Apple's Diversity Chief Christie Smith Leaves the Company

[G4-power]

Interesting how two-sided the conversation gets. I (at least try to) understand both sides. But I feel there should be a middle ground, and not go to the extremes.

I don't think you should try to force diversity, by hiring only minorities despite their competences.
But I think at the same time you should work to identify and mitigate problems that make it difficult for minorities to get jobs and advance on their career paths, and bring diversity by equal opportunity. One problem may be subconscious hiring/promoting trends, as was already stated here, people tend to hire and promote people that are similar to them.

A lot of the problems in diversity arise already from the society at large, and may not be easily or fairly compensated by the hiring/employing company. It may be difficult for people from minority communities to reach these sort of jobs already because they didn't have the possibility for higher education, due to cost for example.

Somewhat similar issue I've seen in Finland, where it's not a racial issue, but we have a Swedish language minority. Although I work in a global company with English as the common working language and we have several different nationalities working together, I see that managers tend to hire people that speak the same language as them (whether it is Finnish or Swedish). It may not be a conscious bias, but it's probably just easier for them. I think it's changing for the better though.

 

[citysnaps]

People come and go from large companies all the time. This wasn’t even an c-suite position. And it doesn’t appear she was leaving on bad terms. Why does Bloomberg think this is newsworthy?

It's not. But I believe Bloomberg makes it out to be because provocative "news" get's people frothed up (attracting people to site ads). Witness most of the posts here.

 

[coolfactor]

I'm a sexist racist. For my Filipino store, I give hiring preference to Filipino females. Because they work damn hard, and let's see.... THEY NEED TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE! But hey, apparently I'm a racist for hiring the best people for the job, and discriminating against other races.

Okay, this post was a bit raw. I sure hope the "new Earth" will be better, and not just different.

 

[Pangalactic]

equal opportunity

THIS. Unfortunately, because it requires quite a bit of effort, most companies do the exact opposite: instead of fighting for equal opportunities, they start literally shoving in the minorities in every possible position and call that "diversity".

 

[jonnyb098]

So she's been fired for being white basically "leaving to spend time with her family"......RIIIIGHHHHTTTT

 

[calstanford]

You know how people say "A picture is worth a thousand words"
Well I have just, a moment ago, taken this image from Apple's own website.

I don't have to say a word..........
Just let you, upon seeing this. Judge for yourself just how serious Apple is as a company to being inclusive to all, and if you feel the words they say, actually mean anything in reality:

View attachment 924766

A good mix of men and women for tech company.

 

[NOV]

"High performance teams"
In my career I only worked in low performance teams. And when I ask virtually anyone around me they also worked in low performance teams.

 

[calderone]

THIS. Unfortunately, because it requires quite a bit of effort, most companies do the exact opposite: instead of fighting for equal opportunities, they start literally shoving in the minorities in every possible position and call that "diversity".

Can you provide one example of this?

 

[Pangalactic]

You know how people say "A picture is worth a thousand words"
Well I have just, a moment ago, taken this image from Apple's own website.

I don't have to say a word..........
Just let you, upon seeing this. Judge for yourself just how serious Apple is as a company to being inclusive to all, and if you feel the words they say, actually mean anything in reality:

View attachment 924766

I think this is outrageous. Not only do they have only four people with glasses, but also just two bald people but not a single person is blonde! This is clear discrimination against people with bad eyesight, hair loss, and blond hair color.

 

[jonnyb098]

Some people are always too quick to point fingers saying such and such a company has a diversity problem because all the board of directors are white or all the top executives are white or all the top senior managers are white. These people need to look closely at the black community, their world-renowned celebrities, their world-renowned sportsmen and women, their world-renowned musicians, their world-renowned people of incluence and go look at who they employ as their main manager/agent and they will see that a huge majority of these black people have white people as the main person of choice. They hire the best people in the business to get them to be the best and it just so happens that the majority of these people hire to help black people like Oprah Winfrey, Will Smith, Lionel Ritchie, ex US president Obama, all have one thing in common, they all have white people as their agents or management team, white people who have helped them get where they are today.

Oprah Winfrey is considered one of Amercia's top black female celebrities and the person who has helped her become that, a white woman. Obama the first black US president and who helped him get there, his campaign manager, a white man. Behind neary every sucessful black person has been a white person but yet no one seems to moan about why these people of colour do not hire their own kind. I am sure there are very good black talent agents but why didn't Oprah Winfrey employ one. I am sure there are very good black political campaign managers so why didn't Obama employ one to be his? And the reason is because they hired the 'BEST' people for the job.

If blacks are not hiring their own kind, how do you expect whites to hire them.

This X100. Its the most logical thought out argument on this thread so far. Also there seems to be some crazy idea that only white people can be racist. I personally know a couple close people that have been victims of black on white racisim/slurs. But lets not talk about that right? WE ALL HAVE TO BE BETTER (and ALL doesnt mean only white people).

 

[Pangalactic]

Can you provide one example of this?

Sure:

Accenture sets staffing goal of 50% women and 50% men by 2025

CEO Pierre Nanterme said the company's ultimate goal is to create a "gender-balanced workforce."

www.hrdive.com

 

[RickDEGH]

Some people are always too quick to point fingers saying such and such a company has a diversity problem because all the board of directors are white or all the top executives are white or all the top senior managers are white. These people need to look closely at the black community, their world-renowned celebrities, their world-renowned sportsmen and women, their world-renowned musicians, their world-renowned people of incluence and go look at who they employ as their main manager/agent and they will see that a huge majority of these black people have white people as the main person of choice. They hire the best people in the business to get them to be the best and it just so happens that the majority of these people hire to help black people like Oprah Winfrey, Will Smith, Lionel Ritchie, ex US president Obama, all have one thing in common, they all have white people as their agents or management team, white people who have helped them get where they are today.

Oprah Winfrey is considered one of Amercia's top black female celebrities and the person who has helped her become that, a white woman. Obama the first black US president and who helped him get there, his campaign manager, a white man. Behind neary every sucessful black person has been a white person but yet no one seems to moan about why these people of colour do not hire their own kind. I am sure there are very good black talent agents but why didn't Oprah Winfrey employ one. I am sure there are very good black political campaign managers so why didn't Obama employ one to be his? And the reason is because they hired the 'BEST' people for the job.

If blacks are not hiring their own kind, how do you expect whites to hire them.

Ever thought about the fact that “white” people perhaps might tend to be inward-looking (like every other race) and they disproportionately control the wealth and systems in America, so it’s actually smart on the side of those “black“ people to get people who can get them through the door - therefore hiring “white” people???? White = best - yeahhhhh! Wonder why they call it “white privilege”? Smh

 

[Professor Rucy]

You know how people say "A picture is worth a thousand words"
Well I have just, a moment ago, taken this image from Apple's own website.

I don't have to say a word..........
Just let you, upon seeing this. Judge for yourself just how serious Apple is as a company to being inclusive to all, and if you feel the words they say, actually mean anything in reality:

View attachment 924766

You’re right... Apple needs to hire a Director of Corporate Hypocrisy. Unfortunately this will be a full-time position with LOTS of overtime and weekends.

 

[Vanilla35]

Yes, denying people a job because of their skin color is a good thing.

People love to state that companies deny people based on skin color. But I wonder if they have considered that companies may also accept people based on their skills and experience?

 

[Vanilla35]

Having goals for underrepresented groups is bad?
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And who gets all the skills and experience? Hiding behind “skills and experience” ignore the real issue.

Companies like Apple should be leveraging these roles to change the reasons that have led to so few women and minorities even applying for a role, let alone getting a role.

Are you talking about reforming what companies look for when they post a position at their company? If so, that's a great thought, that I agree with, but isn't really related to the race/skin color debate.

Hiring someone of color when they have less experience does not solve the actual (source) issue either, I don't get your point.

 

[Pangalactic]

Having goals for underrepresented groups is bad?

It's not just bad, it's terrible, because it will lead to hiring - in this case - a lot of less competent women and dismissing a lot of sufficiently qualified men.

 

[TSE]

You know how people say "A picture is worth a thousand words"
Well I have just, a moment ago, taken this image from Apple's own website.

I don't have to say a word..........
Just let you, upon seeing this. Judge for yourself just how serious Apple is as a company to being inclusive to all, and if you feel the words they say, actually mean anything in reality:

View attachment 924766

Diversity isn’t just about race

 

[Vanilla35]

It has everything to do with race. Since I’m unlikely to change your myopic viewpoint, so I’ll go focus on doing something.

Do you think companies should be more lenient in their hiring overall? Isn't the issue that the free market economy has pushed so many people to go to college that it's edged up entry level jobs to require masters degrees in some sectors? That on top of a bachelors degree, you need 3 years experience to get basic entry level jobs at companies nowadays?

 

[az431]

Well she is white after all 😄

Didn't take long for someone to show us that they are racist, misogynist, homophobic, or all three. Literally the first post.
[automerge]1592404141[/automerge]

It’s guaranteed that this job will be filled by a non-white person. That’s a good thing.

But you can’t help thinking that this move is purely a stunt to look good.

.... and another winner
[automerge]1592404283[/automerge]

Interesting how two-sided the conversation gets. I (at least try to) understand both sides. But I feel there should be a middle ground, and not go to the extremes.

I don't think you should try to force diversity, by hiring only minorities despite their competences.
But I think at the same time you should work to identify and mitigate problems that make it difficult for minorities to get jobs and advance on their career paths, and bring diversity by equal opportunity. One problem may be subconscious hiring/promoting trends, as was already stated here, people tend to hire and promote people that are similar to them.

A lot of the problems in diversity arise already from the society at large, and may not be easily or fairly compensated by the hiring/employing company. It may be difficult for people from minority communities to reach these sort of jobs already because they didn't have the possibility for higher education, due to cost for example.

Somewhat similar issue I've seen in Finland, where it's not a racial issue, but we have a Swedish language minority. Although I work in a global company with English as the common working language and we have several different nationalities working together, I see that managers tend to hire people that speak the same language as them (whether it is Finnish or Swedish). It may not be a conscious bias, but it's probably just easier for them. I think it's changing for the better though.

Not aware of any company that hires only minorities despite their competence. Or any evidence that would support anyone if being hired despite their competence.
[automerge]1592404390[/automerge]

Are you talking about reforming what companies look for when they post a position at their company? If so, that's a great thought, that I agree with, but isn't really related to the race/skin color debate.

Hiring someone of color when they have less experience does not solve the actual (source) issue either, I don't get your point.

It does because experience is not the only determinant of whether someone can perform a job. In some jobs, bringing a different point of view is more beneficial than experience.

 

[calderone]

Do you think companies should be more lenient in their hiring overall? Isn't the issue that the free market economy has pushed so many people to go to college that it's edged up entry level jobs to require masters degrees in some sectors? That on top of a bachelors degree, you need 3 years experience to get basic entry level jobs at companies nowadays?

"Lenient" isn't the word I would use. I'll preface by saying that I am black and I've been an engineering (and thus hiring) manager for quite some time.

The reality is that the problem is in the funnel. The number of women, African Americans and other underrepresented groups that apply for my roles are few and far between. So the question becomes "why is this happening?" This forces us to look at the systemic issues present in American society. As someone mentioned before, equal opportunity. The difference here is that equal opportunity doesn't exist leading up to applying for a job. It is easy to claim there is "equal opportunity" for a given role - but again that misses the real issue.

Access to education, access to capital (required for education), access to mentors, networking and thus opportunities that provide experience.

Faced with the reality of a hiring funnel that will never produce the diversity present in our society, what should we do?

The individual using terms such as "less competent" make it clear that they're experience in actually dealign with this is pretty minimal. I've made hires that on paper look "poor," but have been stellar. The real difference here is the ability to be a great coach and mentor.

Diversity programs are not simply looking to pump the numbers, sure that is what gets reported, but the other efforts such as training, internal support, coaching, impact the funnel are the more important actions.

This conversation cannot be had if we are consistently unwilling to acknowledge the systemic issues at play. Otherwise is it all "gotcha" with statements such as "less competent women."

 

[laptech]

Ever thought about the fact that “white” people perhaps might tend to be inward-looking (like every other race) and they disproportionately control the wealth and systems in America, so it’s actually smart on the side of those “black“ people to get people who can get them through the door - therefore hiring “white” people???? White = best - yeahhhhh! Wonder why they call it “white privilege”? Smh

hiring the best does not mean white = best and you know it. You have a prejudiced mindset.

 

[DoctorTech]

You know how people say "A picture is worth a thousand words"
Well I have just, a moment ago, taken this image from Apple's own website.

I don't have to say a word..........
Just let you, upon seeing this. Judge for yourself just how serious Apple is as a company to being inclusive to all, and if you feel the words they say, actually mean anything in reality:

View attachment 924766

These are people in senior positions and I see a lot of gray hair, receding hair lines, a even a couple of bald heads. I would guess that most (not necessarily all) of the people on this page graduated college with a 4 year degree somewhere between 1975 and 1985 when graduating classes, especially in business and STEM programs, were less diverse than they are today. I say this from personal experience, I earned my Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering in the mid 80s from one of the largest engineering Universities in the country and I know the demographics of the people who were in my classes, they were nearly all white males.

If you look at entry level and mid level employees within Apple today, I am sure you would see a lot more diversity than shown in the screen shot above. Over time, as the mid-level employees gain experience and get promoted into vacancies created by retiring executives, they will start showing up on this page. I don't believe Apple needs to push their current executive team out of the way just to fast track a bunch of younger employees into senior positions. Doing so could potentially open the company up to accusations of age discrimination.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Interesting how quickly this position becomes vacant.

Exactly! this really has me feeling sour about Apple as an organization and then being run!

just last week Tim Cook makes a statement with $$$ about donating to Black Lives Matter movement and the stock drops $10US the same day; and you can see the comments in that Th read we’re pretty vile to say the least.

and yet here the history of such a role

Smith joined Apple in 2017 and took over the role from Denise Young Smith, who lasted just six months and left after apologizing for controversial comments she made about the mostly white makeup of Apple's executive team.

one has to think what’s really going on at the top. Also notice the only dark skinned executive, Bozoma, whom did an on-stage Apple Music presentation back in 2017 was well likes by fans not in attendance of WWDC yet since she was very bold and different was soon narrowed to the door where she had no recourse but to resign.
So what’s really going on here?!

 

[Marekul]

It's not just bad, it's terrible, because it will lead to hiring - in this case - a lot of less competent women and dismissing a lot of sufficiently qualified men.

Also it diminishes the work of people who made their way up without preferential treatment. At the hospital people already ask for male white doctor because that is the only one where they can safely assume not race or gender but skill is what brought him into position.

 

[Dranix]

Hmm, Bozoma was highly annoying at that WWDC presentation. I don't think because she is black but because it felt like she was on drugs...