Apple's Renewed Focus on iPad Left the Mac Behind This Year

[LordVic]

Of course.



I'm not dishonest at all. It's selling better than any laptop right now. That's the metric we should be looking at. If PC laptops sell x amount of units and the MacBook Pro is continuing to sell 1.5x units, then it's succeeding just fine against an already shrinking market place for computers.

Just out of curiousity, since no numbers have officially been released, where do you get the stat that it's selling more units than anyone else?

 

[maflynn]

That tells you something.

Yes, people rushed out to get the 2015 models over the 2016 models.

The best argument I've heard against the new Pros

For me, the arguments were lack of SD slots, magsafe, slower then the 2015 model (cpu wise), and less battery life. I think those are compelling arguments.

As for dongles, its a minor irritation that needs to be put up with until USB-C is more accepted.

 

[bladerunner2000]

I'm not dishonest at all. It's selling better than any laptop right now. That's the metric we should be looking at. If PC laptops sell x amount of units and the MacBook Pro is continuing to sell 1.5x units, then it's succeeding just fine against an already shrinking market place for computers.

Still being dishonest because you don't have the numbers. It's like you have no respect to anyone when speaking to them without regard for facts.

Although judging by the massive flack that the new MBPs are getting, you could make a very reasonable guess that it is certainly NOT selling.

STOP BEING DISHONEST.

 

[Icaras]

Just out of curiousity, since no numbers have officially been released, where do you get the stat that it's selling more units than anyone else?

There was an article posted on MR earlier right? That it was selling greater than any laptop in 2016?

edit: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/09/new-macbook-pro-has-outsold-all-competitors/

 

[bladerunner2000]

Just out of curiousity, since no numbers have officially been released, where do you get the stat that it's selling more units than anyone else?

He doesn't have the numbers because he's lying.

 

[newtito]

A relatively small company like Razer makes a laptop that is essentially what every Apple consumer would want with the bonus of it being cheaper and way better features as well as having a matte finish display (way better than having an effing mirror for a display):

http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/store/razer-blade

How Apple can't make a decent laptop is beyond me. But I suppose they're in the business of ripping off consumers?

Only problem is the OS. It's the only thing that keeps me with the Mac. I have used Windows 10, and while it is fine, there is still something about MacOS that keeps me here.

 

[Icaras]

Still being dishonest because you don't have the numbers. It's like you have no respect to anyone when speaking to them without regard for facts.

Although judging by the massive flack that the new MBPs are getting, you could make a very reasonable guess that it is certainly NOT selling.

STOP BEING DISHONEST.

Wow, and stop being so angry.

I never said I had numbers. I am saying it's selling well against the rest of the market based on previously reported news.

edit: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/09/new-macbook-pro-has-outsold-all-competitors/

 

[mkeeley]

What a snotty reply. How about people that write multi-million dollar contracts, manage departments of analyst, make presentations on projects and budgets, send proposals to clients? You know folks that have real jobs and make an excellent living doing it, but never use photoshop or encode/edit video. I am talking about people with significant responsibilities that need to get **** done. Why do some folks on this form think that only their needs represent real work and describe everyone else as unsophisticated boobs posting cat photos on facebook.....give me a break!

Who do it on an ipad? Give me a break!

 

[Icaras]

He doesn't have the numbers because he's lying.

Never said I had numbers.

Edit: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/09/new-macbook-pro-has-outsold-all-competitors/

 

[swajames]

And I'm not surprised there's still people like you to this day. Haters on about just everything Apple does have been around since that time in 1997. Heck, go check out the forum thread on the announcement of the first iPod on this forum. It'll be like looking in the mirror.

The point you're missing is that now more than ever many of those criticizing Apple now are the very opposite of "haters".

I see longtime Apple customers increasingly becoming frustrated and disappointed with the direction, decisions, products, strategy and execution from Apple's current leadership team.

I think these are legitimate concerns from customers who have long time loyalty to the brand and likely a significant prior investment in Apple products.

To dismiss these legitimate concerns with playground terms as vapid as "haters" adds nothing to the discussion and excuses what to my mind are very real problems at Apple.

 

[RobDacoder]

Still being dishonest because you don't have the numbers. It's like you have no respect to anyone when speaking to them without regard for facts.

Although judging by the massive flack that the new MBPs are getting, you could make a very reasonable guess that it is certainly NOT selling.

STOP BEING DISHONEST.

Yeah, I remember when everyone gave the iPhone flak too, Steve Ballmer most notably...

 

[peter2]

Fine. Disgruntled users.

And I'm not making excuses. The market is deciding, as per your confusion. You can attack me all day on this forum, while actual numbers keep rolling in for Apple. And that's how it's always been. Disgruntled users shout. Apple keeps selling.

But go on, keep being disgruntled.

One needs to wait a bit to see what the market has decided. Few (subjective) things I can tell you though:

- OS X used to be better with every generation. I always upgraded and the system actually became more responsive and stable. That ended with OS X 10.6.8, which I used for a long time until I was FORCED to upgrade (security updates stopped being provided).

- Similar story with iOS

- I bought ~100 macs in my life and what I feel is that the choices Apple makes (and the value their machines provide) are poorer and poorer. It seems many long time users feel the same. Admittedly, many people don't truly need a computer, they are fine with whatever device that can be used to browse the web. Apple is addressing these people as it is a big market. But for this market any device would suffice equally well as a mac/ipad/iphone (minus the fashion factor). The minute someone like Samsung provides this market with something marginally more cool than Apple, those customers are gone. You cannot grow indefinitely and, more importantly, that should not even be the target (which is what Apple even claims but stopped behaving accordingly some time ago).

I truly hope some company or the community will finally grab the OS X foundation (partially available e.g. in GNUStep), thus providing what is truly the jewel of Apple/Mac (which Apple is departing from anyway). Add to it a decent hardware that the system would be fine-tuned to and, at least for me, Apple can vanish with no regrets.

 

[robeddie]

The point you're missing is that now more than ever many of those criticizing Apple now are the very opposite of "haters".

I see longtime Apple customers increasingly becoming frustrated and disappointed with the direction, decisions, products, strategy and execution from Apple's current leadership team.

I think these are legitimate concerns from customers who have long time loyalty to the brand and likely a significant prior investment in Apple products.

To dismiss these legitimate concerns with playground terms as vapid as "haters" adds nothing to the discussion and excuses what to my mind are very real problems at Apple.

The problem is, I'm guessing the brass at Apple similarly dismisses us the same way these few remaining myopic fanboys on macrumors do.

Its simply astonishing to me that apple is taking a wonderful computer line and destroying it. Either no updates, or updates with severe limitations. So sad.

 

[Icaras]

The point you're missing is that now more than ever many of those criticizing Apple now are the very opposite of "haters".

I see longtime Apple customers increasingly becoming frustrated and disappointed with the direction, decisions, products, strategy and execution from Apple's current leadership team.

I think these are legitimate concerns from customers who have long time loyalty to the brand and likely a significant prior investment in Apple products.

To dismiss these legitimate concerns with playground terms as vapid as "haters" adds nothing to the discussion and excuses what to my mind are very real problems at Apple.

Look I get the frustration. I really do. I was very much looking forward to getting a sweet, refreshed design iMac this holiday season, but Apple did not deliver for me. And when I come to think of it, I think this is actually the first year in Apple's history that they've skipped out on any desktop refresh in one entire calendar year. I think that's pretty ridiculous myself!

But at the same time, I understand what Apple is trying to do with their iPad Pro initiative. I think it's just going to get more frustrating for Mac users here on out, but I also don't think the Mac is ever going to go away. Like Jobs said, we'll always need trucks.

I use the term "haters" because the already absurd amount of childish behavior this forum brings. But I apologize if using such a term offends people. I understand their are legitimate concerns here regarding the Mac and its very sensitive, but Apple has always been bold when moving tech forward. Whenever i heard complaints about removing ports, removing drives, removing this, that, etc. I can't help but roll my eyes because we've seen this over and over and over again.

My suggestion have always been if the Mac no longer suits you, then it's truly time to look in another direction.

 

[rowspaxe]

That title for the iPad commercial: "What's a Computer?" seems less ironic now and more a cry for help.

what is a computer? the pole on which i pitch my flippy floppy keyboard puptent. the smart keyboard is embarrassing

 

[LordVic]

There was an article posted on MR earlier right? That it was selling greater than any laptop in 2016?

edit: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/09/new-macbook-pro-has-outsold-all-competitors/

I see the confusion: This article was highly misleading and did a disservice by picking and nitpicking stats to back it up. And the statitistics provided are easily picked apart when you start analysing the numbers. (I'm an analyst by trade, so it's just something I do out of habit)

I made a post in that thread why the topic itself is extremely misleading and not an actual "true" statement. It's PR / Marketting fluff.

If taken at face value, it would be easy to come to the conclusion you did and repeat it, that they're the best selling laptop right now, But in reality, it was a misleading article.

(This isn't me trying to be a hater or anything, just me doing what I typically do and pick apart the numbers)

Dell currently has 6 (at least) different laptop product lines, that range in price from $500 to several thousand. And all come with multiple "tiered" products within each. With different CPU, RAM and hard drive options available on almost every item in their lineup

Lenovo is currently selling 16 different product offerings.

so taking the "best" offering from 16 other offerings doesn't really reflect reality. Especially since it's not comparing like to like products. Dell for example would need to sell 2.5 times the inspiron low end laptops to equal 1 rMBP in revenues. Which is silly since hey're not even in the same product categories.

These numbers are overall meaningless. If you want to see how the market really is working, you need to look at total volumes, which are released by many companies quarterly. And when you start looking at total volumes, (while we don't have the new rMBP numbers yet), Apple's entire computer lineup only puts them around the 5th/6th for actual units shipped, and (not including new laptops), that number has been slipping quarter after quarter.

thats why these numbers are absolutely meaningless as actual individual corporate revenue on a product lineup is absolutely meaningless in context of the industry. They are also almost contextually irrelevant to the company and Apple itself, since revenues do not equal profit, till costs are included. Apple might hvae brought in some great first week revenues with the rMBP, but until they actually do the financials, That still could be a losing amount.

this is absolutely nothing but Marketing and sales trying to pump up their chests. if you were to add up all the WinTel laptops, from all vendors, and all their laptop products, they would likely dwarf Apple's laptop revenues. And believe it or not, Companies like Dell, LEnovo, HP have all claimed profits on their devices too, so it's not like everyone in the WinTel world is just selling cheap crap at a loss to boast sales numbers.

Dell did one of the most impressive moves in the computer industry a few years back. They were in a similar place to where Apple is now (from a Stock/Wallstreet perspective) where Wallstreet investor demands for ever increasing profit margins, started to cripple Dell's ability to provide good quality products, at reasonable prices. Prices started going up. Quality went down as Dell started to become cheaper and cheaper on the back end in order to maintain and push profit margins. It almost killed them. Their stock tanked so hard that Dell bought back controlling interest in Dell, went back private and told wallstreet to pound sand.

since then, Dell has focused first on their quality first, and has absolutely seen them rebound in the most recent years. Once you start catering to your client, and not investors, money starts coming in because when a product meets peoples wants, desires and offers sufficient perceived values, People will buy your products. I feel like Apple is currently stuck in this rut where they are trying so hard to cater to investors that they are putting consumers 2nd. Mature markets such as PC's, and now even phones, cannot generally sustain a company that demands high profit margins, while the competition can offer far lower prices, and still maintain profitability.

the next 3-5 years will be the most interesting days at Apple HQ.


But nope, it wasn't because they were "The hottest sellers". the numbers were nitpicked.

For example, Before today's update, the charts only listed Dell's inspiron. Inspiron is NOT their big revenue generator. the XPS line is. And STILL even after the update, it's being spun and split. The XPS products are split and only reporting ONE of them (there's a 13 and 15" models).

meanwhile, the MacBook Pro revenues are all combined.

again, the TLDR: this article is absolutely 100% marketing Spin.

They've updated the original C|Net article with the XPS 13 and 15, again, Split into two categories, but when you combine them both, they are far closer to the newest MacBook Pro numbers. Yes, its over longer period of time, BUT that still doesn't account for the rest of Dell's lineups being far greater range in prices, plus, it still doesn't include Dell's Latitude or Precision laptops Once you add up All of Dell's Revenues from All their product categories in the laptop world, those numbers really don't show what Schill the Shill says they show.

They show that there was an extreme amount of pent up demand for a product thats share was slipping over the last year, and that initial, 5 days sales were good. Now, lets see how those numbers look over the next year. Will they stay stable? or will they do what the Apple watch did and drop 66% after the initial months (Initial month of Apple watch sales were estimated around 3.5m, but dropped to approximately 1million for each quarter afterwards)

 

[robeddie]

Yeah, I remember when everyone gave the iPhone flak too, Steve Ballmer most notably...

If you think this new crapbook pro is anything like the original iphone in terms of how it will impact people and the market ... you are seriously deluded.

 

[Pootmatoot]

Maybe they took Steve Jobs old quote stating, "Apple is organized like a start-up" a bit too literally and just have massive teams working on small specific things.

Given their scale, and how much of the innovation is based on 3rd party players, it is a bit baffling what a lot of the hardware staff actually do.

Razer's hardware division runs with 1/1000th of the staff 100,000th the budget, and churns out updated laptops 4 times quicker with internal engineering and finish not terribly different to Apple's.

 

[gugy]

Let me just put this way, I was planning this year to spend close to $10k on a new MBP, display, MacPro and Mac Mini if Apple had update it all. The MBP I am passing because I rather wait for V2. 16GB Ram doesn't cut because I am a pro Photoshop guy.
I end up only spending this year $1200 on an iPad Pro12/9 and AW that I might return. A lot of pro people are disappointed. Apple is really dropping the ball.

 

[zorinlynx]

I wonder what sales look like right now for Macs other than the Macbook Pro?

Could it be that models are still selling fairly well, and that's why they haven't been updated as often? To be honest, the performance jump over the years lately has been small between new models, and, for one example, the current 5K iMac is still a fabulous machine for most tasks.

That's not to say they shouldn't be updated, but people are upgrading computers less often, so maybe the update cycles are changing to reflect that?
[doublepost=1481052572][/doublepost]

Let me just put this way, I was planning this year to spend close to $10k on a new MBP, display, MacPro and Mac Mini if Apple had update it all. The MBP I am passing because I rather wait for V2. 16GB Ram doesn't cut because I am a pro Photoshop guy.
I end up only spending this year $1200 on an iPad Pro12/9 and AW that I might return. A lot of pro people are disappointed. Apple is really dropping the ball.

Get a refurbished Macbook Pro from the previous generation. Still amazing machines, better battery life than the new ones and real USB ports.

By the time that's lived out its lifespan Apple should have its act together, and/or moving to USB-C should be easier.

 

[robeddie]

Thanks for saying it in other words: The MacBook Pro is selling.

Again, not making excuses. I'm merely repeating lessons in history.

I think this particular history lesson will be looked back as a lesson in stupidy: 'How Apple killed a successful mac buisness'.

 

[Icaras]

I see the confusion: This article was highly misleading and did a disservice by picking and nitpicking stats to back it up. And the statitistics provided are easily picked apart when you start analysing the numbers. (I'm an analyst by trade, so it's just something I do out of habit)

I made a post in that thread why the topic itself is extremely misleading and not an actual "true" statement. It's PR / Marketting fluff.

If taken at face value, it would be easy to come to the conclusion you did and repeat it, that they're the best selling laptop right now, But in reality, it was a misleading article.

(This isn't me trying to be a hater or anything, just me doing what I typically do and pick apart the numbers)

Regardless if it was or was not the best selling laptop, would you call the MBP a flop?

 

[bladerunner2000]

The point you're missing is that now more than ever many of those criticizing Apple now are the very opposite of "haters".

I see longtime Apple customers increasingly becoming frustrated and disappointed with the direction, decisions, products, strategy and execution from Apple's current leadership team.

I think these are legitimate concerns from customers who have long time loyalty to the brand and likely a significant prior investment in Apple products.

To dismiss these legitimate concerns with playground terms as vapid as "haters" adds nothing to the discussion and excuses what to my mind are very real problems at Apple.

You think that matters to apple loyalists?
If Apple releases junk and charges more money, it doesn't matter!
If Apple locks down their hardware with proprietary parts, it doesn't matter!
If Apple makes their internals soldered effectively making it a disposable product, it doesn't matter!
Or if Apple makes their devices needlessly thinner at the cost of battery life, performance, upgradeability, or locks down the OS, chooses inferior GPUs, tosses out standard ports like the 3.5mm or USB-A, refuses to use USB-C on iPhones and release one that you can't connect to your laptop without yet another DONGLE...

IT DOES NOT MATTER!

None of that matters AT ALL apparently! Despite what the consumers have been BITCHING about for years, all the comments here in the forums, social media, blogs and tech sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and elsewhere, you STILL have some guy like Icaras that's going to completely LIE to your face and tell you 'Yeah, YOU the consumer asked for it' when in reality you and everyone else KNOWS they did not. Nobody asked Apple to completely disrespect the consumer by releasing absolute PIG SCHLOCK GARBAGE. The Mac Pro still sells for $2,999 to start with a GPU based on a chipset from 2012!

God DAMN it I'm sick of guys like Icaras completely spreading bull**** like this. Why is this kind of garbage being tolerated for so many years... release after release of products continually going downhill and still we have guys saying 'No! The products are great, just look at the numbers and you consumers drove that market!'

 

[davidb367]

LMAO! You should apply "OVERPRICED" to just about everything Apple sells. A standard $1000 macbook has the same internals as a $400 PC.
I do give credit to apple for their build quality though. Surface Book is the the only contender build quality
wise.

I suspect that Microsoft will get better with build quality as they gain more experience in hardware manufacturing. Apple contracts out all of it's components and manufacturing. These resources are available to Microsoft to use as well.

 

[Icaras]

I think this particular history lesson will be looked back as a lesson in stupidy: 'How Apple killed a successful mac buisness'.

Sure, we'll see. If you're implying that the choices they made with the MBP are killing the business, then I don't agree with that. Both it and the new MacBook are hot machines and will lead Apple's Mac business.

Completely dismissing their desktop lineup however is detrimental however.

It looks like we're approaching Steve Job's prediction that Apple will one day sell 90% laptops.