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Audio Decoding KILLS MacPro (2009) green factor
- Thread starter handheldgames
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A big hats off to Chris. He was the first and continues to show real journalistic skill and integrity on this case.
[...]Perhaps I'll find out myself since someone at Apple Customer Relations has emailed me out of the blue today, asking about the status of the problem, what test's I've done, that he may be able to resolve" it", if I wish to "work" with him further. He seemed to know me from the ADB, but I sensed he knew more about me than that.
Anyway I agreed to "cooperate"
And the news is ...?
But you must admit Apple seems to have been quite successful at silencing discussion on this. Perhaps they didn't try to bribe you as you've obviously got principles!
Perhaps we can keep the ball in the air.
Think of some more media channels to pitch at.
Drill into the bug mechanism more.
Run a survey of user experience of preventive measures ...
Isn't it a matter of whether Apple as so deaf for 10 months (which seems unbelievable), or whether they thought to shove it under the carpet/get away with it.
To put everything on hold now because a couple of people outside Apple have mentioned the possibility that Apple is looking into the bug (having spoken to such as Irish PR people) ... this seems so vague.
Is it some sort of pride/brand image thing that keeps Apple from making a simple statement. The way they conduct themselves in this cloak&dagger style seems suboptimal.
CPU A getting hottest
I assume that waste air from the frontmost CPU cooler blows onto the rear one. Hence the discrepancy in temperatures (I see 14C).
I'd have thought there could be a little ducting to minimize this.
As any heat damage would be done to the hottest CPU, by not ducting front heat away, the threshold before heat trouble onset is reduced.
It will be interesting to see if there is a correlation with CPU failures and their location. Mine failure was the rear one (A).
I assume that waste air from the frontmost CPU cooler blows onto the rear one. Hence the discrepancy in temperatures (I see 14C).
I'd have thought there could be a little ducting to minimize this.
As any heat damage would be done to the hottest CPU, by not ducting front heat away, the threshold before heat trouble onset is reduced.
It will be interesting to see if there is a correlation with CPU failures and their location. Mine failure was the rear one (A).
It's hard not to assume that one reason for not getting this fixed is resources - developers are working on more important tasks (like getting the iPad ready). Combine this thought with the news that Apple is now a USD$50B company now. Doesn't that piss you off??? How could a company worth that much money have internal resource issues?
Tell you the truth I'm not in a position to benefit from a new Mac. Many Toyotas and I have a lot in common.
I'm not sure what kind of enticement is enough to stop me from talking about whatever it is they want me to.
Well, I observed an Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 DVD encode/export/burn just now, and it was interesting to see how much differently the MP behaved compared to just listening to audio on VLC.
CPU A diode temp rose to ~73 C, no fans...but then after a few minutes, the fan slowly built up to 4000RPM, and CPU A diode dropped to 60 C. I guess encoding is different than decoding, or something.
'09 MP 3.33GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI 4870, Apple RAID card, 10.6.2.
CPU A diode temp rose to ~73 C, no fans...but then after a few minutes, the fan slowly built up to 4000RPM, and CPU A diode dropped to 60 C. I guess encoding is different than decoding, or something.
'09 MP 3.33GHz, 16GB RAM, ATI 4870, Apple RAID card, 10.6.2.
Well I pulled the trigger on a new 09 (with Applecare) and it should arrive tomorrow. I'm really excited and I'm glad I finally made a decision. If a fix roles up within the next month that'd be great.
I guess i've been following this thread for a couple of months now and despite this glaring issue (not to mention the price), it wouldn't feel right if I didn't join the sinking ship
I guess i've been following this thread for a couple of months now and despite this glaring issue (not to mention the price), it wouldn't feel right if I didn't join the sinking ship
To Nanofrog
I'm thinking, not only why are you, but why you?
How are they picking the candidates?
I'm now engaged with Apple myself. A Customer Service Engineer said he wants me to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement so he can help me solve these issues. The reason, he said, and I don't know if "Darren" will appreciate seeing himself quoted here (but I believe he will see it here) is this. So now everyone will know what is being writing to a few people based on what criteria, I simply don't know. Loudest wheels maybe?
Here's the dealio:
So there ye have it. Trouble with me is that I would have trouble faxing out the NDA or even getting it printed to send. I asked if he would take another way, like my word. I'm waiting to hear. I would definitely like to see what they know and are doing about all this.
But I did preface my acceptance saying that if it curtailed me to some non-obvious degree from writing on various forums, then I would not agree.
Bottom line, I still think they are being tricky, but maybe they have a right to be. What I don't understand is what the people who sign the agreement become. Beta testers? For an issue that appears to be on it's way to being solved? They're having certain people put a fix though the works and report back?
Could be, it's not a bad way of doing it. Keeps the rest of us in the dark but if that meant a quicker fix in the long run then what can you say?
Ah, it's all pretty cool. No matter what, I detect movement in the underbrush...
I'm thinking, not only why are you, but why you?
How are they picking the candidates?
I'm now engaged with Apple myself. A Customer Service Engineer said he wants me to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement so he can help me solve these issues. The reason, he said, and I don't know if "Darren" will appreciate seeing himself quoted here (but I believe he will see it here) is this. So now everyone will know what is being writing to a few people based on what criteria, I simply don't know. Loudest wheels maybe?
Here's the dealio:
So there ye have it. Trouble with me is that I would have trouble faxing out the NDA or even getting it printed to send. I asked if he would take another way, like my word. I'm waiting to hear. I would definitely like to see what they know and are doing about all this.
But I did preface my acceptance saying that if it curtailed me to some non-obvious degree from writing on various forums, then I would not agree.
Bottom line, I still think they are being tricky, but maybe they have a right to be. What I don't understand is what the people who sign the agreement become. Beta testers? For an issue that appears to be on it's way to being solved? They're having certain people put a fix though the works and report back?
Could be, it's not a bad way of doing it. Keeps the rest of us in the dark but if that meant a quicker fix in the long run then what can you say?
Ah, it's all pretty cool. No matter what, I detect movement in the underbrush...
Well I pulled the trigger on a new 09 (with Applecare) and it should arrive tomorrow. I'm really excited and I'm glad I finally made a decision. If a fix roles up within the next month that'd be great.
I guess i've been following this thread for a couple of months now and despite this glaring issue (not to mention the price), it wouldn't feel right if I didn't join the sinking ship
Well done, existentially I admire that. Goes back to Mr. Deeds goes to Washington, "The lost causes are the only ones worth fighting for".
Thanks, brightened my day.
There's a simpler answer in my case: I don't have a MP any more. It went back as a return.
That's part of it, but I'd imagine it's also to do with recommendations from the legal dept., as any admission could come back to haunt them if a class action suit were to be filed against Apple.
Glad to hear it.
Yes. In some cases, such software is included in applications, and you might see a check box or something as to whether or not you want to participate in fault reporting (I see this under Windows applications on a regular basis).
The software they install generates logs that are transmitted back to Apple's engineers, so there's little to no personal interaction with the tester and engineering staff. The idea is to get data in a format the engineers can use, rather than having to decipher what they'd be told in a conversation (and it can offer more information as well).
Hopefully, users will see a fix soon, but '09 system owners will ultimately have to wait and see.Could be, it's not a bad way of doing it. Keeps the rest of us in the dark but if that meant a quicker fix in the long run then what can you say?
Ah, it's all pretty cool. No matter what, I detect movement in the underbrush...
I see the same thing on my setup- in fact I was surprised to hear there was even a problem because I never noticed anything- I use a MOTU PCI-424 PCIe card for audio (even for general "system sound" use). If i flip to internal speaker my CPU wattage immediately almost triples.
Are you kidding?
Wow. I must be totally oversimplifying. Is fixing this problem going to be this complicated for Apple. Beta testers, special software tools, non-disclosure agreements, secret communication with specially chosen customers, bribery, etc...? What? Huh? This just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
Cant Apple observe this condition on there lab machines? We've proven that its simple to reproduce the problem. Is it me, or has my thinking become uptight about all this?
Seems easy. Utilization of core audio (playing an mp3 file) = 40-50 Watt additional CPU power utilization, which of course results in increased heating and decreased performance. CPU load is not a factor. That by itself is grossly abnormal.
I have to vent...
I've been quietly following this thread and in the Apple Support topic since I purchased my box in September. I have read all of the posts more than once. As have many of you, I have logged my complaints with Apple; to no avail. I'm hoping with you all for a resolution soon, but this whole thing is starting to stick in my craw. What really kills me is that I have been dying to get a MP for the past few years. I'm coming from a PowerPC (Mirrored Drive Door Wind Tunnel) and currently have two Minis for the kids. Like many of you, my MP is a multimedia production box and I happen to LOVE to listen to music while I work. (Double whammy). And to add insult to injury, I spend a bunch at the iTunes music store every pay period and have a big library. ...and lets add premier Apple support Apple Care to the list of expenditures. My disappointment is turning to anger.
Wow. I must be totally oversimplifying. Is fixing this problem going to be this complicated for Apple. Beta testers, special software tools, non-disclosure agreements, secret communication with specially chosen customers, bribery, etc...? What? Huh? This just keeps getting more and more bizarre.
Cant Apple observe this condition on there lab machines? We've proven that its simple to reproduce the problem. Is it me, or has my thinking become uptight about all this?
Seems easy. Utilization of core audio (playing an mp3 file) = 40-50 Watt additional CPU power utilization, which of course results in increased heating and decreased performance. CPU load is not a factor. That by itself is grossly abnormal.
I have to vent...
I've been quietly following this thread and in the Apple Support topic since I purchased my box in September. I have read all of the posts more than once. As have many of you, I have logged my complaints with Apple; to no avail. I'm hoping with you all for a resolution soon, but this whole thing is starting to stick in my craw. What really kills me is that I have been dying to get a MP for the past few years. I'm coming from a PowerPC (Mirrored Drive Door Wind Tunnel) and currently have two Minis for the kids. Like many of you, my MP is a multimedia production box and I happen to LOVE to listen to music while I work. (Double whammy). And to add insult to injury, I spend a bunch at the iTunes music store every pay period and have a big library. ...and lets add premier Apple support Apple Care to the list of expenditures. My disappointment is turning to anger.
No4mk2, glad I could bring some happiness to your day!
Yes I'm aware. Sure it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but an 09 will serve my needs just fine. I really stood back from it all and realized I was waiting for a bunch of upgrades that in reality don't mean much more to me than model numbers.
I'm sure once the 2010 models grace Apple's online store, I'll have a moment of regret. I'm hoping however, that this feeling will quickly be erased with the brisk realisation of needing to resume work
Yes I'm aware. Sure it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but an 09 will serve my needs just fine. I really stood back from it all and realized I was waiting for a bunch of upgrades that in reality don't mean much more to me than model numbers.
I'm sure once the 2010 models grace Apple's online store, I'll have a moment of regret. I'm hoping however, that this feeling will quickly be erased with the brisk realisation of needing to resume work
I was going to hold out as well, but came to the exact same realization above...
I needed to work on one right now, and didn't see any real use for six cores, in my case. If anything, maybe my quad will blow up, and they'll replace it with the six! (hahaha, right.)
I needed to work on one right now, and didn't see any real use for six cores, in my case. If anything, maybe my quad will blow up, and they'll replace it with the six! (hahaha, right.)
end of a beginning
That,... or going to fax something in a snowstorm influenced my decision not to drink the kool-aid.
I received word today that if I won't sign the NDA I can't participate in whatever he and a few others here are, a fix. I wrote him back, "nanofrog;
Hopefully, users will see a fix soon, but '09 system owners will ultimately have to wait and see.
That,... or going to fax something in a snowstorm influenced my decision not to drink the kool-aid.
I know. I am just as frustrated as you are... big iTunes expense, big computer expense, and like to listen to music while working. I hope for all our sakes a fix is in the wings and coming soon.
I doubt bribery..., let's not get carried away. But the rest... all true basically from what I've heard and been involved in myself. It really is bizarre. Apple bizarre at that, meaning the same thing only double really.
But there's something else one might throw in the pot if they are feeling paranoid, which I have been lately. The person who contacted me used words and phrases I used in my posts here and ADP. He also seemed to have other info about me from other sources. Some from other times I contacted them way in the past. He even used the same obscure signature on his email that I did for a long time. Suggesting to me he just found an old email to there from me and used it to reply
What I'm trying to say, along with what you write about Apple above; beta testers and such, Apple may be researching and keeping track of certain people on these posting sites.
Impossible, or have I swung off the swings completely?
Anyway, I'm back in the masses now, more sure than ever that what started here and in Apple Discussions so long ago is finally coming to fruition. I think Apple is upset at us...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2228019&tstart=0&start=435
Talks about a stand alone fix (Firmware) and thats it's the hardware.
So it's not the software?
Talks about a stand alone fix (Firmware) and thats it's the hardware.
So it's not the software?
No4mk2, glad I could bring some happiness to your day!
Yes I'm aware. Sure it's nice to have the latest and greatest, but an 09 will serve my needs just fine. I really stood back from it all and realized I was waiting for a bunch of upgrades that in reality don't mean much more to me than model numbers.
I'm sure once the 2010 models grace Apple's online store, I'll have a moment of regret. I'm hoping however, that this feeling will quickly be erased with the brisk realisation of needing to resume work
Ya no kidding. My favorite Mac Pro is my 2008 model. Its snappy (maybe the SSDs have something to do with it) and it's just feels faster overall than my 2009 2.26 one (and yes, I know my 2008 is 3.2). In a way I wish I would have found another refurbed 2008. Sometimes greatest and best is not really greatest and best.
I have been lurking here for literally years. I finally joined so I could respond.
You simply can't get too upset about things. Apple's behavior can best be explained as psychotic. Here are some bullets from that link:
- "loss of contact with reality"
- hallucinations or delusional beliefs
- unusual or bizarre behavior
- difficulty with social interaction
So, my point is you must accept Apple as they are. They're not going to change. If you let their behavior "get" to you, then your mental health will suffer.
BTW, thankfully MacRumors now accepts @yahoo.com email addresses to join. When I tried a while ago they didn't.
Hardware doesn't make sense, as it would cause problems with other OS's as well, which haven't been observed.http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2228019&tstart=0&start=435
Talks about a stand alone fix (Firmware) and thats it's the hardware.
So it's not the software?
It's possible they could try a firmware fix, which might be a re-work of the SMC code (i.e. push the default fan values up). If it's something else (firmware), it could cause problems in other OS's.
They need to get to the root of the problem, and from the information available, its OS X. Assuming a proper fix requires a full re-write of the compiler (not just/only bad drivers), they'll look for some sort of stop-gap solution (firmware and maybe drivers as well) to save time and money.
So depending on what's going to be issued, this may not be over once a solution is released. I really hope this isn't the case though.