I wasn't saying that Qualcomm is solely responsible for 5G. Of course they're not. But they do own a lot of the IP, along with foundational technologies from 4G LTE and earlier generations as well.
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Apple's Roadmap for Using Qualcomm's 5G Modems in Future Products Revealed, Including X60 in 2021
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I wasn't saying that Qualcomm is solely responsible for 5G. Of course they're not. But they do own a lot of the IP, along with foundational technologies from 4G LTE and earlier generations as well.
Maybe Apple will quit with the stupid numbering and name them properly like all their other products.
iPhone Mini
iPhone
iPhone Pro
iPhone Pro Max
No different than MacBook Pro or iPad, iPad Air, iPad Pro, etc.
iOS 13 and the A13 Bionic were both released in China, so what makes you think the iPhone will be different?
hmm, from Qualcomm's announcement in Feb 2020: "Qualcomm Technologies is scheduled to ship samples of Snapdragon X60 and QTM535 in the first quarter of 2020, with commercial premium smartphones using the new Modem-RF System expected in early 2021"
Qualcomm Introduces Third-Generation 5G Modem-RF System to Enhance 5G Performance Globally | Qualcomm
Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. today announced the Snapdragon X60 5G Modem-RF System, its third-generation 5G modem-to-antenna solution (the Snapdragon X60). Snapdragon X60 features the world’s first 5-nanometer 5G baseband and is the world’s first 5G
"came out", announcement vs samples vs production units - big difference
Indeed. When they switched to Intel from the 7 to the 11/SE they were far behind in performance that I can see them going to the best modem after years of being embarrassed throughout the whole saga since the Intel deal and everything happened. Definitely something Apple needs to avoid in the future
To be honest, I'm NOT sure any of this is news.
The basic timeframe has been known since early this year.
Reported on a number of other, more Technical, websites.
The basic timeframe has been known since early this year.
Reported on a number of other, more Technical, websites.
Thanks!
The license agreement is for 6 years, which refers to their patents, etc. They didn't specify how long the chipset agreement is for, which is separate. The CEO was also asked how long the chipset agreement is for, and he wouldn't say. They only said "multi-year". I wouldn't be surprised if it ended in 2024, and that's when we see Apple's first 5G modem integrated into the SoC, as a result of them buying Intel's modem business last year.
Looks like it will be X60 (2021), X65 (2022), X70 (2023), Apple modem? (2024). It sounds like they may use their own modem in 2023 instead if it's ready early. They're leaving the door open to using the X70 if they need an extra year it sounds like.
Imagine not purchasing a phone because the best modem in the world isn’t good enough for you.
If it was, no one else seemed to notice them. Do you have any links?
Some places (DigiTimes) were reporting that the iPhone 12 would use the X60 modem this year.
Chinese young generation doesn't care about superstition. You are thinking of the older generation!
It might be sooner -- nothing that we know of requires them to use all of the Qualcomm chips this roadmap speaks to.
the fact that apple did use intel modem shows apple doesn't select best performing chips for their phone. even after due diligence.
Qualcomm doesn't do the Wi-Fi part, only the cellular modem.
Apple uses Broadcom Wi-Fi chips.
a related question is when we can expect Apple to start supporting Wi-Fi 6E in its devices, especially Mac, iPhone, iPad (does Wi-Fi 6E make sense for Apple Watch?).
Does Apple intend to continue using Broadcom as its Wi-Fi supplier for the foreseeable future, and if so is there any information available yet about Broadcom's Wi-Fi 6E product plans?
Next year, I'm guessing. Broadcom has already started making 6E chips.
But you need a wireless router that also supports 6E, which I think there's only one of so far.
I assume Apple will continue to use Broadcom, since they make the best Wi-Fi chips.
Apple didn’t buy Intel’s wireless modem intellectual property to build their custom one ? And now we learn they will be using Qualcomm modems until 2024??!
Investment went bad I think ...
Investment went bad I think ...
Apple bought Intel's modem business after they reached this agreement with Qualcomm.
Qualcomm deal was announced in April 2019. Intel modem purchase was July 2019.
Nothing "went bad", it just takes years to develop a modem, especially if they want it to work well.
Apple and Broadcom have a very strong, good working relationship together, and they have used Broadcom since the first iPhone so yes they will still use Broadcom😊
They follow Apple typical of US corporations, bully, use government, sanctions, patent, lawsuits etc to protect their monopolistic practices.
As such 5G is not standard essential for everyone unless someone wants higher speed. LTE & 4G is sufficient.
If Huawei were there this ransom for every bit of improvement from QC would not have happened. Rest of the industry is far behind QC wrt modem tech...
Apple must design it's own Modems if they want to control their prices but of course they need to do it without infringing QC IPs..even then it may not reduce prices of its products but expect their suppliers to give them cutting edge tech at throw away prices is a different matter.
Technology and innovation being throttled by these cartels in mobile tech industry at this point.
I am just going to answer most of the question here.
1. Both Samsung and Huawei have Modem Supporting mmWave. The reason most of their phone dont ship with that features is simply because most carrier on planet earth does not see ( or does not *know* ) how mmWave is going to help their 5G business. Only in US, and specifically Verizon decided to do wide mmWave Deployment. Whether it works remains to be seen. But in terms of building construction and city population density it make more sense than say in China or South Korea. ( Line of Sight and Leasing Arrangement )
2. Samsung has an agreement with Qualcomm to use their SoC as part of the patent settlement. And they end up using Qualcomm in the US version.
3. Qualcomm mmWave module is also slightly smaller than both Huawei and Samsung's counterpart. But to suggest only Qualcomm has mmWave support is objectively false.
4. The Multi-Year supply agreement was well known. Both from investor notes and court document. So I fail to see anything new here. Apple's intention to use is not a *guarantee* statement. Although in reality it is pretty much done because you cant make a decent modem in months. The whole Modem and Antenna Design Phase has to be done 14 months ahead of launch, this was known to the industry and shown in court document with both Apple / Samsung vs Qualcomm Case.
5. That is why we keep calling out the BS when media likes to spin Apple using their own Modem in 2021 / 2022. It just doesn't make any sense. It takes longer than a year to port the Intel 5G Modem design to TSMC, where it previously was Fabbed with Intel 10nm. Let alone parts of the Modem IP in Intel's 5G were not included in the sale to Apple. ( Specific x86 ISA usage within the modem ) Not to mention designing a Modem is hard, designing a modem that is *anywhere* near as good as Qualcomm is downright impossible. Remember Qualcomm's Modem is a moving target. You want to beat X55? They are already on X60.
6. Unless Apple actively participate in the 3GPP Standardisation process, I dont think they will be able to keep up. The industry is doing many ground breaking improvement at an insane pace. Remember 10 years ago Mobile Network could barely hold the capacity of 5% of today's usage. ( May be after at the end of 5G or 6G... but we are still 8-10 years away from that )
7. It makes much more sense to make their own WiFi and Bluetooth controller instead. That is being used in *every* Apple shipping product, closing in to 300M unit a year. They are doing it with Ultra Low Power, but in the performance category they are still using Broadcom. And that is why every few years you see Bloomberg reporting Broadcom looking to sell their WiFi. That is Broadcom ultimatum with Apple if they dont pay a fair price. And so far Apple doesn't seems to be interested in Hi-Pref WiFi controller either. Despite WiFi 802.11 Standard being a much slower moving target than 3GPP.
8. And in Qualcomm Settlement, Apple is now paying SEP patents direct to Qualcomm. Where previously it was through Foxconn. This also allows Apple to make their own Modem as Patents payment and Modem payment are now two separated issues. ( It always was. Despite what Apple have stated in the public )
If you want to read more about the topic but dont want to go deep into Court Document, I suggest Shara Tibken from Cnet. Excellent Reporting specific to 5G. Having previously sided with Apple in the case, because Tim Cook said Apple paid more patents than the next 6 SEP holder combined ( Shown in court as not true ) I have grown tremendous respect for Qualcomm and their CEO from both Samsung and Apple's cases against them. They are expensive, sure. But what is wrong with paying more for the best? ( They can be quite hostile though. But I mean anyone who have ever dealt with any US company will know how they are ALL very aggressive. )
1. Both Samsung and Huawei have Modem Supporting mmWave. The reason most of their phone dont ship with that features is simply because most carrier on planet earth does not see ( or does not *know* ) how mmWave is going to help their 5G business. Only in US, and specifically Verizon decided to do wide mmWave Deployment. Whether it works remains to be seen. But in terms of building construction and city population density it make more sense than say in China or South Korea. ( Line of Sight and Leasing Arrangement )
2. Samsung has an agreement with Qualcomm to use their SoC as part of the patent settlement. And they end up using Qualcomm in the US version.
3. Qualcomm mmWave module is also slightly smaller than both Huawei and Samsung's counterpart. But to suggest only Qualcomm has mmWave support is objectively false.
4. The Multi-Year supply agreement was well known. Both from investor notes and court document. So I fail to see anything new here. Apple's intention to use is not a *guarantee* statement. Although in reality it is pretty much done because you cant make a decent modem in months. The whole Modem and Antenna Design Phase has to be done 14 months ahead of launch, this was known to the industry and shown in court document with both Apple / Samsung vs Qualcomm Case.
5. That is why we keep calling out the BS when media likes to spin Apple using their own Modem in 2021 / 2022. It just doesn't make any sense. It takes longer than a year to port the Intel 5G Modem design to TSMC, where it previously was Fabbed with Intel 10nm. Let alone parts of the Modem IP in Intel's 5G were not included in the sale to Apple. ( Specific x86 ISA usage within the modem ) Not to mention designing a Modem is hard, designing a modem that is *anywhere* near as good as Qualcomm is downright impossible. Remember Qualcomm's Modem is a moving target. You want to beat X55? They are already on X60.
6. Unless Apple actively participate in the 3GPP Standardisation process, I dont think they will be able to keep up. The industry is doing many ground breaking improvement at an insane pace. Remember 10 years ago Mobile Network could barely hold the capacity of 5% of today's usage. ( May be after at the end of 5G or 6G... but we are still 8-10 years away from that )
7. It makes much more sense to make their own WiFi and Bluetooth controller instead. That is being used in *every* Apple shipping product, closing in to 300M unit a year. They are doing it with Ultra Low Power, but in the performance category they are still using Broadcom. And that is why every few years you see Bloomberg reporting Broadcom looking to sell their WiFi. That is Broadcom ultimatum with Apple if they dont pay a fair price. And so far Apple doesn't seems to be interested in Hi-Pref WiFi controller either. Despite WiFi 802.11 Standard being a much slower moving target than 3GPP.
8. And in Qualcomm Settlement, Apple is now paying SEP patents direct to Qualcomm. Where previously it was through Foxconn. This also allows Apple to make their own Modem as Patents payment and Modem payment are now two separated issues. ( It always was. Despite what Apple have stated in the public )
If you want to read more about the topic but dont want to go deep into Court Document, I suggest Shara Tibken from Cnet. Excellent Reporting specific to 5G. Having previously sided with Apple in the case, because Tim Cook said Apple paid more patents than the next 6 SEP holder combined ( Shown in court as not true ) I have grown tremendous respect for Qualcomm and their CEO from both Samsung and Apple's cases against them. They are expensive, sure. But what is wrong with paying more for the best? ( They can be quite hostile though. But I mean anyone who have ever dealt with any US company will know how they are ALL very aggressive. )
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