Apple's Phil Schiller Explains Why Valve's Steam Link App Was Rejected

[Menel]

Doesn’t the Steam app allow you to make Steam purchases?

Ssshhhhhhh

I also do lots of shopping in the amazon, newegg and etc apps.

 

[expiredyogurt]

i really dont have an opinion about steam except that they are pretty much the most successful platform for new and veteran game dev to publish their game. i can totally see this be a threat to apple since there are a couple of cross platform games between ios and steam. people would tend to purchase the game on steam because... cross platform. you can play it on your window machine, mac, ios, maybe consoles in the future so it is a threat considering most people have access to stable and fast wifi now. imagine if net neutrality falls through and they charge more to stream games from your dekstop machine to your ios device, that is a real show to see

 

[Pakaku]

What exactly is the point of this app anyway? From what I'm reading, it lets you stream Steam games from a PC over the local WiFi network. What exactly is the benefit here? If you're already home, might as well play the games directly on the PC with less lag and smoother gameplay?

There are a lot of games sold over Steam that are playable with a simple controller, rather than needing the advantages of a mouse (such as quick camera turning, like in a competitive first-person shooter game)

So the idea that you can play your PC game in a more comfortable place (couch, bed, etc) rather than a more restrictive computer chair, or without having to haul the PC over to the television and plug it in, is appealing to a lot of people.

There are also niche examples; Warframe has a day-long crafting system and a "special missions" mechanic, and it could be nice to check on them in-game without having to get up and do it through the PC. It's not too hard to get up but it could be more convenient.

 

[Delta-NC]

Deleted.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I don’t blame Valve for trying to push the envelope to see what they might be able to get away with, but the app is too high profile for it to fly under the radar for very long.

This really isn’t that complicated. I’m sure when Valve makes the changes necessary to become compliant, the app will again be available.

 

[Scooz]

Still just a remote control app. Even if it‘s from Valve.

It‘s like blocking a camera app because you might make photographs of naked people.

Or blocking a VOIP app since you might order a Pizza without paying Apple 30% for the call/monthly VOIP service costs. Next thing they will want a third of your pizza.

All nonsense excuses for keeping that app off the store. Phil Schiller standing up for this is disappointing. We had that kind of Apple already and it failed miserably.

Btw, the actual Steam app, not the Steam Link app, is long present in the App Store and allows you to buy stuff without going thru the App Store. Shouldn‘t have said that, right?

 

[DevNull0]

Apples and oranges. These are already established apps with an expectation that they are accessible on iOS.

And steam in a huge service with a huge membership base. Blocking it from Apple TV is as stupid as blocking Spotify from HomePod.

If you added the total revenue of the big 4 sports to the total RIAA revenue and then doubled the entire total, you'd be close to the total revenue of the gaming industry. Gaming is huge, and Apple is idiotic for blocking Steam on their platforms. If I had to choose I'd give up Apple before Steam, and gaming is why I have a high end windows computer in my otherwise Apple-centric home.

Think about all those 600 000 users of HomePods. Do you think they can easily switch to Spotify now?

So Apple got 600,000 people who were already extremely die-hard fans and unlikely to drop Apple Music any time soon a more tightly locked into Apple Music.

Instead they could have sold 10's of millions of speakers to people who like music from other sources, console gaming, TV other than Apple TV, etc.

If that is Apple's logic, then they utterly failed here.

 

[Regime2008]

There’s a reason why the iOS App Store takes in more revenue than android despite its smaller market share.

Apple has the best customers. The iOS App Store represents an extremely lucrative market for Steam (arguably even moreso than android) and I believe being banned from it would be quite financially damaging to Steam.

They both need each other, though Apple is in a position of greater leverage and is thus able to dictate terms to Steam (within reason of course).

And dictate terms Apple will.

Do you know what steam even is? Why would it be more beneficial to Apple compared to Android, if their Mac hardware is quite trash for gaming? Have you seen the average hardware for the steam surveys? Have you seen Apple lackluster hardware for their laptops and computers? Sometimes I feel like you just ride the Apple wave, and spew things without even thinking them through. How many mac computers can run AAA games, at a stable 60fps at monitors resolution? Let's be real now...

 

[Nunyabinez]

I think the differnce is that you can’t use anything from the amazon app directly within your iOS device but games, books and such are things you buy to consume in your device and those things qualify as in app purchases.

Right now you can buy steam games from their current app but you can’t use them in your iOS so it doesn’t make sense for Apple to get any cut form it, just like it is if you use an app to purchase train or plane tickets. but if the new app allows you to buy stuff you play on your iOS device...Apple wants a cut of that.
I don’t totally agree with this logic but it seems this is the case with why some apps are allowed and others don’t.

You raise an interesting point. Will Apple ask them to remove the buying functionality from the Steam App if Valve adds a new app that allows that content to be consumed on Apple devices?

Or as they have with others, require the 30% cut for purchase in the Steam App since they can be played in the Steam Link App?

I wonder if that is part of the negotiations that are going on. That might be a difficult choice for Valve. Give up sales from the Steam App to get the ability to stream on iOS devices.

 

[Abazigal]

Do you know what steam even is? Why would it be more beneficial to Apple compared to Android, if their Mac hardware is quite trash for gaming? Have you seen the average hardware for the steam surveys? Have you seen Apple lackluster hardware for their laptops and computers? Sometimes I feel like you just ride the Apple wave, and spew things without even thinking them through.

And I sometimes wonder if you just oppose Apple for the sake of opposing Apple.

The whole point of steam link is to let you stream games to your device without needing to play it on a PC.

Specs don’t really matter because the processing is all done on their end. All you really need is a good internet connection. As it is, you are able to game comfortably on a 2008 MacBook. That’s the whole point. To bring games to devices that otherwise could not support them, like the Apple TV and iPad.

And this would very well be the killer app for the Apple TV to kill all other gaming apps. Steam knows this, Apple knows this, and I don’t blame Apple for erring on the side of caution here. As they should with anything potentially disruptive to their platform.

The Apple market would be deemed more valuable because Apple users by and large have a higher propensity to spend and would thus be more profitable compared to Android, despite its smaller market share.

 

[loby]

Do they? I think they’ve done fine without them until now

It is not about “needing” for profits or to build their company. It would be considered a need if they desire to enter the gaming world. Apple has shown no interest in gaming, but if they decide to enter that market, having a stream app might help the start.

 

[Tech198]

"Valve has not commented on what features might need to be tweaked or removed to earn Apple's approval, and it is not clear when we might see a modified version of the Steam Link app available for sale if Valve is able or willing to make the necessary changes to the Steam Link experience."

i would be ok with this

 

[cube]

I think the differnce is that you can’t use anything from the amazon app directly within your iOS device but games, books and such are things you buy to consume in your device and those things qualify as in app purchases.

Right now you can buy steam games from their current app but you can’t use them in your iOS so it doesn’t make sense for Apple to get any cut form it, just like it is if you use an app to purchase train or plane tickets. but if the new app allows you to buy stuff you play on your iOS device...Apple wants a cut of that.
I don’t totally agree with this logic but it seems this is the case with why some apps are allowed and others don’t.

Steam Link does not allow you to run games on the iOS device. It is the same as using a non-free website in Firefox. And these usually run some code in the browser.

 

[Nunyabinez]

The discussion here highlights why the app was initially approved and then pulled back. The Steam Link App is neither fish nor fowl.

The initial approval was likely based on the logic that it is just a virtual desktop like many others.

But then someone realized that it had the potential to disrupt revenue flow to Apple and the developers.

So, it's not quite like Amazon, where you purchase things to use outside of your iOS device and it's not completely like a digital magazine app either.

This will be a complicated solution I think.

 

[DevNull0]

The whole point of steam link is to let you stream games to your device without needing to play it on a PC.

Specs don’t really matter because the processing is all done on their end. All you really need is a good internet connection.

Nope, that is not at all what Steam is and you clearly have no idea what it is.

It's a store that sells video games you download and run locally. To run most modern AAA title at decent video quality you needs seriously powerful hardware far beyond *anything* Apple currently sells. Hardware you own, in your own home that runs the game locally. The only spot the internet comes into play is when you buy and download the software.

This new App allows you to do the processing on your own local gaming PC and then stream the output via wifi to your iToy or Apple TV.

Now my question for you is why you feel so strongly about coming to a blind, ignorant defence of Apple's atrocious practice in an are you have zero interest, and zero knowledge? Why do you care? Why do you have to constantly defend Apple's every move?

 

[fairuz]

"I could see a very real situation where many people just straight up stop buying things from the App Store and exclusively purchase Steam games through Valve instead," wrote TouchArcade editor-in-chief Eli Hodapp.

Are many people really going to set up gaming PCs to do this? If he means the majority of users, that's unlikely.

 

[DevNull0]

The Apple market would be deemed more valuable because Apple users by and large have a higher propensity to spend and would thus be more profitable compared to Android, despite its smaller market share.

You've got no idea how big and valuable the PC and Console gaming markets are?

 

[fairuz]

You've got no idea how big and valuable the PC and Console gaming markets are?

Tiny. Steam's yearly revenue is $4.3B. The iOS App Store makes more revenue than that in a month and a half. Steam's profits are so small that they're probably worth less than that. Hardware is probably a different story.

 

[cube]

Are many people really going to set up gaming PCs to do this? If he means the majority of users, that's unlikely.

The point of mobile games is to play them on the move.

 

[DevNull0]

Are many people really going to set up gaming PCs to do this? If he means the majority of users, that's unlikely.

Good point. I can't imagine many people would. But the other way around, Steam users already have the expensive gaming PC, and an Apple TV or iPad is a very inexpensive accessory next to the gaming machine and Steam library.

That's why I see this App has a huge potential upside for Apple, while from Steam's point of view, it's a minor new toy for their customers to enjoy.

 

[Abazigal]

Nope, that is not at all what Steam is and you clearly have no idea what it is.

It's a store that sells video games you download and run locally. To run most modern AAA title at decent video quality you needs seriously powerful hardware far beyond *anything* Apple currently sells. Hardware you own, in your own home that runs the game locally. The only spot the internet comes into play is when you buy and download the software.

This new App allows you to do the processing on your own local gaming PC and then stream the output via wifi to your iToy or Apple TV.

Now my question for you is why you feel so strongly about coming to a blind, ignorant defence of Apple's atrocious practice in an are you have zero interest, and zero knowledge? Why do you care? Why do you have to constantly defend Apple's every move?

You are right. I appear to have confused the app with GeForce Now, which does let you stream games to your device from their own servers.

As to your last point, I defend Apple because as stated before, I feel that while Apple is not perfect, many of the criticisms levelled at them are simply not justified or valid.

However, in this case, it’s is clear that I had misunderstood the nature of the app and that I have little useful arguments to add to this discussion, so I acknowledge your criticism and sincerely apologise for my earlier statements.

While I might return at a later date as more information presents itself, I will bow out of this thread for now.

 

[fairuz]

To run most modern AAA title at decent video quality you needs seriously powerful hardware far beyond *anything* Apple currently sells.

My friends play most of these games fine on their Mac desktops. With eGPUs in play now, even a MBP can play anything using an RX580.

 

[DevNull0]

Tiny. Steam's yearly revenue is $4.3B. The iOS App Store makes more revenue than that in a month and a half. Steam's profits are so small that they're probably worth less than that.

I said gaming industry, not one company. It was $108.4 Billion in 2017. And I was replying to a poster with zero interest in gaming implying gaming was a minor nothing company. Do give you a sense of Gaming's place in the entertainment industry, the entire National Basketball Association makes about $5 billion a year. Last year, the entire Music Recording industry including all streaming services, CDs, downloads, etc was $8.4 billion.

This is a huge deal for Apple.

 

[341328]

Apple’s cut of 30% is ridiculously high.

 

[Abazigal]

No, the person you are replying to is correct. You don't understand what Steam Link is at all.

Steam Link is designed to allow you to stream games from a gaming PC in your home to any other display in your home via your network. It does not work over the internet at all. Everything is processed on your gaming PC / Mac which must be on the same local network as the Steam Link device.

You are absolutely right, as I have clarified in an earlier response above.