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It doesn't matter which platform your on. Those days are long gone. A myth from the past.

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Take it personally if it makes you uneasy. But denial is no easy out.

How to win an argument 101:

Use the religious zealot angle: put over a point of view that cannot be proven and exists in your mind. Troll anyone who disagrees calling them ignorant heathens.

Argument won.

Downside: you come off looking like a looney. But stick to your guns kid, get enough other loonies on your side and call it a religion.
 
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You are correct that Google does not give away your personal information. They SELL it. That is how they make their money and that is why I try to have as little to do with them as possible.
-Now if Apple would just come out with their own search system...

Bing works just fine, and at this point in time I'd be tempted to trust Microsoft more than Google. That wasn't the case five years ago.
 
I applaud Apple for not being a privacy breacher. When they will become, I will go back to Android.
 
I wouldn't bring stock performance into the argument if you favor Apple:

2014 Year-to-date: Google +8.2%, Apple -2.3%
Since Sept, 2012: Google +70%, Apple -20%

The stock comparison is valid, but not entirely accurate. Apple pays a significant dividend whereas Google does not. Google's stock is also overvalued in a rational world and Apples undervalued.
 
a pleasant or amenable approach to share.....No technology, no earnings and no too prone to share information....So, I think the masterminds in Cupertino have not given deep tought to this iAd connundrum or the solutions in hand dont please them. But when they realize the amount of money they are losing, maybe they come with a nice solution....As final tought, I think situations like this show to the fanboys that Apple is a no so perfect company.....:D

Wow. Didn't think anyone could misunderstand this article so badly. Apple makes about 600 times as much revenue from all its hardware, software and services sales than it makes from advertisements. The amount of money they are losing... is hundred times made up by the money they are making elsewhere, which would be affected negatively by trying to get more ad income.
 
Good for apple. Despite some things they do being irritating I applaud their decision to keep our info mostly safe. Unlike google and that Zuckerboy kid who got rich selling YOUR information. Really nice. Shouldn't even be legal. All so people can post pictures of their ugly kids or stupid dogs that no one cares about.

Hilarious.
 
this article (rather than the macrumors post) seems to be about control (which is a hallmark of apple) rather than protecting information.

as for protecting and respecting my info. why do i get an email from apple after i buy an ipad about possible accessories to buy? why can i see a list of the top apps in my area?

the comparison with google or facebook is quite laughable since neither of them are primarily selling hardware or software to users whereas apple and amazon (just as big a part of the article as apple) are. if these four companies had reversed roles would they act the same way?
 
I don't have a problem with advertising per se, nor with Google's business strategy. Its actually very innovative and has brought great benefit to many, including myself when I was in college (gmail was the best!)

However, Google embodies the worst in advertising these days. Same with Facebook. I know all companies collect my info (credit cards companies were the first). But not all sell it, nor produce visual pollution.

My current email provider is less than 4 dollars a month. It works the same as gmail for my needs. In fact better because I can use a custom domain. If used gmail, what would I get for saving a few dollars? Lets see....

I am no longer the customer. I get visual clutter on my email interface. There is no help line. My email is archived forever and I can not be sure it will be deleted from the server if I want it to. And I support a system where people are no longer customers, but products.

And thats really my biggest beef. Its ok to do what Google does on a small scale. But so many things have become ad supported now, and everything is so integrated, it is just ridiculous and abused for money. These companies no longer exist to serve customers, they exist to serve ads. I don't like that. Others may rejoice at saving...um...100 dollars a year? To get free email and online storage or texting or whatever. I don't. Not when my company doesn't care if I have problems, has no customer service line, and invades my privacy. (Please note I don't think 100 dollars is a trivial amount...but its trivial considering how important those services are. I don't think 10 dollars a month to ensure you have digital presence is too much to ask. Its the cost of 2 burritos.)

How do ads invade my privacy? On my screen. On my phone. In my email. In search results. They pop up and click through. Telling me about things I don't want or need to buy. Trying to get me to clutter up my home, spend my money, etc etc. Its very annoying. And one of the things I don't like is annoyance. Its all a matter of degree I suppose.

I didn't mind gmail. I didn't mind a few second ad every few youtube videos. I didn't mind a click through or pop up now and then.

But these days thats all the internet is. Ads on Facebook, in the news feeds, on my photos. Notifications. Instagram inserts ads. Youtube video ads every few minutes. Click throughs. Enter your information to do anything. Google plus. And so on. I am just sick of people wanting customers info, using customer info, and basically using customers instead of serving customers. And thats all kids are going to grow up knowing. Instead of having a relationship with a company they trust, they are just data points that can be drilled down to be sold to some group so they can sell some mundane product.

So no, there has been no "harm" to me, and I have nothing to hide. I just have a moral disagreement with where business models are heading. They serve themselves now, not customers. Once, many companies would never sell you out or bother you beyond a catalog. Not these days.

And how is Apple different? I know they have my info and I know they will send me direct advertising. Everyone does. But there are no ads in iTunes. No ads in Mail. No ads in iCloud. Apple rarely asks me to join any of their things; I was asked once to join Ping and thats it. Once to join iTunes match. I get an email once every 2 months from them, I unsubscribed and I don't get them anymore. Thats appropriate and fair. Its amazingly peaceful and logical.

It also shows a measure of respect I think, to have a relationship with the end user and assume they are smart enough to know what they want. Maybe its just me, but I almost feel disrespected when I use something where they want "nothing from me" or its "free"..but in reality, they want my name, address, location, browsing habits and then will show me things they think I need. Oh, and google plus will relentlessly ask me to join. I pretty much stopped watching anything on youtube, I just use vimeo. If I see a youtube ad, I just close the window. I am not going to waste my time with commercials so I can see a surfing cat or a movie trailer.

Check this out as the future of messaging is appearing in Asia. It just looks so...annoying.

Wouldn't it feel better to pay 50 bucks a year for ad-free, track free, private (real private, no bosses checking you out) Facebook? I think it would have. And I think Facebook would have felt better too and been more important longer. It losts is lustre to its target market when it lost its privacy.
 
And thats really my biggest beef. Its ok to do what Google does on a small scale. But so many things have become ad supported now, and everything is so integrated, it is just ridiculous and abused for money. These companies no longer exist to serve customers, they exist to serve ads. I don't like that. Others may rejoice at saving...um...100 dollars a year? To get free email and online storage or texting or whatever. I don't. Not when my company doesn't care if I have problems, has no customer service line, and invades my privacy. (Please note I don't think 100 dollars is a trivial amount...but its trivial considering how important those services are. I don't think 10 dollars a month to ensure you have digital presence is too much to ask. Its the cost of 2 burritos.)

100% agree with you but we as consumers are not saving anything as the products we are buying get their new advertisement cost entered into the sales price because obviously we are too stupid to know what we want.

And how is Apple different? I know they have my info and I know they will send me direct advertising. Everyone does. But there are no ads in iTunes. No ads in Mail. No ads in iCloud. Apple rarely asks me to join any of their things; I was asked once to join Ping and thats it. Once to join iTunes match. I get an email once every 2 months from them, I unsubscribed and I don't get them anymore. Thats appropriate and fair. Its amazingly peaceful and logical.

each one has their plan. personally the ads in gmail do not bother me and i dont find them invading. but apple squeezes money out of you in different ways with their forced upgrades. trying to make one billion dollar company into saints and the other into the devil where it concerns us customers is pure nonsense and they are laughing all the way to the bank.
 
You are correct that Google does not give away your personal information. They SELL it.

No, Google does not sell personal information. Just like Apple, they sell anonymous ad space.

Seriously, this is not a hard concept to understand. Or maybe it is, considering how many people repeat this nonsense.

No, I don't care if random strangers know what I am currently doing in public. But I don't want someone following me around in public and private, making notes of everything that I do, and then using that information to make money.

That's exactly what Apple does with iAds. They use everything they know about us to make money. Heck, they sell iAds by touting how much they know about us:

iads_blurb.png

The ad firms say this thinking they are down talking Apple - yet for many of us, this is like a shining review. This is exactly why I prefer Apple services. THANK YOU APPLE

Like many others here, you have totally misunderstood the situation. Not your fault. The thread title is a bit misleading in its simplicity.

This is not about sharing PERSONAL USER INFO. It's about sharing what KINDS of people clicked on the ad.

E.g. you ask Apple to target single males 19-24 who like games. What you want to know, as an advertiser, is what kind of people actually clicked on your ads, and what other interests they had.

In other words, it would be very handy to know that everyone who clicked on the ad mostly used one game, or were all under 20, because then you could target just that group.

The net effect of not knowing this info, is less advertising, which can lead to fewer or more expensive apps.

Admittedly frustrating for advertisers, but most users consider that a good thing.

Why would most users care if advertisers knew who clicked on their ads?

The real irony is that when an article comes out about how "iOS dominates the internet" and the source is the number of views an ad network gets, many users gush with pride. :rolleyes:
 
The real irony is that when an article comes out about how "iOS dominates the internet" and the source is the number of views an ad network gets, many users gush with pride. :rolleyes:

Further irony are the people who complain about ads they don't care about vs ones that they actually MIGHT care about because it's relative to who they are and what they might be looking for.

I don't care to give up actual privacy - but if there are going to be ads - I'd rather the ads be based on what I might be interested in.
 
Mischaracterize?

Yep. And you continue below.

Literally 95% of this thread discussion is people saying how bad Google is because they don't want their data passed on to advertisers.

Well, that's obviously not true.

All I'm pointing out is that nothing negative has come of Google having a profile on me.

:D Anecdotes are fun.

In fact, if Google's data mining was so detrimental, why don't we hear about it more?

We here about the dangers of data mining quite a bit. Perhaps you could do a little research into the some of the abuses brought to light by Eric Snowden.

If Google is so evil, why are they doing so well? Why do millions upon millions of people use their web services if they're just in to make money off people and nothing else.

Because the provide a number of great services that many people like to use. And they do a fantastic job of protecting the individualized data that they do collect.

This thread proves that people will dream up any tinfoil hat theory as to why Google is evil and Apple is their saviour.

Or, some people are more concerned about their privacy and the dangers of data mining than you are.

Fact of the matter is that Apple has the exact same information on you that Google does, and if you don't think they use it to their advantage for marketing purposes, then you're delusional.

That's just crap. Apple has far less information on a typical user that Google has on a typical Google user.

That's exactly what Apple does with iAds. They use everything they know about us to make money. Heck, they sell iAds by touting how much they know about us:

We've had this discussion multiple times. As always, it's a difference in magnitude. Simplistically, Apple tracks me in their store, while Google tracks me all over the place.

Obviously, there is a tradeoff in advertising in exchange for free products and services. But you don't have to rig the argument by pretending that giving up some information is the same as giving up more information.
 
We've had this discussion multiple times. As always, it's a difference in magnitude. Simplistically, Apple tracks me in their store, while Google tracks me all over the place.

Obviously, there is a tradeoff in advertising in exchange for free products and services. But you don't have to rig the argument by pretending that giving up some information is the same as giving up more information.

But that's because Apple doesn't have a search engine (for example). Don't you think if they did, they would be collecting that info too?

I don't think he was rigging the conversation. If you look at the privacy statements of both companies - they are almost identical. We have had the conversation before. All of us. Some like to believe (not saying you) that since Apple's iAds aren't as "popular" as Google's adwords (for example) that it makes Google "evil" because they collect so much information. When, in truth, Apple's iAds, if they were as ubiquitous, would be collecting just as much info.

Ultimately I think some people don't even know what they are arguing. They just argue for or against Apple/Google because that's what they do.
 
We've had this discussion multiple times. As always, it's a difference in magnitude. Simplistically, Apple tracks me in their store, while Google tracks me all over the place.

Exactly, it's getting to a point where it's practically impossible to use the web without sending data to Google because besides their user facing services, search, mail, YouTube and so on, almost every webpage in existence either embed analytics, API's, hotlink fonts or JQuery or their G+ like buttons. Edit: Also, remember the length they went to enable tracking cockies accross domains even though Safari prevents it by default?

Obvioiusly it's not just Google doing this, but they are nearly omnipresent, thus having the most complete picture.



But that's because Apple doesn't have a search engine (for example). Don't you think if they did, they would be collecting that info too?

This is completely hypothetical.
 
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This post reminded me to install AdBlocker on my jailbroken iPhone 5. Thanks for the reminder advertisers!
 
I also think I posed my comment as a question. I do think there's a difference. Perhaps you don't.

You don't know what you posted? It's a hypothetical question, what kind of answer do you expect? First you dream up a fictional reality, then ask us to answer your what if question, it's pointless.
 
You don't know what you posted? It's a hypothetical question, what kind of answer do you expect? First you dream up a fictional reality, then ask us to answer your what if question, it's pointless.

LOL - perhaps you're also confusing the fact it was pretty rhetorical. But enough nonsense. Let's not go further off topic.
 
But that's because Apple doesn't have a search engine (for example). Don't you think if they did, they would be collecting that info too?

:confused: And in that alternate reality, I would not have the same argument.

I don't think he was rigging the conversation. If you look at the privacy statements of both companies - they are almost identical. We have had the conversation before. All of us. Some like to believe (not saying you) that since Apple's iAds aren't as "popular" as Google's adwords (for example) that it makes Google "evil" because they collect so much information. When, in truth, Apple's iAds, if they were as ubiquitous, would be collecting just as much info.

Again, you are talking about what ifs, and I am talking about the current reality. The fact that Google collects some information on me in exchange for free services isn't a concern for me. Google has a great track record for doing their best to maintain the security of individualized data.

The concern for me is the vast amount of data that they aggregate about an individual. If Apple started a search engine or had access to collect that much data about me, I would do my best to limit the amount of data that they had access to by using a variety of services that don't talk to each other.

I'm not worried about current Google. I'm worried about the potential for abuse that putting that much data together can lead to by individuals or by other groups. Especially in light of the NSA reveleations. And the slippery slope as the "creepy line" that Eric Schmidt talked about gets pushed further and further.
 
? That is kinda off...google stock is over $1200

I don't want to get into the share price debate here as it is so much more complicated than the price or even the market cap, but you do understand that the actual $ value of a share is in no way a useful metric? The other part of that particular equation are the number of shares. Multiply one by the other and you get market cap. In that case Apple is much larger, but google are catching up at a pace. The question on google is wether we will see its P/E ratio come down.
 
I'm not worried about current Google. I'm worried about the potential for abuse that putting that much data together can lead to by individuals or by other groups. Especially in light of the NSA reveleations. And the slippery slope as the "creepy line" that Eric Schmidt talked about gets pushed further and further.

Completely legitimate.

I still maintain that there are those here that simply argue for/against Apple or Google without understanding the actual issue. Or the details. You have to wonder why the debate of "Google sells your personal data" still rages on when in thread after thread it's been explained that they do not.
 
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Good! So happy to read this article.

Apple should be like the Swiss bank of computing. Keeping our info safe :) way to go apple!!!
 
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