Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The fact that you are attacking everyone telling you at a professional level that the orange dot is bad and refuse to see it as an issue speaks volumes. Either you are young in your career or don't do it for a living.

This is a detail that separate professional grade from not. Not understanding that is a massive issue.
I HAVE SAID IT IS AN ISSUE IN SOME CASES!!!!!

But people just say I am unprofessional because MY.....MINE.....MY... case proves it is not a big issue? It absolutely, 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT must be a big issue IN ALL SITUATIONS? No room for difference of opinion or different business needs here?
 
You'll find regional variations in the "it'll cost ya" dept. I would not be surprised if bottles of vodka was the currency at the Moscow production. You'll just have to negotiate a way to add on 15% for yourself ;-)
My friend, I do mid-sized theater in New Orleans ... I promise you that currency per se is not the appropriate currency here. (But bottles of something? Yes indeed.) I hope the Macbeth is bringing in the crowds, damn it's good to be back.
 
I HAVE SAID IT IS AN ISSUE IN SOME CASES!!!!!

But people just say I am unprofessional because MY.....MINE.....MY... case proves it is not a big issue? It absolutely, 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT must be a big issue IN ALL SITUATIONS? No room for difference of opinion or different business needs here?

Well, if it's not an issue in a context it's irrelevant to this thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: videosoul
Well, if it's not an issue in a context it's irrelevant to this thread.
Not sure what you mean here? This whole thing started with my two cents so its not me that dragged this whole thing out. I said I didn't find that circle distracting. Could you be more clear what you mean here? Are you saying only people that DO have this issue should be allowed to post in this thread?
 
Not sure what you mean here? This whole thing started with my two cents so its not me that dragged this whole thing out. I said I didn't find that circle distracting. Could you be more clear what you mean here? Are you saying only people that DO have this issue should be allowed to post in this thread?

If it doesn't distract you as a professional, it's probably not relevant to your work. If it was, it would. Which is why this article is a MacRumors post.
 
But also in the grand scheme of things its not a mountain of an issue and I have provided my own work experiences to back that up.

That's fine, and I illustrate how in my - and other's - work experience... it is a mountain "in the grand scheme".

Great way to have a nice conversation going on.

You stated that "People commenting here make it seem like this orange dot is brining down these people's businesses."
And I explained to you that this orange dot issue would be likely to bring down business. If it didn't get fixed which I trust it will soon.

And the people that DO find that the circle distracting aren't being empathetic to those in the industry that DOESN'T find it distracting.

Empathy is rarely necessary towards people who do not have a problem, who are not afraid of losing their income and business.


And per your last point, "everybody being distracted by the circle" is not the attitude to have either because every workplace is different. Not everyone has the aesthetic or work situation where that orange circle is a big issue.
I do not recall writing about circles. perhaps you are confusing things?
Again: if it's not an issue for you, that's great.
But it would also be great if you could refrain from thinking: "It's not a problem for me, therefor it should be a mole hill for everybody else".
 
Again, what gives you the right to tell ME what is distracting to ME? I don't find that circle distracting in that picture. I do however find Steve moving around distracting if I need to focus on the presentation. Movement gears your eyes towards it.

Seriously, how is it stupid argument? Movement by definition is distracting. Especially to a wide range of people. I find spiders moving in my studio distracting while I work because there is movement.

At the very least, can we PLEASE just stop with the insults. Saying things like I am stupid or my distractions are stupid. People can get distracted for any number of reasons. Same reason I can't really go to movie theaters anymore because I get distracted when someone's phone (while on silent) lights up.

I typically watch an Apple event at least two or three times because I sometimes miss slides when there is movement going on.
No insult, but I do think that when Apple hired for that presentation, their expectation would most likely have been that Steve WAS the presentation and the Keynote projection was merely his backing.

And I’m sure Mr Jobs would have been fine with that orange dot because he always seemed pretty laid back about aesthetics. Wait, I meant he would have fired the person responsible immediately after the show, which is why I figure this is a simple mistake and Apple will likely be fixing this very soon.

Yes, it isn’t a problem for everyone and many people wouldn’t even notice, but Apple usually does try to target the people that do notice, and there is really no need to show that indicator on every screen when they can just show it on the main screen menu where everyone expects it. There is nothing more secure about flashing it on every screen unless they think that no one looks at the menu.
 
If it doesn't distract you as a professional, it's probably not relevant to your work. If it was, it would. Which is why this article is a MacRumors post.
Yeah that was my entire argument that there are some professional works that this doesn't impact due to business and opinion differences out there in the world. Again this all started with just my two cents so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
No insult, but I do think that when Apple hired for that presentation, their expectation would most likely have been that Steve WAS the presentation and the Keynote projection was merely his backing.

And I’m sure Mr Jobs would have been fine with that orange dot because he always seemed pretty laid back about aesthetics. Wait, I meant he would have fired the person responsible immediately after the show, which is why I figure this is a simple mistake and Apple will likely be fixing this very soon.

Yes, it isn’t a problem for everyone and many people wouldn’t even notice, but Apple usually does try to target the people that do notice, and there is really no need to show that indicator on every screen when they can just show it on the main screen menu where everyone expects it. There is nothing more secure about flashing it on every screen unless they think that no one looks at the menu.
I can definitely see the security reason why it shows on all screens. What if you set this up and never look at the main display for the 2-5 hour event (or however long it is)? And suddenly your mic gets activated? You won't notice it unless its projecting everywhere. This is why our IT staff remoting software shows up a notice on all screens because my focus might be on my secondary display and I won't notice it happening on my primary display.

Whether that is the wrong approach is not my decision to make. I can just clearly see a security purpose for it broadcasting on every display to get your attention. Maybe that is also why I don't think this is a big deal because I come from IT Security background as well and can see all the angles here?
 
This whole thing started with my two cents so its not me that dragged this whole thing out. I said I didn't find that circle distracting.
Nobody has a prpblem with you stating you don't find it distracting.
You also said "People commenting here make it seem like this orange dot is brining down these people's businesses."
And it is being pointed out to you: that this could very well bring down people's businesses.
And that your apparent inalbility to comprehend this is surprising, indeed somewhat worrying that you seem to think "my clients don't mind orange dots, therefor nobody else's clients should mind orange dots"
And then plead for empathy from people who could lose their business - towards people who won't lose their business...
That's just bizarre.
 
Yeah that was my entire argument that there are some professional works that this doesn't impact due to business and opinion differences out there in the world. Again this all started with just my two cents so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You came across as trying to downplay this issue for everyone by teaching everyone about video safe margins and telling everyone that Steve Jobs (the presenter) and an up lit curtain are more distracting than a random orange dot on the screen.
 
Nobody has a prpblem with you stating you don't find it distracting.
You also said "People commenting here make it seem like this orange dot is brining down these people's businesses."
And it is being pointed out to you: that this could very well bring down people's businesses.
And that your apparent inalbility to comprehend this is surprising, indeed somewhat worrying that you seem to think "my clients don't mind orange dots, therefor nobody else's clients should mind orange dots"
And then plead for empathy from people who could lose their business - towards people who won't lose their business...
That's just bizarre.
I have said that if its at the point where it brings down your business, DOWNGRADE TO BIG SUR!!! I have said this repeatedly! And you should NEVER EVER under any circumstances update a mission critical system to the point where it brings down your entire business. I have indeed addressed that side......many times. So please tell me how I’m not comprehending it when I clearly discussed it many times. And in no way did I say my experience should equate to all experiences. In fact, the opposite was implied where "don’t mind the circle? Unprofessional!" THAT was when I was calling for empathy or just seeing the other side instead of resorting to insults. I was in no way saying those losing their business should do that, but those saying I’m unprofessional for my stance should.
 
Last edited:
You came across as trying to downplay this issue for everyone by teaching everyone about video safe margins and telling everyone that Steve Jobs (the presenter) and an up lit curtain are more distracting than a random orange dot on the screen.
To me it is more distracting that an orange dot. Sorry but that is just how I operate. And yes that title/action safe will prevent the orange dot from obstructing the content (as shown in my images). I have also said every Apple presentation I watch I need to watch it two or three times because the movement of people distract me from some of those cool slides they like to show. To me, that is far more distracting than a static orange circle. Again, just my two cents.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: freedomlinux
To me it is more distracting that an orange dot. Sorry but that is just how I operate. And yes that title/action safe will prevent the orange dot from obstructing the content (as shown in my images). I have also said every Apple presentation I watch I need to watch it two or three times because the movement of people distract me from some of those cool slides they like to show. To me, that is far more distracting than a static orange circle. Again, just my two cents.
...and this is why people are calling you out. Your opinion isn't in line with how this profession works. In live presentation, it's all about making it seamless.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: DocNo and videosoul
...and this is why people are calling you out. Your opinion isn't in line with how this profession works. In live presentation, it's all about making it seamless.
So no business can operate differently here? It is, 100% guaranteed a MUST to be an issue for this orange circle? That no business would have different opinions on the matter? Yes businesses have opinions not just me. It’s similar to the watermark I mentioned before. Some of my clients need it on there. You might find it distracting, they don’t. Oh we got an opinion there don’t we? But I thought you said opinions don’t matter?
 
  • Angry
Reactions: freedomlinux
I have said that if its at the point where it brings down your business, DOWNGRADE TO BIG SUR!!! I have said this repeatedly! And you should NEVER EVER under any circumstances update a mission critical system to the point where it brings down your entire business. I have indeed addressed that side......many times.
This has been a discussion about whether the orange dot is a serious issue in various artisitc contexts or not, about artistic concerns, and whether it could affect work/income.
Multiple people have tried to get you to understand that: what is a "mole hill" for you - could be a mountain for others.
I don't think anybody was requesting a workaround suggestion from you, I don't know anybody who has moved to the newest OS yet or will anytime soon.
And getting venues to downgrade their systems before we arrive is a pain we should not have to contend with, considering Apple's reputation and cost.
Again: it's such a silly issue that I hope there'll be a fix from Apple soon.
And I hope that in future you can refrain from writing extremely narrow and ignorant words like "People commenting here make it seem like this orange dot is brining down these people's businesses."
Have a nice evening.
T
 
This has been a discussion about whether the orange dot is a serious issue in various artisitc contexts or not, about artistic concerns, and whether it could affect work/income.
Multiple people have tried to get you to understand that: what is a "mole hill" for you - could be a mountain for others.
I don't think anybody was requesting a workaround suggestion from you, I don't know anybody who has moved to the newest OS yet or will anytime soon.
And getting venues to downgrade their systems before we arrive is a pain we should not have to contend with, considering Apple's reputation and cost.
Again: it's such a silly issue that I hope there'll be a fix from Apple soon.
And I hope that in future you can refrain from writing extremely narrow and ignorant words like "People commenting here make it seem like this orange dot is brining down these people's businesses."
Have a nice evening.
T
That can literally be applied to everything though. What is a molehill is a mountain for someone. I’m sure there is some business out there that is having a fit about the future of Intel in macs. To them, it’s a mountain.

And that comment was in the grand scheme of things. Mountain for everyone in the grand scheme = malware on macOS that’s spreading like wildfire. Molehill = orange circle showing on extra displays under certain conditions. And I provided why it’s not a mountain for all. It won’t bring down my business or clients business if it was there. For those that do have the issue there is a workaround.

And it is quite ridiculous. People commenting here make it sound like THIS ISSUE should be an immediate retraction or a fix to Monterey NOW because people are losing their jobs. So no I tried to bring this conversation back to earth and frankly got slapped for it. Generally threads on this site get way too out of hand, which frankly makes me lose interest in the site. Since joining in 2010, it’s just so tiresome anymore. And I tried to counter all the hate and disgust thrown around but I’m just not going to try anymore.

I guess next time someone reports an issue and I don’t experience it or try to help with workarounds, I guess I just can’t comment unless I think the exact same way as everyone else. Every thread lately is turning into this and frankly I’m so tired of it.
 
Last edited:
I still don’t know what’s the issue. What’s wrong with having a dot in the menu bar when doing presentation?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: videosoul
Great example how out of touch Apple is with their professional users.
I think Apple doesn't really care about professional users anymore and is slowly trying to extricate itself from that market. This lack of care, or more accurately lack of caring about professional needs, is what will drive professional users to other more supported platforms and I think Apple is OK with that happening. Apple wants high volume high profit business. The professional market is too small to really matter to Apple other than for prestige, which seems to be less important to Apple as time goes on.

Professional users are effectively in a somewhat abusive relationship with Apple. Some are sticking with Apple because it is hard for move to other platforms. Still it would be wise to be working on an exit strategy. This unnecessary orange dot wart is just one more hint of many that Apple really doesn't care about supporting this market.
 
Last edited:
I can definitely see the security reason why it shows on all screens. What if you set this up and never look at the main display for the 2-5 hour event (or however long it is)? And suddenly your mic gets activated? You won't notice it unless its projecting everywhere. This is why our IT staff remoting software shows up a notice on all screens because my focus might be on my secondary display and I won't notice it happening on my primary display.

Whether that is the wrong approach is not my decision to make. I can just clearly see a security purpose for it broadcasting on every display to get your attention. Maybe that is also why I don't think this is a big deal because I come from IT Security background as well and can see all the angles here?
I can’t imagine a scenario where the person running a show would not be paying any attention to their actual control screen during that show, but even if that was somehow the case, the scenario they are talking about is one where they actually activated the mic themselves, so they already know it is on and if someone else somehow hacks in at that point, there would be no change to the indicator anyway, so it serves absolutely no security purpose at that point. It would honestly be more important for them to know the mic was off, but in that scenario, once again, they would have to not be paying any attention to the show they are presenting (or listening at all) to not notice the mic cut out.

Again, this is a pretty huge mistake for the presentation purposes angle and I doubt Apple will leave it like this. They will probably make it an option for your type of scenario, though. I am amazed you can work that long a stretch without looking at your menu, as I always find myself having to go back to it. Kudos to you!
 
So no business can operate differently here? It is, 100% guaranteed a MUST to be an issue for this orange circle? That no business would have different opinions on the matter? Yes businesses have opinions not just me. It’s similar to the watermark I mentioned before. Some of my clients need it on there. You might find it distracting, they don’t. Oh we got an opinion there don’t we? But I thought you said opinions don’t matter?
Nobody was refuting that different businesses operate differently. Yet despite them operating differently, all of them are having to deal with the orange dot whether it's a problem for that particular situation or not. The fact that it's not 'officially' avoidable is the issue.

Steve has the option to stand still... They can black out the lights on that section of blue curtain... all of those 'distractions' you mention are negatable. They can't (easily) switch off the orange dot.

Ultimately it's Apple's problem... and until they fix it people will either hack their way around a security feature of the operating system (which I doubt Apple is cool with), or switch to a different platform (which I'm pretty positive Apple isn't cool with).

It's great (and sensible) that you stay a few revisions behind in your OS... if you have enough paying clients to maintain a system like that, then great... but as you keep SCREAMING, not everyone is in the same situation.

If it were me, I wouldn't accept it, especially from a machine that costs so much. My audiovisual work is really small scale (tiny clubs and university cafes and such... trivial in comparison to some of the others in this thread) but it's important to me, and there is no way I'd compromise it simply because Apple or macrumors or anyone told me I was worried about a molehill.
 
"In their infinite wisdom, Apple has..."

A great conversation starter, to insult the company whose help you need in order to get the matter resolved...
Sorry pal, but ****, if they take peoples money, they better give them what they want. I bought a Mac before this feature, am I to blame for Apple‘s garbage updates? Nope, because they develop these updates with my money. They make it look like as if the users with their feedback are in charge for change, let them put their mouths where our money is.
Btw why is it a square in iOS and a dot in macOS? Continuity is out the window the last years.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.