When I checked the sign up site it said Closed to all sign ups in all locations. This told me that all the sign up slots are all sold out.
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Apple's Vision Pro Developer Labs Not Drawing Many Attendees
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Yep, there are use-cases in so many professional fields. I call out the Yoga line item you listed, because there is clearly a huge demand for that kind of content if YouTube is any indication. There are instructors with insane numbers of views for Yoga, Weight Lifting, Calisthenics, and similar where this could be extremely valuable to students.
There's a reason the first Vision product has the "Pro" suffix ... because the first iteration is the high-end version given the immense complexity. The non-Pro version will be released later as the technology and manufacturing mature translating to lower cost.
Developers would be foolish to let the $3500 price be a reason not to develop for this new platform.
Now, Tim, please tell us why we don't have a proper Mac Pro.
Funny, my team just opened up a new role to do prototyping for VisionOS and the interesting bits of iPadOS that we haven’t had time to touch over the last 5 years. Example: RoomKit.
And no one on our team realized until last Friday that these on-site labs for Vision Pro existed. Within five minutes of reading the details, we were like “sweet, once we have a plan let’s apply before these testing labs timeslots are hard to get.”
Edit: seriously experimenting with the chatGPT APIs is getting 99% of the “disposable attention” from all of the dev teams I know at other companies. Building something that uses that is fast. The skillset for using something like Reality Composer + Swift has almost zero overlap with the web development skills to use the OpenAI APIs, but from an overall engineering team time-budgeting perspective, it’s fair to say that the lion’s share of attention on new hotness is on ChatGPT.
And no one on our team realized until last Friday that these on-site labs for Vision Pro existed. Within five minutes of reading the details, we were like “sweet, once we have a plan let’s apply before these testing labs timeslots are hard to get.”
Edit: seriously experimenting with the chatGPT APIs is getting 99% of the “disposable attention” from all of the dev teams I know at other companies. Building something that uses that is fast. The skillset for using something like Reality Composer + Swift has almost zero overlap with the web development skills to use the OpenAI APIs, but from an overall engineering team time-budgeting perspective, it’s fair to say that the lion’s share of attention on new hotness is on ChatGPT.
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When the iPhone first came out people were quite enraged over the price and the lack of keyboard, little state dot light, so on and so forth too.
Same the iPod, you could get a sony, compaq, creative labs, even brand less mp3 players at a tin fraction of the iPod’s price.
Yes, Vision Pro might won’t get a anywhere near iPhone’s mass adoption but so didn’t the Apple Watch and many of the examples mentioned by commenter.
He is just saying that we have been proven wrong way more often than not, so just let’s wait to see what happens instead.
This is a fantastic idea, why not have a tethered version that uses the potentially more powerful M2 (Pro, Max, Ultra) of our own mac…
While I see the benefit of fully independent devices (i.e I would hate having to have the iPad tethered as I do use it as a parallel device too), in the case of VR it totally makes sense as it takes all the focus and it’s unlikely to be using anything else at the same time while wearing the VR set.
Plus if it helps bring down that price barrier even more so.
Wholeheartedly agreed… after being proven wrong so many times over and over again, the least we can do is just wait and see what happens.
why would devs be interested when there are zero owners with a potential revenue of $0? Apple needs to give people a reason first to care and create a market. They need to have a couple killer apps of their own and not hope that the market will for some reason face huge risk for no reward.
App development for this will require a lot of work, to sell against a niche audience and pay the egregious 30% Apple tax?
Apple need to reduce their commission charge to 10% for app development to make any sense for this thing.
Apple need to reduce their commission charge to 10% for app development to make any sense for this thing.
The cost of visiting the Bay Area is astronomical. Flights, hotel costs, food and transportation while there to try out a device that is only going to be for the rich. Apple has also alienated small developers so I can see the reason why it’s empty.
Are the labs elsewhere not being used as well? I'm curious about the lab in Singapore since it's a somewhat rich city, mass transit goes (almost) everywhere, and there should be a high demand for Vision Pro.
He's saying imagine an industry, and then imagine what you could do with full immersion. He was only giving examples.
Name an industry, and I'd likely be able to come up with compelling use cases for that industry.
Mathematics: Mathematicians who are really good are always saying that math at that level is an art form. Imaging a fully immersive calculator/spreadsheet/blackboard where numbers and equations float around you and are a moveable to any location.
Yoga: Imagine a yoga instructor who could model correct posture for a student in 3D. The student could circle the instructor seeing proper form.
City Tours: Imagine fully immersive tours of destinations where you can walk through the streets of Paris, Venice, Hong Kong, etc, and pre-plan your trip.
Chef: Imagine a fully immersive cookbook where the chef can show you how to prepare specialty foods in photo-realistic, 3D form. Like Sushi; they could show you the rolls in live form.
Pilots: duh
Philosophy: photo-realistic replicas of Plato, Socrates, using AI tech to mimic their styles, as they teach you philosophy walking the streets of Athens.
Sports: A hitting coach in baseball can model the correct stance and swing. Same in Golf. Or you can walk onto the field of a current game and walk around the current batter to see their stance in real-time in a live game.
Musician: Play your music on the most famous stages in the world, or at the most famous concerts in history. Play Woodstock. Or LiveAid.
Biology: Enter the body
Astrophysics: Duh
Theater: Don't just sit in the audience; wander the sets of Le Miserables while the actors are acting.
Doctors: duh
Interior Design: duh
Architecture: duh
Engineers: duh
Airbnb hosts: duh
Real Estate: duh
Criminal Justice: take immersive 3D video of crime scenes that investigators can walk into anytime they like.
Religion: fully immersive version of all of Christ's or Buddha's sermons in person, on location.
[[My idea: Not going to say, as I think it's a hit and I'm going to look into having it developed.]]
...but hey, Apple didn't focus on Gamers or Porn, so DOA
Stop it! Flexing your imagination like that is frowned upon here and will earn you absolutely NO forum cred.
Proclaim it a flop and call it a day. Easy.
The way I see it most AR/VR just makes for cool demos and has very little value beyond that except for gaming.
No one wants to wear a headset, people don't event want to wear eye glasses to the point that some people will shoot lasers into their eyes to correct their vision.
I saw nothing on the vision pro reveal that I can't already do without spending $3500.
I also think a lot of the larger developers, you know the ones lobbying against the App Store in governments around the world. Those developers are in no rush to come and help launch a new walled garden for Apple. Apple will need to court large developers over and make deals with them while hoping the indie devs came come up with some interesting apps that give this thing a reason to be.
No one wants to wear a headset, people don't event want to wear eye glasses to the point that some people will shoot lasers into their eyes to correct their vision.
I saw nothing on the vision pro reveal that I can't already do without spending $3500.
I also think a lot of the larger developers, you know the ones lobbying against the App Store in governments around the world. Those developers are in no rush to come and help launch a new walled garden for Apple. Apple will need to court large developers over and make deals with them while hoping the indie devs came come up with some interesting apps that give this thing a reason to be.
Errr not really. From Apple's website for the sign ups.
" What to expect
In these self-directed coding and design labs, you’ll be able to test and optimize your apps on visionOS. Bring your Mac, code, and everything you need to modify, build, run, and test your app on Apple Vision Pro. Apple experts will be available to help you with setup and troubleshooting.
"
Meet with Apple - Apple Developer
Join us around the world for a variety of sessions, labs, and workshops — tailored for you.
It is only a one day session. To make effective use of time the developer would need to come in with a handful of pre-selected issues to work through. Work with Apple to diagnose the problem and compose solutions to a couple of those and that's probably most of the 'day' ( which likely is a standard 'working day' .. probably not "pull an all-nighter at Apple labs session". )
Similarly the target audience isn't just Vision only apps. The whole page starts off with.
"...
Apply to attend a one-day developer lab to experience your visionOS, iPadOS, or iOS apps running on Apple Vision Pro. With support from Apple, you’ll be able to test and optimize your apps and games so they’ll be ready for the infinite spatial canvas
..."
Probably 50-70% of the apps in the early days after launch are going to be iPadOS apps that have minor adjustments to run in a 'window pane'. Really not much different than what the App needs to do to run on an iPad. Developer's who have been following Apple's suggestions of how to make a Apple ecosystem , multiplatform app with Swift+SwiftUI and modern app libraries really should have tons of work do here. The simulator will be plenty to get most of the layout tweaks and port 'clean up' work done.
Once Apple starts distributing "development kits" the need for these App-in-a-window-pane to travel to some city is likely not necessary. Between simulator and a on-hand headset , lots of apps with a solid foundation are just going to work. (e.g., more than several years later and iOS Instagram app still looks like an iPhone app on an iPad. That is the effort going to get for lots of apps. Nobody needs a trip to Cupertino to do that. )
Note also Apple really isn't looking for a one-person-show app either. Again from the sign up page:
"...
We recommend one designer and one engineer attend the lab. Each member will need to submit a request separately for the same day and location.
..."
A large chunk of the iPhone apps that mainly just fill up 'bulk space' in the AppStore really are probably not the focus here. Apps that depend upon 'ad views' (and 'race to the bottom' direct pricing) from a high number of users to generate revenue, probably not those either.
That probably is the biggest factor in why there is low attendance for the last month or so. A super optimized app to gather no sales for maybe more than 6 months. Who is 'chomping at the bit' to do that? If the 'gold rush' , 'Oklahoma stampede' contest isn't even going to start for 3-4 months , then most folks are probably working on getting version n+1 out the door on their iPadOS/macOS/iOS app first. ( new features for the Fall OS releases).
A limited, but substantial number of developers who do want to start early to do something relatively specific for VisionOS are going to want more than just one working day session with the device. The developer kit is a far higher priority because it would directly help with development tasks that were going to take 2-6 days to do (or more).
Sorry, but this looks a lot like Gurman making a mountain out of a mole hill here. When Apple has rock solid ship dates for when the apps have to be staged in the AppStore for general population release, the whole situation will probably turn 180 degrees about 1-2 months before that deadline. Complaints can't get a session to work out a critical bug they found and there is not enough.
Not much demand when there are pragmatically no dev-kits out there should not have been surprising to Apple at all. For the first month or two Apple would be better served by getting in folks who have frameworks and tools that general developers use to compose apps. (e.g., a decent set of the game dev crowd just build an app on top of someone else's framework. They are going to wait until that framework/libraries/etc is not 'alpha' quality until they do anything. ) . The number of 'lower level tool' folks are way smaller than the general dev community (which is in turn is way smaller than end users ).
No, the sci-fi “holy grail” is an implant that interfaces directly with your brain. This is just a clunky step forward towards that ultimate goal. The problem is not everyone is comfortable with the eventual goal of becoming a transhuman computer. For obvious reasons.
11 hilarious naysayers who criticized the first iPhone 10 years ago...
Sounds familiar?
- “Five hundred dollars, fully subsidized, with a plan?! I said, ‘That is the most expensive phone in the world! And it doesn’t appeal to business customers because it doesn’t have a keyboard!’” — Steve Ballmer, former Microsoft CEO
- “iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks.” — Matthew Lynn, Bloomberg
- “The iPhone will not substantially alter the fundamental structure and challenges of the mobile industry.” He said the iPhone was “late to the party” and predicted rivals like Nokia would “attack” the iPhone by offering deals to carriers. — Analyst Charles Golvin, Forrester
- “If it’s smart [Apple] will call the iPhone a ‘reference design’ and pass it to some suckers to build with someone else’s marketing budget. Then it can wash its hands of any marketplace failures… Otherwise I’d advise people to cover their eyes. You are not going to like what you’ll see.” —John C. Dvorak, tech columnist
- “There is a low demand for converged, all-in-one devices. Only 31% of Americans surveyed said they wanted a device with multiple capabilities, and that dropped to 27% in Japan, according to research by Universal McCann.” —The Guardian
- “Is there a toaster that also knows how to brew coffee? There is no such combined device, because it would not make anything better than an individual toaster or coffee machine. It works the same way with the iPod, the digital camera or mobile phone: it is important to have specialized devices.” —Jon Rubinstein, former iPod engineer
- “No stylus is provided.” —Edward Baig, USA Today
- “There’s no memory-card slot, no chat program, no voice dialing. You can’t install new programs from anyone but Apple…The browser can’t handle Java or Flash, which deprives you of millions of Web videos.” —David Pogue, The New York Times
- “[The handset] can get warm with constant use, and you’ll need to wipe off smudges frequently with the included cloth. We’re still iffy about the software keyboard and predictive text entry: They work reasonably well, but overall text entry is still easier with a hardware keyboard, and the iPhone may not be the best choice for people who need to compose a lot of e-mail.” —PC World
- “Aside from Web speed issues, the iPhone has two serious flaws. First, it’s awkward to handle. At 4 1/2 by 2 3/8 inches, it’s half an inch wider than my regular cell phone — too wide to hold comfortably. And the iPhone is slippery — too easy to drop.” —Mike Himowitz, The Baltimore Sun
- “Although the phone contains a complete iPod, you can’t use your songs as ringtones. There aren’t any games…” —Walter Mossberg, The Wall Street Journal
Sounds familiar?
Developers can choose to get the kit, no need to go to those centers, right?
If that's true - and if I were a developer - it's easy to see that there is no real need to travel that much just to get extra assistance. Also, I'm pretty sure you can ask for it online.
If that's true - and if I were a developer - it's easy to see that there is no real need to travel that much just to get extra assistance. Also, I'm pretty sure you can ask for it online.
What if you are a radiologist, looking at 3D MRI data. Today we have to flatten the data out to a 2D display and look at slices. What if the doctor could hold a virtual tissue sample in his or her hands and open it up or point with a finger to make parts of it transparent? A well-designed user interface might work well.
What about mechanical engineers? I use 3D CAD to design parts. Assembling the parts into a subassembly takes time using a mouse and a 2D display. What if I could simply use my hands to build up a subassembly?
Same thing for an animator who is building a digital set for a movie or a video game? He could push a (say) tree with his hand and stretch out a few branches if he wants them longer.
An auto mechanic wants to reassemble an automatic transmission that he is not familiar with. He could have the virtual parks superimposed over the real parts and he just puts the real parts where the virtual parts are.
Most of the bet uses for AR and VR are industrial, where there are big budgets. But you are right, this device is too expensive for consumers
Of course, you could look at it as an opportunity to put yourself out there, front and centre in a potentially sparse marketplace. If you have the skills to make a compelling application you could be up there on the stage with Tim Cook to show off your app. Of course if you can only churn out a visual fart app then maybe not.
Even with those examples you can't ignore the 800lb gorilla in the room, which is $3500 for a single person usage device. A phone you can at least put on speaker. A lot of consumer look at what they used can be shared, this is walking away from that aspect of how you share the benefits/cost for a family.11 hilarious naysayers who criticized the first iPhone 10 years ago...
- “There’s no memory-card slot, no chat program, no voice dialing. You can’t install new programs from anyone but Apple…The browser can’t handle Java or Flash, which deprives you of millions of Web videos.” —David Pogue, The New York Times
- “[The handset] can get warm with constant use, and you’ll need to wipe off smudges frequently with the included cloth. We’re still iffy about the software keyboard and predictive text entry: They work reasonably well, but overall text entry is still easier with a hardware keyboard, and the iPhone may not be the best choice for people who need to compose a lot of e-mail.” —PC World
- “Aside from Web speed issues, the iPhone has two serious flaws. First, it’s awkward to handle. At 4 1/2 by 2 3/8 inches, it’s half an inch wider than my regular cell phone — too wide to hold comfortably. And the iPhone is slippery — too easy to drop.” —Mike Himowitz, The Baltimore Sun
- “Although the phone contains a complete iPod, you can’t use your songs as ringtones. There aren’t any games…” —Walter Mossberg, The Wall Street Journal
Sounds familiar?
There is no denying Apple pioneering here with the Vision Pro, its just its a hard sell except to individuals.
Here's an interesting July 31st article related to this topic, pretty strict compliance still being observed.
Apple’s top secret instructions to Vision Pro developers is next level
The $3,499 headset is due to hit the market next year—and Apple is determined to quash any leaks.fortune.com
Developers are being offered the chance to try out the tech before it hits the consumer market in order to build new features for customers—but it’s an offer that comes with serious strings attached.
The legally binding terms and conditions signed by developers—or on behalf of a team of developers—dictate the Vision Pro can only be used in a fully enclosed and locked room.
The document does not directly state that windows must be covered but says developers are responsible for ensuring unauthorized individuals cannot “access, view, handle, or use” the headset. It adds that unauthorized individuals include a developer’s family, friends, housemates, and household employees.
If the password-protected headset is being used, the Vision Pro must also be in “positive control” of the developer—meaning it’s either being used by developers themselves or in their direct line of sight.
When it’s not in use, the headset needs to be stored in its locked Pelican case—a waterproof, dustproof, and crushproof case that is delivered alongside the Vision Pro—and then placed in a locked space, like a room, closet, or drawer, that only the developer has access to.
======
What if developers want to take the headset from their home to the office, or vice versa?
No can do, as the terms and conditions note the headset “may not be moved from or taken away from its ship-to address by you or your authorized developers without Apple’s prior written consent.”
This is a lesson that Apple had to learn the hard way after tech website Gizmodo famously got its hands on an iPhone 4 disguised as a 3GS after it was left in a bar in 2010.
On top of that, developers also need to tell the iPhone maker if they’re going to be away from the headset for more than 10 days and must “consult with [their] Apple point of contact about how to keep the developer kit (DK) safe while [they] are away.”
These measures are underlined with a strict policy on reporting to Apple if the set—be it parts or in its entirety—are stolen or broken, with the brand saying the headset must be returned in good working condition.
======
The Vision Pro marks Apple’s biggest release in almost a decade and was welcomed with expected fanfare on social media.
But consumers can’t expect to get much more insight on platforms like Twitter once the product is in the hands of developers, as they’ve explicitly been told to keep their opinions to themselves.
Be it paranoia or sound business sense, Apple isn’t taking any risks when it comes to the publication of unapproved content, writing developers are banned from “discussing, publicly writing about, or reviewing the DK, whether online, in print, in person, or on social media.
“You may not post, or permit your authorized developers to post, any photos, videos, or reactions to or about the DK.”
I work in AAA game dev and we have similar policy when getting new hardware. Usually we need to lock them into a cabinet with only cables going in/out via a whole cut into it and another one for a cooling fan if necessary. For a device like this I guess there is an emulator in XCode but other than that they will have to put it on their head and there is no hiding that unless in a separate room without windows. In my experience no one really cares that much and leaked photos and videos are inevitable.
Whilst of course it would never in a million years happen.
Just imagine the interest if Apple's keynote showing off their new headset focussed 100% on Games and Porn.
What a fun world that would be like to live in