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Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

BruceEBonus said:
How the UK would have done it ...

When the officers first arrive they will make an immediate assessment. If an armed containment is deemed necessary to isolate an armed suspect from the public, then two of the crew will deploy leaving one to control the incident, calling for further armed support and liaising with the local senior police officer. All these officers are personally armed with 'Glock' 17 self-loading pistols and two of the officers have access to 'Heckler and Koch' MP5 carbines.
_______________________________________________________
How America dealt with it ...

"Hey buddy ... step away from the window .. or I'll shoot you in the .. *BANG! BANG! BANG!* ... head"

"Paul Blart ... at your service, Sir!"

________________________________________________________

Scary, huh?

'Nuff said!
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That is an idiotic post considering the facts as they are currently being reported.

When a person pulls a gun on a security guard or police officer they are immediately a threat to that guard/officer and anyone else around them. In this case, it appears the suspects fired first (and a lot of times as well), so I don't think that the guard just walked up and put the gun to the guy's head and pulled the trigger.

Reading is fundamental, maybe we should get you hooked on phonics...
 
AppleScruff1 said:
I've never seen a mall security guard carrying a gun.
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welcome to la...they tote guns in whole foods, malls...but at least it's not concealed guns heaven, which somehow always frightens me a bit, seeing how easily people get jacked up and go beserk :eek:over nothing already...:eek:
 
rtkane said:
I hate to belabor the point, but properly used, firearms will stop, not kill. Police are not trained to kill--they are trained to stop. Death may be a result or only a wound, but killing is not what they're taught at the academy.
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You, I and every police officer in the world knows precisely what generally happens when you shoot a suspect multiple times in the chest. Semantic niceties that avoid directly using terms like "kill" and "death" do not in any way reduce the lethality of a firearm.

Call it "incapacitation", "stopping" or whatever you like - it's still also called "lethal force" by every police force and there is no doubt over the intention or effects.
 
Glad the scumbag is dead.

No one can say the guard wanted them dead unless that guard tells you himself.

Robbers pointed a gun at him, he stopped them from pointing a gun at him.

Until that happens to you (as it has to me 3 times), you're just an academic.

The details are not out. The robber may have started shooting first. May have been shot before fleeing, but succumbed moments later.

Armed robbers in my opinion should suffer the greatest price for trying to take a life, which he did when he pulled that trigger.

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/ks...g-at-shopping-center-20110404,0,4434605.story
 
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I wonder if the guard used the i1911 made by Saber Defense? They are after all Apple's most recent acquisition to help them gain a foothold in government sales? Link

:rolleyes:;)
 
Ace R. said:
ITT:

People do not READ. It was self defense. Those robbers were BLASTING. 40 rounds exchanged.

Sucks someone had to die but that's the price you pay when you decide to commit a crime and use deadly force.. aka we're going to rob the Apple store and if anyone tries to stop us we're shooting.

I'm just glad the security guard survived this ordeal. Imagine if the headline read "Security guard dead in Apple store robbery"

This could easily of been the case.
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"People do not READ" ... EXACTLY ... look at many of these 500 posts, speculating, pointing fingers .... read the freaking link first people!!!
 
BruceEBonus said:
How the UK would have done it ...

When the officers first arrive they will make an immediate assessment. If an armed containment is deemed necessary to isolate an armed suspect from the public, then two of the crew will deploy leaving one to control the incident, calling for further armed support and liaising with the local senior police officer. All these officers are personally armed with 'Glock' 17 self-loading pistols and two of the officers have access to 'Heckler and Koch' MP5 carbines.
_______________________________________________________
How America dealt with it ...

"Hey buddy ... step away from the window .. or I'll shoot you in the .. *BANG! BANG! BANG!* ... head"

"Paul Blart ... at your service, Sir!"

________________________________________________________

Scary, huh?

'Nuff said!
Click to expand...

How Britain dealt with it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10500315
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/nov/19/ukguns.topstories3

Please don't say that we deal with gun crime better just because less officers have access to guns.

Especially on the 2nd one - she was the first responder making an assessment and was shot with no way to defend herself.
 
Geckotek said:
Yeah, because crime and wars didn't exist before guns.

Someone is extremely naive.
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Extremely Naive? It must be you, as before guns people were using swords, daggers, sabers, and other hand-to-hand weapons.
That's how wars were fought before guns were invented.
Maybe you slept through history class.
 
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BruceEBonus said:
How the UK would have done it ...

When the officers first arrive they will make an immediate assessment. If an armed containment is deemed necessary to isolate an armed suspect from the public, then two of the crew will deploy leaving one to control the incident, calling for further armed support and liaising with the local senior police officer. All these officers are personally armed with 'Glock' 17 self-loading pistols and two of the officers have access to 'Heckler and Koch' MP5 carbines.
_______________________________________________________
How America dealt with it ...

"Hey buddy ... step away from the window .. or I'll shoot you in the .. *BANG! BANG! BANG!* ... head"

"Paul Blart ... at your service, Sir!"

________________________________________________________

Scary, huh?

'Nuff said!
Click to expand...

And by the time your tactical forces team assembled your guard would have been dead. The robbers would have escaped and who knows how long it would take to be brought to justice. There is a time for precision and there is a time to save your own life. The guy was a retired sheriffs deputy working as security guard not a backwoods inbred hillbilly trying to play call of duty in real life.
 
Man the MR community never ceases to amaze me. Only you guys would have sympathy for an armed gunman who opened fire and ended up getting killed by a security guard.

I mean, i'm in serious disbelief right now. That's pretty incredible; it doesn't happen often.

I bet if these thugs ran up in your house and starting attacking your SO or your child and you were upstairs with an assortment of guns, knives and other good striking objects you'd probably just cower in the closet and say "maybe if I stay quiet they'll let me live".
 
ctdonath said:
U.S. Department of Justice study http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles/165476.pdf estimates 1.5 million defensive uses annually. Numbers seem to vary from 0.8M to 3.0M depending on how you squint at things. Consensus is that the numbers are large, most of the time just displaying the thing is enough to stop the attack, and you have to actually have one to be able to display it.
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The lower number referenced is 108,000 but that is for slightly different definitions than the survey they performed.

One lady who responded to the survey reported 52 defensive uses. That is one high crime area she must live in.

Thanks for posting the link.
 
MCroft said:
From Trepanator's post (#392) emphasis mine:

If there was another exchange of gunfire, that may address your point. Or not. He might have initiated the second exchange. See above.
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There wouldn't necessarily have been a "second" exchange. I've actually been to this shopping center, it's sort of designed like an outdoor street with sidewalks where cars actually drive down through the center of the "mall." Never really made any sense to me because it makes the area less walkable.

According to the report, the car was probably idling 10-15 feet from the front of the Apple Store when the exchange occurred. You can see the street curb in the picture MacRumors posted. It's not like the guard had to chase them hundreds of yards to a getaway vehicle.

123733-otay_ranch_store.jpg
 
rdrr said:
Again the first rule of a gun is, never point them at another person unless you are prepared to take their life. There is no such thing as winging a person, that is for movies and for people who don't know how to use a weapon.
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Totally agree--you pull out a gun and aim it at someone means you are willing to potentially take their life. I edited my post to say that it won't necessarily kill (basically death isn't a required outcome for a police officer to be successful or that they shoot to kill).

I've had to draw on people twice and each time I knew what the potential outcome might be. I've fortunately never had to actually fire--but I know cops (and other military folks) who have and end up killing someone. All of you desk chair cowboys that have this sense of bravado about killing someone and that it shouldn't be an impact on the person because they "were bad and deserved it" are wrong. Killing someone takes a huge toll on you. I've seen it happen to people. I've seen them have to go into counseling because of it and how it affects them long term.
 
iStudentUK said:
I just can't understand this view. It is quite bizarre to me.

I try to be better than that- Give them a trial, put them in prison and try to balance punishment and rehabilitation. Hoping for their death isn't progress and is bringing yourself down closer to their level.
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The world has enough people where I don't see the point in spending effort on these people.
 
gnasher729 said:
An unarmed security guard who keeps some stupid people from causing trouble and makes everyone feel safe is worth his money.
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And an unarmed security guard who can't do anything when some stupid people start killing customers isn't.
 
It's also a possibility that the guard wasn't aiming for the head and amidst the chaos shot a round that happened to hit the head. Sad how it went down but armed robbery is never a good choice.
 
Eddyisgreat said:
Man the MR community never ceases to amaze me. Only you guys would have sympathy for an armed gunman who opened fire and ended up getting killed by a security guard.

I mean, i'm in serious disbelief right now. That's pretty incredible; it doesn't happen often.

I bet if these thugs ran up in your house and starting attacking your SO or your child and you were upstairs with an assortment of guns, knives and other good striking objects you'd probably just cower in the closet and say "maybe if I stay quiet they'll let me live".
Click to expand...

A couple of people have expressed sympathy for the deceased's family. This hardly constituties the "MR community".

On the other hand, scores of people on this thread can hardly contain their joy at the fact that someone was shot and killed in a firefight during a robbery. People are posting smilies and vapid one-liners from video games and movies about shooting people, as if it's all a big game. And yet that part doesn't seem to bother you one bit. :confused:
 
Bluefusion said:
Rent-a-cops have guns? And shoot people IN THE HEAD? I'm amazed.

That said, this is pretty ******. Sure, the guy was a criminal lowlife, and he certainly deserved punishment, but I don't think he deserved to get killed. Oh well.
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He absolutely got what he deserved.
 
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