipstick on a pig" imply that it was ugly in the first place, and "makeup" won't help?

The next quote seems to imply that he likes the base product just not the skeumorphic animations. Unless maybe he is saying he likes the hardware and not the software.

You are right. The guy whose speech is quoted seems to have made a big mistake of choosing vocabulary.

Although I understand what they, the opponents of skeuomorphisms, say, I don't agree with them, especially I stand strongly against the example of a paper shredder in iOS 6.

Most of us have seen a paper shredder at least from a movie so we do know how it works.

And I want to emphasize that, the shredding animation gives us not only fun(no matter if you call it visual masturbation), it also gives us a feeling of security that we get to think our personal information is erased securely.

The shredding animation is genius. You have to admit it.

 

[matrix07]

I like skeuomorphism design. It's more enjoyable to use. Period.

 

[ixodes]

I hate the ical look with the leather. Part of the reason I am sticking to snow leopard. I use a computer because I like tech, high tech. Don't make my apps look like stupid leather and ripped paper. Its ugly and in poor taste. Reminds me of a newbie making a website with the pre-built templates from front page. Same feeling.

Kudos, you've expressed it very well.

I feel exactly the same, it only makes me appreciate my Snow Leopard centered MBP's & Mac Pro even more.

The disappointing aspect is that looking ahead, this "Tacky" style prevents us from having something to look forward to.

After all you _Know_it's_Bad, when it's an internal problem within Apple.

It really makes one wonder just whats going on behind the walls of the compound.

 

[aristotle]

Yes, they're done well, but they are still very tacky. Apple does it because it makes their applications seem more approachable, but any designer, even Apple's designers, will balk at them.


You're also mindlessly bashing Windows 8. Traffic symbols and colors?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_(design_language)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Typographic_Style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Frutiger
http://zunited.net/2012/08/microsofts-metro-is-no-more/

Do you really consider that original? Do you think a bunch of blue/white tiles to be usable?

 

[dv8r]

That is good design. Not just, "I think the knobs look nice because the remind me of the knobs on an old Hammond organ." It's not about pesonal aesthetics. It's about right and wrong.

At least that's what I think.

If a virtual Hammond organ is what your are doing then I really don't see any other way than the real deal. Same goes for a Moog etc. I have seen many implementations of virtual synths, most of them seem to be more visual masturbation than something usefull - nothing beats a well laid out 303 (like the original), in hand or on screen. The current design have some timelessness to it imho - take the Windows8 design as an example, people will grow tired of it (because it's ugly and stale) in a couple of years and then what?

 

[Rocketman]

When someone copies it, it will be totally obvious.

I say that so long as it doesn't interfere with functionality or industrial design, let a few Jobsian edges live on. Besides Forstall and Ive are approximately equally important at Apple in different ways, and in relation to their relationship with Jobs and Apple.

Rocketman

 

[babyj]

What version of OSX are you using though, to me Lion and Mountain Lion look pretty good (only used SL for a week before Lion-up-to-date replacement), pretty much the last of the "lick-able" screen devices were removed -- the blue glassy scrollbar. Pared down, but the whole UI still feels lush to me.

Can't comment on Win8, only saw screenshots, but will be building one to replace my old Windows box, building a PC based on AMD's APUs is pretty cheap. Main work system still the iMac though, one year Mac user, still loving OSX.

I run Mountain Lion but that isn't really relevant, the overall look and feel of OSX hasn't changed in the 5 years I've been using it. The Windows 8 UI is a radical change - having a single UI for desktop and mobile is risky but I think it works.

The more time I spend with Windows 8 the more I think the Apple UI (desktop and mobile) is antiquated and falling behind Microsoft.

 

[faroZ06]

You are right. The guy whose speech is quoted seems to have made a big mistake of choosing vocabulary.

Although I understand what they, the opponents of skeuomorphisms, say, I don't agree with them, especially I stand strongly against the example of a paper shredder in iOS 6.

Most of us have seen a paper shredder at least from a movie so we do know how it works.

And I want to emphasize that, the shredding animation gives us not only fun(no matter if you call it visual masturbation), it also gives us a feeling of security that we get to think our personal information is erased securely.

The shredding animation is genius. You have to admit it.

You are exactly right, at least in my opinion. Consumers would feel very secure seeing a digital version of their document being shredded to pieces, which it is and much more in real life. It's doomed to be overwritten by something else or maybe zeroed out by the software. And the UI designer chose his words very poorly. "Lipstick on a pig" and "visual masturbation" are just inaccurate.

 

[vga4life]

This crud will look as dated as a vinyl roof on a hard-top sedan in a few years. It's a bad direction for Apple, redolent of the bad old days of knobs in the Quicktime player.

I don't like where Microsoft is going with Metro from a functionality perspective but appreciate challenging recent GUI paradigms.

 

[Music Ambulance]

This 'questionable skeuomorphism' is dishonest design. That's probably why Mr Ive doesn't like it—and good on him. Turning the page in Calendar makes me feel like I've been slapped in the face. It is the app controlling me, not vice-versa. (They could at least make the torn paper change every month). Leather has a great smell and feel—my computer can't replicate that—so it shouldn't try.

Most apple design is professional, approachable and enduring. There are scarcely any other companies out there who manage to achieve all three concurrently. More of that please, apple.

 

[jarofclay73]

The article seems to imply that you can't have a really nice interface and a usable one. Why can't we have both? I guess everything has a deadline.

 

[wordoflife]

I'll agree that some functionality in programs have been lost in favor of UI "improvements", but I'm not against better aesthetics.

 

[snowleopard48]

A good example of this is the Podcasts app. The 'tape recorder' design is terrible. The reason humanity invented CDs, then iPods is because we wanted to move away from tape.

Then apple say, yeah, let's bring that back.
It's ugly and unnecessary. There once was a time when apple knew how to make minimalistic stuff beautiful. Seems they forgot how.