From Targets follow-up actions, clearly NO chip and pin info was mined because they offered the C&P cards as replacements to their previously issued magnetic strip cards.
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Australian Banks Challenge Apple Over Mobile Payment App Restrictions
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From Targets follow-up actions, clearly NO chip and pin info was mined because they offered the C&P cards as replacements to their previously issued magnetic strip cards.
Well, of course we're only talking about iPhone users. Apple does not get a fee from other systems
Most people don't realize that Apple did not write the payment applets. Nor did they create or handle the tokenization. All that's done and maintained by MC/Visa/AMEX/Discover. Apple just takes credit for hosting those applets.
During a contactless transaction, Apple's servers do nothing. Apple's only server involvement for a contactless transaction is to let a user initially register their bank card. Even that's not necessary. Apple only does it so that they can charge banks access to the credit card payment applets.
So... if, for instance, a bank wants its own customers who use an iPhone to be able register to use their own credit card with the already written and installed Mastercard payment app, the bank has to agree to pay Apple a portion of each and every transaction even though Apple has no cost during that transaction.
Yes, I call that a ransom. Although continuous blackmail might be more accurate.
Well, of course we're only talking about iPhone users. Apple does not get a fee from other systems
Most people don't realize that Apple did not write the payment applets. Nor did they create or handle the tokenization. All that's done and maintained by MC/Visa/AMEX/Discover. Apple just takes credit for hosting those applets.
During a contactless transaction, Apple's servers do nothing. Apple's only server involvement for a contactless transaction is to let a user initially register their bank card. Even that's not necessary. Apple only does it so that they can charge banks access to the credit card payment applets.
So... if, for instance, a bank wants its own customers who use an iPhone to be able register to use their own credit card with the already written and installed Mastercard payment app, the bank has to agree to pay Apple a portion of each and every transaction even though Apple has no cost during that transaction.
Yes, I call that a ransom. Although continuous blackmail might be more accurate.
My point being that banks can just say "use our Android app" and not bother negotiating with Apple at all. Yeah, it'll suck switching from iOS to Android but if paying with a phone is that important to you...
Actually, Target didn't even start to install chip & PIN readers until a year and a half after the data breach.
All I'm saying is that if a RAM scraper can see magnetic stripe account numbers passing through the terminal code, then there's no reason the scraper couldn't also look at the right memory location (perhaps the same one) to see a chip & PIN account number passing through. There's nothing special about a chip & PIN account number that makes it unreadable.
Perhaps Apple should make the argument that it's unfair for Citibank to control 100% of the Citibank market.
Sounds like capitalism at work to me.Well, of course we're only talking about iPhone users. Apple does not get a fee from other systems
Most people don't realize that Apple did not write the payment applets. Nor did they create or handle the tokenization. All that's done and maintained by MC/Visa/AMEX/Discover. Apple just takes credit for hosting those applets.
During a contactless transaction, Apple's servers do nothing. Apple's only server involvement for a contactless transaction is to let a user initially register their bank card. Even that's not necessary. Apple only does it so that they can charge banks access to the credit card payment applets.
So... if, for instance, a bank wants its own customers who use an iPhone to be able register to use their own credit card with the already written and installed Mastercard payment app, the bank has to agree to pay Apple a portion of each and every transaction even though Apple has no cost during that transaction.
Yes, I call that a ransom. Although continuous blackmail might be more accurate.
I have a simple ANZ account attached to my mortgage account. I pay all my Apple Pay through that account and do one weekly transfer from Westpac to cover that which I have spent. Sucked in Westpac you lose 1% instead of .15%
Three of Australia's biggest banks have lodged a joint application with anti-trust regulators to negotiate with Apple over gaining access to the NFC-based mobile payment hardware in its smartphones (via Reuters).
Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank (NAB), and Westpac have so far resisted signing deals to use the company's Apple Pay mobile payment system, because they want their customers to be able to use digital wallets they have already financed and developed.
However, none of the banks want to be accused of violating anti-competition law by negotiating deals, which is where the application comes in.
If the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) lets the banks collectively negotiate with Apple under the terms of the application, it would enable them to undertake "a limited form of boycott" in which they would all agree not to negotiate with Apple individually while the talks take place.
Apple currently only allows its own mobile payment system to access the NFC-hardware in its iPhone devices, which banks argue is an anti-competitive restriction that hampers consumer choice.
Apple Pay launched in Australia in November, but has since been slow to roll out in the country. The delay was thought to be down to issues Apple was experiencing negotiating fees with the nation's largest banking institutes.
Three months ago it added Apple Pay support for credit and debit cards from the Australia and New Zealand Banking Group (aka ANZ), the only bank in Australia's "Big Four" that played no part in the latest application.
Article Link: Australian Banks Challenge Apple Over Mobile Payment App Restrictions
The point is, if anyone steals your card, they can go on a spending spree as up to $100 you don't have to enter a PIN. With Pay, you need to use Touch ID or be wearing an Watch that's been unlocked by the owner. The police in Oz are screaming at the banks to do something to stop the rise in theft of cards and the abuse of the system. Last year it cost Australian banks over $900 million in theft via tap and go cards. Guess who ends up paying for that? The consumer. It could be greatly reduced or even eradicated if the banks got their heads out of their ass and went with the flow. Just to remind everyone, banking fees in Australia are amongst the highest in the western world. People need to be aware of the facts and the difference between what the banks offer in the form of security (which is next to zero) as opposed to the secure method Apple have developed.
Have you got a source for that number of $900 million ... seems a bit high don't you think?
Sure, just like real life, anyone can refuse to pay ransom / blackmail.
However, the usual result is that someone suffers. In this case, it's mostly the users who wanted to use their own bank cards on their own iPhones. Banks, especially ones on a tighter budget like credit unions, also suffer if their customers leave for a different bank. That's sad. It's like when Walmart comes in and small businesses suffer.
You know, when I heard about a transaction fee for Apple Pay, my first thought was that, "Neat! Apple is going to make their phone even more attractive by offering rewards to iPhone Apple Pay users!" Silly me. Forgot how greedy Apple is, especially since Cook took over.
*grin* Well, almost. If Apple opened up NFC to other apps and competed with them on price and value, THAT would be capitalism. Currently, it's just a closed system with all the cards stacked in Apple's favor.
If NFC was open in iOS like it is in Android, then the banks could make NFC apps that use TouchID just like Apple.
Apple didn't develop anything much other than the UI in Apple Pay, btw. The NFC payment applets, tokenization and EMV transaction methods were all done by others.
If Apple opened NFC to all apps, then you could still choose Apple Pay to be your default payment UI.
Like I said, if that's the most important consideration for someone, then they'll make it work. iPhones keep their resale value more so than Android devices, not to mention that a decent quality Android device can be 50% the cost of an iPhone (for example, the Nexus 5X/6P). I think you'll find that most people really don't care about paying with a phone right now* outside of the various Android/Apple fan forums, especially when they can just tap their cards instead.
*Chip acceptance in the US doesn't seem to be pushing people to contactless either but that's a whole different thread.
It's not anti competitive for Apple to not allow a company in their App Store using Apple technology. If Apple isn't ready to support apps yet, then they shouldn't. Consumers can buy Android devices if it suites them better. One business shouldn't be dictating to another how they should run their business.
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As a NAB customer I can safely say that while their mobile app works pretty well, if I was making an RFID payment I'd like to stick with Apple Pay as it's built-in and will function much better. I don't want to switch to ANZ but if this drags on any longer I might have to find a better bank... and ANZ aren't better, they're just not idiots right now.
After reading this yesterday I'm going to be changing to ANZ. I'm with NAB and was holding out to see when Apple Pay would come, I'm not waiting any longer. If they can't see that their customers want Apple Pay then too bad. I highly doubt they will support Apple Pay if they were able to put their own wallets on iPhones, making them just as anti-competitive as they're complaining about. Sorry guys, watch now as your customers flock to ANZ.
I switched to ANZ and Apple Pay has been great. I was with CBA but cannot tolerate their lack of ethics anymore - resisting Apple Pay was the last straw;
http://www.smh.com.au/business/bank...ke-of-comminsure-scandal-20160310-gnfbtn.html
http://www.smh.com.au/business/bank...ke-of-comminsure-scandal-20160310-gnfbtn.html
Well apple is the 50,000 lb gorilla in this arena. I actually can't blame them for not opening it up. It doesn't affect me on way or another as I use a credit card. (The big issue with cards, even moreso with pay systems, are the restaurants where the cc leaves your sight. There are a few restaurants with devices at the tables that let you pay your bill, but they are far and few in-between)
Move to Pakistan its 1967-ish there.
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Seriuosly? You make no sense whatsoever.
Pay.
The problem is Australia are way too ahead with payment technology. We don't allow signature anymore its all PIN. MasterCard and Visa Paypass is just about everywhere and most people actually use it, and all the major banks have their own mobile payment that allows Android phones NFC to pay. Apple Pay can be considered late to the game. And as all this technology exists and Banks have invested heavily in them, they don't want to give apple any fees and will rather force their customers to use their own solutions. What banks don't understand is Apple Pay is way more secure and convenient to the user
Here in New Zealand the bank developed Wallet (Semble, available on special SIMs on some Android phones) has closed its doors.
Reminds me of a number of years ago when the Australasian banks developed Bankcard as a local alternative to Visa and MasterCard. It lasted a few years and then, from memory, got merged into MasterCard.
I don't remember the last time I signed for something (PIN all the way) and most terminals now use NFC and PIN override once your purchase is over the NFC limit. No swiping or inserting, just enter your PIN.
Would love to be using Apple Pay!
What does that mean exactly? I use my iPhone at places that have NFC tech, but don't have Apple Pay to make payments all the time. So if this says what I think it means, then it's not true.
They want to put their own wallet app on the iPhone and avoid paying Apple their "cut" of the transaction. They already pay Visa or MasterCard for the priviledge of processing the transaction and don't want to pay Apple as well. They're banks, they want to maximize their profits!
Of course, there is nothing stopping you from buying an Android phone and using their app there (if it still exists), so presumably there is already competition in this sector!