Apple's Rumored Amazon Echo Competitor Could Be a Next-Generation Apple TV

[Terrinb]

Please! Don't forget to support 4K video, for that reason I ended buying the Roku 4.

4K is kind of like Bluray was when it came out. Everybody marketed supporting it but Apple. Apple elected not to support it because licensing fees were high and the hit on hardware performance because of mandated DRM was high. That stuff never did get ironed out. Places like Redbox still largely rent DVDs not Blueray.

Here 4K is mostly just for marketing purposes. Although 4K TVs are common, available content is low. Most 4K content is compressed, and isn't much better than 1080 uncompressed.

More importantly, there are lots of technical hurdles. 4K uses significantly more data. Most people have data caps. Also there is speed issues. Netflix has some 4K compressed content, but my internet provider doesn't provide speeds good enough to receive the 1080 content at full quality much less 4K. Also there are hurdles related to wifi speeds.

Apple recognizes 4K as downloadable content is concerned is not yet there yet.

 

[Carl Sagan]

A majority of the 'millions of customers' would cheerfully (or not) give Apple a mulligan if a high-end AppleTV device was released that had a crapload of new bells and whistles.

While there are a lot of people that don't have TV's, I would be surprised to find that there was a high correlation between wanting home automation and not having a TV. That said, it could be equally easy to make the AppleTV configurable as headless device.

Better Siri wouldn't be enough, it needs a proper Netflix equivalent. Apple needs to do an Apple Music (not the interface!) for tv and film on Apple TV...

 

[cuhulin]

Not to hijack this thread, but misery continues for the Caps until they reach the SCF.

Where they will be eaten by Sharks?

 

[cmichaelb]

I think they are referring to the problem I have. I will be watching Prism TV and all my cat has to do is walk by and touch the TV remote and my receiver changes to output the TV and I have to use the Prism TV remote and about 6 button presses to get back to the output Prism TV is on. I *could* turn off the HDMI interaction that allows the remote to also change my receiver to the correct output but I like it most of the time. It would be nicer if the action to change outputs was separate from the trackpad that's so sensitive.

Cat has to go. /s

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

What I like is people who call other people stupid when they don't know what they are talking about. I use my Amazon Echo from 12 feet away all the time. Works great.

This is very true and an excellent point. I recall my first time using Skype with Xbox Kinect in an office meeting. I thought, there is no way this microphone will work with people sitting 10 - 20 feet away from it... it was flawless, and was even really good and figuring out who was speaking and zooming in on them. This was 2 years ago, it can only be getting better. I've heard nothing but praise for Amazon Echo from my friends who have bought it... pretty sure I'll be jumping on that bandwagon shortly as well.

The tech is out there, Apple is just not producing it these days.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Genuine question: exactly what would everyone love Siri to do on Apple TV as a real Echo competitor? What's your top three use cases?

 

[gaximus]

It makes a great deal of sense to integrate Echo-like features (essentially Always On Siri) to Apple TV, although for this feature to shine, HDMI-CEC needs to work more reliably to wake up connected TV.

This is one of the reasons why Apple should make a TV of its own, or at least a stripped down large monitor that is sold as an accessory to Apple TV, iPhone/iPad, and Macs.

My TV works great for turning on using the CEC, only problem is it doesn't turn off. Not sure if its an apple problem or my TV. Also if I'm using my PS4 and use the apple remote to change the volume, it'll switch to the AppleTV input, which is infuriating.

 

[dampfnudel]

How many people actually have a 4k capable tv? I can understand why they saved that for a future model.
[doublepost=1464290231][/doublepost]

I bet most iPhone users are NOT shooting 4k video.

I've recorded one 4K video with my 6s. Maybe someday I'll be able to see it, like in 2 or 3 years when I upgrade to a 4K TV. My current HDTVs are only 2-3 years old. I like to keep my TVs at least 5 or 6 years, if not longer. Most people are years away from having the ability to view 4K.

 

[robbysibrahim]

4K would be nice, but I'm not sure what I would do with it since:

1. I don't own a 4K set yet
2. I don't have a 4K capable Bluray
3. No one seems able to stream uncompressed 4K to me

Of course that will change in the future, but I'm not missing it as of yet.

4K would be nice and I k now exactly what I'd do with it since:

1. I own a 4K set
2. I run a Plex sever
3. I have 4K videos just waiting to be streamed

 

[Rigby]

Hardly. Every I see has them out all the time when sitting around.

What if someone in the family wants to use Siri while the owner of the phone is somewhere else? The whole point of Echo and similar devices is that they are always there and listening.

Another thing is that Echo has much better speakers than a phone.

 

[duffman9000]

I swear that Siri used to be better at understanding me. This is me Sunday in my car:

Me: "Hey Siri, play album Believe, Hope, Endure."
Siri: "I can't find Believe, hope indoor."
Me: "Play album Believe, Hope, ENDURE (Enunciating as clearly and slowly as I can)"
Siri: "I can find Believe, Hope in Doer"

So I have to give up because the music app is so concluded that I can't easily find it since it is a compilation of artists and it doesn't seem to be in various artists.

I never had these problems before, in fact my wife tells me that she sees Siri initially hearing everything she said perfectly and then changing it to something that makes no sense.

It took years for Siri to understand: "play the Drive soundtrack."

Would it have been too difficult to teach it that it means to play an album? Soundtrack implies an album right? Or am I expecting too much from imbecile Siri?

 

[Terrinb]

Just because you don't have it doesn't mean everyone doesn't. And Apple shouldn't be the laggard when Amazon, Roku, Xiaomi, etc. are all offering 4K.

As for streaming, I am able to stream 4K from Amazon, Neflix, and Vudu just fine. Keep in mind that 4K uses much more efficient HEVC compression.

Everybody offered Blueray when it came out. Not Apple. Apple didn't offer it because licensing and DRM performance issues negatively effected its hardware performance.

Just because everybody is doing it, isn't a reason for Apple to do it.

Product development is often about striking a balance between various needs saying yes to some things and no to others.

 

[laurim]

Cat has to go. /s

Well, I have accidentally touched it, too, so we both have to go!

 

[Uofmtiger]

It makes a great deal of sense to integrate Echo-like features (essentially Always On Siri) to Apple TV, although for this feature to shine, HDMI-CEC needs to work more reliably to wake up connected TV.

This is one of the reasons why Apple should make a TV of its own, or at least a stripped down large monitor that is sold as an accessory to Apple TV, iPhone/iPad, and Macs.

Personally, I wouldn't want the TV to come on every time I used it as a hub. For example, if I said "Siri, turn off lights" as I headed out the door, I wouldn't want my TV to come on.

Right now, there are iOS remote apps that tie into the Echo that can turn on and off the entire system by just telling it the command and which room you are in. However, I wouldn't want it to automatically perform those commands when I simply wanted the lights on or off.

I would rather have a Pod or something similar to the Echo DOT that I can put anywhere that ties into the AppleTV if that helps with processing speed.

As a side note, I turned off all the HDMI-CEC stuff on my receiver because it is more reliable to set up macros and know exactly what is going to happen.

 

[nightcap965]

Don't want, don't need, think it's a dumb idea.

I'm not going to buy a device where I have to walk into another room and say, "Hey Fem-bot, what's the weather?" I'm wearing an Apple Watch and there's an iPhone in my pocket - I have that capability right now, anywhere I am. Besides, when I walk into another room, I forget what I came in there for.

 

[nuckinfutz]

What I like is people who call other people stupid when they don't know what they are talking about. I use my Amazon Echo from 12 feet away all the time. Works great.

No i'm not talking about the Echo. I have a friend that has a Echo in their kitchen..it works just fine. What i'm saying is the flexibility in placement is key to having a product like this have success. My friend with the Echo has a single old TV in a room that is rarely used. Tying a product into a TV that is designed to interact via your voice is a horrible idea.

Apple is not stupid enough to deliver a lame product like an AI enabled Apple TV.

 

[cmichaelb]

I've recorded one 4K video with my 6s. Maybe someday I'll be able to see it, like in 2 or 3 years when I upgrade to a 4K TV. My current HDTVs are only 2-3 years old. I like to keep my TVs at least 5 or 6 years, if not longer. Most people are years away from having the ability to view 4K.

Exactly. I shot 4K at the World Series last year and even down scaled it looks good. I keep my tv's for a LONG time so when I had to replace one, I did upgrade to a Samsung 4K UN55JS9000 last year. Love it. Upscaling looks great.

 

[laurim]

Genuine question: exactly what would everyone love Siri to do on Apple TV as a real Echo competitor? What's your top three use cases?

Operate all my HomeKit devices by voice. That includes lights, projector/screen, garage door and my Ecobee thermostat. I would also like to check on my IP cameras via my TV so I can see if my cats are still in the back yard or who is at the door. Ordering the occasional pizza would be nice, too.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Genuine question: exactly what would everyone love Siri to do on Apple TV as a real Echo competitor? What's your top three use cases?

Controlling my Homekit devices (Hue, Ecobee and soon more items)
Playing music on demand
General information (my schedule, weather, sporting event times)
Queueing up Apple TV content ("play Deadpool at 7pm")


I can can do this on my iPhone but a solid AI product should make it even easier.

 

[Schwyz]

Whoop, glad I didn't jump on this year's model. aTV3 has been good enough.

 

[nutmac]

Yes, but it is still compressed. Right now 4K is really marketing and future proofing. Comcast still is only broadcasting 1080i, and the 4K you are getting is for how many shows and movies?

I understand that some people want it and I wouldn't think of trying to deny it to you. But, for the majority of people, the marginal difference in Full HD and Compressed 4K is trivial, especially given the amount of content that is 4K through the entire production process.

All consumer HD and 4K contents, including broadcast, cable, satellite, streaming, DVD, and Blu-ray, are compressed. It's the degree of compression that varies depending on the medium and contents, but they are all heavily compressed. Uncompressed video varies from 1-4 Gbps for 4K and 600 Mbps-1.2 Gbps for 1080p. Blu-Ray 4K is probably the least compressed consumer format, but you are still looking at maximum bitrate of 128 Mbps at the most (most are about half).

Having said that, compression isn't bad. H.265 (HEVC) is about 50% more efficient than H.264 that most of us use today. And H.264 was about 50% more efficient than H.262 (MPEG-2) before it. At sufficient enough bitrate, most of us won't tell the difference between H.265 and uncompressed video.

As for 4K being marketing, I partially agree. Some contents just don't look appreciably better unless you sit much closer and compare. But HDR is starting to accompany more and more 4K contents, which is almost as dramatic as going from 480p to 1080p. And video isn't the only 4K contents. Apple TV UI, apps, and photos all benefit from 4K resolution.

The bottom line is, 4K is the future whether you admit it or not. 4K TVs are way cheaper now than last year. I bet by next year, practically all larger TVs on the market will be 4K minimum.

 

[Carlanga]

Please! Don't forget to support 4K video, for that reason I ended buying the Roku 4.

How much 4K have you watched?

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Putting it into the atv is fine but not the same as the other devices like echo. Where would I put an atv in the kitchen or anywhere else I don't have a tv or in the middle of a room wout cords. They could create a handoff device like an extended function Siri Remotes to leave around the house.

IMO we already have the echo competition = iPhone.
Just make the battery actually last.

 

[bruinsrme]

What I like is people who call other people stupid when they don't know what they are talking about. I use my Amazon Echo from 12 feet away all the time. Works great.

>12ft here. I regularly stand at my dresser with my back to the echo and communicate with Alexa in a normal level voice. I measured it and it was 16.5 feet. I have been sitting in the living room which is over 20 feet away and I have been able to communicate with alexa.

The echo has come a long way from day one. Every week more and more function is added.

Alexa order this...... done

Isn't Alexa coming to Fire TV soon?

 

[orbital~debris]

When the crap are they gonna add a FaceTime camera, maybe a Bluetooth camera for the top of the tv?

This.
Someone needs to develop in-home 'telepresence' style comms systems. It should be Apple, building on FaceTime.

Skype have recently pulled out of this, I believe, going as far as totally disabling support for Skype on smart TVs withdrawing the app. IIRC they cited the reason that their research showed people preferred to video-chat on handheld devices while using the TV for other things at the same time.

But, there's not a great solution currently for families who want a group of people in the picture at once, when video-chatting with other family members elsewhere.

 

[bruinsrme]

How much 4K have you watched?

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Putting it into the atv is fine but not the same as the other devices like echo. Where would I put an atv in the kitchen or anywhere else I don't have a tv or in the middle of a room wout cords. They could create a handoff device like an extended function Siri Remotes to leave around the house.

IMO we already have the echo competition = iPhone.
Just make the battery actually last.

Over the last two years:
I have watch hundreds of hours various 4k video from travel and adventure sites. so god awful wihile others are pretty darn good.
Stuff my friends and I have recorded on iphones and go pros.
A lot of movies.

I don't watch a lot of TV but there are a few outlets that just have some breath taking video content.