AT&T Considering Halting All Samsung Galaxy Note 7 Sales and Replacements

[Technarchy]

From a liability perspective, AT&T would be smart to stop selling the Note 7.

I called it when the first reports of Note 7 issues appeared. Wouldn't take long before it was no longer economically viable.

Great phone with awesome feature set. Handset of the year easily. All undone because of inadequate testing, and being rushed to market to beat Apple's iPhone 7 release.

Hopefully Samsung has learned a valuable lesson and will come back stronger next year.

 

[macfacts]

A professional testing company? The branch of SGS tested the phone was one of the former Samsung's R&D facilities. Samsung sold the division to SGS but employees and facilities are still located in Samsung campus. Isn't it funny?

If you want to say Samsung rigged the test, then say that.

If you want to laugh at funny thins then laugh at how it was theVerge that broke this story and how the chief editor there works for Apple.

 

[BlueMoon63]

Forgive me, but that interests me, why saltwater? Wouldn't water do the trick?

I wonder on this as well... Saltwater contains minerals that are conductive and that might be what disperses the charge while the water would put out any fire. You wouldn't ever see saltwater used as a regular extinguisher of fires because it destroys the equipment that would be used to hold the water.

 

[Technarchy]

As Milton Friedman once opined, how much extra should a company spend to make sure their product never produces harm? $1? $1000? $1,000,000? This isn't necessarily greed - it's economic reality. Even governments are forced to place a dollar value on a human being's life, otherwise it becomes untenable to ever deliver a product or service to people. I'm not going to claim that Samsung's specific decisions with the Note 7 were reasonable in this regard. Just trying to inject some reality into your thinking. Here's a video of Milton Friedman explaining this concept:

Milton Friedman failed to properly address Michael Moore's question. Is a $13 part > Human life, and the correct answer is hell no. Absolutely not.

More importantly, who knew Michael Moore was ever that thin.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Karma....

 

[normanfox]

to those who complain that Apple is slow of releasing new features and that Samsung is first on new tech, this is why.

 

[magbarn]

Let's hope that the epidemic doesn't spread to Apple. They all have similar battery tech:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/10/07/iphone-6-plus-fire-explosion/

How much is that from a defective battery or was it possibly from physical damage from 'bend gate' ? lion don't like to be bent. Most of us who still have 6+ their phones are already 2 years old. I'd blame user error as if the batteries were defective they should've already blown up.

 

[BlueMoon63]

I think the saddest part about these battery problems with Samsung is the rush to always put out a product before Apple. They know when Apple will have their next big presentation and it is common for Samsung to come out with their new products days/weeks before Apple's presentation. Sooner or later, you can get to a point that a product is not fully tested in QA before it is released. If this is a newer battery that is bigger so they can say their phones last longer than apple, that can be something that needs to be tested longer. We will never know though.

I feel for Samsung and would never wish this on any company because it could eventually impact jobs. I am not a fan of Samsung and I understand why they get bashed here... 1) it's an Apple Site and 2) Whenever Apple has bad news, the Samsung fans and Apple haters come out in full force. You will see a post saying "Tim Cook Sucks" or "Apple Sucks" and you will get 50-100 likes. So very sad...

 

[gnasher729]

ALL MANUFACTURERS: ENCASE ALL BATTERY PACKS NOT IN THIN PLASTICS BUT IN A MATERIAL THAT PREVENTS A FAULTY DECOMPOSING BATTERY FROM ESCAPING THE DEVICE AND TURNING INTO A FIRE.

I kept it in large and bold because it is just such nonsense. Packaged in thin plastic it turns to fire. Packaged in something highly stable it turns into a bomb. That's the basic design of a bomb: Lots of energy packed into a stable case that is stable enough to hold the energy for a long time until it explodes. You'd need a substantial amount of high quality steel to stop it from escaping, and that steel would get so hot that you have a fire again.

The way to build safe batteries is to build no faulty ones that are faulty in a way where they can be charged and deliver their energy much faster thatn they should.

Try applying this to a car. Can you imagine what it would take to keep a burning forty litre petrol tank from exploding?

 

[magbarn]

Forgive me, but that interests me, why saltwater? Wouldn't water do the trick?

The theory is that the saltwater would speed up the short circuiting of the cells to quickly drain the remaining battery charge.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

as someone who used to work for the TSA, it is nearly impossible for us to stop phones from entering an aircraft. almost everyone travels with a phone and we can't search every bag to see if they have a note 7.

all cell phones look similar on an x-ray image.

That is true, yet it's far from impossible. A ban just needs to be enforced. So smartphones will have to be put into the bin separately just like laptops and tablets. During Booking/Check-In the customer has to select check-box (or at the desk orally confirm) that he realizes Note 7 is banned entirely on the aircraft. (Lithium devices in checked baggage are forbidden anyway.) The briefed TSA agent then just visually checks the phones. If the aviation industry can't enforce a ban on a smartphone, I'm afraid, I'll have to question if we can trust airport security to actually deliver... well... security (or in that case safety).
Furthermore, authorities have to enforce a sales ban on the device and require Samsung to take back the device for a full cash refund as it obviously doesn't conform to standards.

 

[gnasher729]

Well something more durable than thin plastics that at least attempts to contain the battery reaction -- ceramic?

Congratulations. Ceramics that at least try to contain the battery reaction, until it explodes, with thousands of tiny, sharp, high speed ceramics pieces flying everywhere. You might as well detonate a nail bomb. You don't want to contain this. You want it to fizzle out instead of exploding.

Yep, boil it down to making a pipe bomb. Absurd interpretation of what I'm suggesting.

I'd rather a device that expands into a ball instead of catching on fire.

The Analog Kid didn't interpret what you suggested. He wrote down what will happen if anyone was mad enough to follow your suggestions.

 

[jerry16]

Had the plane been in the air that would have been quite scary indeed.

Dumb to even let these phones on planes given the risk. Simply not worth it.

What about snakes on a plane?

Worse than Snakes on a Plane??

No, it can't get any worse….. unless the upcoming Samsung Galaxy Note 8 releases snakes on a plane.

Hadn't considered snakes yet. That's certainly right up there.

 

[Analog Kid]

Yep, boil it down to making a pipe bomb. Absurd interpretation of what I'm suggesting.

I'd rather a device that expands into a ball instead of catching on fire.

I don't think its absurd to point out what's going to happen if you encase a battery in a "ceramic containment", but I do think you don't really understand what's happening when a lithium battery goes into thermal runaway.

First "non-flimsy" ceramic isn't known for inflating into balls, so you're kind of moving the goal posts there.

Second, in many cases, you have hydrogen, methane and other combustibles in the presence of oxygen at over 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. If there's oxygen, heat and fuel, there's going to be be a fire either inside or outside your containment.

So lets say we come up with material that we can wrap this with and which is capable of expanding into a ball. Lets say that ball can grow to the size of a 2 liter coke bottle. Remember your ideal gas law: PV=nRT.

According to that paper above, you're going to get something between 0.2 and 0.4 mol of gas produced for a battery of the capacity of the Note 7-- let's call it 0.3 mol. T is 850C+273=1123 Kelvin. V is 2 liters. R is 0.08206 L*atm/(mol*K).

Doing the math, you'll wind up with an 2 liter balloon straining to contain over 200psi of pressure. Oh, and the entire inner surface is 850 degrees celsius even before your hydrogen and methane burn.

That's not reducing your argument, it's annotating it. Now, if you can find me a material that can expand to that volume, hold that much pressure, provide insulation to contain the heat, and that you can pack into your smart phone, then this might be a good plan.

 

[gnasher729]

You do know there are airports between point A and B on your 6 hour flight right?

Problem if you fly New York - Paris or Los Angeles - Honolulu.

On the other hand, if a phone in the hands of a passenger catches fire, I'd expect that to be very frightening, possibly some bad injury to a passenger or two, but I wouldn't think it would put the whole airplane into serious danger. I hope I'm right.

 

[jayducharme]

How much is that from a defective battery or was it possibly from physical damage from 'bend gate' ? lion don't like to be bent. Most of us who still have 6+ their phones are already 2 years old. I'd blame user error as if the batteries were defective they should've already blown up.

I discounted one of the reports because that user actually did break the phone before it went up in flames. But in this case, the phone didn't appear to have been abused.

 

[gnasher729]

It's the lawsuit that caused many Apple fanatics to hate Samsung. Like I said before, it's like some weird Us vs Them Manson like mind control.

Nonsense. The lawsuit was not the cause of any Apple fan hating Samsung. Building a phone that was indistinguishable from an iPhone 3GS was a start. Making a tablet that a Samsung lawyer in court couldn't keep apart from and iPad. Finding a 130 page book with suggested changes to make the Samsung software look more like Apple's software. The creepy watch adverts showing a stalker going after a girl. Adverts that openly attack not Apple, but Apple's customers. Getting threatened by the EU with a €13 billion fine for patent trolling. Using the same "copy, get sued, then countersue" strategy against manufacturers like Dyson. Having their CEO convicted for tax evasion and then pardoned because Samsung is so important for the Korean economy.

No, it doesn't need an Apple lawsuit to trigger disgust and hatred against Samsung and their business strategies.

 

[BootsWalking]

Milton Friedman failed to properly address Michael Moore's question. Is a $13 part > Human life, and the correct answer is hell no. Absolutely not.

More importantly, who knew Michael Moore was ever that thin.

It's not Michael Moore - just a young student who looked like him. And the point Milton was making is that the student wasn't arguing whether Ford should have taken action to avoid people from dying but instead arguing at what price that action is considered reasonable.

 

[Black Magic]

You must not run a company, or you did...one time...but never again.

Valid point. Just a theory I came up with on the fly to garner and maintain customer loyalty. Probably reckless but in a forum where the only consequence for sharing a thought is a written tongue lashing from a random human, I think I will be ok.

 

[manu chao]

Guess we should also ban automobiles as well since 33,000 Americans are killed by automobiles (not the people who drive them but the automobile itself is killing folks), you know like the guns are, not the people behind them.

There is the tiny difference that banning guns affects much, much less people than banning cars. You have to weigh benefits against risks. And there are many graduations between a complete ban and complete liberty. Car safety is heavily regulated, there is registration for car ownership and insurance.

 

[SockRolid]

... which has reignited fears about Samsung devices.

I see what you did there.
[doublepost=1475955153][/doublepost]

I wonder if airlines have a tub of cold saltwater to throw the phones in when they catch fire. ...

Airlines should tell Samsung phone owners to throw them into salt water when they get on the plane.
Waterproof? We'll see. Dunk them in the salt water bath.
Fireproof? Not so much.

 

[teflonthadon]

just when you thought it couldn't get worse.. really doesn't get much worse than a fire on an airplane

Sure beats "snakes on a plane "

 

[calzon65]

I wish the Galaxy 7 didn't have these problems, not because I want a Galaxy 7 (I like my iPhone & iPad and I love IOS) but because I want there to be a credible competitor to Apple's so there is competitive pressure to always innovate.

 

[McCool71]

I just done a research, iPhone 4, 4S, 5, 5s, SE, 6, 6S, and iPhone 7 doesn't work well with Virtual Reality. Tell me..why would I buy an iPhone 7 over a Samsung Galaxy S7? When Apple doesn't even care about their own costumers, if they did..they would've provide better VR experience for iPhone 7 4.7 users, because Apple's partners like Carl Zeisz VR One sucks!
Tim Cook said that VR is a gimmicky product. let's hope Tim doesn't say sex it's bad, because most of you..will stop having sex!

This is a good point. I have let several of my ''Apple only'' friends try out the Gear VR. And every single one said more or less the same two things afterwards:

1) This is very very cool.
2) Why doesn't Apple have something like this?

 

[smacrumon]

I kept it in large and bold because it is just such nonsense. Packaged in thin plastic it turns to fire. Packaged in something highly stable it turns into a bomb. That's the basic design of a bomb: Lots of energy packed into a stable case that is stable enough to hold the energy for a long time until it explodes. You'd need a substantial amount of high quality steel to stop it from escaping, and that steel would get so hot that you have a fire again.

The way to build safe batteries is to build no faulty ones that are faulty in a way where they can be charged and deliver their energy much faster thatn they should.

Try applying this to a car. Can you imagine what it would take to keep a burning forty litre petrol tank from exploding?

Your extremes... from fire to bomb... right... I never said anything about metal containment, I suggested ceramic as a fire retardant, whether fibres or similar. Try solid state batteries.
[doublepost=1475956753][/doublepost]

Congratulations. Ceramics that at least try to contain the battery reaction, until it explodes, with thousands of tiny, sharp, high speed ceramics pieces flying everywhere. You might as well detonate a nail bomb. You don't want to contain this. You want it to fizzle out instead of exploding.



The Analog Kid didn't interpret what you suggested. He wrote down what will happen if anyone was mad enough to follow your suggestions.

See above. Ceramic as a fire retardant, whether fibres or similar.

Ha. You must be kidding! Your quote: "You want it to fizzle out instead of exploding."

How about you never want it to occur in the first place!!! Solid state batteries for the win.

[doublepost=1475957010][/doublepost]

I don't think its absurd to point out what's going to happen if you encase a battery in a "ceramic containment", but I do think you don't really understand what's happening when a lithium battery goes into thermal runaway.

First "non-flimsy" ceramic isn't known for inflating into balls, so you're kind of moving the goal posts there.

Second, in many cases, you have hydrogen, methane and other combustibles in the presence of oxygen at over 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. If there's oxygen, heat and fuel, there's going to be be a fire either inside or outside your containment.

So lets say we come up with material that we can wrap this with and which is capable of expanding into a ball. Lets say that ball can grow to the size of a 2 liter coke bottle. Remember your ideal gas law: PV=nRT.

According to that paper above, you're going to get something between 0.2 and 0.4 mol of gas produced for a battery of the capacity of the Note 7-- let's call it 0.3 mol. T is 850C+273=1123 Kelvin. V is 2 liters. R is 0.08206 L*atm/(mol*K).

Doing the math, you'll wind up with an 2 liter balloon straining to contain over 200psi of pressure. Oh, and the entire inner surface is 850 degrees celsius even before your hydrogen and methane burn.

That's not reducing your argument, it's annotating it. Now, if you can find me a material that can expand to that volume, hold that much pressure, provide insulation to contain the heat, and that you can pack into your smart phone, then this might be a good plan.

I'm aware of thermal runaway, that's why solid state batteries are better. I'm not talking about a ceramic pots. Ceramic as a fire retardant, whether fibres or similar.