I just went back to Leopard after using SL since launch. My personal USB boot key died so I've been back to the managed Leopard install on the work laptop. I'm curious what felt like a downgrade, because going back to Leopard for me has been painful. I don't drive my machine that hard though, really... the web browser and XCode get a workout, and I do a fair amount of H.264 screen capture. Other than that I'm largely sshing to remote SUSE servers for good old C/Perl/Ruby coding. I've noticed in particular that SL *greatly* improved stability with anything movie-related.
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Apple's Focus on iPhone OS 4 Diverting Resources From Mac OS X 10.7?
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I just went back to Leopard after using SL since launch. My personal USB boot key died so I've been back to the managed Leopard install on the work laptop. I'm curious what felt like a downgrade, because going back to Leopard for me has been painful. I don't drive my machine that hard though, really... the web browser and XCode get a workout, and I do a fair amount of H.264 screen capture. Other than that I'm largely sshing to remote SUSE servers for good old C/Perl/Ruby coding. I've noticed in particular that SL *greatly* improved stability with anything movie-related.
Apple is taking a risk in diverting resources (allegedly) from 10.7.
I think Apple has Google envy. Elsewhere in Gruber's post he mentions that the reason 10.7 is being delayed is that anything that doesn't have to do with mobile and competing with Android is taking a back seat.
Microsoft had Google envy and the result was Windows Vista. Let's hope Apple doesn't pull their own Vista.
I think Apple has Google envy. Elsewhere in Gruber's post he mentions that the reason 10.7 is being delayed is that anything that doesn't have to do with mobile and competing with Android is taking a back seat.
Microsoft had Google envy and the result was Windows Vista. Let's hope Apple doesn't pull their own Vista.
Probably a good thing for OS X
iPhone was born from out of OS X, but as iPhone's OS evolves it will most likely have a lot to offer back to OS X. By 2012, OS X may start to implement what iPhone has learnt.
iPhone was born from out of OS X, but as iPhone's OS evolves it will most likely have a lot to offer back to OS X. By 2012, OS X may start to implement what iPhone has learnt.
ah, now we're getting somewhere.
why don't you define OS, since you seem to know better than I?
when you showed up the only point i was trying to make, with someone else mind you, was that iPhone OS had come from OS X desktop. and now it appears from your response that even that simple fact of OS X evolution escapes you. the GUI alone does not make the OS. just because iPhone OS "looks" (your word environments) so much different than OS X desktop, doesn't mean they are lightyears apart, and it certainly doesn't require any context.
by the way, i've noticed i'm not the only one on here you've been passing off as ignorant. you obviously think very highly of yourself.
No. That's the point. It had one meaning a long time ago, and now it's drifted and can mean a lot of similar-but-different things depending on what exactly you're talking about. It's a lot easier if you just say what it is you're talking about specifically.
"Environment" isn't a synonym for "looks".
Particularly in the computing world. And yeah, there's been an unusual number of ignoramuses in this thread. I mean, beyond the usual stuff. This has been ignorance in new and exciting fields that coincidentally I know something about, so I waded in...
I only mean to be argumentative to the jerks, you seem ok.Oh please. Give me a break. You are comparing two radically different changes. One is minimal and not needed while the other was evolutionary and necessary. If you seriously think touch is the future for actual professional computing LIKE YOU STATED, then you are a complete dolt. Have you actually used the Final Cut Suite or are you too busy fiddling around with iFart apps and using Safari intermittently? Anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows that you can't simply rewrite something like the Final Cut Suite. Please do some research and actually look at how all of the different apps work in the Final Cut Suite before you start pulling random info out of your ass.
Also how do I come from a group of people who want touch on a desktop OS? That's the COMPLETE opposite of what I'm saying. You just lack any actual knowledge of computer applications that need more fidelity and accuracy then your fingers. Sorry, but you are the one lacking foresight here.
Mostly UI-related things, because Apple went and changed some of the stuff I was so used to, namely Exposé (eventually I discovered the hack to use the old-style one). I don't want to argue which one is better, it's just the matter of preference. Apple really should give us more options to set up our workspaces the way we like.
I do run Snow Leopard though, because the developer tools are great.
Says who? This is an absolutely textbook case of "obvious in hindsight". Made famous by people who look at a patent on a personal lunar orbiter that fits in your backpack and makes waffles once it zips you into space and establishes ground contact... "I know about the moon! I know about waffles! I have a cell phone! I could totally have made that, it's so obvious!"
You are powerfully, radically wrong. And missing his point. What you're saying here, he's already thoroughly explained why you're wrong.
Ah, gotcha. I could see that. My wife loves Expose, I don't use it personally (except the "reveal desktop" function) since I like to keep my hands on the keyboard as much as possible.
Says who? Says everyone who's already mentioned this in this thread. If you SERIOUSLY think you are going to get hours upon hours of editing done on a multitouch device then you are in for one HELL of a ride. I don't care how advanced your pinch to zoom features are, it would be nothing short of a complete downgrade from a keyboard and mouse. There's a reason why there's still a keyboard pop up on the iPad. There's a reason why every app is isolated to one window.
Oh really, he's already explained how multitouch is superior to a mouse and keyboard? I guess that's why there's still a keyboard pop up on the iPad. All multitouch is, is a clunkier alternative. The fact of the matter is, the Final Cut Suite just CAN'T be re-written for multi touch. It's far too complicated for use with it, not like you would know anything about that because I'm sure all you use your computer for is watching YouTube videos and checking your E-Mail.
Do you have anything to contribute other than, "BECAUSE I SAID SO, JUST YOU WAIT!" I'm just wondering, because I've already mentioned specifically the research going on in this space whereas you seem to have bare-assed assertions and Caps Lock and not much else.
(And in case you're curious, I check my e-mail using SMTP and IMAP tools that contain my code. There's a very good chance you do too. But I'd rather get into the relevant research, not my resume.)
I think Apple knows that Mac OS X is a top-notch operating system that is on a par with Windows 7. The things they should add to Mac OS X is:
After that, I figure that Mac OS X is done.
I also think that Apple has no idea what Mac OS 11 should be like. I figure they look at the mobile computing platform (iPads, for instance) as the next revolution in how people use computers. We will have two types of computers - general purpose computers (macs) and content consumption devices. If the latter is to be the larger market, then their focus is correctly placed.
...and for the record, I'm still angry about the fact that Apple removed the shelf from the system preferences in 10.3 -> 10.4.
- Resolution independence.
- ZFS file system.
- Unified and polished GUI.
- Minor OS polishes.
After that, I figure that Mac OS X is done.
I also think that Apple has no idea what Mac OS 11 should be like. I figure they look at the mobile computing platform (iPads, for instance) as the next revolution in how people use computers. We will have two types of computers - general purpose computers (macs) and content consumption devices. If the latter is to be the larger market, then their focus is correctly placed.
...and for the record, I'm still angry about the fact that Apple removed the shelf from the system preferences in 10.3 -> 10.4.
- Why don't you discuss without offending people personally ("making you feel stupid") ?
- I don't think finger input is the solution for everything, esp not for professional artwork. Remember: Many gfx professionals do not even use a mouse because it is not precise enough. They use a Wacom instead. Finger input would be much worse than a mouse. And in some cases even artists prefer to enter a number to determine the radius of a circle when it has to be exact.
The same applies to a keyboard. A good secretary can do 500+ strokes per minute. You won't do that on an onscreen keyboard or by writing letters with your hand or a stylus or by speech recognition.
While touch interfaces have their benefits they are not the perfect solution for everything. The future is the right tool for the right job.
Christian
Typical, someone comments on the way I wrote something because they can't come up with anything actual relevant to reply with. Please point me in the direction of this "research" you mentioned. I'd love to see it, coming from someone accusing me of bare-assed assertions.
Oh and no, I'm really not curious. You just reinforced the fact that you have no idea how Pro apps work and you have never used them once in your life.
To be fair, the person he was responding to has been a flagrant flame-bot in this thread.
Quite right. I'd note that drawing is a much different application from video editing, which has been the example of choice for the particularly egregious flaming troll in this thread.
You are correct. Further, you have been quoted so many times in this thread, plenty of other people strongly agree with you. I refer you all to my post on the first page of this thread. Apple should, for example, do a compatibility update to 10.4.11 to make it aware of and compatible with current hardware and services.
Apple should continue evolving 10.6 in particular until it is as stable as, or more so, than 10.4.11 with so many more capabilities in terms of hardware and services.
But remember there is a large set of mutually exclusive services and capabilities between the two. Why not have an official policy of making legacy installs accessable via iPad with remote access.
If one were to fixate on any one aspect of this post, it should be the suggestion to fixate on 10.6 x for the entire expected cycle of 10.7.
The whole problem is 10.6 is only barely tolerable now with the release of .3, and 10.7 won't be worth a crap till 10.7.3 which is YEARS off.
The people buying macs should have a STABLE OS out of the box and the OPTION to upgrade or dual boot to whatever bleeding edge less stable OS Apple is pushing.
Apple should ALLOW some people to be "trailing edge adopters". Please?
Rocketman
Amusing. You missed the earlier links, apparently? Why do you think I said that?
And if by "the way I wrote something" you mean "you pointed out that I'm shouting a lot but offering no evidence", then yes, guilty as charged!
"Pro apps" work by allowing people to get their work done. If you can't possibly conceive of any better way to do that than how it's currently done, then I'm glad that the world has other people out there that are interested in and curious about advancements. Though I'm a little dismayed that you apparently work in a "creative" field...
A flagrant flame-bot for not believing your opinion on multi touch computing. Ok buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night. Have fun playing around with Expose for the first time in your life.
Oh, you mean that 50 page pdf that no one would bother looking through after your absolutely atrocious analogy? Gee, I wonder what's more advanced... moving around a couple pieces of paper or actually writing on that piece of paper... tough choice. You also mean that same exact post where you state "The error rate in this study was much higher than the mouse". Haha, so what was your point again, that you prefer inaccurate technology that only works on single window applications? Have a look at a typical Final Cut work space on a desktop computer and tell me how that work on something like say... an iPad. Just tell me how you would go about re-writing that entire application with the same functionality and usability without it being clunkier, slower and more tedious. Please, i'm begging for your reply.
As for this "shouting", three words in caps really stand out to you that much, then you need to learn how to comprehend behind these big shiny words that you apparently can't look past.
Oh and for the record, I'm not saying there is never going to be anything better than a mouse and keyboard. I'm saying multitouch is never going to be better than a mouse and keyboard.
Ok, I am sorry for that.
Of course. Drawing is a thing that is done with a stylus (not with a finger) by nature. Choosing something (like you do on a media player or browser) is done by finger quite naturally. Entering your destination into a navigation system by speech recognition while driving is a good solution while probably nothing beats a keyboard for a programmer or a typist. I think if you do complex video editing with multiple animated layers etc. finger input can be to coarse to put some things in position precisely. For a consumer that does iMovie like sequencing only finger input may be a good solution. I simply think it does not make sense to propagate a single type of UI for everything.
Christian
I agree. Unfortunatly, Apple is in the business of selling new computers and new copies of OS X rather than taking good care of the customers who still rely and work with their older OS X versions.
It isn't my opinion that multi-touch enables a number of specific common tasks to be done more quickly than with a mouse. Nor is it my opinion that for many common tasks it's already just as accurate, and the pace of technological advances make it very clear that barring some unforeseen fundamental roadblock, the differences in accuracy for most (not all) uses will be irrelevant within something closer to two years than twenty.
You should read more carefully. "More advanced" has nothing to do with that analogy. The point is that, in real life, you do have to move that piece of paper around. You move pieces of paper more often than you write on them, inherently. Yet you don't use a tool for it... why?
Again, apparently, your attention span faded after that sentence. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're not intentionally being dishonest. The accuracy question has been discussed.
Just tell me how you would go about re-writing ImageMagick to use that mouse thing. You can't give a mouse numbers!
And four in the post before that, but who's counting.
Absolutely. I slightly disagree in that I think eventually there will be a clever interface for doing pixel-perfect more easily with a finger than a mouse--in fact, I think that even the obvious approach of zoom-and-touch might already be there, given a sufficient display and touchpad. Fact is, doing pixel-perfect with a mouse already requires (for almost everyone) zooming and an exceptionally steady hand. The mouse doesn't inherently "make" it come together. But that's a total guess. I'd be really, really interested to see it studied.
Yes, a number of very simple tasks that require very little fidelity. I never said anything about common tasks, have I? I've been talking strictly about Pro apps that require actual precision. Something that you apparently can't grasp your head around.
You don't use a tool for it because you don't need any precision for that, this isn't rocket science. It's the exact same principle.
Right, the accuracy question has been discussed and stated by yourself as being inaccurate. Great job.
Once again you reply with some braindead response because you know damn well that it's not possible to have Final Cut work better with multitouch surface over a keyboard and mouse. Sorry your point is null and void and all you are doing is grasping at straws trying to save yourself.
I guess that's why your arguments are spreading so thin now? Maybe you should actually focus on the content you are reading as opposed to the punctuation used.