Apple's Rumored Amazon Echo Competitor Could Be a Next-Generation Apple TV

[69Mustang]

4K is kind of like Bluray was when it came out. Everybody marketed supporting it but Apple. Apple elected not to support it because licensing fees were high and the hit on hardware performance because of mandated DRM was high. That stuff never did get ironed out. Places like Redbox still largely rent DVDs not Blueray.

Here 4K is mostly just for marketing purposes. Although 4K TVs are common, available content is low. Most 4K content is compressed, and isn't much better than 1080 uncompressed.

More importantly, there are lots of technical hurdles. 4K uses significantly more data. Most people have data caps. Also there is speed issues. Netflix has some 4K compressed content, but my internet provider doesn't provide speeds good enough to receive the 1080 content at full quality much less 4K. Also there are hurdles related to wifi speeds.

Apple recognizes 4K as downloadable content is concerned is not yet there yet.

Argument doesn't hold water. Apple's other devices are 4K compatible. This is the only exception. If 4K is only for marketing purposes then Apple is marketing the hell out it. Heck, Apple's already gone past 4K into 5K and higher territory (rumored 8K).

Bolded from your quote: There aren't a lot of technical hurdles to implementing 4K. Yes it uses more data and some people have caps. It's not an all or nothing proposition where everyone has to use 4K or no one can. For those who can, the option should be there. 4K video also consumes a lot of memory. That didn't stop Apple from adding that capability to a 16GB phone.

 

[ovo6]

They should just make a tv already and make it super fast with apps

 

[Karma*Police]

I don't get why it needs to be a part of Apple TV. I don't get why they'd even consider a standalone device like Echo. Just make all their devices always listening like the 6S.

The ultimate would be to make the Watch more powerful/self-sufficient and I wouldn't need a bunch of these standalone devices all over the house... Siri would always be on my wrist.

Make it smart enough to respond to the closest Bluetooth/AirPlay speaker and I'd be set... and Apple would sell a lot of beats pill speakers. I'll stick with JBLs though.

 

[jimmirehman]

They need to drop an i5 in it, add 4k, add TV tuner, support 3D, 128GB/256GB of Storage, Siri remote, gesture control via Apple Watch by raising your hand to activate and call it the AppleTV Pro for $249-$299.

Shrink the AppleTV 4 into an HDMI Stick powered by your TV's USB Port 64GB/128GB and call it the AppleTV Mini for $99-$149

 

[Icaras]

They should just make a tv already and make it super fast with apps

I'd still buy a TV if Apple made it, even if it was just a dummy display like the Thunderbolt Display.

 

[rp2011]

4K is the elimination of the 3.5 jack for the Apple TV . Who gives a rats ass other than a few dorks.

4K will be a must-have soon some day, but 4K sets are not flying off the shelves and of the minority of consumers who do have one, how many own an Apple TV? And what services are they planning on using? Streaming services are spotty on 4K and TV programming is nill.
No one is clammoring for 4K or could give a rats as about the 3.5 jack. People are bugging.

 

[ChrisCW11]

This would be the wrong approach as both Amazon and Google created a standalone product untethered to the TV, yet can still work seamlessly with their TV set-top boxes. The whole point of these things is to integrate with EVERYTHING, it's a HOME assistant, not a TV assistant. These home assistants shouldn't be defined by the thing they are connected to. Apple TV is for entertainment, Apple would need to create a Siri home assistant companion product to compete properly with Echo or Google Home.

I am sure this article is just speculation by a naive fanboi, but if Apple tried to turn their next Apple TV into an Echo or Google Home competitor it will prove that Apple doesn't much game anymore and is just glomming features into products in a desperate scramble to remain relevant while their competition pulls light years ahead by actually defining new markets before Apple. If I have to push a button and speak into my remote control to make my lights go on, it's game over for Apple man.

 

[Nunyabinez]

All consumer HD and 4K contents, including broadcast, cable, satellite, streaming, DVD, and Blu-ray, are compressed. It's the degree of compression that varies depending on the medium and contents, but they are all heavily compressed. Uncompressed video varies from 1-4 Gbps for 4K and 600 Mbps-1.2 Gbps for 1080p. Blu-Ray 4K is probably the least compressed consumer format, but you are still looking at maximum bitrate of 128 Mbps at the most (most are about half).

Having said that, compression isn't bad. H.265 (HEVC) is about 50% more efficient than H.264 that most of us use today. And H.264 was about 50% more efficient than H.262 (MPEG-2) before it. At sufficient enough bitrate, most of us won't tell the difference between H.265 and uncompressed video.

As for 4K being marketing, I partially agree. Some contents just don't look appreciably better unless you sit much closer and compare. But HDR is starting to accompany more and more 4K contents, which is almost as dramatic as going from 480p to 1080p. And video isn't the only 4K contents. Apple TV UI, apps, and photos all benefit from 4K resolution.

The bottom line is, 4K is the future whether you admit it or not. 4K TVs are way cheaper now than last year. I bet by next year, practically all larger TVs on the market will be 4K minimum.

I actually would like to buy a 4K TV, but the issue for me is that I would like to use it as a monitor as well. At this point only high end TVs can do 4K, 60Hz 4:4:4 Chroma. As soon as a TV is affordable with that capability I'll buy it as a monitor and then let the content catch up for watching TV and movies..

 

[rp2011]

This would be the wrong approach as both Amazon and Google created a standalone product untethered to the TV, yet can still work seamlessly with their TV set-top boxes. The whole point of these things is to integrate with EVERYTHING, it's a HOME assistant, not a TV assistant. These home assistants shouldn't be defined by the thing they are connected to. Apple TV is for entertainment, Apple would need to create a Siri home assistant companion product to compete properly with Echo or Google Home.

I am sure this article is just speculation by a naive fanboi, but if Apple tried to turn their next Apple TV into an Echo or Google Home competitor it will prove that Apple doesn't much game anymore and is just glomming features into products in a desperate scramble to remain relevant while their competition pulls light years ahead by actually defining new markets before Apple. If I have to push a button and speak into my remote control to make my lights go on, it's game over for Apple man.

It's the obvious choice. Like a nose on a face.
A lot of people thought it was a sure thing for the last upgrade .

 

[gaximus]

This would have to be it. I see something closer to an Amazon Dot, not a revamped ATV. The mic can't be as close to the television as most ATV's are.


This argument doesn't work considering Apple seems to be going all-in on 4K. All of their major products support it with one glaring exception: the ATV. Even if there was no 4K beyond content produced on Apple devices one would think the ATV would be the perfect place to display it.

Apple didn't release a 1080P Apple TV until their entire movie library supported it. Then if you had bought a movie through iTunes at 720 you could watch it in 1080P, I bet/hope they are doing the same thing with 4K.

 

[nutmac]

I actually would like to buy a 4K TV, but the issue for me is that I would like to use it as a monitor as well. At this point only high end TVs can do 4K, 60Hz 4:4:4 Chroma. As soon as a TV is affordable with that capability I'll buy it as a monitor and then let the content catch up for watching TV and movies..

I am not sure where you draw the line of "high-end", but most HDR 4K TVs support 4K @ 6Hz @ 4:4:4, such as Vizio P series.

 

[shiseiryu1]

It would make sense to have the AppleTV have that functionality. It's a unnecessarily small device which they could make larger to add more functionality. Having 4k I guess would be ok but really it needs to be packaged with a game controller so that it can actually be a decent gaming device. Make it a few bucks more but at least it'll be great at everything it does.

 

[Thunderhawks]

I'm just here with my popcorn for the jokes about Siri, ignore me in the corner.

There ya go:

"Siri, you are being made fun off by 0029937"

Siri: No need to be snarky!

"No, he says he is here with popcorn."

Siri: The nearest Longhorn restaurant is 2 miles away (opens maps)

"He wants to be ignored in the corner."

Siri: "Yes, inside an igloo it is warmer."

 

[shiseiryu1]

Also, watching TV with apps really sucks. For each app you have to "confirm" that you have a cable subscription which even when you do is super annoying. Please Apple, Please!... Make it fun and easy to watch shows and stuff through the Apple TV. I don't care what you have to do...buy Charter, buy Netflix, bribe greedy CEOs...just throw us consumers a bone please!

 

[gaximus]

the remote is so damn horribly designed. the slightest touch screws up what i'm watching. drives me crazy. and yes...it gets lost all the dame time!

Also the remote is too damn symmetrical. I can't tell which direction its facing in the dark. I will try to change the volume and end up exiting the app.

 

[Nunyabinez]

I am not sure where you draw the line of "high-end", but most HDR 4K TVs support 4K @ 6Hz @ 4:4:4, such as Vizio P series.

I'll have to look again. Last time I looked everything under $1000 was 4:2:2. Maybe, I'm too cheap .

 

[Mark Holmes]

Amazon solved the problem by developing the Dot. Essentially 6 microphones, Internet, No Speaker. Theirs directed at the home entertainment systems. Apple could do essentially the same thing with a small device added to existing ATV and build it into the next generation. Another example when Sling added functionality to existing DVR's then built in on new DVR's.

This. I can be in the next room from my Amazon Echo and it will perfectly understand me. Combine the Echo with an Apple TV and you're onto something.

 

[ConnorMcJeebus]

They are almost never first to market. Usually they take their time and implement/integrate features better than anyone else.

Maybe some while ago, but not lately. Apple Music, Beats, Siri, iCloud Drive, Maps, AppleTV, hump-shaped battery cases for iPhone, 4500 RPM HDDs, watches that require you to own an iPhone, iTunes, 16 GB storage for 2016 phones, single-port laptops for $1,500 (CAD), etc. I'm prettttty sure that others have products with features better integrated/implemented than those.

There are features that Apple does do better than others, of course. But, more often than not, they are remnants of the Jobs-era and not recent. Apple seems to have trouble focusing as of late...like Siri...they start with such ambition and promise, then they get side-tracked with cars and Beats and watch bands. Now Siri is left far behind in terms of intelligence and usefulness.

 

[ovo6]

Funny think Apple can end Netflix and everybody with a video subscription like Apple Music

 

[bopajuice]

Earlier this week, The Information said Apple was actively developing an in-home hub that would compete with the Amazon Echo and the Google Home, and now VentureBeat has shared new details on the product and its prospective features.

Citing an unnamed source, VentureBeat says rather than developing a new product, Apple could add Echo-like features to a revamped version of the Apple TV. The Amazon Echo, for those unfamiliar, is an in-home personal assistant device with a built-in speaker and a robust AI system. The Echo is able to perform a wide range of functions, from giving weather reports and answering queries to controlling smart home devices.

A future version of the Apple TV may gain a dedicated microphone and speaker, along with deeper Siri integration to allow it to function like the Echo. Processing queries and serving up results is said to require additional computing infrastructure, which Apple is working on. It is not clear what extra computing infrastructure is needed as the fourth-generation Apple TV includes the same A8 processor that was used in the iPhone 6 and the iPhone 6 Plus, two devices more than capable of processing Siri inquiries.Apple reportedly considered several options, ranging from a more comprehensive Siri implementation in the Apple TV to an improved Siri Remote to a standalone Echo-like product, but the standalone option was dropped in favor of furthering development on the Apple TV.

VentureBeat's report does not include details on when a next-generation Apple TV box with the aforementioned features could be released, but a late 2015 rumor from DigiTimes suggested Apple was already at work on a fifth-generation Apple TV with a new CPU and redesigned heat-dissipation solution to go along with it.

Turning the Apple TV (or another hardware product) into an Amazon Echo competitor will require more robust Siri capabilities, which could come as soon as iOS 10. Apple is said to be working on a Siri SDK, allowing third-party developers to build Siri support into their apps.

Article Link: Apple's Rumored Amazon Echo Competitor Could Be a Next-Generation Apple TV

[doublepost=1464298520][/doublepost]Who would have guessed that Apple would be playing the catchup game.

 

[carrrrrlos]

Logical step. but wait is it still an Apple TV?
Apple is in need of a naming overhaul on a couple things.

Apple TV - Isn’t really a TV at all.
iTunes - Has way less to do with tunes than the other half dozen or so apps they’ve crammed into it.
Photos - It’s photos and videos, and live photos.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

The thing is, it really doesn't matter whether it's a Mac, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, Apple TV... any of these devices can and will be connected/integrated for control of Home, Car, etc. One billion devices in active service.

This is the thing everyone is missing on the whole Echo thing. Amazon and Google do not have all these speaker- and microphone-equipped, internet-connected devices deployed, while Apple does. Apple isn't playing catch-up, Amazon is. Amazon has to sell a box to expand its penetration, Apple just has to deploy software updates/improvements.

(I'd include Android devices in this, but considering how hard it is to get the latest software deployed to anything but the latest generation of hardware, Google is still at a disadvantage.)

 

[ksnell]

Maybe some while ago, but not lately. Apple Music, Beats, Siri, iCloud Drive, Maps, AppleTV, hump-shaped battery cases for iPhone, 4500 RPM HDDs, watches that require you to own an iPhone, iTunes, 16 GB storage for 2016 phones, single-port laptops for $1,500 (CAD), etc. I'm prettttty sure that others have products with features better integrated/implemented than those.

There are features that Apple does do better than others, of course. But, more often than not, they are remnants of the Jobs-era and not recent. Apple seems to have trouble focusing as of late...like Siri...they start with such ambition and promise, then they get side-tracked with cars and Beats and watch bands. Now Siri is left far behind in terms of intelligence and usefulness.

Agreed. That's where the "usually" comes in.

 

[PlainviewX]

Never thought it would be a stand alone.

 

[knemonic]

This.
Someone needs to develop in-home 'telepresence' style comms systems. It should be Apple, building on FaceTime.

Skype have recently pulled out of this, I believe, going as far as totally disabling support for Skype on smart TVs withdrawing the app. IIRC they cited the reason that their research showed people preferred to video-chat on handheld devices while using the TV for other things at the same time.

But, there's not a great solution currently for families who want a group of people in the picture at once, when video-chatting with other family members elsewhere.

There are a ton of people out there that have family elsewhere that want to FaceTime. When a baby is born, being in the living room is a perfect place to video chat.

They need to design a wide angle camera that can fit a whole room with little distortion, and make it easy to zoom with the remote.

I don't get how every laptop, tablet and phone has a camera but not tvs. I have a Mac mini setup with a camera but it's a process to get it all going for FaceTime.