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Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

Justified reference:

Bad guy pulled first.

Seriously, you jerk a pistol and start shooting at an armed guard in a botched robbery and you get what you get. Give the accomplices a felony murder beef for the deader and put 'em away for life. Case closed.
 
Trepanator said:
There wouldn't necessarily have been a "second" exchange. I've actually been to this shopping center, it's sort of designed like an outdoor street with sidewalks where cars actually drive down through the center of the "mall." Never really made any sense to me because it makes the area less walkable.

According to the report, the car was probably idling 10-15 feet from the front of the Apple Store when the exchange occurred. You can see the street curb in the picture MacRumors posted. It's not like the guard had to chase them hundreds of yards to a getaway vehicle.
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Yeah, I am still unclear on the details. I assumed there was a second exchange (which might be just a continuation of the first) from the quote from the police chief in your earlier post. "'They had another handgun in the car and there was another exchange of gunfire,' Bejarano disclosed."

It could also have been a continuous exchange, but the information that there was gunfire from the car is relevant to questions about the propriety of shooting the fleeing driver.
 
pjarvi said:
Isn't better to aim at the chest to avoid the chances of missing (larger target area)? Anyways, this news post made me very happy, I wish more criminals were killed rather than wasting tax payer money in courts and prisons. Hopefully, the guard gets treated as the hero he is and not charged with any crap like "excessive force".
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Yes.

It has prolly has been posted below, but...

Police and armed security are trained to shoot center-mass. This is not just some fancy term. Most shots don't hit the target... you need to increase your chances of hitting the bad guy. Center-mass is the torso. You don't aim for their gun or their leg or you are further risking your life and the lives of others.

Of course that force is deadly. If the person hit happens to die that's incidental. There is no alternative. It is VERY common for cops and others in this situation to have their lives irrevocably changed for the worse when killing someone justifiably.

They are usually messed up in the head for a very long time. They get sued by the family and have to mortgage their home, etc. It is not a fun macho situation to be in. You are not treated as a hero with your chest all puffed out. You are reduced to a bundle of uncertainty and PTSD.
 
What kind of idiot mall cop would get into a shootout with a robber and put the lives of civilians at risk? Guess that’s why he's a security guard and not a police officer.

Thank God nobody got killed.... oh wait.
 
MCroft said:
the information that there was gunfire from the car is relevant to questions about the propriety of shooting the fleeing driver.
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Seems the guard was an off-duty/retired sheriff. On duty, they're allowed to shoot fleeing felons. Under the circumstances, he wasn't contemplating whether his off-duty/retired status applied or not. At worst case he was just acting out his legitimate training.
 
Chopper9 said:
What kind of idiot mall cop would get into a shootout with a robber and put the lives of civilians at risk? Guess that’s why he's a security guard and not a police officer.

Thank God nobody got killed.
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Read the report... It happened before the store had opened for business.
 
Chopper9 said:
What kind of idiot mall cop would get into a shootout with a robber and put the lives of civilians at risk?
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Um, that would be an off-duty/retired sheriff whose life was threatened, if not actively shot at, by an armed robber obviously willing to put the lives of civilians at risk to make off with his high-dollar-density loot.
 
Chopper9 said:
What kind of idiot mall cop would get into a shootout with a robber and put the lives of civilians at risk? Guess that’s why he's a security guard and not a police officer.

Thank God nobody got killed.
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How can you blame the guard for this? Bad guys start shooting at him. He proceeds to defend himself.

And don't reduce this human life to "mall cop". He's a man.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
A couple of people have expressed sympathy for the deceased's family. This hardly constituties the "MR community".

On the other hand, scores of people on this thread can hardly contain their joy at the fact that someone was shot and killed in a firefight during a robbery. People are posting smilies and vapid one-liners from video games and movies about shooting people, as if it's all a big game. And yet that part doesn't seem to bother you one bit. :confused:
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People enjoy violent stuff as long as it won't harm them in anyway, where have you been for the last 5000 years?
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Lord Blackadder said:
macquariumguy said:
What's not to celebrate? The good guys won and there is one less evil person in the world.
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That's an oversimplification if I ever heard one.

A store is smashed up, a person is dead, two are in prison, a guard just narrowly avoided being killed. While the criminals may have ultimately been stopped this is hardly something to celebrate over. This isn't a movie, comic book or video game. Yet some of the people posting here are filled with glee over this.
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Glee might not be the right word extremely happy would be a better phrase. In any event you needs to realize some people are born defective and it is in societies best interest that their lives remain short. The liberal mind set is to work against common sense in this manner as has been seen in numerous posts in this thread.
 
Amazing Iceman said:
Extremely Naive? It must be you, as before guns people were using swords, daggers, sabers, and other hand-to-hand weapons.
That's how wars were fought before guns were invented.
Maybe you slept through history class.
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Your sarcasm detection module has failed.
 
8CoreWhore said:
How can you blame the guard for this? He shows up at a smashed window and bad guys start shooting at him. He proceeds to defend himself.
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Because with some people, the "authority figure" is always the bad guy.

Security guard kills armed criminal, the security guard went overboard. Security guard loses.

Criminal kills security guard, the security guard was incompetent. Security guard loses.

Criminal kills store manager, where the h*ll was the security guard??? Security guard loses.

These people will never understand. Until they, or one of their loved ones, is gunned down by some thug. It's easy to speak from a place of moral superiority when you have nothing at stake.
 
bamf said:
That is an idiotic post considering the facts as they are currently being reported.

When a person pulls a gun on a security guard or police officer they are immediately a threat to that guard/officer and anyone else around them. In this case, it appears the suspects fired first (and a lot of times as well), so I don't think that the guard just walked up and put the gun to the guy's head and pulled the trigger.

Reading is fundamental, maybe we should get you hooked on phonics...
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"Hooked on phonics"

Oh the irony, readers ....

Guns breed guns ... fact.

Actions have spoken .... :(
 
Lord Blackadder said:
A couple of people have expressed sympathy for the deceased's family. This hardly constituties the "MR community".

On the other hand, scores of people on this thread can hardly contain their joy at the fact that someone was shot and killed in a firefight during a robbery. People are posting smilies and vapid one-liners from video games and movies about shooting people, as if it's all a big game. And yet that part doesn't seem to bother you one bit. :confused:
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People are joyed at the outcome relative to what it could have been - dead innocents. The real question is: why aren't you happy the good guys didn't die?

Some people know what it's like to live in fear of dangerous criminals, and see the news every day of these criminals killing and maiming people in our communities. If you live in some sleepy place where nothing like this happens you are merely engaging in cafe philosophy not grounded in reality.

Twice here in sunny San Diego I've had my life hang in the balance. Once armed robbery and the other I had a gun put in my face by a guy showing off in front of his friends. And I've been robbed at gun point in NYC when I was 14.

I want all three of those terrorists dead, dead, dead.
 
8CoreWhore said:
And don't reduce this human life to "mall cop". He's a man.
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So is the deceased robber. Some people in this thread seem to consider making that distinction as tantamount to "sympathy" with criminals or criminal activity, when it is merely pointing out fact. Everyone involved was human. One of them is dead, several others could very well have been.

8CoreWhore said:
People are joyed at the outcome relative to what it could have been - dead innocents.
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That is not at all what some people are saying. Since when does calling people "subhuman" or chiming in with "One Shot, One Kill" have anything to do with sentiments of relief over innocent people? Sounds more like chest-beating to me.

8CoreWhore said:
The real question is: why aren't you happy the good guys didn't die?
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I am? Please quote me if I said anything of the kind. Once again, you interpret distaste with killing as support for criminals and criminal behavior. I don't know why you're trying to characterize me this way.

8CoreWhore said:
Some people know what it's like to live in fear of dangerous criminals, and see the news every day of these criminals killing and maiming people in out communities. If you live in some sleep place where nothing like this happens you are merely engaging in cafe philosophy not grounded in reality.
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I don't need to prove some sort of "street cred" in order to have a valid opinion. All you're proving with this statement is that violence breeds further violence, which merely proves my point.
 
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I am amazed at the bleeding responses here.

In situations like this, guns serve a single purpose when used. To kill the other guy. In any training, shooting to wound is never taught. You shoot to kill. The head shot is probably a luck shot since you generally go for the big target area; the torso.

The assailants made their pact as soon as they started committing an armed robbery. The only reason they were armed with guns was to kill anyone that would get in their way. The only appropriate response was to shoot to kill.

It is sad that this event happened. That said, however, the security guard's (and yes there are many armed security guards in life) response was correct. A shot through the head is just as effective as one through the heart.
 
The robbers knew what they were getting into when they went there armed, turn the tables and what would y'all think if the guard had been killed just doing his job. They exchanged gunfire, the mans life was in danger... Personally I'm glad the low life will no longer be bringing up the crime statistics.
 
If you threaten someone with a weapon (with intent to cause fear, get your way, or kill [all in a non-defensive manor]) then you probably don't have much respect for life. If you actually attack or fire at someone with that weapon, then you definitely do not have respect for life. So if you are killed by someone defending themselves because you tried to kill them, oh well, too bad, sucks for you. That may sound hypocritical to say their life did not matter, but I respect my life enough to defend it against someone who doesn't care. IMHO.
 
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