Apple's Workforce is Slightly More Diverse This Year

[oneMadRssn]

Even as a goal, percentages are discriminatory. I see that you don't mind being a racist, sexist, etc. and that said discrimination is justifiable because it happened to others in the past. For me any racism, sexism, etc. is not acceptable. Period. But percentages are only an excuse to allow discrimination and further the divide between classes of people. Sure its is an easy metric. The problem, that metric is garbage. Hiring just one person to better the numbers is discriminatory because it means you hired them because of their race, gender, etc. Hiring or not hiring a person because of race, gender, etc. are both discriminatory to the person not hired.

It is pretty easy to review resumes and the reviewers notes to determine if the reviewer was discriminatory. There never are two candidates that are equal except for race, gender, etc. Each has a different personality, ability to communicate, ability to work under stress, knowledge, skills, etc. So yes, this is a hard problem. But it is not a problem fixed by simple percentages.

You, and many others here, are too fixated on the hiring aspect of it. That's just one micro part of a much larger issue.

There is no disagreement, in general, on the micro of hiring: Don't discriminate based on race or gender, and really don't take anything that isn't skill, experience, or personality into account. Yet even not discriminating at all, there will be disparate results, which is bad.

I'm arguing that people have to look at the bigger picture here, the macro. You have to ask, why is that when we don't discriminate do we get discriminatory results? Why is it when 50% of the population is female, the most engineering school classes are 20% female at most? Why is it that more females switch out of engineering during college than males? Why is it that some companies are better at attracting female engineers to work for them than others? The answer isn't because women are inherently worse than men at engineering. The answer is because the whole system, from high school graduate to career, is centered around men. I can keep pointing out the details.

There is so much more to it than just hiring. If colleges redesigned their engineering program to be more friendly to females, and did a better job keeping women engaged throughout, and companies did a better job adapting the work schedules to fit a broader type of lifestyles, we would see closer to 50% of women engineers.

Also, this issue isn't unique to engineering. Business, law, and many other fields see similar issues.

 

[PBRsg]

Just focus on your products, please.
[doublepost=1470338268][/doublepost]

You, and many others here, are too fixated on the hiring aspect of it. That's just one micro part of a much larger issue.

There is no disagreement, in general, on the micro of hiring: Don't discriminate based on race or gender, and really don't take anything that isn't skill, experience, or personality into account. Yet even not discriminating at all, there will be disparate results, which is bad.

I'm arguing that people have to look at the bigger picture here, the macro. You have to ask, why is that when we don't discriminate do we get discriminatory results? Why is it when 50% of the population is female, the most engineering school classes are 20% female at most? Why is it that more females switch out of engineering during college than males? Why is it that some companies are better at attracting female engineers to work for them than others? The answer isn't because women are inherently worse than men at engineering. The answer is because the whole system, from high school graduate to career, is centered around men. I can keep pointing out the details.

There is so much more to it than just hiring. If colleges redesigned their engineering program to be more friendly to females, and did a better job keeping women engaged throughout, and companies did a better job adapting the work schedules to fit a broader type of lifestyles, we would see closer to 50% of women engineers.

Also, this issue isn't unique to engineering. Business, law, and many other fields see similar issues.

Nobody ever adapted a course for a certain gender. Engineering was never adapted for men, it was just engineering and men did it. Women need to stop whining and expecting that the world be changed to accomodate them. What you said is ridiculous.
[doublepost=1470338720][/doublepost]

So "sick and tired" of these Trump types with their "I hate PC".

The "anti-PC" is the new "PC".

LISTEN UP, TRUMPERS: Apple could care less about a vocal minority in the US like you.

Do you know who is actually a minority? People like you who think that PC culture is not a problem and a nuisance to most people.

 

[bladerunner2000]

There is so much more to it than just hiring. If colleges redesigned their engineering program to be more friendly to females, and did a better job keeping women engaged throughout, and companies did a better job adapting the work schedules to fit a broader type of lifestyles, we would see closer to 50% of women engineers.

That is ridiculous. Why should an educational program change it's format? It's there to teach individuals, not a particular gender. Would you apply that kind of mentality to the military? Everyone is on equal footing... something REAL feminists want... except this new wave of ultra feminists treats equality like a buffet.

Bill Burr said it best;

I was dating this girl recently. She was like really into like women’s issues, you know? Cause women always go on TV and they say all they want is to be treated exactly like guys, but if you listen to them, they don’t. All they want is the good **** of being a guy. They’re cherry-picking. They’re looking at guys’ life like it’s a like a buffet, right. Like you just could start picking out stuff, like “Same amount an hour, we’ll take some of that. Pay for the movie. **** that– you can keep that. I don’t like that. This is nice. That’s yucky. That’s icky.”

Come on, people. You can’t choose. This girl gives me ****, she goes: ““Well why does a guy make more an hour to do the exact same job?”” I go “I’ll tell you why. Because in the unlikely event that we’re both on a Titanic and it starts to sink. For some ****ed up reason, you get to leave with the kids, and I have to stay.” That’s why I get a dollar more an hour. No it’s a dollar an hour surcharge.

You hear a bump in the night, I gotta go check it out, like, yes! He does have a knife! Anytime there’s a hostage situation who do they negotiate for? “Well at least let the women and children go.” Well, what about me?! You think I wanna stay in the vault with those 20 other sweaty guys, sharing a bag of peanuts you know? Prayin’ to God I’m not the hostage who gets dragged out by the psycho. With a gun to my head as he’s asking the cops for a helicopter. Which I know he’s not gonna get, right? I know he’s not getting the helicopter. So now I’ve gotta make idle conversation with a .38 to my head going. “Dude, go for the rent-a-car. I think you should go for the rent-a-car.”

 

[oneMadRssn]

Nobody ever adapted a course for a certain gender. Engineering was never adapted for men, it was just engineering and men did it. Women need to stop whining and expecting that the world be changed to accomodate them. What you said is ridiculous.

And what you said is babyboomer bullplop. Academia has been adapted for men since Socrates.

 

[bladerunner2000]

And what you said is babyboomer bullplop. Academia has been adapted for men since Socrates.

How is the current method of teaching also sexist? (my god, some of you are really reaching)

 

[PBRsg]

And what you said is babyboomer bullplop. Academia has been adapted for men since Socrates.

What was it? Those keyboards designed for man hands that I had to use to get my graduate degree in STEM? LMAO!

 

[oneMadRssn]

How is the current method of teaching also sexist? (my god, some of you are really reaching)

I never said they were sexist.

 

[bladerunner2000]

What was it? Those keyboards designed for man hands that I had to use to get my graduate degree in STEM? LMAO!

Perhaps there should be a 5 minute break every 30 minutes to discuss the important social issues and influence of the Kardashians in modern society and social media?

Would that make women feel more comfortable in a gender neutral classroom setting?

 

[Zirel]

Do you know who is actually a minority? People like you who think that PC culture is not a problem and a nuisance to most people.

PC culture? You're confusing the people that want to be angry at something with the normal people that don't want to do what weak people do: bash the weaker people.

 

[MDiddy]

Perhaps there should be a 5 minute break every 30 minutes to discuss the important social issues and influence of the Kardashians in modern society and social media?

Would that make women feel more comfortable in a gender neutral classroom setting?

Wow

 

[bladerunner2000]

Wow

Yeah, you see how crazy that sounds? So why would anyone suggest making a classroom environment more 'female friendly' ?????

 

[melendezest]

Over 90% of the people in jail are men. Is that because the system is sexist against men?

That's not even close to the same thing. People in jail are put there because there is hard, physical evidence (most of the time) of their wrongful behaviour against them.

So again, I ask very specifically, what would you consider valid, hard evidence of racism? I'm honestly curious.

You cleverly avoided answering the questions I posted previously. They were not rhetorical.

 

[PBRsg]

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of applicants. Maybe certain groups of people aren't as interested in tech and therefore are "under represented".

Hint: it's the same demographics that does not enrol in technology courses...
[doublepost=1470349568][/doublepost]

I'm so sick of all this diversity crap.

LISTEN UP, APPLE: the only thing that matters is merit. If 100% of your workers are white, male and middle-aged, I couldn't be more delighted, as long as they are hired on merit and merit alone.

To be pro-diversity is to be anti-merit. It's no wonder Apple is going to hell in a handcart with Tim Cook at the helm and his insufferable prejudice against hiring the best man for the job.

Yes, but to be pro diversity is to be pro social justice, which is pretty much all that left wing brainwashed zombies seem to care about.
[doublepost=1470350356][/doublepost]

Yeah, in a perfect world.

Just as an example. In Germany, if a totally equally qualified man and a woman apply for a job, the job must go to the woman. The brother of my wife is a recruiter, and he just told us that he does not want women. They may get pregnant and leave for a year or two so he has to recruit again. But with that law he has to take women if they are really talented. This may help women and I support this since I saw how hard it was for my wife to find a job when we had no kids. Oh and to piss of recruiters, more and more German men stay at home after birth. Modern times.

Germany is completely pussified these days and on the way to its demise. That is nothing to be proud of.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

It's been established in this fine thread:

Diversity is a useless lie that must be discarded by all companies.

Merit is all that counts.

Thank goodness that there are so many wise souls at MacRumors who see sense. It makes me proud to be in such company. Thank you, God.

 

[PBRsg]

PC culture? You're confusing the people that want to be angry at something with the normal people that don't want to do what weak people do: bash the weaker people.

Stop making PC culture sound noble. It is not good manners nor is it the protection of the weak. It is left wing BS. More specifically, it is the exaggeration of those mutual obligations that the collectivists cannot get enough of.

 

[KdParker]

Superbly put.

The diversity pushers just can't accept that men and women have different preferences when it comes to different kinds of jobs. Any job that doesn't have 50% of each is suspect in their eyes. It's bonkers, but that's the upside-down world we live in today.

Again your making the assumption that the women highered didnt get the job on merit. And nobody said diversity looks like a 50/50 quota.

 

[0098386]

If this is how you really think, then you're part of the problem, not the solution.
---
If you're looking at race and gender as qualifications, then you're not hiring based on "best".

It's a shame you think this way. I don't know why you think that I'm part of the problem. My experience is as follows;

My industry is a boys club, though that is slowly changing. In 2013 the number of men harassing women at key events (ones I attended at least) grew significantly. My partner studied in the field and got better results than I did, and despite being more talented was unable to get a job. Whereas I'm less talented but I was able to find work. Everyone who interviewed me was "laddish", and though I'm not I can fake it. But that was a decade ago, I set up my own company with my partner and we were, and continue to be, successful. As it's a creative company, I find the people we hire bring in much more unique and interesting voices and that aids us.

So that's it really. We like to hire people who have talent that have been let down elsewhere. I understand from the tone of your post that no matter what I say I'll be unable to at least get to to consider a different POV to this (I have a friend who only hires women because she doesn't feel comfortable around men (from an abusive relationship she was trapped in for years)). So there's that.
[doublepost=1470353928][/doublepost]

You don't have to divulge your industry, but I'm curious as to what you see as the barriers to entry. Does it start with deficiencies in the educational system, or influences from pop culture?

So far as I have experienced in the workplace firsthand, white and black men were very welcoming, very encouraging and eager to be mentors to women and minorities (in a non-creepy way). That's not to say I never ran into sexual harassment or bigotry. Oh I did! But I also ran into many white men who wanted to make a difference and open up their fields to minorities and women.

Where I am finding a real insidious influence is in pop culture, media and marketing of toys, books, entertainment to children. This is where I find girls are being influenced to put a priority on fashion and appearance above an interest in science and math and other interests that would lead them to careers in fields traditionally dominated by white males.

At any rate, kudos to you for your efforts. I hope you're able to make the difference you seek to make.
[doublepost=1470267288][/doublepost]
It's not so much that he's trying to enforce quotas. But if he can open up opportunities and get more women or minorities into the field, it can help in the future for a more natural progression into this field (whatever it is) for the people who have an interest in it but may think they would encounter barriers to entry if they try to go for it.

It is a difficult thing to strike the balance for our society that we seek, without leaving out people unfairly.

That's it completely. My partner is a woman and has experienced how poorly this industry treats women. So I listen to her, it's not all me wanting to change the world - I'm listening to someone who lived it and we're both trying to do what we can, in a tiny way, to help improve that. If only for the talented people we employ or contract who were unable to find work elsewhere due to the nature of our industry.

What changed it all for me was seeing a friend get assaulted at a show once and nothing was done to the (obviously) white, male CEO who did the assaulting. It was filmed but he retained his job and the woman was let go just a month later. Stuff like that is not on.

Edit: as for what causes the problem to start with. My only guess is that groups of guys form companies whilst at university (at least thats what I've noticed locally), and they then hire male friends that they get on with. Etc. that problem snowballs until there's a huge imbalance. Courses have a fairly nice balance. I think the horror stories from women in the industry are harmful for balance but are required reading if change is to come. Which it is - just slowly.

 

[IPPlanMan]

That's not even close to the same thing. People in jail are put there because there is hard, physical evidence (most of the time) of their wrongful behaviour against them.

So again, I ask very specifically, what would you consider valid, hard evidence of racism? I'm honestly curious.

You cleverly avoided answering the questions I posted previously. They were not rhetorical.

It's telling you didn't answer this.... So I'll give you another chance to.

Is the fact that over 90% of people in jail are men sufficient evidence on its own for you to believe the system is sexist?

If so, why?
If not, why not?

Answer my question and it'll answer yours.
[doublepost=1470365654][/doublepost]

It's a shame you think this way. I don't know why you think that I'm part of the problem. My experience is as follows;

My industry is a boys club, though that is slowly changing. In 2013 the number of men harassing women at key events (ones I attended at least) grew significantly. My partner studied in the field and got better results than I did, and despite being more talented was unable to get a job. Whereas I'm less talented but I was able to find work. Everyone who interviewed me was "laddish", and though I'm not I can fake it. But that was a decade ago, I set up my own company with my partner and we were, and continue to be, successful. As it's a creative company, I find the people we hire bring in much more unique and interesting voices and that aids us.

So that's it really. We like to hire people who have talent that have been let down elsewhere. I understand from the tone of your post that no matter what I say I'll be unable to at least get to to consider a different POV to this (I have a friend who only hires women because she doesn't feel comfortable around men (from an abusive relationship she was trapped in for years)). So there's that.
[doublepost=1470353928][/doublepost]

That's it completely. My partner is a woman and has experienced how poorly this industry treats women. So I listen to her, it's not all me wanting to change the world - I'm listening to someone who lived it and we're both trying to do what we can, in a tiny way, to help improve that. If only for the talented people we employ or contract who were unable to find work elsewhere due to the nature of our industry.

What changed it all for me was seeing a friend get assaulted at a show once and nothing was done to the (obviously) white, male CEO who did the assaulting. It was filmed but he retained his job and the woman was let go just a month later. Stuff like that is not on.

Edit: as for what causes the problem to start with. My only guess is that groups of guys form companies whilst at university (at least thats what I've noticed locally), and they then hire male friends that they get on with. Etc. that problem snowballs until there's a huge imbalance. Courses have a fairly nice balance. I think the horror stories from women in the industry are harmful for balance but are required reading if change is to come. Which it is - just slowly.

When you seek diversity, hopefully it's based on who's best instead of who's different.

 

[5105973]

It's a shame you think this way. I don't know why you think that I'm part of the problem. My experience is as follows;

My industry is a boys club, though that is slowly changing. In 2013 the number of men harassing women at key events (ones I attended at least) grew significantly. My partner studied in the field and got better results than I did, and despite being more talented was unable to get a job. Whereas I'm less talented but I was able to find work. Everyone who interviewed me was "laddish", and though I'm not I can fake it. But that was a decade ago, I set up my own company with my partner and we were, and continue to be, successful. As it's a creative company, I find the people we hire bring in much more unique and interesting voices and that aids us.

So that's it really. We like to hire people who have talent that have been let down elsewhere. I understand from the tone of your post that no matter what I say I'll be unable to at least get to to consider a different POV to this (I have a friend who only hires women because she doesn't feel comfortable around men (from an abusive relationship she was trapped in for years)). So there's that.
[doublepost=1470353928][/doublepost]

That's it completely. My partner is a woman and has experienced how poorly this industry treats women. So I listen to her, it's not all me wanting to change the world - I'm listening to someone who lived it and we're both trying to do what we can, in a tiny way, to help improve that. If only for the talented people we employ or contract who were unable to find work elsewhere due to the nature of our industry.

What changed it all for me was seeing a friend get assaulted at a show once and nothing was done to the (obviously) white, male CEO who did the assaulting. It was filmed but he retained his job and the woman was let go just a month later. Stuff like that is not on.

Edit: as for what causes the problem to start with. My only guess is that groups of guys form companies whilst at university (at least thats what I've noticed locally), and they then hire male friends that they get on with. Etc. that problem snowballs until there's a huge imbalance. Courses have a fairly nice balance. I think the horror stories from women in the industry are harmful for balance but are required reading if change is to come. Which it is - just slowly.

Indeed, I found my time at a university extremely difficult when I had to work with a group of male students on a semester project. It was supposed to be a group project but they were extremely unfriendly. It was my first time being shut out like that and I was shocked because I've always gotten along great with guys as friends socially and as fellow students on group projects, and as coworkers in my part-time jobs.

I did my part of it mostly alone, with some help from my boyfriend (who is now my husband) who was not taking the class himself. But I needed some assistance creating the marketing materials and could not rely on my team members for help. I then submitted my work to "the guys" but unbeknownst to me, they had met without me and decided to take the project in a completely different direction and the work we had all agreed I would do was barely used. It was a humiliating and uncomfortable experience. And quite bewildering because I'd never run across the likes of such behavior before.

Thank you for reminding me of it...and I don't mean that sarcastically. I think I've buried a lot of bad experiences like that in deep storage in my memory because I don't like to focus on the negative. But in so doing, I think I do a disservice to the people who are still struggling to overcome the barriers they still encounter or remnants of a time sexism was more openly practiced without fear of repercussion.

I do have a few random isolated sexual harassment horror stories as an employee and as a patient in the US healthcare system, but surprisingly for the two incidents I chose to report, it was women in power who brushed it all aside and swept everything under the rug. The cumulative effects on me being discounted like that were bad and led to one particularly traumatic event as a patient that I should have reported to law enforcement but never did for fear of being brushed aside again, but I don't want to talk about it.

At any rate, after that depressing university experience, I was very pleasantly surprised to find once I got out into the workplace that the vast majority of men I would work with were very progressive and supportive and the jerks were few and far between. I am very fortunate to live and to have worked in a region with tremendous racial diversity and respect for working women (and stay-at-home parents). I have to forcefully remind myself it's not this good everywhere.

I think it's wonderful that you and your partner are trying to expand opportunities and extend a more welcoming atmosphere for women in your field. Keep at it.

And for what it's worth I think now I understand why you came down hard on me when you thought I was being exclusionary toward people with neurological differences in the Pokemon Go discussion. Clearly you've seen a lot of unjust treatment toward people and are committed to fighting it. I apologize for fostering that misunderstanding. I hope you understand that is something of a generation gap I'm trying to overcome.

 

[brinary001]

My God you are ignorant! The assumption that the white candidates are all qualified but only a few minorities are.

What?? Jesus are you kidding me? You clearly didn't read my post or the one before that, or even the bloody story this thread is about for that matter. Apple has a special interest in hiring as many minorities and underrepresented groups as possible. Now do you honestly think they're not pulling strings to have that done? Major corporations are capable of the nastiest of deeds, so I think slightly improving their image in the eyes of their customers and, perhaps more importantly The Department of Labor, is fairly easy for them to do while concurrently screwing over someone else (in this case a white candidate).

Ugh this is why I rarely post responses in PRSI stories because it's just people like you spewing whatever barely cognitive dribble comes to their mind without even a hint of investigating the other person's comments.

 

[2010mini]

What?? Jesus are you kidding me? You clearly didn't read my post or the one before that, or even the bloody story this thread is about for that matter. Apple has a special interest in hiring as many minorities and underrepresented groups as possible. Now do you honestly think they're not pulling strings to have that done? Major corporations are capable of the nastiest of deeds, so I think slightly improving their image in the eyes of their customers and, perhaps more importantly The Department of Labor, is fairly easy for them to do while concurrently screwing over someone else (in this case a white candidate).

Ugh this is why I rarely post responses in PRSI stories because it's just people like you spewing whatever barely cognitive dribble comes to their mind without even a hint of investigating the other person's comments.

The ignorance is your assumption that the the minorities in question are not EQUALLY QUALIFIED candidates. You automatically assume they are just doing this to fill a quota. And are "lowering" their standards to do so. Why do you think that? Hmmmm????

Minorities can't be hired because they are equally qualified? They can only be hired to fill a quota or dress up an image?

 

[nt5672]

Indeed, I found my time at a university extremely difficult when I had to work with a group of male students on a semester project. It was supposed to be a group project but they were extremely unfriendly. It was my first time being shut out like that and I was shocked because I've always gotten along great with guys as friends socially and as fellow students on group projects, and as coworkers in my part-time jobs.

I did my part of it mostly alone, with some help from my boyfriend (who is now my husband) who was not taking the class himself. But I needed some assistance creating the marketing materials and could not rely on my team members for help. I then submitted my work to "the guys" but unbeknownst to me, they had met without me and decided to take the project in a completely different direction and the work we had all agreed I would do was barely used. It was a humiliating and uncomfortable experience. And quite bewildering because I'd never run across the likes of such behavior before.
. . . .

Overall I agree with your post and that you were treated badly at university. What follows is in no way trying to justify your bad experience or to blame you, which would both be unreasonable in post like this. But anyone reading this should consider that maybe people treated like you were, were treated that way because they were timid and not solely because they were female. Everyone these days wants to blame someone else (again, not talking about you, because I was not in your situation, so I don't know. In all likelihood the guys that treated you that way were jerks, and obviously did not know how to properly act around co-workers or women. After all they had just graduated high school, which along with bad parenting is not normally a good preparation for the real world.)

For example, I started an industrial engineering company a long time ago, basically before diversity was a problem. Guess what? The first person I hired was a female engineer a couple of years out of grad school. I did not know her prior to hiring her, but she had the qualifications, the attitude, was happy with the salary, work schedule, and travel. She was about 5 ft tall, and not a super model. Oh, and she was the highest paid person in the company. Why? Her degree and knowledge required it. As far as I know she never had a problem with me, the other 30 engineers, mostly male, we eventually hired, or any of our all male customers in large national companies. Remember this was at at time when everyone was supposed to be sexist, especially large all male technical manufacturing operations.

But here is the thing, she did not tolerate unprofessional behavior, she was not the least bit timid, and in any group, she was respected from the first time she entered a room or spoke. I am not able to quantify exactly why in this post, but she just had what it took. My wife, with whom I am still married, had no problems with me traveling with her and we pulled a lot of out-of-town all nighters getting company projects completed. I am sure we interacted with a lot of sexists (in fact political correctness tells us, they all were), but they did not dare around her. I wonder why?

You might be surprised what confidence, honesty, integrity, knowledge and self-esteem contribute to how someone is treated and trusted both male and female. This is where our schools fail, both high school and colleges. Both have their phony baloney be-nice programs that teach people to be timid and let the system protect them. Let me tell you, no one needed to protect this female engineer, her parents saw to that. And no she did not have any martial arts training.

Again, not commenting on your situation because I was not involved, but a female being treated poorly does not automatically mean gender was the cause. We can't talk about all of the real causes today because, according to political correctness, it is being insensitive. Until we can talk about the real causes it is not going to improve.

 

[melendezest]

It's telling you didn't answer this.... So I'll give you another chance to.

Is the fact that over 90% of people in jail are men sufficient evidence on its own for you to believe the system is sexist?

If so, why?
If not, why not?

Answer my question and it'll answer yours.
[doublepost=1470365654][/doublepost]

When you seek diversity, hopefully it's based on who's best instead of who's different.

I did answer it: No, because in the US you need evidence of a crime against documented laws.

As I pointed out before, your question is completely invalid and a straw-man argument when related to the issue at hand, like comparing apples and meat.

There's two things that make this true:

1. It's not illegal in the US to be a racist.
2. Racism does not leave any physical evidence.

I point out physical evidence repeatedly because it is obvious that producing witnesses to the event is not considered valid evidence for you, even if that is enough for the Justice System of the US in criminal cases.

But never mind.

Your responses and avoidances of my questions (I did ask you first) are telling as well.

You're one of those people that think that having a black President is proof enough that racism in the US doesn't exist, and runs around with their fingers in their ears going "la-la-la-la-no, there's not a problem" when multiple witnesses and victims try to tell you otherwise.

Nothing more to discuss, I got my answers. As they say: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

[5105973]

Overall I agree with your post and that you were treated badly at university. What follows is in no way trying to justify your bad experience or to blame you, which would both be unreasonable in post like this. But anyone reading this should consider that maybe people treated like you were, were treated that way because they were timid and not solely because they were female. Everyone these days wants to blame someone else (again, not talking about you, because I was not in your situation, so I don't know. In all likelihood the guys that treated you that way were jerks, and obviously did not know how to properly act around co-workers or women. After all they had just graduated high school, which along with bad parenting is not normally a good preparation for the real world.)

For example, I started an industrial engineering company a long time ago, basically before diversity was a problem. Guess what? The first person I hired was a female engineer a couple of years out of grad school. I did not know her prior to hiring her, but she had the qualifications, the attitude, was happy with the salary, work schedule, and travel. She was about 5 ft tall, and not a super model. Oh, and she was the highest paid person in the company. Why? Her degree and knowledge required it. As far as I know she never had a problem with me, the other 30 engineers, mostly male, we eventually hired, or any of our all male customers in large national companies. Remember this was at at time when everyone was supposed to be sexist, especially large all male technical manufacturing operations.

But here is the thing, she did not tolerate unprofessional behavior, she was not the least bit timid, and in any group, she was respected from the first time she entered a room or spoke. I am not able to quantify exactly why in this post, but she just had what it took. My wife, with whom I am still married, had no problems with me traveling with her and we pulled a lot of out-of-town all nighters getting company projects completed. I am sure we interacted with a lot of sexists (in fact political correctness tells us, they all were), but they did not dare around her. I wonder why?

You might be surprised what confidence, honesty, integrity, knowledge and self-esteem contribute to how someone is treated and trusted both male and female. This is where our schools fail, both high school and colleges. Both have their phony baloney be-nice programs that teach people to be timid and let the system protect them. Let me tell you, no one needed to protect this female engineer, her parents saw to that. And no she did not have any martial arts training.

Again, not commenting on your situation because I was not involved, but a female being treated poorly does not automatically mean gender was the cause. We can't talk about all of the real causes today because, according to political correctness, it is being insensitive. Until we can talk about the real causes it is not going to improve.

I totally get your point and agree that anyone, male or female, needs to project a certain confidence and personality to work well with groups. This is going to be a bit long so bear with me.

Just to clarify, this was a senior project and it was our last project before graduation, so these guys had at least three and a half years outside of high school to adjust to working with females.

I was friendly, confident, and neither attempted to dominate the group nor be a shrinking violet. I think the problem was THEY were the ones unwilling to be in the company of females as anything other than dates, just based on what I observed of them outside of the group. And they outnumbered and outmaneuvered me to ensure I was not able to assert a place on the team by meeting and communicating without me.

I did attempt to talk with them about this but they just met me with creepy smiles and stares and patronizingly assured me it was all going to work out and we would all get a good grade. It was freaky. But their take on the project was solid and my own written report would be judged on its own individual merit, so I decided to pick my battles and let it slide because that project was one of many other things I had to worry about before graduation. When we gave our oral reports we did look like a team. They didn't sabotage me on that, at least, because it would have been too obvious and they would have gotten in trouble.

Sexism in the medical establishment nearly killed me and did ruin my career. That was not a matter of sexual harassment but of a male dominated medical establishment being in the habit of dismissing nearly all health concerns of women as being psychological or reproductive in nature, just as all the many news reports, studies, and articles say. It took YEARS and suffering through several bigoted doctors before I was finally able to find a doctor who needed only a few minutes and a couple of tests to correctly diagnose a heart defect. All prior doctors dismissed my symptoms as depression or nerves, which confounded everyone who knew me as a pretty bubbly and steady person. I ended up frail and having to make a choice between being able to recover quickly and being able to become a mother or working while thin, frail and ailing under a slow recovery that would likely put motherhood out of reach.

I might not be here today if a female executive at my company who had gone through a similar ordeal had not encouraged me to keep fighting until I got a solid diagnosis. It turned out she and I had the same heart problem--and she had chosen a career and never did have kids. If a mature, respected, powerful and heavily credentialed woman like her got treated as badly as I did, there is something wrong with the system, not the woman.

The sexual harassment I encountered at work and with one doctor, I did go through proper channels and procedures to report and was as forceful as I could be without being able to afford legal counsel to advise or back me up. So yeah, that's on me for not being a strong and savvy "victim".

But it IS blaming the victim for faults in the system that should not be evident at all if institutionalized racism and sexism really aren't a problem. In other words people in power who should have followed the law and protect me closed ranks on me instead so as to not rock the boat and deal with people at superior levels of power and influence. Which at that time and place was males.

At least in the workplace, once I saw going through the system wasn't going to help me, I decided it was okay to take care of it myself with a well placed elbow to the most obnoxious creep's gut and a hard stomp with a sharp heel to his foot. But that is assault and I am lucky he didn't report me and have me arrested!

 

[SBlue1]

Hint: it's the same demographics that does not enrol in technology courses...
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Yes, but to be pro diversity is to be pro social justice, which is pretty much all that left wing brainwashed zombies seem to care about.
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Germany is completely pussified these days and on the way to its demise. That is nothing to be proud of.

LOL. You must hate living in these times. Let me guess, you are born in the 50ies or wish you were. So sorry for you, there is no turning back. Poor guy.