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More than once I have heard people saying 'I need to buy a new iPhone, mine is full of photos' (you know, those iPhone users who never connect the phone to a computer) ... THIS is what Apple is aiming for .. either selling people the more expensive higher memory phones, or buying a new one because the old one is FULL ;)
 
For those of you who are complaining about 16GB iPhones... Apple knows about the situation very well. They just want more profit on their Phones. Can you imagine how much the profit would come down if they sell 32GB iPhones instead of 16GB phones? Almost half the people who would've bought the 64GB versions would rather buy the less expansive 32GB phones. There is no way Apple would go for that knowing they would make less money. Would you do that? I doubt that. Especially when people are buying them in droves. Apple makes 92% profit of the entire smartphone industry for a reason.

Here's the thing with what you said—Apple has a literal CRAPTON of money in the bank. I'm pretty sure they can afford to do away with the 16GB tier. But they won't, because they're greedy, and also because people are stupid and will buy it without thinking, because Apple is perfect and everything they do is awesome.

I'm waiting for the day this comes back to bite Apple in the ass.
 
Good luck convincing your company to give you an upgraded work phone instead of the bottom spec even if you are paying for its difference...

Exactly. I could upgrade to 6s just by requesting a new work phone as I'm due for an upgrade, but as it's the bottom spec one without the possibility of paying for the upgrade, I think I'll just pass as I'd hit that 16GB limit in no time and would be stuck with a useless phone for 2-3 years.
 
Another reason why 16gb entry level is so damn painful
Ended up going with 64GB. I am kind of mad about my inability to just tell Apple "no", lol. I laugh, but it's true. I would have been well off with a 32GB phone too... Needed a new device anyway since switching carriers had me on a 16GB phone and I am sitting with 2GB free and constantly deleting photos and clearing app cache. At the end of the day, it was worth it for me to just get a 64GB device, rather than "stick it" to Apple and have to suffer low available storage space for the next year.
 
At the end of the day, it was worth it for me to just get a 64GB device, rather than "stick it" to Apple and have to suffer low available storage space for the next year.

Naturally if you're going to the iPhone 6s it makes sense to get at least the 64GB model since 32GB isn't available. If Apple truly had user experience as their priority like they've claimed, there wouldn't be a 16GB model of a phone equipped with the 6s photo and video capabilities.
 
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I agree they've lost love from some of the stalwarts who stayed with them through their darker years; people who were in fact customers but who believed themselves to be champions of a feisty underdog. But with the iPhone, that underdog is long gone. Apple might have lost some love, but man: they've gained all the cash.

The reason I'm so addicted to this site is to read the passionate views of the majority - the devotees who haven't gone anywhere and who still believe Apple's success depends on their passion. What other business has that kind of customer? I might like the car I drive, but I certainly don't care what you drive. Yet if I have an iPhone, there's a good chance I care very much that you have one, too. I might question your intellect or morals if you disagree. Even when profit margin is undeniably out of proportion to any competing product, a real fan remains needful and pays up happily.

That's the magic, and more important than love lost.

Hmm. What percentage of people are that fanatical about the Apple brand, really? On a site like MR, you have a few of them, granted. But as for me, and most of the longtime Apple users I know, we don't really fit your description.

I used to be quite a passionate Apple evangelist, back in the day when Windows PCs really did suck. Mac OS crashed every so often, but damn it was fun and easy to use compared to the mess that was the pre-Windows 95 experience. Even after that, I found Windows cumbersome by comparison, but I tired of the arguments, and was happy to concede that you can do pretty much the same stuff on either platform (depending on software availability), so pick whatever works for you.

I feel much the same now in the mobile space. I really don't care whether you have an iPhone or not—unless perhaps you're someone I want to text for free every day, share Calendar events with, etc. ;-) Perhaps that more relaxed attitude just comes with age and maturity? I don't know.

I keep buying Apple stuff for a number of reasons:
  1. My Mac. I rely on it everyday, and I guess I'm an old dog now with many old tricks—shortcuts and efficient workflows—and I just can't imagine switching to Windows (which I still don't enjoy). It would be somewhat easier to switch to other non-Apple devices I think, but I can't imagine giving up my Mac.
  2. Investment in software. I've invested a fair bit of money and time into the software I own on both Mac and iOS. The sense of 'lock-in' is quite real. It doesn't bother me, because I have no burning desire to switch platforms, but for someone on the fence, that would be a real issue.
  3. Despite my complaints in recent years, there are still so many things that Apple does right. And whenever I've used a friend's Android device, I've realised that the grass isn't really greener on the other side. It's a kind of 'uh, really?' experience, where I wonder what all the fuss and hype is about.
But I'll call things as I see them for as long as I could be bothered engaging in the discussions here. Apple may be the best hardware company out there, but some things still suck: the obsession with thinness at such a cost (battery life and a protruding camera on the iPhone, lack of ports on the MacBook), base models that are unnecessarily crippled (16GB iPhones, no Fusion Drive as minimum on the standard config iMacs), and some seriously buggy software (getting worse in recent years).
 
It's not like I couldn't afford the iPhone 6S if I wanted to. Being able to afford something does not prevent me from identifying when I'm being gouged for features that should be there in the first place for the price. My 64GB iPhone 6 should serve me quite well until the iPhone 7 arrives. Let's see if Apple has come to their senses by then. But if an interesting and good enough Android comes up in the meantime, there's not much holding me back especially when features like Apple Pay never seem to become available here.

But that's your perception of being "gouged". It's not Apple's fault that the financial system on your side messes up the Apple Pay system. That said, Apple Pay should work with any NFC payment terminal. There was a video of a college student using it to pay for a drink in a vending machine in Canada when Canada doesn't even support Apple Pay. The machine was enabled with an NFC payment system. The student was an American who was attending a Canadian university and who had an American based iPhone with Apple Pay set up on it.
 
But that's your perception of being "gouged". It's not Apple's fault that the financial system on your side messes up the Apple Pay system. That said, Apple Pay should work with any NFC payment terminal. There was a video of a college student using it to pay for a drink in a vending machine in Canada when Canada doesn't even support Apple Pay. The machine was enabled with an NFC payment system. The student was an American who was attending a Canadian university and who had an American based iPhone with Apple Pay set up on it.

Terminals here are ready. I've used NFC payments with a prepaid NFC sticker, but the system for loading more balance to that sticker is a nightmare to use, so I'd really prefer Apple Pay. Tourists who have Apple Pay enabled have reported successful purchases here, so what comes to infrastructure everything should be good to go. I've also heard that payment operators over here would be interested in Apple Pay, but so far Apple hasn't given much priority to getting the contracts sorted out. We don't even have the Apple Watch here yet, so it looks like Apple is pretty much ignoring us, unless there's an opportunity to raise prices, that is. It'll be both interesting and frightening to see how much the iPad Pro and the Apple Pencil will cost here. Despite my complaints about the iPhone pricing I'm interested in the iPad Pro and the Pencil.
 
Terminals here are ready. I've used NFC payments with a prepaid NFC sticker, but the system for loading more balance to that sticker is a nightmare to use, so I'd really prefer Apple Pay. Tourists who have Apple Pay enabled have reported successful purchases here, so what comes to infrastructure everything should be good to go. I've also heard that payment operators over here would be interested in Apple Pay, but so far Apple hasn't given much priority to getting the contracts sorted out. We don't even have the Apple Watch here yet, so it looks like Apple is pretty much ignoring us, unless there's an opportunity to raise prices, that is. It'll be both interesting and frightening to see how much the iPad Pro and the Apple Pencil will cost here. Despite my complaints about the iPhone pricing I'm interested in the iPad Pro and the Pencil.
Unless I am mistaken, the only contracts between apple and anyone are banks and credit unions. Storefronts don't have any affiliation or agreements with Apple. Any logos or otherwise are purely for advertisement purposes.
 
Unless I am mistaken, the only contracts between apple and anyone are banks and credit unions. Storefronts don't have any affiliation or agreements with Apple. Any logos or otherwise are purely for advertisement purposes.

That's correct. The largest credit union in Finland has been quite positive about Apple Pay coming here, but so far nothing has happened and it's not like Apple Pay would be too broadly available elsewhere in Europe either.
 
Exactly. I could upgrade to 6s just by requesting a new work phone as I'm due for an upgrade, but as it's the bottom spec one without the possibility of paying for the upgrade, I think I'll just pass as I'd hit that 16GB limit in no time and would be stuck with a useless phone for 2-3 years.
I am in the same boat...just got my 5s 16GB half year ago because the old phone went dead. Talked to Verizon and our company's phone coordinator about getting the higher storage one but no luck...
Currently, with all the apps that the company required us to put in, there is only 6 GB left...
 
How can Apple say its not a video, when it is ?

It takes a 2x the space, and its "moving" that's a video.. regardless on the length.

They just needed a new name.
 
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How can Apple say its not a video, when it is ?

It takes a 2x the space, and its "moving" that's a video.. regardless on the length.

They just needed a new name.
Semantics I guess. Is a .gif a video? Some might say so. I think this is a very dumbed down video, relatively low fps, and if I had to guess, it's actually a 1080p screen at most. Regardless, Apple has a knack for making up new terms. We don't have HD screens, we have retina. We don't make nfc payments, we use apple pay.
 
Why do people refer to iCloud as the solution for lack of space on 16GB phone? It's not: iCloud just makes a copy of your files in the cloud. But they're still on the phone a well.

In the new Photos app you do have the option to Optimize Storage but that only goes so far. My iCloud Photo library has 15.000+ photos on it and I cannot enable iCloud Photos on my current 16GB iPhone and iPad because there's not enough room on them.

What? my 20k library is 80gb but optimised takes up less than 2gb on my phone...

iCloud requires a constant internet connection, and that takes up GB of my plan.
Wake me up when carriers catch up with the tech and don't charge over €25 for a measly 1GB of data.

Also what? Just use iCloud Photos over wifi only then, that way you won't get charged...you don't need a consistent connection unless you're browsing non-local images all the time, and they download after the first time you open them anyway
 
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My mom knows about tech as much as a seagull about quantum physics. I bought her iPhone 5S as a present when it first came out. The phone and iCloud storage were full maybe 2 months after that.

My parents live far from the city and we have goats and bees and 5 dachshunds :D lots of land and a beautiful view anyway you look. Its a crime not to safe those moments for later generations.


So tell me exactly who the hell for is that 16 GB iPhone? Someone who has 5 contacts in the phone, doesn't take pictures or video and doesn't do basically **** with it?

Agree with you.

Fundamentally the issue lies with those defending the 16GB units and masses just like them that purchase them. Why should apple offer a higher capacity when suckers will purchase a 16Gb unit and also purchase iCloud space.

What I do not get is people who would never purchase the 16GB unit , though defend it.....

Moving to iCloud sounds great in practice , and people are justifying a 16GB unit, to these people I say , try a backup restore from iCloud! Mine just finished after 2.5 days..... Never again, when my 6S arrives I'm using a Mac.
The problem is not everyone has high speed internet or 4G coverage.
 
That doesn't matter - the 16GB price tier should be 32GB, and the only reason it isn't is to allow for Apple's inflated margins to be even more so.

No. Apple is not ripping off anyone.

You are not looking at the big picture. You are simply focusing on how YOU benefit from getting a 32GB phone for the price of a 16GB. This is short term thinking. Just thinking about saving $100 TODAY.

Do you think Apple's profits are obscene? Their profit margin is only about 23% the last 2 years. Microsoft and Google have higher profit margins at about 25%. So is Apple really ripping off customers? For every ONE dollar of goods they sell they only make 23 cents profit.

If Apple made the 1st tier 32GB than many who would have bought the 64GB phone would opt for the 32GB. For each of those decisions Apple would lose close to $100 in profit. The upgrades from 16 to 64 to 128 is almost pure profit. $100 may not sound like much to company like Apple but you need to realize how many phones they sell. Here is theoretical calculation:

Apple sells about 250 million iPhones a year.
Apple sells about 35% at the 2nd tier - 64GB
If Apple moves the first tier to 32 GB they could lose about 40% of the 64GB buyers
They will lose close to $90 of pure profit from those who decide to get the 32GB instead of the 64GB.

250,000,000 x 35% = 87.5 milion 64GB buyers
87.5 million x 40% = 35 million buyers who decide to get the 32GB instead of the 64GB
35 million x $95 of lost profit per phone = $3.3 billion in lost profit

Last year Apple made $40 billion in profit. A decrease of $3.3 billion is HUGE. That almost 8% of profits lost.

But you may say who cares if Apple makes $37 billion instead of $40 billion. That's still alot of money. But you should care. Because if Apple's profits begin dipping, even a little it could damage the company. Just look at late 2012 and early 2013. The stock tanked 45% in a matter of 6 months. Why? Because profits were down. Were they down 40%? Down 50%. No. The profits were down a mere 5% and the stock tanked big time.

But why as a consumer care about Apple's stock price? You should care because the stock price has a DIRECT EFFECT on the quality of product Apple can produce. For most of the top talent that works at Apple, 90% of their compensation is from stock options. So if the stock tanks or is flat their pay will be drastically effected. Because of this many of the TOP EMPLOYEES will be targeted by other firms who can offer much higher pay because of stock options that grow in value while Apple's does not. Bottom line is with a weak stock price Apple will not be able to retain top talent. Without top talent Apple cannot produce the awesome products we all love.

In addition without the profits Apple cannot support and grow its ecosystem. Without strong profits Apple won't be able to have the money to spend on R&D, acquisitions, and investments in facilities and cutting edge technologies. Other companies like Samsung simply copy Apple's innovations. Apple on the other hand spends BILLIONS in R&D. Companies like Samsung pay very little to run Android on their smartphones. Apple has to invest BILLIONS to keeping iOS running well and improving it every year. Without strong profits Apple would have to cut corners and that would hurt the quality of product.

The bottom line is the iPhone is a premium product. It will cost more than a Samsung or HTC. Just as a BMW will cost more than a Kia. But you get what you pay for. Is there any doubt that an iPhone is a more quality product than a Samsung/HTC? If so then be willing to pay a few more bucks for that quality. And be happy that those extra dollars will be investing in Apple R&D/top talent/ect to keep pumping out awesome products.

Here is a conversation I overheard the other day:

Concerned Troll: Yo, Tim Cook how is the iPhone sales going?

Tim Cook: Its going great! We can't even keep up with demand! We are sold out for the next 4 weeks.

Concerned Troll: Yo, Tim I got a great idea for next year.

Tim Cook: Lets hear it.

Concerned Troll: Next year you should give 16GB free to the low end phone.

Tim Cook: ok......


The point is Apple can't even keep up with demand when the iPhone launches! Why the hell would they discount their phones by giving memory free for the low tier? This strong demand continues through the holiday season and through Chinese New Year in February. So why would Apple sell iPhones at a discount when they can't keep up with demand for the first 6 months of release? It would be pure stupidity.

But guess what happens in March when the demand 'weakens'? We see all kinds of deals on iPhones. Last year BestBuy was giving $100 gift cards on all iPhone6 phones purchased. T-mobile and Sprint was doing the same. In other words you could get the 64GB iPhone6 for the price of the 16GB iPhone at launch. The bottom line is if someone is willing to wait 6 months after release they CAN get a 64GB iPhone for $650. They just need to wait a bit until the demand equalizes with supply.

So if 16GB isn't for you, you have 2 options. Either shell out the extra $100 and get the 64GB phone or wait 6 months and buy the iPhones at a discount. If you can't wait then shell out the $100. And what the hell is $100 anyway? Spread over 2 years thats about $4 a month. Are you going to really die from shelling out $4 more a month for the 64GB model? If so then the iPhone isn't for you. You probably are better off buying a $300 Android phone or a used iPhone. The bottom line is you gotta pay to play. PERIOD. There are tens of millions of other people who are willing to pay.

Apple is not greedy. Their profit margin is only 23%. They need to make profits to continue to support their awesome ecosystem, retain the best talent, and invest in R&D and new technologies. The demand for iPhone is so high in the first 6 months of release it is UNREASONABLE to expect Apple to 'discount' their top end phones. Those who have a tight budget and can't spend the extra $100 should either wait a few months till discount deals come around or realize that maybe a cheaper used iPhone or Android would be the smarter thing to do.
 
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Semantics I guess. Is a .gif a video? Some might say so. I think this is a very dumbed down video, relatively low fps, and if I had to guess, it's actually a 1080p screen at most. Regardless, Apple has a knack for making up new terms. We don't have HD screens, we have retina. We don't make nfc payments, we use apple pay.

Yeah, I think they were trying to differentiate the the fact that the images are at full 12MP resolution, not a 3 second 4k video clip.
 
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After giving additional thoughts to "live photos" and still thinking they're simply a gimmick it occurred to me. Maybe Apple thinks the teenage customers will find them "cool" and a trend will emerge. If not, it's no loss. Perhaps they've been overly influenced by Shap Chat, Vine, and other brief view images / videos. So in their minds these new apps are something Apple can compete with.

Then there's the fact that Apple is being run by old guys:
Tim Cook 54
Phil Schiller 55
Jimmy Iovine 62

It's hard to imagine them remaining relevant when they're so rich and busy with other things. I can't envision Tim Cook using any of the apps above.
 
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Terminals here are ready. I've used NFC payments with a prepaid NFC sticker, but the system for loading more balance to that sticker is a nightmare to use, so I'd really prefer Apple Pay. Tourists who have Apple Pay enabled have reported successful purchases here, so what comes to infrastructure everything should be good to go. I've also heard that payment operators over here would be interested in Apple Pay, but so far Apple hasn't given much priority to getting the contracts sorted out. We don't even have the Apple Watch here yet, so it looks like Apple is pretty much ignoring us, unless there's an opportunity to raise prices, that is. It'll be both interesting and frightening to see how much the iPad Pro and the Apple Pencil will cost here. Despite my complaints about the iPhone pricing I'm interested in the iPad Pro and the Pencil.

I still think it's a big thumbs down that ApplePay is limited to only a max of 50£ purchases in the UK (that's what I've heard anyway).
 
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I still think it's a big thumbs down that ApplePay is limited to only a max of 50£ purchases in the UK (that's what I've heard anyway).

I think the limit is even lower, at least here. However, it would be handy when you're returning from a long walk/jog (when I often don't have my wallet with me but I do carry my phone) and want to stop by at a nearby grocery store to grab a quick snack or a drink. Small purchases in situations you didn't anticipate and therefore didn't bring your wallet would be nice to handle with Apple Pay.
 
Why do people refer to iCloud as the solution for lack of space on 16GB phone? It's not: iCloud just makes a copy of your files in the cloud. But they're still on the phone a well.

In the new Photos app you do have the option to Optimize Storage but that only goes so far. My iCloud Photo library has 15.000+ photos on it and I cannot enable iCloud Photos on my current 16GB iPhone and iPad because there's not enough room on them. What happens is that 80% of the thumbnails remain white squares and when clicking on them I get an error message stating the photo cannot be downloaded from iCloud. Also, my phone fills up until less than 300MB is available and then I get all sorts of other error messages.

It's just a horrible user experience: I pay for the devices, I pay for iCloud storage, but still nothing works as expected. Very disappointing. The only solution: spend more money and buy bigger iOS devices.

iCloud is a good solution. I have 325gb of pictures and Videos in iCloud and that uses up 1.7gb of space on my iPhone.

Is 16gb ok? Yes its fine. I can't go wild with apps on my phone but I have everything on there I would like and I still have 1.2gb left. (iPhone 4S 16gb)

I think I would like my next phone to be 64gb but I wouldn't be put off by the 16gb. You'd be surprised how many people use their phone for a limited number of things.
 
Do you really think it would be more "sane" if a capitalist company destroyes their own profits by making available a 32GB model and sell much less 64 GB models they get 100$ more revenue for?

Yes, I do.

I am an Apple shareholder, and want them to do well. I also think that their profits are much too high and that they are greedy. If much reduced profits means a much reduced share price, then so be it.

Apple, along with other big tech companies, pay far too little tax. They effectively evade tax on a grand scale. I hope that the EU will impose large fines on them all, and also siphon off a much larger proportion of their profits.
 
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Storage space is such an arbitrary feature to control as it is the easiest to manipulate people with. Every other feature on phones improves by leaps and bounds while everyone uses storage as the part to offer different price points. At this point any company could have just add 64GB or even 128GB at the same price for a one size fits all.

Doing that now would be an issue since they already screwed it up (not just Apple)

Not everyone needs that much space? True, however the same could be said for a lot of features, screen, camera, size, speed etc... Extra space is not going to hurt the buyer.

If your lowest price point is going to be $600 or so off contract, just toss everything into the phone, add 128GB and sell one.

I know that is not how one makes more money (not talking about that here) Just something that sounds less greedy and outdated for all the companies talking about the future.

The cloud is a backup, not local storage which I what I want as well.
 
More than once I have heard people saying 'I need to buy a new iPhone, mine is full of photos' (you know, those iPhone users who never connect the phone to a computer) ... THIS is what Apple is aiming for .. either selling people the more expensive higher memory phones, or buying a new one because the old one is FULL ;)

They don`t even think they should transfer them to a computer, back them up and then clear them out. Likely the same people that lose everything when something breaks because they never do back ups. Hear that far too often regarding tech in general. No order or management at all.
 
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