Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'

[dilbert99]

The market will decide. It will be interesting to see what sales of the new MacBooks Pros have been 1 year from now. Personally, I like the new machine, the Thunderbolt 3/USB C port layout and especially the Touchbar. If the apps integrate as they should i can definitely see an improvement in my workflows. Kind of reminds me of the first time I had a mouse (yeah, I'm that old). Thought that I would never use it but didn't want to be "that guy" that never tries new tech. Needless to say I was a convert. I'm thinking that I'll be a convert to the Touchbar as well.

I believe that this will be a big success for Apple but we'll just have to wait and see.

I predict the next keynote will not show sales numbers, I remember Apple used to be big on numbers, slippery slope I am feeling.
I just don't know why they price themselves out of the market for many people or those with more sense.
[doublepost=1477697590][/doublepost]

Apple's latest and greatest costs a LOT of money but it's no different with their phones and tablets. If you want an Apple product, such as a MacBook Pro and don't want to pay top dollar, buy a refurb for a great discount. You don't need that space tray touch bar p3 screen. If you want it, then pay. The prices are expensive, but they have plenty of low cost options for people while still doing what they can to provide what they think is the best user experience.

Thing is their latest and greatest no longer matches the price tag.
[doublepost=1477697836][/doublepost]

You completely didn't understand my post. I never said they were equal.

fair enough
[doublepost=1477698079][/doublepost]

but has to design for experience rather than cost

Hi Phil,

Please explain why me constantly having a full SSD is designing for experience. If you put competitor sized SSDs in your machines, I would now have ample space and a good experience. I currently have the weekly grind of working out what to move out to my attached thumb drive, which as it happens you are removing as a potential experience.

 

[rGiskard]

If this turns real, i don't see it under 200$, taking in mind that the current magic keyboard is already 99$.

I'll see that $200 and raise you $99 for a cool $299.
[doublepost=1477699404][/doublepost]

Seems like Jony gets disproportionate stick because he's a limey.

Nope, it's because he consistently puts form before function, has no clue about ergonomics, and creates reliability and performance issues out of thin air with his uselessly thin designs.

Case in point: the iMac. It does not need to be thin. Yet it is so thin that the GPU performs below competitors with the exact same GPU because of thermal-induced throttling. In other words, the man is an up-jumped idiot.

 

[samcraig]

I wrote this in another thread - but at the end of the day - if you want to use/keep using OSX and need to upgrade - there's no choice. Apple knows that.

I'm in the unfortunate situation where my 2009 iMac desperately needs replacing and I need to get a laptop. I have thought long and hard about going back to Windows to get more bang for the buck. But I have software investments I'm not willing to part with due to cost and also learning curves. But who knows. I haven't put down my credit card yet.

 

[Mactendo]

Apple's ancient history had it that when Steve Jobs left, it almost went bust as it was lead by marketeers. History has an amazing habit of repeating itself. The overpriced iPhone 7 with its missing headphone socket, the pointless overpriced watch, the feature-free Sierra with the useless Siri, and now the death of the Macbook Pro.

Yes. Seeing as they just dropped the display line, I'm afraid Cook should leave ASAP. That's just beyond all reason.

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

If this turns real, i don't see it under 200$, taking in mind that the current magic keyboard is already 99$.

If it's the best input device available, $200-300 is perfectly fine. I don't mind expensive hardware if it is best in class. Apple has always had absolute **** input devices though, so I'm skeptical.

 

[BenTrovato]

Thing is their latest and greatest no longer matches the price tag.

In my opinion, it never has.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The problem is that they are pricing Apple Macs right out of existence for many. If they offered more models (many don't need/want a touch bar, for example), it wouldn't be so bad, but because Apple limits their selection only to a few models and REFUSES to license anyone else to fill in the voids they don't bother covering, you end up with a love it or leave it situation. Sadly, many will choose to leave it out of an inability to afford it, not because they don't want one.

 

[Zellio]

I think by experience he means lifestyle.

He means the experience of jumping in a vault full of gold coins

 

[dilbert99]

In my opinion, it never has.

So true

 

[dzj]

I'll see that $200 and raise you $99 for a cool $299.
[doublepost=1477699404][/doublepost]

Nope, it's because he consistently puts form before function, has no clue about ergonomics, and creates reliability and performance issues out of thin air with his uselessly thin designs.

Case in point: the iMac. It does not need to be thin. Yet it is so thin that the GPU performs below competitors with the exact same GPU because of thermal-induced throttling. In other words, the man is an up-jumped idiot.

For me, he is an efficient substitute for a group of idiots. Saves space, in case you have tasks that require stupidity ...

 

[smoledman]

He is obsessed with Thin. So is the rest of the staff... Its quite funny to watch... Ivy as a designer has totally lost touch of relationships between height/width/depth... Once something reaches a certain height you can only make it 'So Thin' before it starts to look weird. Look at the the iPhone7 - while it is thin it also looks a bit goofy due to its height... He might work and design for Apple but Fibonacci would probably tell him to either make the phone less tall and keep its thin or make it less thin to keep it from looking goofy !

Instead of making the new 2016 MacBook Pro more powerful they made it.... Drumwhirl..... You guessed it.... THINNER --- and thus accommodate identical hardware... So you get a thinner Laptop that weighs less and costs more... Where you wanted a Laptop more powerful...

The Current Retina MacBook Pro is THIN as H***** --- I dont need it to be thinner but more powerful...

This coming from a company that supposedly valued the Golden Ratio. I bet Steve Jobs enforced that, now that he's gone all proportions are lost.
[doublepost=1477729489][/doublepost]

Precisely. "Why would you buy a PC anymore?" Sound familiar? You can't make these sorts of grandiose and, in my opinion, misguided statements and then turn around a year later and claim that you can't have the best computing experience by making MacOS like iOS. Charitably, these seemingly contradictory declarations make it appear as if you lack a coherent direction. At worst, they come off as marketing, double-speak bulls@#$.

Look Apple sells 2x-3x as many iPads per quarter as Macs for a long time now. If Apple has decided F U to it's power computer users, Windows OEMs are more than happy to welcome them in waiting arms. Windows 10 is only getting better with every update.

 

[mrhick01]

The original polycarbonate MacBook started at $1099 in 2006 - over $1300 in today's dollars. The replacement - the unibody MacBook (not Pro) was $1499 when released in 2008. That same year the new MacBook Air was introduced at $1799!! When the retina MacBook Pro was introduced in 2012 it started at $2199 - or $400 more than the old model.

The only thing that is out of calibration is people's expectations. Apple has actually lowered the prices of their computers drastically as they've aged - now people are PO'ed because the brand new models don't start at the same price point. Please.

For what it's worth, the TouchBar-less MacBook Air replacement, the function-keyed MacBook Pro, the student/education price is $1,449. i5, 8 GB, 256 GB flash. Not super-cheap, but not out of the realm of purchase. Last gen MacBook Pros are available for $1,199. Apple has rarely ever had cheap hardware.

 

[petvas]

I have read almost all comments on this thread. Here is my take on the new MBPs:

Overall I liked the new Macbook Pros. I like the new touch bar, but I do not know if this will be just another gimmick. Having Touch ID on the Mac is certainly welcome and I am sure that developers will use it in their apps.
I like that the display is now even better, but I would like to see a jump in resolution. Unfortunately this didn't happen.

Now, let's go to the negatives:
Why on earth is Apple not offering standard USB-A ports? Why not put two USB-A and two Thunderbolt ports? Why on earth do we lose the SD card slot? I have a 13" rMBP 2015 and I use the SD card slot a lot.
Why there is no improvement in the battery department? We still get around 10 hours of battery. Microsoft's latest Surface Book can go up to 16 hours!

I am still torn about buying it or not. I haven't decided yet. I feel that I am moving away from Apple. I have done this for smartphones one year ago and I do not use an iPhone anymore. I still like macOS more than Windows, but the new Surface Book and the Studio are looking very good.

As for people complaining about the price: Get over it! This is typical Apple. I had a look at what I get from Microsoft for a 13,5" Surface Book for 2799$

After that I had a look at what Apple is offering for 2499$.

Apple is actually cheaper than Microsoft, but Apple is not offering a discreet graphics option (#fail). I also do not know the CPU speed on the Surface Book.

For people wanting to get the 15" model, you can spend 2799$ to get a very similar specced machine as the Surface book.

At the end of the day it seems that these are the prices for premium laptops nowadays. Do I like it? Of course not. I am not sure I can afford it right now, but basically if you need to buy a premium laptop, you have to spend more than 2000$.
What bothers me is that there is no Macbook Pro at the 1500$ price segment. (with the Touch bar)

If you prefer Windows, then there are choices out there, but the premium offerings will cost you the same money, but might give you a better configuration.
If you want to run macOS then your choices are limited. The new Macbook Pro is despite the price increase a great laptop.

People are right to complain about the price, or the lack of a 32Gb RAM option. Who cares if battery suffers a bit? Make the damn laptop a bit thicker and give people the option!
Depending on my financial situation I might upgrade from my 13" rMBP 2015 to a 15" model. We will see. I might also completely abandon Apple and go with Microsoft. At the end of the day I will pay 2 to 3k for my new computer. I know that...

 

[mrhick01]

"We did spend a great deal of time looking at this a number of years ago and came to the conclusion that to make the best personal computer, you can't try to turn MacOS into an iPhone," Schiller says. "Conversely, you can't turn iOS into a Mac.... So each one is best at what they're meant to be -- and we take what makes sense to add from each, but without fundamentally changing them so they're compromised."

And also because we are dropping iMac and Mac Pro desktops. We have run out of new and exciting ways to design them. But mostly because all our effort was put into the Apple Car, which may or may not exist.

I do believe the rumors out there that there are MacPro and iMac prototypes in the labs and that Apple has been left hanging by Intel's foot dragging. Intel no longer has any performance competition, along with the fact that we are approaching Peak Silicon. Apple made a mistake in not doing a processor bump in the Mac Pro (even if it required a new board) 1 to 1.5 years ago.

Dalrymple has been dropping hints and there has been a forum poster or two who may be a designated info leaker that have said as much.

 

[btrach144]

Apple has lost touch with its users. What a train wreck

 

[zone23]

Basically every company is going to go to this as the middle class in America is dying. In the future, there likely will just be a ultra-rich ruling class and peasant serfs.



I think it would be harder than we think to design a keyboard with the magic strip as it requires the separate SOC. The question is how would they handle the communication between the mac mini/pro/iMac and the keyboard with the integrated SOC. It would be a lot of chatter on the USB-C line; I'm too stupid to understand how they encrypt all that info to prevent other gadgets on the USB-C chain from sniffing passwords, etc. but perhaps some of the smart people here can clarify.

SWEET! I can't wait to see which one I turn out to be!

 

[dk001]

It's actually very simple why they don't.

Remember when Microsoft wanted to do a mobile phone back in the early 2000s and the Windows team through a stink and wanted it to be branded Windows and have the same menu system for consistency instead of doing something with capacitive touch?

The same thing is going on at Apple. The iPhone and iPad business units are strong enough to push back on the Mac business unit to not do touch so they don't encroach on their business.

Internal divisions between groups is nothing new at large corporations. But it's the CEO that needs to make the call on the right strategy for the company.

Steve Ballmer failed to do this at Microsoft and Nadella seems to be doing it correctly. I feel Cook is doing the same thing as Ballmer.

SO we are back to our old calendar. BC = Before Cook AD = After Death (SJ)

 

[smillsishere]

I'm writing from my 2015 Macbook right now, and in the U.K, am simply confused at this apparent 'upgrade'. The lack of SD card as a photographer is astonishing (yes, I could link my camera directly, but my camera is USB 2.0, and I enjoy sitting on my couch editing, which is easier with an SD card), and the lack of HDMI out means an adapter for watching movies (from Netflix, Amazon Prime, NowTV etc.) on my TV. The lack of USB 3 inputs is confounding, as a user of several devices for creating music, I would have to purchase several adapters. I'm confused about the loss of MagSafe connector too, especially as both me and my house mate have often tripped over the lead, and much to my pleasure found the Mac still perched and not upside down on the floor.

Other considerations: I purchased the top end Macbook Pro (without extra customisation, so the 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM with AMD GPU) form the store for about £1999. The current now low end Macbook Pro, with 256GB SSD, 16GB RAM and only the Iris GPU is now £1899! I am guessing that these prices are reflective of Brexit, as in the US, the prices for the Macbook's do not appear to be much different when I purchased my Macbook early this year (I believe my £1999 Mac was about $2299 at the time). Though these issues are out of Apple's hands, it's alarming that there seems to be more loss of functionality and compatibility than gain with the minor processor improvements for these pro machines. I also find the new keyboard and speaker layout for the 15 inch machines very ugly (the lines between the edge of the speaker grills and edge of the case are too thin, like the older late 00's Macbooks). The removal of the glowing Apple sign, though only superficial, is also a loss in terms of form (perhaps the last glowing bastion of the late 90's iBooks).

In 2019/20, this all may not matter to me, as my equipment changes. And I'm certainly not in the right crowd for an upgrade (I have the last machine and it's far more power and functionality than I need). But this is the first upgrade that I was completely disappointed with, and find that a large majority of forum users here agree.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MKQ42AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-2-m

35-BUCKS!?!?!?!?!

 

[jimmysteel]

Seems there’s always a bunch of quick, harsh comments on here after a product launch…
So these new laptops are more powerful, faster, smaller / thinner etc., and have this crazy Touch Bar which will probably prove to be pretty useful - what’s the beef?
The price? Agree that it’s an expensive bit of kit, but - for example - the MacBook Pro I’m typing this on is from 2012, and it’s still good as new: it was also expensive (around £2,000 even then), but worth every penny. Most here know that MacBooks are built like a tank: Apple's computers last a very long time (and their sustainability policies are quite impressive), so in a sense they’re rather like Volvos, BMWs, Bentleys or Jaguars. …They're more expensive than other vehicles, but people are very often willing to pay for quality. Of course a Hyundai or a Ssangyong will get you from “A to B”, so why have the Audi? Unfortunately people (Windows users?) who ask this question will perhaps just never get it.
…Admittedly somebody in this thread did suggest an interesting point / idea: making the whole trackpad a touchscreen… that somehow immediately sounds like it could work.
Still, cynicism aside, it’s intrepid and ballsy to get rid of the function keys, and once you’ve done that, you have a new area / zone to mess around with: what they’ve come up with for this blank space looks pretty futuristic and cool.
Yet people are carping about it... actually, reading between the lines, people's biggest bone of contention seems to be the price.
…However, the good **** is often worth saving for.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

Seems there’s always a bunch of quick, harsh comments on here after a product launch…
So these new laptops are more powerful, faster, smaller / thinner etc., and have this crazy Touch Bar which will probably prove to be pretty useful - what’s the beef?
The price? Agree that it’s an expensive bit of kit, but - for example - the MacBook Pro I’m typing this on is from 2012, and it’s still good as new: it was also expensive (around £2,000 even then), but worth every penny. Most here know that MacBooks are built like a tank: Apple's computers last a very long time (and their sustainability policies are quite impressive), so in a sense they’re rather like Volvos, BMWs, Bentleys or Jaguars. …They're more expensive than other vehicles, but people are very often willing to pay for quality. Of course a Hyundai or a Ssangyong will get you from “A to B”, so why have the Audi? Unfortunately people (Windows users?) who ask this question will perhaps just never get it.
…Admittedly somebody in this thread did suggest an interesting point / idea: making the whole trackpad a touchscreen… that somehow immediately sounds like it could work.
Still, cynicism aside, it’s intrepid and ballsy to get rid of the function keys, and once you’ve done that, you have a new area / zone to mess around with: what they’ve come up with for this blank space looks pretty futuristic and cool.
Yet people are carping about it... actually, reading between the lines, people's biggest bone of contention seems to be the price.
…However, the good **** is often worth saving for.

Exhibit A: an example of Apple's marketing working

 

[hindmost]

'Insincerity', thy name is the Apple 'Hello Again' Presentation team.

This was a half-hearted, face down introduction of updated Macintosh computers.The pitch team all seem embarrassed to be hawking merchandise which showed little to justify the price jumps for the models shown.

The most ludicrous player in this badly concocted dog & pony show was Tim Cook who paced endless back & forth, face down, like a caged animal struggling for constant reminders of his pitch on the 'cue screen'. Obviously, he could sense that his 'pitch' was not going to 'play in Peoria'. And it did not.

 

[VeryVito]

Yet people are carping about it... actually, reading between the lines, people's biggest bone of contention seems to be the price.
…However, the good **** is often worth saving for.

It's not the price; it's the value. Previous Macbook Pros have been worth the asking price; this one does not seem to be: It's actually much less machine for much more money (It doesn't even have a port to attach the newest iPhone/iPad ; it lacks the MagSafe adapter that has been a shining jewel in Apple's crown for years now, it cannot use a single accessory you own without an adapter/dongle of some sort). That's simply inexcusable.

 

[manhattanboy]

SWEET! I can't wait to see which one I turn out to be!

Hopefully in the ultrarich class, but would not recommend just sitting there and waiting for it to happen.

 

[smoledman]

The good news is that in 5-7 years USB-C will be the standard so 2016 MBP will have excellent resale value!