Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple sets its own message, unit sales was a good number for them and now they choose not to report these.
People will read in to this as the figures aren't as rosy because this message isn't in Apples interests.
Reacting to poor unit sales is not falsely reacting.
People can read what they want into it. The reality is going forward, Apple is not reporting unit sales. None of their competitors do, so why should they. Their business mix is changing, this is one way to focus on what is important. Revenue and profits.
 
People can read what they want into it. The reality is going forward, Apple is not reporting unit sales. None of their competitors do, so why should they. Their business mix is changing, this is one way to focus on what is important. Revenue and profits.


Apple reporting unit sales when their competitors didn't was a clever move. It could brag about how much better its sales were stoking the enthusiasm of adherents. Like McDonald's billions served used to, it helped marketing to consumers and it promoted the company as the leader of these new businesses. The ever increasing hard numbers gave investors extra confidence in the company leadership and bolstered the stock price. But now sales appear to be stagnating and Huawei sells more phones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FyerFyer
Apple reporting unit sales when their competitors didn't was a clever move. It could brag about how much better its sales were stoking the enthusiasm of adherents. Like McDonald's billions served used to, it helped marketing to consumers and it promoted the company as the leader of these new businesses. The ever increasing hard numbers gave investors extra confidence in the company leadership and bolstered the stock price. But now sales appear to be stagnating and Huawei sells more phones.
Huawei sells more phones, but apple makes the lions share of profits in the smartphone sector. Apple was never about market share.
 
Apple reporting unit sales when their competitors didn't was a clever move. It could brag about how much better its sales were stoking the enthusiasm of adherents. Like McDonald's billions served used to, it helped marketing to consumers and it promoted the company as the leader of these new businesses. The ever increasing hard numbers gave investors extra confidence in the company leadership and bolstered the stock price. But now sales appear to be stagnating and Huawei sells more phones.
Apple has 600 million customers a month.

That’s the only number you need to know.
 
Apple reporting unit sales when their competitors didn't was a clever move. It could brag about how much better its sales were stoking the enthusiasm of adherents. Like McDonald's billions served used to, it helped marketing to consumers and it promoted the company as the leader of these new businesses. The ever increasing hard numbers gave investors extra confidence in the company leadership and bolstered the stock price. But now sales appear to be stagnating and Huawei sells more phones.
The install base for iOS devices is still growing via the 2nd-hand market, which helps to fuel sales of new iPhones (from people selling their older iPhones to help fund the purchases of newer iPhones).

So even if sales of iPhones stagnate, your user base is still growing, which in turn means more people to sell accessories, apps and services to. We know that Apple is slowly but sure pivoting to wearables (the Apple Watch is without doubt a success in its own right, AirPods are no slouch, and AR glasses are rumoured for launch in 2020), services (Apple looks to be launching a subscription-based news service in the very least), plus accessories (HomePod, Apple TV).

What people don't seem to get is that Apple has an entire ecosystem to allow it to continue monetising its user base long after the sale of the iPhone has been made, while companies like Huawei only earn from hardware sales.

Apple will do just fine.
 
Wow. Sales for the XS and XS Max must be REALLY bad.

I’ve been an iPhone guy since the beginning. I’ve owned nearly every iteration.

I didn’t upgrade to the X last year and this year I went a little crazy and ordered a Pixel 3 XL.

Not many people can afford a $1200.00 phone every year. As the price goes up, customer pool goes down.
 
There are rumors that apple sales have been dropped from past few years. This is mainly because of their heavy price on each of their models. I had read in another article that they have stopped iphone XR, XS sales and increased iphone 8 sales now. In some underdeveloped countries most of the people can’t afford these heavy priced iphones. Still some use old iphone models like iphone 7 and iphone 8. And i feel $1 donation on World AIDS day and releasing red themed devices is a good move by apple.
 
Not many people can afford a $1200.00 phone every year. As the price goes up, customer pool goes down.

Maybe so or Maybe no.

The customer pool can still grow and grow.

Apple is selling a lot of iPhones. Lots! Every second of every minute.

Having said that - even if new phones are not being purchased by everyone, there is another level of the iPhone market that can grow. Just look at how many people on the Macrumours site are claiming to be using an iPhone 6 or whatever because they are waiting for the next iPhone models. Instead of being recycled, these older iPhones are still being used! And why not. They are still pretty good - just not as good as the latest iPhone models. There is room for everything.

Instead of releasing an "iPhone SE" - you can just go and buy a used iPhone X or iPhone 8. No shame in buying a used phone. For some people it's all about the price.

Compare to Automobiles. For example, not everyone buys a brand new car every year. Some people have never purchased a brand spanking new car - they always buy a used car. Some people lease their car. Some people only drive the top brand vehicles, and others only buy the economy models.

Think about how Apple can penetrate the India market. One way would be to simply wait for the middle class to grow.
That is what happened in China. In China the middle class grew and grew - it's to the point where many millions of new iPhones are sold in China every year. But in India, maybe the other way to penetrate the market will be for refurbished iPhones to be sold there.

The customer pool can continue to grow if the older used iPhones are kept alive and working instead of being decommissioned and recycled into scrap.

All the crying about $1200 phones is silly. Do you know what the new 2020 Porsche 911 retail price is? It was shown yesterday. Do you hear many people complaining that it is priced too high? I don't think so.

Apple's cost of production, not even including non-recoverable engineering costs, is easy to calculate. They sell most phones with a 38% margin. So as little innovation people claim is in these iPhone's, there is a real cost to produce them. Maybe it's just not for everyone to buy every year. Or maybe it is something we should all be buying new every year because it is so important to our lives. It's another layer of "senses" in some ways. What price for 6th sense?
[doublepost=1543555463][/doublepost]
The install base for iOS devices is still growing via the 2nd-hand market, which helps to fuel sales of new iPhones (from people selling their older iPhones to help fund the purchases of newer iPhones).

So even if sales of iPhones stagnate, your user base is still growing, which in turn means more people to sell accessories, apps and services to. We know that Apple is slowly but sure pivoting to wearables (the Apple Watch is without doubt a success in its own right, AirPods are no slouch, and AR glasses are rumoured for launch in 2020), services (Apple looks to be launching a subscription-based news service in the very least), plus accessories (HomePod, Apple TV).

What people don't seem to get is that Apple has an entire ecosystem to allow it to continue monetising its user base long after the sale of the iPhone has been made, while companies like Huawei only earn from hardware sales.

Apple will do just fine.

That's what I was trying to say! You said it better :)
 
Why do you care about other people's need for for different sizes in the iPhones, large or small?

I don't care. But you have to sometimes remind people that the market is moving towards bigger screens & has been for a while. People don't like it when they are reminded that the days of a premium 4" smart phone are over.
[doublepost=1543564815][/doublepost]
And yet they made the Xs which is less than an Inch smaller than the XsMax . . .

That's a 5.8" OLED, a fraction smaller than the budget 6.1" LCD on the Xr.
 
No surprise. Do they really expect a £1,000+ phone to sell really well these days? People are waking up and realising they don't need the top end iPhone model or even an iPhone anymore. You can save yourself hundreds and get just as good build quality/performance from countless other phones. There really isn't any new exciting features in the smartphone market these days. It was different back in 2007-2013 but the last good few years you're only really paying for build quality/performance and a brand. What innovative features does the iPhone have that other flagship phones doesn't?

If you buy an iPhone you're basically just paying iOS-tax or because you have sunk a lot of money into the Apple ecosystem that it might be cheaper staying in it instead of moving over to Android and starting from scratch. I guess that's true of professionals but let's face it most people who own an Apple product are young kids who just want to post on social media and take selfies.

I'm not hating on iPhones as I think they are still fantastic products but I feel that time is almost up for the iPhone. One day just like the iPod it will disappear or at the very least need a total overhaul. If I were Apple I'd be worried because their big money maker has just about been milked dry. Apple were lucky that after the iPod they had the iPhone but what's coming next after iPhone?
 
Apple never comments on supply chain rumors. Heck they rarely comment on any rumors period.
[doublepost=1543455612][/doublepost]
Apple announced a case on stage at the launch event? Are you sure about that?
[doublepost=1543455715][/doublepost]
The same courage that Google, Microsoft and Samsung have, right?

Ah it seems no they did not, I could have sworn they did? I went and watched the video again.. Seems it was in press releases on some countries, but they are yet to launch a case for The XR anywhere:

http://9to5mac.com/2018/10/12/iphone-xr-apple-clear-case/
 
People can read what they want into it. The reality is going forward, Apple is not reporting unit sales. None of their competitors do, so why should they. Their business mix is changing, this is one way to focus on what is important. Revenue and profits.
Its not a case of why should they but why did they. Doing that and people will read in to it in a negative way. Companies don't change reporting lightly. Apple had changed because the figures painted a nice picture, now they don't it is as simple as that.
 
Its not a case of why should they but why did they. Doing that and people will read in to it in a negative way. Companies don't change reporting lightly. Apple had changed because the figures painted a nice picture, now they don't it is as simple as that.
Record breaking revenues paints a nice picture as far as I’m concerned. If you think not, that’s fair, because it’s your opinion. Times change, Apple is changing also.
 
Its not a case of why should they but why did they. Doing that and people will read in to it in a negative way. Companies don't change reporting lightly. Apple had changed because the figures painted a nice picture, now they don't it is as simple as that.

Yeah, you could see it that way. But that is way too simple.
All these “rumors” of the supply chain has too much impact on the stock price now, it is quite disturbing. And afterwards they seem to be untrue. By steering away from these figures, perhaps Apple is creating a lot of stress right now, for investors etc. but after they adjust, and apple beating their estimates for the current quarter by quite a margin, finally the press will stop reporting all these rumors and stop the effect these reports have on stock prices.
 
And what should you read then? All these rumored production cuts we have seen since the days of the 6s, that has been proven wrong consistently? Or a source from Apple which has the real numbers?
No let’s listen to techtalktv or painfully honest tech, or Jaime Rivera, etc.
Or that one worker from a supplier.. great sources..
[doublepost=1543504693][/doublepost]

Well I’m glad your listening to a “source” from the company in question. Honestly the gullibility based on infatuation for a bloody tech company is what really worries me. Please please please just remind yourself or learn how companies with large shareholders work.
 
Yeah, you could see it that way. But that is way too simple.
All these “rumors” of the supply chain has too much impact on the stock price now, it is quite disturbing. And afterwards they seem to be untrue. By steering away from these figures, perhaps Apple is creating a lot of stress right now, for investors etc. but after they adjust, and apple beating their estimates for the current quarter by quite a margin, finally the press will stop reporting all these rumors and stop the effect these reports have on stock prices.
If you were investing in shares, would you really base your decisions on rumours? Surely they do their own research.
[doublepost=1543580061][/doublepost]
Record breaking revenues paints a nice picture as far as I’m concerned. If you think not, that’s fair, because it’s your opinion. Times change, Apple is changing also.
You seem to think I have some agenda against Apple. I do not.
I simply see Apple changing something and say it like it is. They used to report something, now they don't there is a negative reason for doing so otherwise they would not have changed.*

(* Not sure of the correct way to phrase it, so will use the word negative, simply meaning that it is not in Apples interest to report these figures any more, otherwise they would)
 
If you were investing in shares, would you really base your decisions on rumours? Surely they do their own research.
[doublepost=1543580061][/doublepost]
You seem to think I have some agenda against Apple. I do not.
I simply see Apple changing something and say it like it is. They used to report something, now they don't there is a negative reason for doing so otherwise they would not have changed.*

(* Not sure of the correct way to phrase it, so will use the word negative, simply meaning that it is not in Apples interest to report these figures any more, otherwise they would)
I understand what you are conveying. I don’t agree this is because they are hiding “bad news”. Apple changed their reporting policies, which in hindsight maybe they should not have done in the first place. (Reporting units)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dilbert99
Yeah, I don’t think these things quite work like that.
[doublepost=1543498420][/doublepost]

That may be true but it’s also not that easy to tell an XR in the wild unless it’s one of the new colors. You could easily have mistaken a white or black one for an iPhone 8 or 8 Plus. Not saying you did, but it’s certainly possible. They look very similar from the back.

It is true: notch is very visible and I can recognise the big difference is size, furthermore when you're in the tube often I am very close with a lot of people during my frequent daily trips. Still didn't see anyone with a XR, few X/Xs but no one with a XR. No one from the team, colleagues (big american company), and friends with a XR, never happened before with a previous model. I think people gave up with upgrading because my impression is that the iPhone SE and 7/8 are the reasons to use Apple, indeed investors already asked a big re-design for 2019.
 
Right, but since Apple had sales numbers for all devices when they gave guidance for a record holiday quarter, we know that's not the case.

That's the context you're missing.

Where did they give sales numbers for each device?

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q4-18-Data-Summary.pdf
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q4-FY18-Consolidated-Financial-Statements.pdf

They only gave a total number of iPhones. The record holiday quarter was in terms of Revenue, not device sales. Device sales were actually flat YoY. But since each device costs more this year than last, their revenue is better this year. Nothing they said in their guidance shows my previous statement is not the case. And his coy statements in the interview and refusal to even address the production cuts speaks volumes. What he said was exaclty what I said earlier. The Xr has sold at least 1 more device than the next highest selling individual model. Whether that's the X, Xs, Xs Max, etc, we will never know.
 
Right. People could afford 500 a year.

Apple consistently raising the price every since year is a problem.
Keep the $1,200 phone for 3 years. Then it's $400 a year, and the thing about the performance of these phones is you can keep one for 3 years.
[doublepost=1543585982][/doublepost]
Where did they give sales numbers for each device?

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q4-18-Data-Summary.pdf
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q4-FY18-Consolidated-Financial-Statements.pdf

They only gave a total number of iPhones. The record holiday quarter was in terms of Revenue, not device sales. Device sales were actually flat YoY. But since each device costs more this year than last, their revenue is better this year. Nothing they said in their guidance shows my previous statement is not the case. And his coy statements in the interview and refusal to even address the production cuts speaks volumes. What he said was exaclty what I said earlier. The Xr has sold at least 1 more device than the next highest selling individual model. Whether that's the X, Xs, Xs Max, etc, we will never know.
I'm saying Apple already knew the sales mix internally when they provided the revenue guidance that was above last year's.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.