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Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'
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Have to disagree with Schiller....clearly a case of 'Design for profitability" becausee if this was a "Design for UX" then Apple would have listened to their core and loyal customer base. See, when Jobs was there as the 'Innovator' there was no real need to in-depth market research but I would strongly suggest current Apple management to start implementing a discipline dedicated to do some good market research BEFORE making the design decisions.
What?
I’ve liked all the Macs that I’ve had, notwithstanding any marketing.
I occasionally volunteer at a charity and one of the tasks there is fixing issues on the office PCs: when you’ve spent long enough overhauling the dog’s breakfast of software that is Windows, the Mac objectively appears as a beacon of clarity. Marketing has very little to do with that.
You post implies that if somebody likes something, they’re a victim of marketing. Therefore you surely chose the machine that you used to type that post on purely by marketing. You were unconditionally steered by the invisible hand of an evil marketeer.
Can you not see how absurd this thought is? It’s a kind of conspiracy theory actually.
However, perhaps you’re credulous and very susceptible to marketing, so therefore - as you naturally assume that everybody’s as gullible as you are - you judge others by these low standards?
Just a thought.
Cheers!
[doublepost=1477824269][/doublepost]
Fair point on the MagSafe adaptor - if this cable-pulling-laptop-over issue is as real as Apple have claimed (and have hitherto remedied with the MagSafe), then it seems odd that they now feel the problem has disappeared sufficiently that the remedy is no longer needed.
Others are of course also right about the ports, although in a sense if this new machine is a kind of pristine turning point in universal connectivity blah blah, then it’s kind of unfair that this generation of buyers have to swallow the cost. For “upcoming generations” of buyers (in a year of two), these adaptors, connectors, dongles etc. will be everywhere, lying around in offices etc., so the leap over to a purely USB-C machine won’t seem so painful.
My previous post was really trying to say that these new MacBooks seem great except for the cost, and one stands by that (so if they threw in a bunch of dongles in the box, for example, many other posters in this thread would possibly be more satisfied)…
Apple just pulled the headphone jack from the iPhone which was even more ubiquitous than usb-a. USB-A occupies a similar place in the marketplace as the floppy drive or cd drive when those were removed, except this time an adapter can be bought for under $10 rather than the $80 or so those devices cost to add.
The CPU is compatible with either regular DDR4, or LPDDR3. http://ark.intel.com/products/91166/Intel-Core-i5-6267U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz
Apple chose the low-power variant. Dell and HP did not.
I think the greatest factor in the pricing of these new Macbook Pros is the pricing of top-tier Windows notebooks. With Microsoft, Dell, and HP selling Windows notebooks at and above (sometimes way above) the price of the previous Macbook Pros, Apple had to do something to re-establish their boutique mystique.
Many people are shelling out $1400-$2000+ for a Windows notebook. That's pretty astonishing considering that a person can have the same OS experience on a cheap $150 notebook. (clearly there's the difference in performance, capacity, and hardware design/quality)
My prediction is that Apple will NOT lower prices on the MBP (pricing on them has been slowly but steadily increasing over the past 7 years or so), and sales will NOT suffer significantly.
I'm not pleased with the price increases, but for those of us who rely on macOS, there's no alternative. I won't be needing a new device soon, but when I do, at these price levels, I'll probably (finally) make the switch over to Linux.
Many people are shelling out $1400-$2000+ for a Windows notebook. That's pretty astonishing considering that a person can have the same OS experience on a cheap $150 notebook. (clearly there's the difference in performance, capacity, and hardware design/quality)
My prediction is that Apple will NOT lower prices on the MBP (pricing on them has been slowly but steadily increasing over the past 7 years or so), and sales will NOT suffer significantly.
I'm not pleased with the price increases, but for those of us who rely on macOS, there's no alternative. I won't be needing a new device soon, but when I do, at these price levels, I'll probably (finally) make the switch over to Linux.
I watched the 1998(?) Special Event where the original iMac and PowerBook G3 were launched. Phil and Steve had the showdowns between the fastest Windows systems and these new Macs. The Macs torched the Windows machines AND at a fraction of the price. Granted, these were two different chip architecture's, but still, just shows how much Apple has changed under Tim.
Let me say first I won't be buying one. I'll stick with my rMB and Lenovo. I was interested however a couple of things caught my attention.
1. The cost. Was the improvement worth the added money I would need to spend?
2. The ports. Can I hook my current devices (iPhone/iPad/Android) and peripherals (external SSD/HD/DVD/HDMI) to it?
3. Daily use. As this will become my main for the next 3-4 years, can it handle what I need? Large apps, VM, virtual collaboration?
4. Additional costs. What will I have to send to allow use of this machine?
Let's just say the answers to my "questions" put me squarely into the "No Buy" zone.
I went and tried the route of minimal connectors, use unwired with my rMB. I bought a side dock that plugs in to allow me to connect and do the things on need for my travel machine. It's a great device but I won't go down that route again.
Just my opinion as it pertains to me. I am sure others will fall into the same bucket.
I think you're probably right, particularly when it comes to Surface Book. Perhaps they wanted to price it higher than Microsoft's top offering, to fool people into thinking theirs is better. The problem is that the Surface Book gives you a lot more, it's actually a 2-in-1 tablet and laptop device.
What's pretty astonishing is that you can get a 13" Spectre x360 with a 2.7GHz 7-th gen i7, 16Gb of memory and 512Gb of SSD for $1370, Windows Pro 10 included. And you can put Ubuntu on it if needed. This blows out of the water the new Macbook Pro specs wise, and it's much cheaper. And then if you don't need the top spec you can get a very decent spec for ~$1000, which is quite affordable.
It's all condensed into "HP Wide Vision FHD IR Camera with Dual array digital microphone" vs the Macbook's "720p camera".
Sales were poor to begin with, due to the Macbook line being neglected for so long, and overly expensive. My prediction is that with the new laptops, sales will do a bit better but not much better.
Actually I think the biggest problem is the sole use of USB-C. I actually have a phone with USB-C, and I never plug it into the laptop (I copy music directly from my Windows big machine), and otherwise the battery never needed recharging during the day. I have no other USB-C device and I doubt I'll be getting one soon. I imagine most people are in the same situation, and if you have an iPhone, it's worse.
It's almost like Apple is trying to make the MBP's into 'big iPads with keyboards'.
Closed architecture, plethora of adapters, maximum user inconvenience. Ford save you if you forget that ONE ADAPTER and are left looking like a noob asking if any of the Windoze users have the adapter.
I'm honestly confused by this statement. I would be interested to hear alternative suggestions.
Perhaps I misunderstand who you are calling "creative professionals" but I assume it is someone creating art such as photography, video, music, graphics, ... on a daily basis. I would assume that someone who uses Photoshop, Lightroom, Premier Pro, etc on a professional daily bases would have the short cut keys memorized. For those people, the touch bar may not help much.
Perhaps I'm weird. I use emacs every day which is extremely keyboard intensive with multiple chord keys for almost every key stroke and I have tons of its key mappings sunk into my subconscious. Its just no way around it. Call it wrote memory or practice. I assumed it is a very natural process. I have no doubt that the touch bar will not help me one iota in my emacs editing nor would I expect it to help me if I used a particular app frequently. It would be much quicker to hit command-foo than it would to lift up my hands and hit the touch bar.
But for the photography and video apps, I use them sporadically and I can't remember the short cut keys... not even for Lightroom which I use fairly often in comparison. So I see the touch bar as a good idea. I am hoping it will help me out a lot with the apps that I don't use often -- which is practically all of them.
I've seen suggestions like touch screens but that fails for a number of reasons in my case. First, my screen is rather far away when I'm actually sitting and working. I have a wireless key board and track pad. Part of my assumption with the touch bar is it will eventually be integrated into other keyboards. I assume the plans for the touch bar are not just a MBP thing but somehow other keyboards will integrate a touch bar as well.
The second problem is that, as mentioned in the video, you can go to full screen and not have the mess of various tabs and menus floating on the screen. You have the touch bar in its own, dedicated screen. (Curiously, emacs has its "command" area in its own separate dedicated "window".)
The third problem is "don't touch my screen!!!!". I don't really care if my phone or pad have finger prints. I'm not doing precise editing on it. But I think finger prints on my screen when I'm mucking with my photographs would annoy me a great deal.
Last... this is only a "feature"... sure it is hyped up -- probably over hyped right now especially. Maybe it will die a slow painful death or maybe it will catch on. I think it is worth exploring.
I'm not sure about this. First, this touchbar is almost as far away as the screen, and I think more awkward to access - it's flat up on the keyboard and behind the keys. Then you look at the screen, all the time, so if you need to touch something on it, the information (of what to touch, what it will do and where it is located) is already in your brain, while with this touchbar, it's not. You have to look at it, figure out what and where the controls are. Even if you're well versed with it, have explored it in advance and know the functions, it's still out of the normal interaction with the computer, because you look at your screen all the time, and not at a small OLED strip behind the keys.
Ergonomically I don't think it makes sense. It's a half-baked idea that sounds cool but I think it will be awkward and slow to use.
But perhaps I'm missing something so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and see one in person before making the final decision, but so far I think this will be a well-implemented gimmick that I won't need or use much, like "force touch".
I tried the same contextual bar in e-ink on the Lenovo version they released 3 years ago, and you're right about the wonky ergonomics.
You can test it right now. Put your fingers in typing position. Stretch to touch the screen hinge without leaving touch-type position: it stretches the muscles and tendons on the back of the hand, in a way that touching the screen doesn't, because you lift your palm.
That's fine for function keys that are only used a few dozen times an hour even in coding (although you can no longer touch-type them), but making the bar a new touch-pad level of usage (ie shortcuts)? It's an invitation to Carpal tunnel if you use proper hand position.
Well for #2 you just have to buy new cables for example I bought a USB-C to Micro B cable on Amazon for 6$ with shipping. I know we don't want to have to buy anything but thats what its going to be if you want to use todays/tomorrows technology. PS the Micro B cable is what (I think) the Galaxy 5 uses I bought it for my external HDD. I bought the poor people version of the PRO and used my daughters student discount put it in line with a refurbished 2015 Pro.
I think we first saw the Touch Bar prototyped on the 12.9 iPad Pro w/ASK. For those apps that support it, there is a ribbon at the bottom of the screen (nearest the keyboard) that some ways resembles the Touch Bar. It took some getting used to but it made sense because you're looking at the screen already and so it isn't much to lower your eyes to the ribbon.
I'm curious as to what changes will be made to iOS to enhance the ribbon in light of the Touch Bar.
Following the launch of the redesigned MacBook Pro, CNET has published an interview with Apple executives Phil Schiller, Jony Ive, and Craig Federighi, highlighting some of the design decisions that went into the new machine.
The contextual OLED Touch Bar on the new MacBook Pro, which is its key feature, has been in development under the direction of Jony Ive for at least two years, and according to Ive, it "marks a beginning" of a "very interesting direction" for future products.
Apple's new MacBook took so long to develop because the company didn't want to "just create a speed bump," aiming instead for something that's a "big, big step forward." Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller says the MacBook Pro will allow Apple to "create many things to come," some of which "we can't envision yet." He also said Apple isn't driven by a calendar, but is instead aiming to create "new innovations" in the Mac line.
Many customers are unhappy with the high price of the new MacBook Pro models, something Schiller addressed in the interview. An entry-level 13-inch MacBook Pro with a Touch Bar costs $1,799, a full $500 more than previous-generation models, and 15-inch models start at $2,399. Schiller says Apple cares about price, but has to design for experience rather than cost.The MacBook Pro's Touch Bar doesn't signal a future move into touchscreen Macs, something the Apple executives made clear. A Mac with a touchscreen isn't "particularly useful," Ive said, while Schiller said Apple investigated the possibility of converging iOS and Mac devices but decided against it.Both Federighi and Schiller believe the laptop is a form factor that's going to be around for a long time. "As far as our eyes can see, there will still be a place for this basic laptop architecture," Schiller said, pointing out that it's been useful for the past 25 years.
Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro model with no Touch Bar is available for purchase starting today and will deliver in just a few days. The new 13 and 15-inch models that do include Touch Bars are available for order, but won't ship until mid-to-late November.
Along with a Touch Bar, Apple's new MacBook Pros feature upgraded processors, new graphics capabilities, improved displays, faster SSDs, Thunderbolt 3 support, and 10 hour battery life.
CNET's full interview, which also focuses on the history of the Mac notebook lineup, is well worth checking out.
Article Link: Apple's Phil Schiller: 'We Don't Design for Price, We Design for the Experience'
I guess he really doesn't have a choice but to say that. But then if that is the case, why is the non-touch bar 13" inch Macbook Pro built with inferior PCI express speeds on one side of the device?
You know nothing of me. Did you actually read what I wrote? I talked of my own objective experience of using Mac equipment, notwithstanding any marketing.
...Of course we all can't completely avoid advertising, in one way or anther. An advert might tell you that a new product has been released, for example. - Little harm in being informed (unless one thinks that one is being brainwashed)...
You’re implying that you’re somehow immune to marketing. Essentially you’re bigging yourself up, suggesting that (unlike all the other “sheeple”), you’re somehow above it all.
Respectfully, you show all the signs of a conspiracy theorist.
Strange - you evidently have some kind of disdain for Apple, yet come all the way here to carp about it. Does that not strike you as odd?
I’m sure they’re good products, but I have no need for a Windows phone, for example. Therefore I won’t be going over to the Windows phone forum to bitch and moan, because I’ve got better things to do.
Surely you could learn something from this approach...
Anyway, I'll let you get back to making tin foil hats, or whatever it is you chaps get up to in your basements.
Toodle pip!
I love how you go "toodle pip" as if you're not mad, yet every time I reply with a 1-liner you send me another wall of text (which I don't read, sorry).
Honestly you're not convincing me or anybody else; the amount of defence you've shown to horrible business practices only proves to us you're either an Apple investor or you're deep in their reality distortion field.
[doublepost=1477843730][/doublepost]For the record, I have a MacBook Pro, I have an iPad Pro, I have a 6s. Yet you paint me with the brush of "Apple hater" because I have some very valid criticism to make. This is what reveals you right away as somebody brainwashed by their marketing; either people love Apple without question or they're haters if they complain about anything.
Toodle pip! :v
Concur that these extra dongles will be a pain in the wallet for most people…
Actually I use a Retina MacBook Pro in clamshell mode with a monitor anyway, so use the Mac’s old-school USB port (to drive a USB hub), + a wireless mouse & keyboard… + a Thunderbolt 2 to HDMI cable for the screen… so arguably it’s odd for me to be defending this latest machine, as with my current setup I couldn’t even use the Touch Bar.
However, admittedly I often unplug the machine and take it into various offices, so with a new MacBook the Touch Bar could be useful in that regard, for PS or FCPX etc..
"Pedzsan" in this thread mentioned the idea of the Touch Bar being eventually integrated into other keyboards, which is cool idea.
...So with this new Macbook, for my setup I’d need something like Apple’s Digital AV Multiport Adapter that’s just shy of £70 in the UK.
Or this:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...rc-hub-bourge-design-usb-c-port-apple-macbook
…Drive manufacturers will no doubt be putting a USB-C connector on their products in the new future too…
It's actually a cool new machine, if first looks are anything to go by. Massive trackpad, sounds fast, new Touch Bar UI experience (with useful stuff for writing like autocorrecting, quick things like bold / italics, + scrubbing through video, editing photos, etc.), …seems like a pretty solid update.
I agree too, however, with those who have suggested moving the touch bar, like between the trackpad and the keyboard, or even making the whole trackpad a touchscreen.
Still, wouldn’t be surprised that many who initially criticize the new machine will be impressed when they pick the thing up, but have to agree with the majority opinion here that it’s ridiculously expensive: perhaps so far I’ve been in denial about it…
Sadly Apple has finally become a fashion accessory company intent on selling impractical computers for the highest possible price. It is worse that the first and most important improvement was the odd mm off the thickness. I wonder if Apple has read The Emperor's New Clothes? I guess the next model will be 0mm thick, cost even more and will only be visible to the person buying it with a little magic or special optical implants. Everyone else will see through the scam. And to make matters worse they cannot even lose the money they make on NOT including a power cable. I have really enjoyed using Macs for many years (since before the PowerMac 6100 range) but there is no way I can justify spending this amount of money, plus dongles or new very expensive peripherals when there are plenty of laptops out there that will allow me to get on with my work just as well. Sadly the gulf between the rich (who think $3000 for a laptop {even $1500} for a stripped down one is OK) and the rest of us who actually live in the real world.
On the contrary, there’s little virtue in a quick, lazy one liner (unless its quite clever, which arguably yours haven't been).
Unfortunately you’ve also been quite rude so far.
Actually making a considered, well thought out, fair and reasonable (and long) response is the more intelligent and equitable approach.
Saying that you don’t read a reply is the height of ignorance. How would you know that I wasn’t agreeing with you, if you hadn’t read the response?
Elsewhere here (just now) I’ve magnanimously concluded (admitted) that the new Macs are ridiculously expensive anyway. If you read my very first post, I already admitted it there anyway.
Fair point of yours that a Mac user is allowed to criticize Apple - accepted. However, it doesn’t therefore follow that all who mention Apple in flattering terms are somehow brainwashed. …That’s just as incorrect as me assuming earlier you don’t use Mac products.
So, regardless of whether you use Mac equipment, my point still stands that it’s irrational (and discourteous) to assume that if somebody likes something about a product, they’re simply easily-led and prone to being brainwashed - especially if you know nothing about that person.
Thanks for playing though.
Toodle pip!
Ok cool thanks for the wall, still haven't read it
don't be so mad, it's only a computer forumOk cool thanks for the wall, still haven't read it
Oh, you'll read it. It's quite nice anyway.
Cheers!
No, I really won't. I've made my mind up about you many of your posts ago. You're clearly brainwashed by their marketing and arguing with you will never go anywhere.
Toodle pip cheerio!