Apple's Focus on iPhone OS 4 Diverting Resources From Mac OS X 10.7?

[Digital Skunk]

I still consider Tiger to be the best version of OS X to date. Snow Leopard is worse than Leopard in my experience.

I would have to agree. There has always been just one thing that makes me want to upgrade my system. With Leopard it was Time Machine, and with Snow Leopard it was 64bit native apps (that somehow still crash from time to time).

There's never been an OS as stable and efficient as Tiger. The one thing I give Leopard is good looks.

 

[greg400]

No, i'm certainly not joking.
Apart from programming or long winded novel writing..... a finger based UI is the ultimate in personal computing for user/professional created content and content consumption.

Don't be so naive. I'm not sure if you were around at the transition from command line to the GUI. Productivity increased 100x and kept increasing as the gui matured. I see the same thing happening here as the keyboard and mouse are replaced by finger/hand gestures. Obviously it's not happening overnight just as command to gui hasn't changed overnight. The software needs to mature, and developers need to rework the way programs work so that all aspects of their program are set free and not bound by a keyboard and mouse. Open your eyes and look past what you already know from the classical computer model. It will most certainly disappear. Why not help it move along by adopting the finger based UI.

That is why I support apple's move to boycott flash, as a vast number of flash based programs require things like mouse over etc.

Think different.

Really? A finger based UI is the ultimate professional content creation? LOL

I'd love to see how professionals try and use the Final Cut suite with touch input. What a nightmare.

 

[Digital Skunk]

No, i'm certainly not joking.
Apart from programming or long winded novel writing..... a finger based UI is the ultimate in personal computing for user/professional created content and content consumption. Think different.

It may be in the future, like WAY in the future, but it's not going to be now, or anytime in the immediate future.

People are having a hard time trying to punch out emails on the iPad, let alone use Final Cut Pro.

I agree with you when it comes to the pointer/mousing aspect of computing . . . but many of those advanced apps we use have deep menu hierarchy that thrives on keyboard shortcuts and precision mousing. Until the UI, apps, and machine design all get to that point, the keyboard and mouse will be king.

 

[KingYaba]

Borderless windows would be nice. Quicktime X has the right thing in this regard. I'd like to see that implemented in Safari and iChat.

 

[allpar]

Fingers

I don't mind finger input as long as I still have keyboard input. Maybe some people can do 100 wpm on a virtual keyboard, but I can't. Especially not without looking at it. Maybe if they had nubs on the F and J keys... tactile ones...

The pointing device can change without impeding workflow, but assuming that EVERY major interface change will improve productivity is silly.

New software is not always better than old software (ever use Word 5.1?). New interfaces are not always superior to old ones. Old ideas are not necessarily bad and can come back (what became Chrysler Corp started in the late 1800s as an electric car maker.)

Also, one size does NOT fit all. That's why one of the hallmarks of good design is being able to do the same thing different ways, e.g. via key command OR menu. Key commands are faster for the experienced user, menus are more discoverable.

 

[TennisandMusic]

No, i'm certainly not joking.
Apart from programming or long winded novel writing..... a finger based UI is the ultimate in personal computing for user/professional created content and content consumption.

Don't be so naive. I'm not sure if you were around at the transition from command line to the GUI. Productivity increased 100x and kept increasing as the gui matured. I see the same thing happening here as the keyboard and mouse are replaced by finger/hand gestures. Obviously it's not happening overnight just as command to gui hasn't changed overnight. The software needs to mature, and developers need to rework the way programs work so that all aspects of their program are set free and not bound by a keyboard and mouse. Open your eyes and look past what you already know from the classical computer model. It will most certainly disappear. Why not help it move along by adopting the finger based UI.

That is why I support apple's move to boycott flash, as a vast number of flash based programs require things like mouse over etc.

Think different.

Right. And finger painting is superior to using brushes. And people should also write using their fingers as well, to heck with pens and pencils. Don't eat with a fork, use your hands!

The mouse and keyboard are tools. Tools allow us to be more efficient. If we aren't using tools, we are basically a bunch of monkeys tapping away at our devices. I like my iPad too, but there is NO WAY a touch UI is the future for pro work. That would be an absolute disaster/nightmare.

 

[applesupergeek]

Hardware is a higher priority right now. Snow Leopard is still a mixed bag.

in your humble opinion...🙄

From the column:

I figured this might happen. Knowing what I know about Apple's development teams, they are incredibly flexible, and individual members can be switched from one product to another as needs arise. Also, there were, prior to the iPhone introduction, 3 development teams: One handling fixes to the current generation of Mac OS, one developing the next Mac OS, and one handling all the other things that run on Mac OS that Apple sells (Final Cut, iTunes, etc. - since all these products rarely get updated all at once, one team handles them all). With the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad, 6 new teams were introduced: 2 per device. These 6 teams collaborate frequently to make sure a baseline feature set is maintained for each device-specific OS release.

Anyway, that said... Apple obviously wishes to focus on iPhone OS 4, and since their 9-team system is so flexible they can take developers away from other teams to help the iPhone teams out.

Very interesting...

I'd also like to see a new bent to 10.7 -- responding to CUSTOMER REQUESTS and TOG's USABILITY FEEDBACK. (...)

What is TOG ?😕

I'm hoping for a darker theme in 10.7. Basically make Quicktime X's UI system wide and I'll be a happy camper.

I despise the darker elements, and still hate the dark pop up on cmd click a dock app... it will cheapen the appeal for me, I don't even like "marble" in itunes...Hopefully, someone will come up with a plug in that restores aqua elements if apple take that route...


As for OS X my wish list is as follows (off the top of my head)
a. Resolution Independence
b. Much better integration with the cloud
c. a new, or better fs

And I ll be a happy camper.

 

[SansArc]

Whatever. OS X is still stable and is very polished. As long as they are updating the hardware, I don't see the problem. 2011? So? We will still see os updates and I won't have to worry about my current softwares getting outdated so fast. Their touch platforms need love too😎.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

Really? A finger based UI is the ultimate professional content creation? LOL

I'd love to see how professionals try and use the Final Cut suite with touch input. What a nightmare.

Obviously the interface for a touch Final Cut would have to be radically different. That doesn't mean we won't eventually see it happen. There's a lot to like about the idea about cutting and rearranging and adjusting video and audio clips Minority Report style.

But we're not going to be doing this on keyboardless iMacs. This is going to have to be in-the-table type displays.

 

[coleridge78]

excuse me for living a$$wipe, but this is a forum NOT a World Wide Developers Conference. i chose to use simple terms and keep it as general as possible for a reason. the person i was writing too was obviously ignorant to the fact that iPhone OS had started life as OS X. i was only seeking to clear up any confusion he may have had.

if you care to argue that iPhone OS came from somewhere else then go right ahead, otherwise take your holier than though attitude somewhere else.

I appreciate the vulgarity of your strawman, but I didn't say they didn't have some common roots. I said that your portrayal of how easily things go back and forth, and minimizing of their divergences, is simply wrong.

 

[greg400]

in your humble opinion...🙄
I despise the darker elements, and still hate the dark pop up on cmd click a dock app... it will cheapen the appeal for me, I don't even like "marble" in itunes...Hopefully, someone will come up with a plug in that restores aqua elements if apple take that route...

Aqua fit the design of their products for that period of time. It no longer fits any of their computers except for the white MacBook and Mac Mini. A darker UI would match the black bezel around the majority of their computers. If you haven't been taking notice of how Apple designs their UI it's always based on how the computer looks. White computers? White UI. Aluminum Computers? Aluminum UI. I expect that trend to follow.

 

[RT2020]

Dear Apple, in case you missed it you have $40 billion in the bank. Go hire some more people and train them. It's disturbing from an investor perspective and a fanboy point of view that Apple's management is incapable of scaling up. Obviously, coming up with an updated OS, for both the iPhone and Mac, couldn't have been a real surprise to Apple's upper management. Everything else falls by the way side as Steve focuses on his new hot thing. Very frustrating to all.

Who cares about the investor perspective? It's simply unacceptable from a consumer perspective. I will not buy thousands of dollars of apple hardware when they can't even be bothered to keep OSX updated.

Honestly, how big is the OSX team? two or three people?

Windows 7 is already far more stable than Snow Leopard, more flexible, and a heck of a lot more powerful. They just need to replace that damn ugly Aero UI.

 

[applesupergeek]

Aqua fit the design of their products for that period of time. It no longer fits any of their computers except for the white MacBook and Mac Mini. A darker UI would match the black bezel around the majority of their computers. If you haven't been taking notice of how Apple designs their UI it's always based on how the computer looks. White computers? White UI. Aluminum Computers? Aluminum UI. I expect that trend to follow.

I too expect it to follow, but I disagree if aqua fits or not, I thinks aqua is a classic design and fits just fine. I think they got it right and I d hate to see it go, it's all a matter or preferences and taste.

 

[coleridge78]

Windows 7 is already far more stable than Snow Leopard, more flexible, and a heck of a lot more powerful. They just need to replace that damn ugly Aero UI.

Oh? Do tell...

 

[RT2020]

No, i'm certainly not joking.
Apart from programming or long winded novel writing..... a finger based UI is the ultimate in personal computing for user/professional created content and content consumption.

Don't be so naive. I'm not sure if you were around at the transition from command line to the GUI. Productivity increased 100x and kept increasing as the gui matured. I see the same thing happening here as the keyboard and mouse are replaced by finger/hand gestures. Obviously it's not happening overnight just as command to gui hasn't changed overnight. The software needs to mature, and developers need to rework the way programs work so that all aspects of their program are set free and not bound by a keyboard and mouse. Open your eyes and look past what you already know from the classical computer model. It will most certainly disappear. Why not help it move along by adopting the finger based UI.

That is why I support apple's move to boycott flash, as a vast number of flash based programs require things like mouse over etc.

Think different.

How am I supposed to do 3D modelling and architectural drafting with my finger?

We invented pens and pencils because finger painting was too primitive. The same thing goes with using a precision pointing device instead of a fat finger.

There are still some of us who use our computers for productive tasks.

 

[greg400]

I too expect to follow, but I disagree if aqua fits or not, I thinks aqua is a classic design and fits just fine. I think they got it right and I d hate to see it go, it's all a matter or preferences and taste.

I never said I disliked it, I just think it feels out of place with the rest of the UI. *shrug*

 

[TennisandMusic]

Oh? Do tell...

Uh...he's right.

 

[Corbin052198]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.50 (Nintendo DSi; Opera/507; U; en-US))

There is another possibility. The MacOS and the iPhoneOS may merge. That would be good. It is the data that matters.

Well, considering that some Mac OS X applications require little change to run on iPhone OS, and that both OSes are based on the same core (Darwin), I'd say they have already started 😉

 

[Digital Skunk]

Obviously the interface for a touch Final Cut would have to be radically different. That doesn't mean we won't eventually see it happen. There's a lot to like about the idea about cutting and rearranging and adjusting video and audio clips Minority Report style.

But we're not going to be doing this on keyboardless iMacs. This is going to have to be in-the-table type displays.

True, it would be cool for most consumers, but even in Minority Report, the guy's home computer still had a keyboard, and he wasn't flying through murder footage for HOURS. I am sure his arm would've gotten tired.

 

[O and A]

os XI

It wouldn't surprise if we never saw 10.7

I've always imagined Apple would introduce OS XI by 2011. This may be farfetched though as iPhone OS has clearly diverted the focus from OS X. Good example being the delay we saw with Snow Leopard.

And I also imagine OS XI being built from ground up with touch capabilities built in to support macs with mutlitouch screens. What better way to introduce the next 10 years in computing than with OS XI with full multitouch.

 

[RT2020]

Oh? Do tell...

Yes, it's the sad truth. I use both on a regular basis, and Windows 7 has been flawless. But it's not a coincidence...

Did you know that Windows 7 had eight million beta users testing over the span of half a year? That's a pretty staggering number, and the largest beta in history. That does wonders for working out the bugs?

How many people saw Snow Leopard before it was released? A handful within apple? Look at the amount of complaints for Snow Leopard stability within this thread alone?

 

[coleridge78]

Right. And finger painting is superior to using brushes. And people should also write using their fingers as well, to heck with pens and pencils. Don't eat with a fork, use your hands!

The mouse and keyboard are tools. Tools allow us to be more efficient. If we aren't using tools, we are basically a bunch of monkeys tapping away at our devices. I like my iPad too, but there is NO WAY a touch UI is the future for pro work. That would be an absolute disaster/nightmare.

On the other hand, you don't use a spring-loaded claw to move pieces of paper around on your desk. It is self-evidently not so black and white. Mouse and keyboard allow us to be efficient at pointing and entering text.

Text entry will always be an important component--language is fundamental to humanity, after all--but it's not required for every task. And it is very, very much up for debate whether the mouse is even the best tool for pointing, not to even get into whether pointing as we know it is the best way to deal with an interface. For most of what you do with a mouse, a finger is in fact much more efficient because your brain is wired to coordinate touching something with your fingertip.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.65.3438&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Selection and contact with a target is far faster with a fingertip. The error rate in this study was much higher than the mouse, but 1) the target was only 16 pixels on a giant tabletop display, which seems quite unrealistic and 2) the limiting factor there is technological cleverness which is inevitably improving. The limiting factor on pointing with a mouse is a few billion years of evolution that doesn't leave our brain prepared to use a disconnected thing on a desk to touch something in front of our eyes, particularly without a lot of practice.

 

[wankey]

As a human factors guy, and I know a number of people who echo this sentiment, I feel that while OS X may be built on some robust technology (Quartz, QuickTime etc etc), it is a usability nightmare. From accidentally launching docked apps, to constantly re-sizing windows to annoyingly small file select dialogs to a lack of creative 'Microsoft Notes / Courier' like next gen interface technology etc etc. (I know many who MUCH prefer the snappy spacious nature of OS 9 - myself included.) Stability is the only real benefit of OS X.

As I stated on my blog over a year ago, Apple should focus on turning 'iPhone' OS into their primary OS - with tight cloud based architecture and semantic file storage and sharing technology. Using creative apps on iPhone OS is, no matter their initial simplicity, an order of magnitude more intuitive and fun than any OS X equivalent.

I for one would pay big money for a multi-touch 27" 'iMac Touch' with an MS Courier like GUI for spontaneous accurate creativity and productivity.

No matter what Apple have invested in OS X, they have to consider the future. It is just not good enough from a usability angle.

So toast me!

Same, I am also in user interface design and I've started using AlfredApp now to launch my apps and folders and hiding the dock. Comparing the User experience of OS X and even Linux, Linux wins far ahead. Dragging windows is a problem, resizing them is a problem, maximizing them is a terrible ordeal. I've tried to get used to Safari's maximize, and every time I click it, it resizes my window to an arbitrarily small size and then shifts it about 300 pixels down and 40 pixels to the left (ie half is off my screen)

OS X 10.7 needs to seriously look at some user interaction issues, fix up the dock, have some big sweeping changes.

 

[Corbin052198]

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.50 (Nintendo DSi; Opera/507; U; en-US))

...not forgetting the fact that they've run out of cat names

How about:

Mac OS X 10.7 “Shepard”, and have the logo be a German Shepard?

 

[coleridge78]

How am I supposed to do 3D modelling and architectural drafting with my finger?

We invented pens and pencils because finger painting was too primitive. The same thing goes with using a precision pointing device instead of a fat finger.

There are still some of us who use our computers for productive tasks.

Comparing a touch interface to finger painting rather than using brushes is simply inapt. The two have nothing to do with each other... if you think there is an analogy there, you might explain it.