thing is they don't need to be the same just have similar software features if the option is there. the interview seems to suggest we may see something in software but who knows.
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Apple's Greg Joswiak: No Plans to Merge Mac and iPad
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It seems so obvious that the end goal has to be some form of desktop experience when connected to an external monitor/accessories.
90% of what people do on the go can be done with an iPad. The problem is with the last 10%. It's problematic enough that it makes a lot of people purchase MBAirs instead of iPad pros, and worse for Apple, Surface Pros (let's be honest, vast majority of people would love to get an iPad pro but can't or won't buy two portable computers). Give iPad users a safety net in the form of the ability to run MacOS apps (not the OS, just the apps) in case they really need it and you'll see a lot of people move to tablet-first on-the-go.
It's mostly psychological and similar to range anxiety in EVs. Personally, I purchased my first ever Mac just after the transition to intel because I was anxious about not being able to execute some tasks on Macs. With intel, I knew that in the worst case, I could just bootcamp my way out of trouble. Turns out, I barely never used bootcamp but it was useful in the sense that it was reassuring to know I wouldn't be limited.
It's mostly psychological and similar to range anxiety in EVs. Personally, I purchased my first ever Mac just after the transition to intel because I was anxious about not being able to execute some tasks on Macs. With intel, I knew that in the worst case, I could just bootcamp my way out of trouble. Turns out, I barely never used bootcamp but it was useful in the sense that it was reassuring to know I wouldn't be limited.
People really need to watch (or rewatch) the Grand Theory of Apple.
Once you understand how Apple views product design, it will become painfully clear that the majority of what this forum has been clamouring (like macOS coming to the iPad) for will never really happen, and why exactly.
Really bad examples, because Apple never claimed any of this.
And thanks to the rumors leaking, it was not much of a surprise.
The first two happened, the last one did not and most likely never will.
Apple especially is very tight lipped about their future products.
So them saying macOS and ipadOS will not merge probably means exactly that.
Because Apple is so obsessed with the thinness of the MacBooks that there is just no room for a really good camera in there. Compare the thickness of the MacBook display flaps with an iPad Pro. No space for the currently available good camera systems. Do you want a camera hump on your MacBook?
Apple can say all they want, but merging is inevitable. It’s just at the cost of reducing macOS into a glorified iPadOS.
This means: no terminal, no BSD, no home brew, no root and admin access. No external application install source. No easy macOS downgrade. App Store only. Single user only.
This means: no terminal, no BSD, no home brew, no root and admin access. No external application install source. No easy macOS downgrade. App Store only. Single user only.
Similar at best. The SoC is now the same for the AS Macs and the iPad Pro, I give you that. Wait until the AS Mac Pro shows up, will be something very different from an iPad.
But... why would they do that? To save development cost? Pro users need their large displays, abundant power and external peripherals. Coders as well. They will never do their job on an iPad like device.
They can cram as much RAM in there as they want. But without a pagefile, a simple switch to Safari to look something up for your M1 Premiere beta workflow, and you‘re back to scratch because the prior app has been purged in the process.
It may have some considerable horsepower but no failsave built in should you use it to its limits.
It may have some considerable horsepower but no failsave built in should you use it to its limits.
I am very confident that apples marketing team and design team will quickly redefine all of those pro workflows to better suite the iPad or as efficient as using keyboard and mouse on an iMac. At the same time, development cost can be cut down drastically, giving apple more money to play with, win win.
Apple always believe their users are dumb people. So yeah.
I don't think Apple's intention is to merge iPad with Mac, but to make both work more connected, but without being the same product, in order to make you buy the iPad + Mac. Every time that fine line is thinner, but I think it will not disappear. I don't think we will have an iPad, which, if you connect it to the keyboard, it will turn into macOS, and when you take it away, it will go back to iPadOS. Both OS will still be different, but more connected.
As a user of an iPad Pro 2020, which I use as a laptop, I really do not need more, it is a great computer, and I do everything I need on it, however it has certain limitations, which I hope will disappear.
On the other hand, the price of the new iPad Pro 12.9" seems excessive to me (I already thought the model I have was expensive, but in Europe the basic one starts at 150€ more than the previous model). And yes, it has a spectacular screen, but if you buy the 256GB (like the one I have) with a MacBook Pro M1, the iPad is more expensive than the MacBook. And really the MacBook has more autonomy, and the keyboard does not degrade with use (the silicone finish of the SmartKeyboard is really bad, in less than a year that I have it, you can see the marks of use a lot, and that I use it very carefully). However, the iPad gives you more freedom and creativity when using the Pencil.
I am a loyal iPad advocate, I've been using it a lot as a "laptop" even with its limitations, and the iPad Pro is an extraordinary computer, but the prices compared to Mac makes you really wonder if it is really worth the iPad Pro instead of a MacBook Pro, and if I would be enough with an iPad Air. Just as the 2016 MacBook Pro turned me off of MacBooks, now with the M1 (and the return to the usual keyboard, being honest) makes me curious about MacBooks again.
As a user of an iPad Pro 2020, which I use as a laptop, I really do not need more, it is a great computer, and I do everything I need on it, however it has certain limitations, which I hope will disappear.
On the other hand, the price of the new iPad Pro 12.9" seems excessive to me (I already thought the model I have was expensive, but in Europe the basic one starts at 150€ more than the previous model). And yes, it has a spectacular screen, but if you buy the 256GB (like the one I have) with a MacBook Pro M1, the iPad is more expensive than the MacBook. And really the MacBook has more autonomy, and the keyboard does not degrade with use (the silicone finish of the SmartKeyboard is really bad, in less than a year that I have it, you can see the marks of use a lot, and that I use it very carefully). However, the iPad gives you more freedom and creativity when using the Pencil.
I am a loyal iPad advocate, I've been using it a lot as a "laptop" even with its limitations, and the iPad Pro is an extraordinary computer, but the prices compared to Mac makes you really wonder if it is really worth the iPad Pro instead of a MacBook Pro, and if I would be enough with an iPad Air. Just as the 2016 MacBook Pro turned me off of MacBooks, now with the M1 (and the return to the usual keyboard, being honest) makes me curious about MacBooks again.
Sure, they could create an iPad mode that runs atop macOS and make a Mac look (and behave) like an iPad. But there are a number of problems with that:
- Given that the only file system access in iPadOS and thus this iPad mode is the On-My-iPad section (and iCloud) if you wanted to have access to a file in both Mac and iPad mode, they would all need to live inside those two folders (and both those folders by default would have a folder for every app that stores user accessible files). Essentially, you would impose the file storage limitations of iPadOS to your macOS usage or don't have access to all your files while in iPad mode.
- There will be plenty of settings which can be changed in Mac mode that aren't accessible in iPad mode (and to a lesser degree also vice versa). This causes two problems: a) you might have to regularly switch modes to change a setting and b) in iPad mode you are running a system that supposedly behaves like an iPad but in reality doesn't because there a lot of things that can be modified in Mac mode but that in pure iPadOS cannot.
- All the security and not-being-able-to-screw-things-up aspects of iPadOS (or more generally iOS) are somewhat compromised. Because even if the UI in iPad mode looks and behaves exactly like on a current iPad (which already isn't really a given, see point (2) above), the underpinnings in terms of file permissions and other things really aren't like on an iPad. This would be like adding a third kind of user account to macOS: admin, user & 'restricted user', that alone wouldn't make a Mac as foolproof as iOS devices are.
I think being able to run Mac apps on the iPad Pro (even if it's in iPadOS) would be good. An iPad for when you're on the go and then docking to a screen in the office (like Samsung Dex) would be useful. Currently, iPadOS on the big screen isn't a great experience though so they would need to sort that out.
ipad os will slowly but surely take over the mac world. in a few years we will see a more refined os which can do anything mac os can do now, but in a more streamlined way. it will completely be under apples appstore control and most people won’t need anything else. we might just connect our portable devices to a larger screen or use bigger ipads which will replace the current imacs.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
Yes, please. I want to honestly assess the iPad's limitations as it pertains to Mac equivalency.
I have a similar experience overall - I do like my iPad pro for doing all the video calls we keep having to do, and for using certain apps, but very quickly when I try to do anything detailed I go running back to my mac in a hurry. I heavily multitask too, and find the iPad just doesn't allow me to work as smoothly and quickly
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
Adding the first (compiler) and second (barely since you can run a browser).
File access is possible (even if "kludgy") and split-screen multitasking being "deficient" is arguable.
But you're making that up. Fair enough, If you leave a safari tab for to long it may reload, but if you navigate away from an app it certainly doesnt 'reset' or purge in any way shape or form. You can quit apps, navigate away, restart the iPad, in some cases it's even possible restore from a recent back up on to a new machine and your work will be exactly where you left it, which is unlike macOS, because you need to cmd s most of the time if you dont want to lose work.
Honestly, people just say words on the internet and they think it becomes true.
There are three major aspects currently separating the Mac and the iPad: cooling, sandboxing, and windowing UI. Let's consider each of these in turn.
Cooling: Even with the M1, it's not going to be solved for the iPad without making it noisy and heavier to the point that degrades its usability as a tablet. In general, no matter how efficient you make your CPU, you can always get more performance by running more of them faster and at least high-end Macs will continue to want that. Not necessarily Macbooks though.
Sandboxing: Application sandboxing is becoming more of a thing everywhere in computing. Ubuntu's Snaps are one prominent example, and Homebrew is a limited example on the Mac. And MacOS has been increasingly sandboxing the system as well. That leaves the user's files. In iOS Files has been making strides in opening up here, so it's not impossible to imagine that they could meet in the middle.
Windowing: Here again there have been convergent steps in both directions, with iPadOS multitasking and Mac full-screen modes. But the gap is still quite a large one, depending on the user. Many users even today use their PCs and Macs almost always in full-screen mode for one app or another. On the other hand you have users who like to use windows and spatial organization and feel harshly confined on the iPad. Being in the latter group, I hope Apple finds a way to expand windowing capabilities in iOS. If nothing else it would make the experience of using an external display on an iPad through a dock much more reasonable.
However, since none of these are insurmountable and trends beyond just Apple are all moving in the same direction, Apple will likely continue to converge the platforms as they've been doing, and then one day will, for example, phase out Macbooks once iOS has come far enough. (And yes, I think it likely iOS will "win" - - it's newer, cleaner, more efficient, more widely used and developed for, and still shares the same core unix kernel as MacOS.)
EDIT: I left out touch vs mouse interface on purpose. Apple's already made a lot of progress converging here, both making touch apps work with a mouse for Catalyst, and promoting trackpads and gestures on the Mac. There will always be apps where one or the other interface works better, but that will be the whole point of the converged device: use a mouse OR touch wherever it's more suitable.
Cooling: Even with the M1, it's not going to be solved for the iPad without making it noisy and heavier to the point that degrades its usability as a tablet. In general, no matter how efficient you make your CPU, you can always get more performance by running more of them faster and at least high-end Macs will continue to want that. Not necessarily Macbooks though.
Sandboxing: Application sandboxing is becoming more of a thing everywhere in computing. Ubuntu's Snaps are one prominent example, and Homebrew is a limited example on the Mac. And MacOS has been increasingly sandboxing the system as well. That leaves the user's files. In iOS Files has been making strides in opening up here, so it's not impossible to imagine that they could meet in the middle.
Windowing: Here again there have been convergent steps in both directions, with iPadOS multitasking and Mac full-screen modes. But the gap is still quite a large one, depending on the user. Many users even today use their PCs and Macs almost always in full-screen mode for one app or another. On the other hand you have users who like to use windows and spatial organization and feel harshly confined on the iPad. Being in the latter group, I hope Apple finds a way to expand windowing capabilities in iOS. If nothing else it would make the experience of using an external display on an iPad through a dock much more reasonable.
However, since none of these are insurmountable and trends beyond just Apple are all moving in the same direction, Apple will likely continue to converge the platforms as they've been doing, and then one day will, for example, phase out Macbooks once iOS has come far enough. (And yes, I think it likely iOS will "win" - - it's newer, cleaner, more efficient, more widely used and developed for, and still shares the same core unix kernel as MacOS.)
EDIT: I left out touch vs mouse interface on purpose. Apple's already made a lot of progress converging here, both making touch apps work with a mouse for Catalyst, and promoting trackpads and gestures on the Mac. There will always be apps where one or the other interface works better, but that will be the whole point of the converged device: use a mouse OR touch wherever it's more suitable.
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