Audio Processing Causing Heat and Performance Issues for Nehalem Mac Pros

[RebootD]

I have the Quad 09' model and I can say the report is true. Just from having my OWC FW800 drive plugged in/on it takes up CPU% and my temps jump from 35-45 at times doing nothing.

Also, playing music and not doing anything remotely taxing can cause the same effects. I use SMCfancntrl on a regular basis to keep my temps below the 50c mark.

 

[Wordman]

Sure, that's why Windows 7 alone has market share 50% larger than Apple OSX.

I could just as easily say "Nobody wants Mac - all those text preference files scattered all over the disk without a consistent tool to maintain them".

...and it would be just as useless and misleading as your registry comment.

"Useless and misleading"? Did someone get out of bed a little grumpy this morning?

My point about the Windows registry was that it causes problems for many Windows users, and is one of the poorer points about Windows. Had you managed to read further before reacting quite to hastily, I also referred to the current problems Apple are having - because that system (not to mention the hardware) is far from perfect too. There was no bias, so you don't need to defend Windows quite so aggressively here - it's not an attack.

The crux was actually to stress that there's currently a gap in the market for quality computer products. A third competitor would really shake up the market and perhaps make companies think a little more carefully before they put products out there.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Sure, that's why Windows 7 alone has market share 50% larger than Apple OSX.

Of course you go there.

I could just as easily say "Nobody wants Mac - all those text preference files scattered all over the disk without a consistent tool to maintain them".

At least programs only touch whats theirs and the text files are sorted out in a logical and understandable way.

 

[diazj3]

Have you ever brought your Mac Pro in for repair regarding this issue?

I did: reported it and took it to an authorized service shop (I don't live in the USA) in close communication with a US AppleCare rep.

Two weeks after I got the Mac Pro (october 09), I reported several issues: noise (low frequency humming) from the exhaust fan - which got immediately replaced; small power leakage through the case when connected to a non-grounded power outlet - which turned out to be normal; and the issue being discussed in this thread, which also was labeled as normal after they run all the software diagnosis they got - arguing the computer still runs within specs.

My guess is that Apple a) either didn't see this issue as a real problem, and/or b) they still haven't been able to find a fix for it, but have been quiet about it. I hope this gets fixed in 10.6.3.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Are there any attorneys in here? Mention of a class action lawsuit will certainly get Apple's attention. Anyone?

 

[oldwatery]

apple spends too many resources chasing $$$ with iPod, iPhone, iPad...

it's not apple computer anymore.

.....it's a$$le.....

I regret to say that I agree with you.
their focus has shifted to consumer and mobile electronics.
They no longer innovate in the computer field. And their QC is a sham right now.
They changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason.

 

[H. Flower]

Are there any attorneys in here? Mention of a class action lawsuit will certainly get Apple's attention. Anyone?

I'm not a lawyer but I certainly wouldn't mind participating.

Regardless, I'm currently working on some of my larger-scale media connections. The company's persistent silence is going to start having consequences.

 

[AidenShaw]

OMG! The registry.

My point about the Windows registry was that it causes problems for many Windows users, and is one of the poorer points about Windows.

The registry doens't cause problems. Applications corrupting
their own configuration data causes the problems - and that's
the same issue whether the configuration data is in a database
or scattered in text files.

At least programs only touch whats theirs and the text files are sorted out in a logical and understandable way.

Any realistic examples of an application changing another
application's data? (No anecdotes about administrators
running regedit, please.)

And, how is the hierarchical structure of the file system
more logical and understandable than the hierarchical structure
of the registry?

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Advantages_and_disadvantages - there are advantages/disadvantages
to both approaches to configuration data management.

 

[tonydickinson]

Apple has yet to issue any statements regarding the issue.

Apple need to take this issue seriously as I am reluctant to use my MacPro 2009 version due to the heat it generates and the fact that it draws too much power when idling.

I have raised the issue with the less than helpful AppleCare people in Singapore as the unit becomes very hot at times resulting in some discoloration of the disk drive trays. I have had boot issues and sleep issues and the "genius" people I speak with tell me that the MacPro boots into 64bit mode by default, when I asked as to why my unit will not sleep when running in 32bit mode - its ok in 64bit mode.

I previously had issues with an original iMac24 inch which was covered by AppleCare, but the local support was useless and I endeded up writing to Steve Jobs directly - I hope that I will not need to repeat this exercise.

I see the problem as a Speedstepping/C-state problem as it is likely Apple have not got sufficient knowledge about the new power control and different states. I make this statement as an 18 year old hackintoser produced a kext file which does reduce the power consumption and heat generated noticeably.

They just need to admit this issue instead of offering excuses which only serve to offend owners of their flagship units.

Tony/Singapore.

 

[myca]

Well the last mac I got was a home made Quad Core Q6700 hackintosh build that was a half experiment and half protest over the 09 MacPro pricing, and in the coming months I'll be in the market for a proper MacPro to act as a dedicated audio workstation running Logic, Reason and Pro Tools. But if they can't get these issues fixed I'll have no qualms about building an i7 hackintosh system. All the legalities of the EULA aside if apple can't make machines to run their own Pro Apps on I really don't care about breaking an OS license agreement if it means all of my audio software will work.

Of a side note just pricing up a top spec i7 build with 12GB Ram and four 1TB HDs came to £1300, that includes a decent modular PSU, a water cooler for the CPU and a really nice soundproof case, pricing up a similar spec'd MacPro cost £4000 (granted Apples silly prices on HDs and Ram didn't help).

Looks like I'll wait a few months till any new MacPros are out to make my mind up.

 

[krzyglue]

"Useless and misleading"? Did someone get out of bed a little grumpy this morning?

My point about the Windows registry was that it causes problems for many Windows users, and is one of the poorer points about Windows. Had you managed to read further before reacting quite to hastily, I also referred to the current problems Apple are having - because that system (not to mention the hardware) is far from perfect too. There was no bias, so you don't need to defend Windows quite so aggressively here - it's not an attack.

The crux was actually to stress that there's currently a gap in the market for quality computer products. A third competitor would really shake up the market and perhaps make companies think a little more carefully before they put products out there.

Generally speaking, I disagree with your comment (the registry isn't that bad). However, I do dream as you do of a third viable competitor, and I'm sorry linux users, that is not a viable alternative. I don't think so because I would immediate jump ship, but rather, as you said, this new competition might just be the catalyst for an actual revolution in computing (oh forget the iPad, that is as revolutionary as the iPod touch itself: not quite).

 

[wonderspark]

I have a brand-new '09 Mac Pro Quad 3.33 that I'm using to edit a feature film. My plan thus far is to use the heck out of it every day, and if it blows up, I'll expect Apple to fix / replace as necessary under warranty. If they don't honor their warranty at that point, I'll let you all know.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Any realistic examples of an application changing another
application's data? (No anecdotes about administrators
running regedit, please.)

Basic Utilities like Disk Cleanup. 3rd party software that wants to set defaults etc.

 

[DMann]

The registry doens't cause problems. Applications corrupting
their own configuration data causes the problems

Bingo.

This has been the point all along.

and that's
the same issue whether the configuration data is in a database
or scattered in text files.

What remains not even remotely close to being the same is that any file corruption within The Registry will render the OS inoperable.

Conversely, within OSX, invisible text files, Application support files, preference files, etc. can be deleted without consequence.

Applications can be deleted by simply trashing them - try that with a Windows application.

And, how is the hierarchical structure of the file system
more logical and understandable than the hierarchical structure

Most pertinently, if ever necessary in OSX, one can easily locate a problematic preference file, which can be quickly identified, as they are alphabetically organized and clearly labeled within a singular preferences folder.

The same holds true for Application Support files.

Trying to locate conflicting, redundant, or outdated Registry files is problematic, to the extreme - locating one by file name is not possible.

Your ludicrous attempts of equating the vulnerabilities and problematic nature of Registry files to the nature of text files in OS X exudes cluelessness, as do your blatantly inaccurate, and accusatory remarks toward others here in this forum:

...and it would be just as useless and misleading as your registry comment.

once again, you have assessed the validity of your own posts quite effectively.

 

[charlituna]

Before we speak on Apple's ethics and lawful obligations.... Do you realize that this thread is full of people giving their comments about this case however missing one key element. Nobody here nor in this article have stated they attempted to have their problem looked at by bringing their computers in for service?

yep, Apple can't fix things without actual data and anecdotes on blogs and boards are far from what they need.

and like the imac threads and a few other gripe threads, no one really has any stats about just how big these problems are. a thread on the ADF might have 2000 posts that break down to containing only 50 actual broken machines and do we know how many real defects are out there. against what timeline and what actual number of identical machines.

without those numbers any screams of design flaws, etc are themselves flawed

 

[Wilbah]

Well.. this thread has caught my attention...

I've recently upgraded from a dual 1.8 G5 (circa '03); to a refurbed 2.26 octo (2009).

Now I'm not going to be silly and say this machine is not faster in nearly every way for the serious heavy lifting that I ask it to do (I edit video and do alot of compressing and recoding video), of course its a faster machine....

BUT... it's not really markedly faster or smoother than my '08 iMac, which has half the RAM, and a single processor...PLUS, it's hotter than the G5, its a bit buggy in weird ways, all audio related... it sometimes recognizes external audio through the output jack and sometimes not... sometimes during re-boot the Mac chime plays through the internal speakers, (as well as all system alerts and volume up and down commands) even though there are externals connected..... and said speakers are playing back audio through FCP....

I swear my iMac is snappier (both running 10.6.2) to boot and do simple Safari , iTunes stuff. I've had Mac's since my first SE-20, and whenever I've upgraded it always worth it.... this machine has left me mildly unimpressed.. small Q/C issues (the DVD tray door is stuck open, and wont shut), and the audio irregularities have left me slightly saddened by the dough I dumped on it.

What exactly am I to ask the Apple genius to look for when i take this machine back ti Apple which I will do as I soon as I can, at least to get the DVD door fixed. All of my issues are seemingly intermittent?

 

[diazj3]

Do you realize that this thread is full of people giving their comments about this case however missing one key element. Nobody here nor in this article have stated they attempted to have their problem looked at by bringing their computers in for service? Essentially, the few people actually posting here that are actually experiencing this seem to be waiting at home for Apple to come to them via a software update. Instead, why not treat this like a problem with your car: bring it back to the dealer.

Anyone out here who "brought it back to the dealer", please share with us your experience!

As I stated before: I did. The service rep and the AppleCare rep both concluded this was "normal", since the computer still worked within specifications in terms of power consumption and temperature.

Your claim about nobody here (or in the original thread, for that matter) haven't attempted repair through Apple dealer is flawed, as it is your belief that any problem in a MacPro will be solved simply by bringing it to the shop - specially when it comes to pro machines that are part of a productive business.

In my experience, the service reps have enough resources and knowledge to troubleshoot and repair common basic malfunctions - those observable by direct usage and basic diagnose software. This issue, IMO, is BEYOND that. This issue has to do with a deeper level of performance, that is eating up the technical margin of the specs, so perhaps it should be solved by a more advanced level of technicians.

As for the nature of the problem, I also believe its software/firmware based. I still hope Apple will issue a fix soon, but the first step would be to acknowledge it - something Apple hasn't done yet.

 

[H. Flower]

yep, Apple can't fix things without actual data and anecdotes on blogs and boards are far from what they need.

and like the imac threads and a few other gripe threads, no one really has any stats about just how big these problems are. a thread on the ADF might have 2000 posts that break down to containing only 50 actual broken machines and do we know how many real defects are out there. against what timeline and what actual number of identical machines.

without those numbers any screams of design flaws, etc are themselves flawed

The persistent conclusion from the company has been the behavior is normal.

 

[Appelflap]

Apple better fix problems like these asap.
People spend lots and lots and so expect Macs to be fine tuned.

 

[AidenShaw]

Basic Utilities like Disk Cleanup. 3rd party software that wants to set defaults etc.

Defective third party OSX software could corrupt preferences as
well - is there a difference?

System administrators (or utilities) incorrectly changing
preferences is the same issue whether the preferences are
consolidated in a database or scattered haphazardly across
the filesystem.

Please add a link to evidence that Disk Cleanup is causing
problems with application preferences.

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
The registry doesn't cause problems. Applications corrupting
their own configuration data causes the problems

Bingo.

This has been the point all along.

Mr. Rolleyes - what's the difference between an application
corrupting its configuration data in a database vs. an
application corrupting its data in a stream text file?

Answer: none.

What remains not even remotely close to being the same is that any file corruption within The Registry will render the OS inoperable.

Note that invalid configuration data is not file corruption.
The database is valid and completely consistent - the contents
of some database entries may be invalid for an application - but
the OS has no problems booting.

If the disk blocks under the registry go bad - yes, you have problems
booting - but can any OS boot correctly if you destroy critical
data? I doubt it.

Applications can be deleted by simply trashing them - try that with a Windows application.

On the other hand, install a Windows application on any hard drive
or path that you want, and it works and upgrades/updates just
fine.

With OSX, if those precious files aren't in the expected path - you
may have problems with updates/upgrades.

Why - because Windows will store application paths in a known
database. It won't have some hardwired logic to find magic files.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

Please go back and read the Wikipedia link - neither the
registry nor scattered text files is perfect. (I prefer the
registry because of the remote access feature and the ability
to have a hierarchy of per-user and per-system preferences
transparently applied.)

Only an idiot would base his choice of an OS on how it stored
application preferences.

 

[TheSpaz]

Defective third party OSX software could corrupt preferences as
well - is there a difference?

System administrators (or utilities) incorrectly changing
preferences is the same issue whether the preferences are
consolidated in a database or scattered haphazardly across
the filesystem.

Please add a link to evidence that Disk Cleanup is causing
problems with application preferences.




Mr. Rolleyes - what's the difference between an application
corrupting its configuration data in a database vs. an
application corrupting its data in a stream text file?

Answer: none.




Note that invalid configuration data is not file corruption.
The database is valid and completely consistent - the contents
of some database entries may be invalid for an application - but
the OS has no problems booting.

If the disk blocks under the registry go bad - yes, you have problems
booting - but can any OS boot correctly if you destroy critical
data? I doubt it.




On the other hand, install a Windows application on any hard drive
or path that you want, and it works and upgrades/updates just
fine.

With OSX, if those precious files aren't in the expected path - you
may have problems with updates/upgrades.

Why - because Windows will store application paths in a known
database. It won't have some hardwired logic to find magic files.



Please go back and read the Wikipedia link - neither the
registry nor scattered text files is perfect. (I prefer the
registry because of the remote access feature and the ability
to have a hierarchy of per-user and per-system preferences
transparently applied.)

Only an idiot would base his choice of an OS on how it stored
application preferences.

This entire post bugs me. It's very rare for a Mac OS X file to corrupt the preference file. Regular users shouldn't even have to even look in the preferences folder.

Also, the only applications that NEED to be in the correct location to be updated correctly are the Apple installed applications that come with the OS. If you're moving those around, you're asking for trouble. Anything else is okay to move because they get updated by the third party and not by Apple's Software Update.

It looks like you're really uneducated about the way Mac OS X works.

 

[AidenShaw]

This entire post bugs me. It's very rare for a Mac OS X file to corrupt the preference file. Regular users shouldn't even have to even look in the preferences folder.

Also, the only applications that NEED to be in the correct location to be updated correctly are the Apple installed applications that come with the OS. If you're moving those around, you're asking for trouble. Anything else is okay to move because they get updated by the third party and not by Apple's Software Update.

It looks like you're really uneducated about the way Mac OS X works.

And the people complaining about corruption of the Windows
registry are just as "uneducated". Your comments apply equally
to those whining about the registry.

Note that my original reply was to say that complaining about
the registry is just as meaningless as complaining about
preference files. You seem to agree.

Anything else is okay to move because they get updated by the third party and not by Apple's Software Update.

(honest question) If you've installed an Apple OSX 3rd party app
on /dev/sdd4/foo/bar - how does that app's updater know where it
is installed? On Windows, a registry entry like
\\hklm\software\thirdparty\appname\installdir would have the
path to the installation directory. How does an app in Apple OSX register its installation path with the system?

 

[TheSpaz]

And the people complaining about corruption of the Windows
registry are just as "uneducated". Your comments apply equally
to those whining about the registry.

Note that my original reply was to say that complaining about
the registry is just as meaningless as complaining about
preference files. You seem to agree.




(honest question) If you've installed an Apple OSX 3rd party app
on /dev/sdd4/foo/bar - how does that app's updater know where it
is installed? On Windows, a registry entry like
\\hklm\software\thirdparty\appname\installdir would have the
path to the installation directory. How does an app in Apple OSX register its installation path with the system?

I've never had a Windows registry problem.

If I install an OS X app in /dev/sdd4/foo/bar, that's fine. The App is all contained in a single package. Most (not all) OS X apps are just drag and drop from a disk image meaning you can install it anywhere you want. Also a lot of the OS X apps I've seen, have the updater built into the actual app. It will download the update and ask you if you want to relaunch the updated app. It will install in place. Other apps might have a separate update installer in which it will ask you to provide the path to the app and others may do an automatic search.

I can't say that I've ever had an installer not know where to update an app... so your argument seems to fail (for me).

I'm sorry, but it still seems that you don't work with OS X much. However, I don't work with Windows much (just use it for games, cause that's what it's mostly good for anyway) so I can't tell you about Windows registry, but you shouldn't be telling me about how apps are installed or updated in Mac OS X because Mac is what I'm an expert in.

 

[gugy]

Wow,
I have to say that I was planning to upgrade my 2008 MP now but after so many issues with 2009, I wonder if the upcoming 2010 will be any better. I guess I will have to wait and see.

Apple care has been great with me, but it's a pain a machine that has many issues and if that is your primary computer, you are screwed due the fact you will end up with it at the shop for many days to be repaired.
That's sucks.

Apple better get their sh•t together and put aside the cool toys of iPads, iPods and iPhones. Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[AidenShaw]

I can't say that I've ever had an installer not know where to update an app... so your argument seems to fail (for me).

Thank you for the explanation, but I'm still looking to understand
how the OS finds the random application installation.

For example, if the application requires a listener (or othe daemon),
how does that get registered with the OS? (I'm familiar with
standard UNIX/Linux mechanisms like init.d/cron, if OSX is
similar.)

...but you shouldn't be telling me about how apps are installed or updated in Mac OS X because Mac is what I'm an expert in.

Thank you for clarifying my misunderstanding. I've seen the
warnings about problems due to moving applications from the
/Applications folder - but didn't realize that it applied
only to the bundled Apple apps.