Are you buying the new 16" MBP?

[maflynn]

Maybe a gen 4 that fixes the issues?

I had hoped the 3rd generation did just that. I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, but I was willing to accept that, as long as the keyboard was durable. Mere months after the release, those 3rd generation keyboards failed.

My belief is that the design of the keyboard is flawed, and the fixes that apple implemented are just band-aids. I'm not too hopeful, that a 4th gen will full fix it. Rather let me reword that, I'm no longer willing to gamble 3,000 dollars on schiller's promotion of an update that improved the keyboard.

 

[Dave245]

I had hoped the 3rd generation did just that. I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, but I was willing to accept that, as long as the keyboard was durable. Mere months after the release, those 3rd generation keyboards failed.

My belief is that the design of the keyboard is flawed, and the fixes that apple implemented are just band-aids. I'm not too hopeful, that a 4th gen will full fix it. Rather let me reword that, I'm no longer willing to gamble 3,000 dollars on schiller's promotion of an update that improved the keyboard.

I’m really hoping the issues are fixed in the next update. I really want the new Air but I don’t want a faulty keyboard. Apple must know that they need to fix the keyboard, they must be working on something.

 

[maflynn]

I’m really hoping the issues are fixed in the next update. I really want the new Air but I don’t want a faulty keyboard. Apple must know that they need to fix the keyboard, they must be working on something.

In all honesty, I had hoped the 3rd generation fixed the issue, and it appeared too, so I plunked down around $$ for a 15" MBP - mere months into ownership, reports of keyboards started trickling in. For me the hand writing was on the wall. I could hope that my keyboard wouldn't fail but I would be on pins and needles (remember the 2018 model is not part of the repair program) or I could sell the laptop sooner for more $$ and move on.

I chose the latter, because, it seemed silly to treat a laptop like an 8th century Ming vase. Its meant to be used and handled, I now have a laptop that is more durable, more functional, faster, cooler and has a far superior keyboard. I can't say I'll never buy a MBP again, but right now, I'm content with moving off the mac platform.

 

[Falhófnir]

Another larger laptop just released - refreshed 17" Razer blade pro (now very reminiscent of a 17" MBP) and Apple's awkward lineup heavily skewed towards tiny 13" or smaller models starts to look even more archaic. It's like the iPhone 5s in 2013, sure keep some options around at that size for those who want it but surely they clearly see the popularity of larger screen sizes? Where's the 15" MacBook Air? Where's the 14" MacBook Pro?

 

[leman]

I just can't see how they could release any more machines with this keyboard. They would get slaughtered in the press surely?

It doesn’t seem like the keyboard issues have affected their sales in any significant way, and besides, the amount of keyboard complains went down considerably since the 2018 models were released. It’s certainly not an optimal situation, but I’m sure they can afford continuing to use the keyboard.

 

[chucker23n1]

My belief is that the design of the keyboard is flawed, and the fixes that apple implemented are just band-aids.

Looks that way.

Another larger laptop just released - refreshed 17" Razer blade pro (now very reminiscent of a 17" MBP) and Apple's awkward lineup heavily skewed towards tiny 13" or smaller models starts to look even more archaic.

I really don't think a 17-inch gaming laptop is representative of either the mass market or the market Apple is interested in. They might do a larger laptop again, but if they do, it won't be because of Razor.

It doesn’t seem like the keyboard issues have affected their sales in any significant way, and besides, the amount of keyboard complains went down considerably since the 2018 models were released. It’s certainly not an optimal situation, but I’m sure they can afford continuing to use the keyboard.

It's hard to say what their sales could have been. I do think they took a hit on reputation, especially given that they don't have it under control after three years (four, if you count the MacBook). That may be fine for a $800 laptop, but they're asking premium prices…

 

[maflynn]

It doesn’t seem like the keyboard issues have affected their sales in any significant way

Sales are down, but those sales are inline with the industry. I'd pretty much bet that the average consumer is completely unaware of the issues related to the keyboard. I can see some parent walking into the apple store to buy a laptop because their child's school said they had too, or their child wanted a Mac.

As I see it, this means that their short term sales will not be impacted but if the keyboard failure continues, then over the long term their reputation will erode and more and more word of mouth could conceivably impact their sales.

 

[Falhófnir]

Looks that way.

I really don't think a 17-inch gaming laptop is representative of either the mass market or the market Apple is interested in. They might do a larger laptop again, but if they do, it won't be because of Razor.

It's hard to say what their sales could have been. I do think they took a hit on reputation, especially given that they don't have it under control after three years (four, if you count the MacBook). That may be fine for a $800 laptop, but they're asking premium prices…

In isolation it's not significant, but there is a trend across the industry is towards larger screens. Both with 15" devices encroaching into what would have been 13" computer territory previously, and also a renaissance of 17" models now being fitted into more manageable chassis. Meanwhile Apple have a lone model larger than 13" and it's insanely poor value for money. Yet again they look like the last to respond to what people are looking for while they fiddle about with what nobody is asking for.

 

[ascender]

Sales are down, but those sales are inline with the industry. I'd pretty much bet that the average consumer is completely unaware of the issues related to the keyboard. I can see some parent walking into the apple store to buy a laptop because their child's school said they had too, or their child wanted a Mac.

As I see it, this means that their short term sales will not be impacted but if the keyboard failure continues, then over the long term their reputation will erode and more and more word of mouth could conceivably impact their sales.

Its so difficult to tell what impact the keyboard issues have had on sales, especially given the price increases on this model - I seem to remember recent revenue for the "Mac" line has been very good and laptops are still the big sellers for them on the Mac side.

I'm sure the faulty keyboards (and the extended repair plan) will have a very noticeable impact on revenue which is why I'm still optimistic for the next redesign. We all know Apple listen to podcasts and media coverage - in recent times there's been a number of very high profile articles about the keyboards and we know some of the tech press have been very vocal about it for years now.

Like you say, its easy for those of us on here to forget that we're in the minority about Apple, knowing every little thing that happens and about all of the technical issues. I bet the majority of people wandering in to an Apple store have no idea about these issues.

But then without figures we just don't know how prevalent the issues actually are as a percentage of total sales.

 

[leman]

Another larger laptop just released - refreshed 17" Razer blade pro (now very reminiscent of a 17" MBP) and Apple's awkward lineup heavily skewed towards tiny 13" or smaller models starts to look even more archaic. It's like the iPhone 5s in 2013, sure keep some options around at that size for those who want it but surely they clearly see the popularity of larger screen sizes? Where's the 15" MacBook Air? Where's the 14" MacBook Pro?

Its great that Razer took a lesson of their previous designs (those GPUs were just too hot for their 15" chassis), so it looks like a very solid performer this time around. On the other hand, I am not sure how well a fairly niche gaming company represents the market trends (Razer's entire yearly sales revenue is 8% of Apple's one quarter Mac sales). Maybe we will see a resurgence of 17" gaming laptops, given that large gaming GPUs are in fashion again and powerful mobile CPUs are available.

I also have to say that I am surprised that many reviewers say that the 17" Razor Blade has dimensions of a 15" laptop... its 60% larger (volume-wise) than the 15" MBP and 50% heavier, while having a smaller battery. I'd at least expect them to pack a full-sized battery into that chassis...

 

[chucker23n1]

Its so difficult to tell what impact the keyboard issues have had on sales, especially given the price increases on this model - I seem to remember recent revenue for the "Mac" line has been very good and laptops are still the big sellers for them on the Mac side.

Revenues aside, their market share is also fairly stable.

1Q15: 6.4%
1Q16: 6.3%
1Q17: 6.7%
1Q18: 6.6%
1Q19: 6.8% (est.)

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/04/11/gartner-idc-pc-shipments-1q16/
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/11/q1-2017-worldwide-mac-sales-up-amid-pc-decline/
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/11/apple-mac-shipments-steady-q1-2018/
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/10/mac-shipments-down-q1-2019-gartner/

(Kudos to MacRumors for making these easy to dig up.)

Would Apple have sold more MacBook Pros without the keyboard problem? Probably. How many more is the question.

 

[leman]

Sales are down, but those sales are inline with the industry.

Why do you say that sales are down? The financial reports say something quire different: https://www.statista.com/statistics...macintosh-computers-since-first-quarter-2006/

In fact, Q3 2018 and Q1 2019 were the strongest Mac sales ever. This was well after the keyboard issues were widely reported in the media and after Apple has openly admitted the issues. Of course, its all Macs lumped together, so it's possible that all these sales were Mac Minis, but I'd at least expect a dip if people were avoiding the MBP or the MB.
[doublepost=1556043853][/doublepost]

Would Apple have sold more MacBook Pros without the keyboard problem? Probably. How many more is the question.

The problem with counterfactuals like these is that they are impossible to substantiate.

 

[maflynn]

Why do you say that sales are down?

Mac Shipments Down in Q1 2019 Amid Worldwide PC Decline

 

[Falhófnir]

Its great that Razer took a lesson of their previous designs (those GPUs were just too hot for their 15" chassis), so it looks like a very solid performer this time around. On the other hand, I am not sure how well a fairly niche gaming company represents the market trends (Razer's entire yearly sales revenue is 8% of Apple's one quarter Mac sales). Maybe we will see a resurgence of 17" gaming laptops, given that large gaming GPUs are in fashion again and powerful mobile CPUs are available.

I also have to say that I am surprised that many reviewers say that the 17" Razor Blade has dimensions of a 15" laptop... its 60% larger (volume-wise) than the 15" MBP and 50% heavier, while having a smaller battery. I'd at least expect them to pack a full-sized battery into that chassis...

It's not just this model, and not just gaming computers. LG released the Gram 17, there's increasingly a lot of competition in the 15" thin and light arena (HP, Microsoft, Asus, and lenovo have joined Dell and Apple here) loads of manufacturers are now adopting 14" displays, to the point they're as widely available as 13.3" - something which wasn't the case just a couple of years ago. It's a clear transition to more screen without more computer across the industry, and Apple's lineup is looking really unbalanced by comparison. You've got all the choice in the world if you want a 13.3" ultrabook - outside of that, not so much. I don't doubt they will start to follow suit, probably starting with this new 16" model, but they're lagging behind again. I really think there should be a 15" Air, and the smaller Pro should go 14" (something many are expecting but which hasn't been solidly rumoured as yet).

 

[howareyoukk]

Another larger laptop just released - refreshed 17" Razer blade pro (now very reminiscent of a 17" MBP) and Apple's awkward lineup heavily skewed towards tiny 13" or smaller models starts to look even more archaic. It's like the iPhone 5s in 2013, sure keep some options around at that size for those who want it but surely they clearly see the popularity of larger screen sizes? Where's the 15" MacBook Air? Where's the 14" MacBook Pro?

yeah i got excited last night when reading the news of the newly released blade pro. I am actually considering of getting one if apple doesnt release a larger screen macbook pro but then i am concerned of Razer products' quality and customer support.

 

[pshufd]

Looks that way.

I really don't think a 17-inch gaming laptop is representative of either the mass market or the market Apple is interested in. They might do a larger laptop again, but if they do, it won't be because of Razor.

Apple is supporting gaming on mobile devices; why not on their PCs?

But a gaming laptop would be nice as it could be used for a lot of other things that run the CPU/GPU hard. Trading, development, video editing would all benefit from gaming thickness and airflow.

 

[09872738]

Mac Shipments Down in Q1 2019 Amid Worldwide PC Decline
View attachment 833512

And this despite the fact that the new models introduced in fall should have made at least some sort of impact. Apparently it didn't really and the next couple of months will be interesting in that regard.

 

[Burstl]

And this despite the fact that the new models introduced in fall should have made at least some sort of impact. Apparently it didn't really and the next couple of months will be interesting in that regard.

Es is afoch ois vü zteuer. Wer soi des um des göd kaufen?

 

[pshufd]

And this despite the fact that the new models introduced in fall should have made at least some sort of impact. Apparently it didn't really and the next couple of months will be interesting in that regard.

There seem to be a lot of people here and out in the real world that are pretty upset with 2016-2018. That may be enough to stifle growth. I imagine that many are in wait and see mode to see if Apple fixes their problems. I was going to buy an iMac 2019 but I've decided to see whether or not there are heat issues.

 

[09872738]

Es is afoch ois vü zteuer. Wer soi des um des göd kaufen?

Jo mei...

 

[leman]

Mac Shipments Down in Q1 2019 Amid Worldwide PC Decline
View attachment 833512

Well, Apple is releasing the Q2 statement (which is Gartner's Q1 apparently) next week, so we can see how accurate Gartner's estimate is. At any rate, Mac sales in the second half of 2018 were excellent.

 

[Queen6]

Its great that Razer took a lesson of their previous designs (those GPUs were just too hot for their 15" chassis), so it looks like a very solid performer this time around. On the other hand, I am not sure how well a fairly niche gaming company represents the market trends (Razer's entire yearly sales revenue is 8% of Apple's one quarter Mac sales). Maybe we will see a resurgence of 17" gaming laptops, given that large gaming GPUs are in fashion again and powerful mobile CPUs are available.

I also have to say that I am surprised that many reviewers say that the 17" Razor Blade has dimensions of a 15" laptop... its 60% larger (volume-wise) than the 15" MBP and 50% heavier, while having a smaller battery. I'd at least expect them to pack a full-sized battery into that chassis...

One's a notebook, one an ultrabook simple as that, one is designed with longevity off mains power supply in mind, the other performance on mains power supply, any comparison is simply not valid. The 17" Razer is indeed being close to a typical 15" gaming notebook. As is the Asus Zhephyrus S GX701 and the MSI Stealth GS75. What's capturing many an interest is the performance these notebooks offer given, their relatively small formfactor and the ability to re-role them to professional purpose, without undue compromise...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

One's a notebook, one an ultrabook simple as that, one is designed with longevity off mains power supply in mind, the other performance on mains power supply, any comparison is simply not valid. The 17" Razer is indeed being close to a typical 15" gaming notebook. As is the Asus Zhephyrus S GX701 and the MSI Stealth GS75. What's capturing many an interest is the performance these notebooks offer given, their relatively small formfactor and the ability to re-role them to professional purpose, without undue compromise...

Q-6

I think that the Razors are too thin on the 17 inch. I do like the Asus Mothership - it's definitely thick but not as thick as some of them and it's rectangular. Some of these have curved surfaces that I don't think would work well in a backpack. There is quite a bit more out there than I expected. Now if only Apple could make something a little thicker, say 3/5 to 1 inch with nice fans and call it a gaming laptop or a tradestation or something catchy that everyone could see themselves using.

 

[Queen6]

I think that the Razors are too thin on the 17 inch. I do like the Asus Mothership - it's definitely thick but not as thick as some of them and it's rectangular. Some of these have curved surfaces that I don't think would work well in a backpack. There is quite a bit more out there than I expected. Now if only Apple could make something a little thicker, say 3/5 to 1 inch with nice fans and call it a gaming laptop or a tradestation or something catchy that everyone could see themselves using.

2019 Razerblade is only up to i7 I believe which makes sense given the power and cooling requirements of the i9, nor are the 8th/9th Gen i7's a slouch by any means in a chassis actually designed for them...

i7 8750H

ROG Mothership is more akin to a portable desktop and similar to the ROG G703 and MSI Titan it requires a pair of power supplies which kills it's portability. As for Apple too much of a "machine" these days, it's metrics dictate skinny 13" ultrabook's as that's what sells little else, innovation more importantly imagination are all but gone...

I travel with two notebooks; a 17.3" primary for heavy lifting and a passively cooled 12" for day to day on the go. I find Apple to be uninspiring these days and not being locked into the OS relegates the Mac to the past, where arguably Apple also thinks it should be...

Q-6

 

[richinaus]

I think that the Razors are too thin on the 17 inch. I do like the Asus Mothership - it's definitely thick but not as thick as some of them and it's rectangular. Some of these have curved surfaces that I don't think would work well in a backpack. There is quite a bit more out there than I expected. Now if only Apple could make something a little thicker, say 3/5 to 1 inch with nice fans and call it a gaming laptop or a tradestation or something catchy that everyone could see themselves using.

I couldn’t, and neither would the majority of their customers I doubt. What you and a few others seem to want is not what everyone wants. If they did, Apple wouldn’t s

2019 Razerblade is only up to i7 I believe which makes sense given the power and cooling requirements of the i9, nor are the 8th/9th Gen i7's a slouch by any means in a chassis actually designed for them...
View attachment 833727
i7 8750H

ROG Mothership is more akin to a portable desktop and similar to the ROG G703 and MSI Titan it requires a pair of power supplies which kills it's portability. As for Apple too much of a "machine" these days, it's metrics dictate skinny 13" ultrabook's as that's what sells little else, innovation more importantly imagination are all but gone...

I travel with two notebooks; a 17.3" primary for heavy lifting and a passively cooled 12" for day to day on the go. I find Apple to be uninspiring these days and not being locked into the OS relegates the Mac to the past, where arguably Apple also thinks it should be...

Q-6

So the Macbookpro does not fit your needs so they are in the past? Bizarre post for me. It is more than obvious your needs differ to what they make, but that doesn’t mean it is not right for a lot of other people.