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Perhaps it's normal, I'm not sure, but in a way it kinda feels like Apple needs to do more work towards really doing whatever it takes to get developers to develop.

I will say, as a fact. Apple right now at this moment in time has a product that will 100% flop.
Apple NEEDS developers to make it a great product than they hope millions will want to buy/own/wear/use.

This whole device, like any computing platform 100% relies on the software to make it successful and customers to want to buy it.
Without Devs very hard work and Devs own money put towards this product, then in reality it's dead.

Personally I feel Apple should get off it's pedestal of almost thinking Dev's should consider themselves lucky to be able to develop for it, and start thinking that their new product it utterly depended on 3rd party devs, and Apple should be doing everything possible to encourage and help them (with money if needed) make this product successful.

If you invent a car, you better do all your possibly can to get others to build lots of roads for your car to drive on, and without nice roads, no-one's going to buy your car.
 
The design team was not behind the release of this product as it is not ready for primetime! Apple marketing pushed out some fake news that all
VPs were suddenly behind the product and never saw this "amazing" AR/VR experience.

Err. not really according to the rumors. That is more a 'telephone game' accounting of the situaution.


" ... The company's industrial design team cautioned that devices in the category were not yet ready for launch and wanted to delay until a lightweight AR glasses product had matured several years later. ..."

The AR/VR headset not being ready for launch is a goofy statement. That is true of every Apple product 4-6 months before the launch date. What really got overridden here is trying to extremely tightly couple the release of the AR/VR headset to the AR only 'glasses' project.

Those are designers looking for an excuse not to ship. There is no way to substantively different products should hobble on the launch of another when there is no inherent coupling between the necessary for use. What was likely really what was going on there is a fear that an actually shipping headset priorities would suck the life out of something that was much further out. Apple would need a more reasonably priced headset and that would squeeze out the 'glasses' project if there was a resource availability (people , money , time , specilized silicon, etc)..

... not surprising because ta-da ..... ( a couple of months earlier this rumor popped up)



There probably are some industrial designers at Apple would would like some 2-3 year in the future Apple silicon chips to allow them to paint the headset into a lightweighter/thinner corner rather than deal with what they have to work with now. Or work an a less elaborate design that doesn't have sky high manufacturing costs overhead. (so could be sold at a more affordable price).

Also once the AR/VR headset outlines some aspects of AR , then it will be even harder for an AR-only glasses to adjust those expectations later. Aspects of the interface are going to get grounded and harder to break free of.


Some folks assert that this is a Tim Cook problem, but Steve Jobs had a saying that "Great artists ship". This is one of those cases. They AR/VR/Glasses stuff has been 'cooking' in the super secret labs for about 6 years now. It is time to ship something. If only to get a feedback loop going from real end users to the dev teams. I think there was lots of debate internally about what users were going to want / not want etc about the problem and that just won't get really solved by hiding , buried in the basement at Apple HQ.

Apple can do a mostly AR ( not primarily focused VR) headset if they want , but it will be a fine line to walk.


And it is a farce that is just the marketing folks that are not eyeball deep into the 'Glasses or bust' mindset of some of the industrial design team.

"... Key figures including software chief Craig Federighi have also kept their distance from the headset during its development and have seemed wary of it. Apple's senior vice president for hardware technologies, Johny Srouji, is believed to privately be a skeptic of the device, comparing it to a science project. He has warned that designing the high-performance chips that the headset requires could distract from new iPhone chips that drive more revenue. ..."

It as later come out that the AR/VR team have their own software teams so not particularly surprising that Craig Federighi is 'hands off' on something he isn't tasked with. However, if Srouji is 'sour' on the endevour then the Glasses/AR/VR project has major problems. Even more so if the industrail design is hyper busy designing the product into 'painted into a corner' problems that the Silicon is suppose to bail them out of.

If Apple can sell 500-600K Vision Pros at yearly run rate .... that is about $2B dollars. That would likely go a long way to settling qualms about whether specialized silicon for the AR space was worth putting money into. It probably won't make Apple's margin targets for their silicon projects but it would be a grounded start.


From what was presented it was nothing special and the news following some aspects were indeed not finished does not do this product good.

As a VR focused headset perhaps there was "nothing special". The folks that are price (and feature ) anchored on the VR stuff that has been tossed onto the market over the last 3-4 years. The Vision Pro isn't going huge unit volume with those folks.

However, as an AR headset. It is significant. But that is for the most part something different for the larger masses. It is expensive , but lots of folks sneared at the XDR display and Apple has sold a decent number of them. ( enough that it was worth the effort to do the product. They are not taking over the monitor market as a 'unit volume' king. ) . One of the problems that Apple has to get over is that there are a vast number of mainstream folks who think VR == AR ( don't really think there is much of a difference. Or have been conditioned to think that AR is 'artificial reality' as opposed to 'augmented reality'. )

The R1 chip is a big deal. ( but the R1 doesn't have direct impact on common developer apps. Those apps don't 'run' there or have low level access to muck around. )
 
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I don’t understand why this needed its own M2 chip/memory/storage and battery. Is the data coming from all those sensors really enough to saturate a thunderbolt link? In reality, an M2 iPad Air/Pro would probably run it just fine… and it would have given people an actual reason to upgrade their iPads in the process…

Most of the bet uses for AR and VR are industrial, where there are big budgets.

Yes, see Microsoft HoloLens. Highly acclaimed and loved for all the the use cases you mentioned. It still failed to make a splash because everyone thought it was great, just no one wanted to pay for it. That’s the unfortunate part of the “iPhone Effect,” everyone assumes it’s going to eventually be an order of magnitude cheaper/better within a year or two, so why invest now…

On top of that, I just think there is a lot competing for attention right now. AI and an uncertain economy has the limelight for the time being.
 
Perhaps it's normal, I'm not sure, but in a way it kinda feels like Apple needs to do more work towards really doing whatever it takes to get developers to develop.

I will say, as a fact. Apple right now at this moment in time has a product that will 100% flop.
Apple NEEDS developers to make it a great product than they hope millions will want to buy/own/wear/use.

Apple doesn't need million to buy this specific Pro model at all any more than they need millions to buy the Mac Pro to make it a viable product.

At a 500K/yr run rate it would generate around $2B in revenue. It not comparing it to the iPhone , at most companies that would be a decent product. For the first year or two lots of folks heaped doom and gloom on the Watch because it wasn't going to be another iPhone revenue level bonanza. If the Vision Pro generates more revenue than it cost sit will be doing better than the majority of mainstream VR headsets that folks try to claim are 'successful' but make no margin at all.

Does Apple has a huge mis-match problem with getting the bulk of their 'race to the bottom price, make it up with ads views sales' apps that form the huge bulk of their AppStore? Yes. Lots of those won't make it over. The product more so needs a decent number of better apps than to play the "million/billion burgers served " game for the first couple of years. This isn't the higher volume product of the line up. And that won't show up for a couple years.
What Apple needs is a base of apps to work off of and that is quite doable.

For the devs that have been following Apple's suggestions for the last 2-4 years of Swift/SwiftUI apps, it isn't that painful to put an app-in-a-pane and it just works. Apple has lower the bar of entry for modern apps that align with their strategic objectives for the last several years. Folks with a good iPad app with a modern foundation don't have a huge gap to cross either.

The feature that allows folks to use it as an external display for a Mac will also help put a floor under the unit sales also that does not require a huge push from developers of Mac apps. Will that set the floor at millions. Nope. But they don't need millions in the intermediate term.
 
I really don't care. I'm usually pretty excited about new Apple products, but not this one. I can appreciate the design, which is absolutely beautiful. But the functionality of it doesn't appeal to me. I can barely stand wearing sunglasses, let alone a big headset.
 
Err. not really according to the rumors. That is more a 'telephone game' accounting of the situaution.


" ... The company's industrial design team cautioned that devices in the category were not yet ready for launch and wanted to delay until a lightweight AR glasses product had matured several years later. ..."

The AR/VR headset not being ready for launch is a goofy statement. That is true of every Apple product 4-6 months before the launch date. What really got overridden here is trying to extremely tightly couple the release of the AR/VR headset to the AR only 'glasses' project.

Those are designers looking for an excuse not to ship. There is no way to substantively different products should hobble on the launch of another when there is no inherent coupling between the necessary for use. What was likely really what was going on there is a fear that an actually shipping headset priorities would suck the life out of something that was much further out. Apple would need a more reasonably priced headset and that would squeeze out the 'glasses' project if there was a resource availability (people , money , time , specilized silicon, etc)..

... not surprising because ta-da ..... ( a couple of months earlier this rumor popped up)



There probably are some industrial designers at Apple would would like some 2-3 year in the future Apple silicon chips to allow them to paint the headset into a lightweighter/thinner corner rather than deal with what they have to work with now. Or work an a less elaborate design that doesn't have sky high manufacturing costs overhead. (so could be sold at a more affordable price).

Also once the AR/VR headset outlines some aspects of AR , then it will be even harder for an AR-only glasses to adjust those expectations later. Aspects of the interface are going to get grounded and harder to break free of.


Some folks assert that this is a Tim Cook problem, but Steve Jobs had a saying that "Great artists ship". This is one of those cases. They AR/VR/Glasses stuff has been 'cooking' in the super secret labs for about 6 years now. It is time to ship something. If only to get a feedback loop going from real end users to the dev teams. I think there was lots of debate internally about what users were going to want / not want etc about the problem and that just won't get really solved by hiding , buried in the basement at Apple HQ.

Apple can do a mostly AR ( not primarily focused VR) headset if they want , but it will be a fine line to walk.


And it is a farce that is just the marketing folks that are not eyeball deep into the 'Glasses or bust' mindset of some of the industrial design team.

"... Key figures including software chief Craig Federighi have also kept their distance from the headset during its development and have seemed wary of it. Apple's senior vice president for hardware technologies, Johny Srouji, is believed to privately be a skeptic of the device, comparing it to a science project. He has warned that designing the high-performance chips that the headset requires could distract from new iPhone chips that drive more revenue. ..."

It as later come out that the AR/VR team have their own software teams so not particularly surprising that Craig Federighi is 'hands off' on something he isn't tasked with. However, if Srouji is 'sour' on the endevour then the Glasses/AR/VR project has major problems. Even more so if the industrail design is hyper busy designing the product into 'painted into a corner' problems that the Silicon is suppose to bail them out of.

If Apple can sell 500-600K Vision Pros at yearly run rate .... that is about $2B dollars. That would likely go a long way to settling qualms about whether specialized silicon for the AR space was worth putting money into. It probably won't make Apple's margin targets for their silicon projects but it would be a grounded start.




As a VR focused headset perhaps there was "nothing special". The folks that are price (and feature ) anchored on the VR stuff that has been tossed onto the market over the last 3-4 years. The Vision Pro isn't going huge unit volume with those folks.

However, as an AR headset. It is significant. But that is for the most part something different for the larger masses. It is expensive , but lots of folks sneared at the XDR display and Apple has sold a decent number of them. ( enough that it was worth the effort to do the product. They are not taking over the monitor market as a 'unit volume' king. ) . One of the problems that Apple has to get over is that there are a vast number of mainstream folks who think VR == AR ( don't really think there is much of a difference. Or have been conditioned to think that AR is 'artificial reality' as opposed to 'augmented reality'. )

The R1 chip is a big deal. ( but the R1 doesn't have direct impact on common developer apps. Those apps don't 'run' there or have low level access to muck around. )
Great feedback and detailed post! 👍
 
Being restricted to one location in the US would be a big factor in developers not attending. Also another is that developers will not want to 'show their hand' to Apple with their thoughts and idea's because the developers would be well aware that Apple could take/steal their idea and claim that anything shown/disclosed at the labs can be used by Apple.

In my opinion developers would be prepared to wait for the device to launch, purchase one and then develop apps at their own premises away from prying eyes of others.
 
Real cinema experience at home also sounds pretty good.

And if it can walk can talk it isn't that expensive as weird as it may sound (for single users, it quickly adds up)

From an European perspective having to travel to Munich is also not great and mirrors the US problem.

Still, I hope they keep working and succeed because at its best Vision Pro looked great during the keynote.
I have friends/family. My "real cinema experience" is enjoying it with other people, not just purely the quality of the screen.
 
Not sure if you were agreeing or more likely being sarcastic, but these literally the 2 areas that historically defined advances in tech.
Think we’d have such capable GPUs without gaming?
Porn… always has helped adoption - see the failure of Betamax, and hd-dvd as two.
Bit of both... because indeed folks don't see the other purposes until someone with vision comes up with them... when the first GPUs came out no one was thinking this will be used for AI and a decentralized ledger that can be used for alternative stores of value. Your OP seemed to indicate the Vision Pro will fail because there are the *only* two use cases.
 
I have a bad feeling about Vision. I hope it doesn’t flop but I don’t see it being as popular as other Apple devices.
Don't think it's meant to be. If anything, they seem to be targeting creative professionals currently (hence the Pro in the name too) who need the Mac or a PC. The need for computers is fading for most people so there's really no convincing use case for the general public, but maybe one day a non-Pro Vision will address that.

For now, for creatives like me, there's many potential use cases where the Vision Pro would be a better alternative than the Mac. The day I'm able to model and paint 3D models overlaid in the real world is the day I buy it and I'm sure that is coming.

I think they missed the target that's interested in the current iteration of the product while trying to explain the general concept in the keynote. Or perhaps they weren't ready onboarding partners from the professional fields like Blender for example. Character designers would also find it no doubt a great tool. For FaceTime, making presentations and watching movies though the value proposition is not very clear as even the cheapest iPhone SE does that. Currently it's more of a B2B thing.
 
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i don't think this will be a flop, but it may not be a huge success with the first generation. Apple's thing has always been taking something already done and doing a much better job than anyone else at it... and I feel like they haven't quite hit that with this first release. This device is probably the best VR headset in existence, but it's not clearly better in every way than a Quest 2 for the average person for example despite the 10x price tag. It's not like how the Macintosh/iPod/iPhone/iPad/Apple Watch brought big advances to their product categories to the point it basically reinvented them.

I think they rushed it honestly, and as long as we have been hearing these headset rumors I don't know why they felt the need to rush it out. Very unusual for Apple. But who knows, maybe it will be a massive seller and take over the world of VR and change everything.
While I think it's necessary that Apple gets to the market as early as they can, I'm genuinely confused why they didn't wait just one more year for the M3.

Unless they plan on keeping M2 for another year, I find it odd that a product that will be released in 2024 to come with an M2 chip (current rumors indicate M3 is coming later this year or Spring 2024 around the release of Vision Pro). It will already look "outdated" by the time it's out especially when it hits international markets in late next year.

Not to mention being able to take advantage what I presume will be a more efficient chip to help with the 2 hour battery life? Idk.

Either way I'm still looking forward to the release. Very expensive but impressive piece of tech.
 
The Vision looks great, but developing for it is one sure way to lose money. Apple killed off most of the indie developers with their App Store shenanigans, and they were the most creative bunch and possibly the best source of a killer app. It's the crooked App Store algorithms that will keep developers away. The app chart, when it comes, will be all the usual suspects and sure, some innovative apps, but this is a niche product with very little opportunity for most developers to make a dime.
 
Ahh. They're not offering labs outside of the one in Cupertino.

Well, US developers only have one city option. No wonder the numbers are low.

I wonder how many people actually read the article on here. Lol. It doesn't seem like many from the responses.
Yup. The lede was buried here. Implying Devs aren’t interested when the simple fact is there’s only one domestic location is misleading at best.

The real story is why Apple isn’t ‘roadshowing’ the hell out of this device.
 
The issue is there's no money to be made in developing for the Vision Pro, there are analysts that expect Apple to only ship 150k units in 2024 which is nothing. You have multi-trillion dollar companies (Meta, Microsoft, etc) killing off their Apple Watch Apps because they find it not profitable to continue developing them and those apps are more installed than any vision pro app ever will.

I think it's a cool product, I think the price point is too high though and it's not providing any compelling value, as in, there's nothing the average user will benefit from doing on the Vision Pro compared to an iPhone, Mac or TV. You may get a few niche apps that people will maybe try once or twice but I can't think of any use case for the average consumer that would be better served with a headset compared to the methods of consumption we have currently from Apple.
 
11 hilarious naysayers who criticized the first iPhone 10 years ago...

  1. “Five hundred dollars, fully subsidized, with a plan?! I said, ‘That is the most expensive phone in the world! And it doesn’t appeal to business customers because it doesn’t have a keyboard!’” — Steve Ballmer, former Microsoft CEO​
  2. “iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks.” — Matthew Lynn, Bloomberg​
  3. “The iPhone will not substantially alter the fundamental structure and challenges of the mobile industry.” He said the iPhone was “late to the party” and predicted rivals like Nokia would “attack” the iPhone by offering deals to carriers. — Analyst Charles Golvin, Forrester​
  4. “If it’s smart [Apple] will call the iPhone a ‘reference design’ and pass it to some suckers to build with someone else’s marketing budget. Then it can wash its hands of any marketplace failures… Otherwise I’d advise people to cover their eyes. You are not going to like what you’ll see.” —John C. Dvorak, tech columnist​
  5. “There is a low demand for converged, all-in-one devices. Only 31% of Americans surveyed said they wanted a device with multiple capabilities, and that dropped to 27% in Japan, according to research by Universal McCann.” —The Guardian
  6. “Is there a toaster that also knows how to brew coffee? There is no such combined device, because it would not make anything better than an individual toaster or coffee machine. It works the same way with the iPod, the digital camera or mobile phone: it is important to have specialized devices.” —Jon Rubinstein, former iPod engineer​
  7. “No stylus is provided.” —Edward Baig, USA Today
  8. “There’s no memory-card slot, no chat program, no voice dialing. You can’t install new programs from anyone but Apple…The browser can’t handle Java or Flash, which deprives you of millions of Web videos.” —David Pogue, The New York Times
  9. “[The handset] can get warm with constant use, and you’ll need to wipe off smudges frequently with the included cloth. We’re still iffy about the software keyboard and predictive text entry: They work reasonably well, but overall text entry is still easier with a hardware keyboard, and the iPhone may not be the best choice for people who need to compose a lot of e-mail.” —PC World
  10. “Aside from Web speed issues, the iPhone has two serious flaws. First, it’s awkward to handle. At 4 1/2 by 2 3/8 inches, it’s half an inch wider than my regular cell phone — too wide to hold comfortably. And the iPhone is slippery — too easy to drop.” —Mike Himowitz, The Baltimore Sun
  11. “Although the phone contains a complete iPod, you can’t use your songs as ringtones. There aren’t any games…” —Walter Mossberg, The Wall Street Journal

Sounds familiar? ;)

Excellent list. And there's a long list of MR commenters that also proclaimed it a flop for various reasons.

Apple's iPod introduction was another, with similar comments here. The best being, "Who asked for a thousand songs in your pocket?" That was in reference to Steve Jobs' iPod introduction where his tagline was "A thousand songs in your pocket!"

It's like people will go out of their way, and move mountains if necessary, in order to keep their imagination tightly sequestered away in a lockbox, never to see the light of day. All in service to taking a swing at Apple.

Apple's Vision Pro introduction is like déjà vu all over again.
 
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Hahaha...I just looked back. Apple announced these labs on Tuesday, July 27th. So, 1 week ago. Who would expect them to be full 1 week out?
I would think so. Even us small time developers got the sign up emails, and I would think people would schedule attending now if they really had plans to make an app for release time. I know I would if I did. I'm not planning on it, but that's more because I don't think the headset will work well for me because of my physical limitations, rather than thinking it wont sell.


And yet, this is "evidence!" that Vision Pro will be DOA. hahaha.
I wouldn't say DOA. I do think it's overhyped and will only be niche category until it's MUCH smaller and lighter. Big time developers will have to jump in early though...
 
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All you guys are supposed to be the next group of brilliant, innovative and forward thinking minds that will lead us into the future. You would never think so from reading most of the comments.
That's a weird thing to say. It's the last thing I'd think of most people around here, including me. I'm not a leader, I'm just an older IT guy that happens to like Macs (and just about any other OS and hardware platforms) and this is a good place to talk about it and learn things.
 
I have friends/family. My "real cinema experience" is enjoying it with other people, not just purely the quality of the screen.
Most people have friends and family and still they have plenty of solo activities.
Won't work for everyone but there's certainly there something to work with.
 
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