AV Artists Complain Monterey 'Orange Dot' Security Feature Makes Macs Unsuitable for Live Performances

[Silverstring]

If their work/livelihood does depend on a specific setup, then it would make even more sense to test the betas. Not on the production machine, but on an extra that can be used for testing and reporting bugs - and if needed restore a backup from the production machine if that dies.

You’re right…assuming they have a spare or “extra”.

If they depend on these machines for work, they should have an extra.

…but the term “starving artist” comes from somewhere. Perhaps the artists complaining about this so vociferously wouldn’t if they just had a spare—or the money to buy/maintain one—to tide them over.

 

[hiphopdan]

this thing has been pretty annoying to me during my dj sets.

 

[KindJamz]

This all over.

How the hell can people just not comprehend that if you've spent ages designing big art installation visuals for public showing or are a live performance VJ that having a big orange dot in the corner of your art creation on every screen you display it on is completely unacceptable. I don't have to do this ever with my new Mac (or at least no immediate plans), but when I read the article I instantly though "F*******K!!!! Monterey would be completely unusable if I did and hadn't even considered it"! Likewise if I was in the audience to a show I'd instantly think something was screwed with the monitor if I didn't have Monterey, or figure what a total embarassment if I did.

It would be the visual equivalent of my Mac making a short beep noise or glitch once a minute during all the music I produced or was DJing. I can't comprehend how people can read the article and either not comprehend or start making excuses!

It's a nice security feature if you want it, but this definitely needs some option to turn it off. A computer that insists on putting anything additional you don't want on every screen it's outputting with no way to turn it off is straight up unusable for showing art to any audience and not looking completely amateur.

Imagine going to an IMAX cinema and the whole film having an orange dot in the corner - you'd ask for your money back! Same thing, just slightly different scenario.

Because some people can’t handle apple facing any criticism. It’s personal to them. Weird

 

[KindJamz]

That is why you adhere to title/action safe areas. All relevant footage will be more towards the center of the content.

Wow. Talk about twisting around to defend apple. For an artist this is a huge deal. For you it’s not.

 

[KindJamz]

Piggy backing off of the Steve Jobs post earlier. I find these two elements more distracting than the orange dot. Not to mention the crowd in front of the camera is distracting too.

View attachment 1932672

No the orange dots stand out like a sore thumb. Sorry.

 

[Ethosik]

…but the term “starving artist” comes from somewhere. Perhaps the artists complaining about this so vociferously wouldn’t if they just had a spare—or the money to buy/maintain one—to tide them over.

That leads to it being even more critical to never update a mission-critical system to a new OS. If they are starving, did they just buy a $1,000 Mac that comes with Monterey built in? If not, why did they update the OS on such a critical system?

 

[Ethosik]

No the orange dots stand out like a sore thumb. Sorry.

Not to me, movement draws my attention like crazy. If a spider moves while I am trying to work, it will severely distract me, even a small one. I see movement and my attention goes elsewhere. But a static non-moving thing? Sure I notice it, like I notice the podium in that same screen shot, or that lit up curtain in the same shot. I notice it, then don't really see it.

 

[fompsweeva]

Not to me, movement draws my attention like crazy. If a spider moves while I am trying to work, it will severely distract me, even a small one. I see movement and my attention goes elsewhere. But a static non-moving thing? Sure I notice it, like I notice the podium in that same screen shot, or that lit up curtain in the same shot. I notice it, then don't really see it.

That's not even the point. Steve is allowed to move. He's the presenter. Movement is part of a presentation. The screen isn't displaying a video, it is displaying a slide show.

The goal in presentation craft is to minimize distractions so we can focus on the presentation. An orange dot is a big wart in that.

 

[Ethosik]

That's not even the point. Steve is allowed to move. He's the presenter. Movement is part of a presentation. The screen isn't displaying a video, it is displaying a slide show.

The goal in presentation craft is to minimize distractions so we can focus on the presentation. An orange dot is a big wart in that.

Except when it takes away from the informative slides. I always miss crucial things especially the last few events where they list all those features since there is some movement going on. Again why I need to watch Apple events two or three times. Look I have said it many times that this is subjective, I am VERY sensitive to movement and its more distracting than a static image. Just like I don't find watermarks distracting. I still don't know why people are fighting me on this when its purely subjective experience. My two cents has turned into like 5 pages by now and its all "NOPE, not true!!!" so that means I can't operate differently?

Slides like this, when people move I miss out on some details, like Wifi-6? Nice to know! But I only see that on the second/third viewing because I get distracted by movement.

https://imgr.search.brave.com/xYpUzqP6jfE9gnyifv6oJ3Eg8-DchyQGUx6gqYIq0DI/fit/1200/1080/ce/1/aHR0cHM6Ly9pMS53/cC5jb20vbW96emls/bG8uY29tL3dwLWNv/bnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fk/cy8yMDE5LzA5L2Fw/cGxlLWV2ZW50LXNs/aWRlcy1kYXNoYm9h/cmQuanBlZz9maXQ9/MTkyMCUyQzEwODAm/c3NsPTE

This is like people fighting me for liking the color green. I offered my two cents what feels like 5 pages ago, and I keep getting people fighting it saying I can't be distracted by what I am distracted by. I don't find the orange circle an issue.

 

[KindJamz]

That can literally be applied to everything though. What is a molehill is a mountain for someone. I’m sure there is some business out there that is having a fit about the future of Intel in macs. To them, it’s a mountain.

And that comment was in the grand scheme of things. Mountain for everyone in the grand scheme = malware on macOS that’s spreading like wildfire. Molehill = orange circle showing on extra displays under certain conditions. And I provided why it’s not a mountain for all. It won’t bring down my business or clients business if it was there. For those that do have the issue there is a workaround.

And it is quite ridiculous. People commenting here make it sound like THIS ISSUE should be an immediate retraction or a fix to Monterey NOW because people are losing their jobs. So no I tried to bring this conversation back to earth and frankly got slapped for it. Generally threads on this site get way too out of hand, which frankly makes me lose interest in the site. Since joining in 2010, it’s just so tiresome anymore. And I tried to counter all the hate and disgust thrown around but I’m just not going to try anymore.

I guess next time someone reports an issue and I don’t experience it or try to help with workarounds, I guess I just can’t comment unless I think the exact same way as everyone else. Every thread lately is turning into this and frankly I’m so tired of it.

Nice rant. Feel better?

 

[KindJamz]

Not to me, movement draws my attention like crazy. If a spider moves while I am trying to work, it will severely distract me, even a small one. I see movement and my attention goes elsewhere. But a static non-moving thing? Sure I notice it, like I notice the podium in that same screen shot, or that lit up curtain in the same shot. I notice it, then don't really see it.

But to ME it sticks out like a sore thumb. See? It’s not about you

 

[Ethosik]

But to ME it sticks out like a sore thumb. See? It’s not about you

That was my entire point in the first place. Geez people its like we are fighting and saying the same thing. Everybody here says the orange circle is a big issue, I provided my thoughts and says its NOT an issue for me or my clients wouldn't matter. You do know it goes both ways right? Its not ALL about YOU either. THAT is ALL I am saying from the beginning. It can't be extremes. Not 100% of business and 100% of the worlds population would find this distracting, because at the very least I don't.

You have your opinions and I have mine. I have been saying this since my first post. I offered the counter opinion to all the Apple hate going on.

 

[PC_tech]

Just goes to show that people will go out of their way to find something trivial to complain about ??‍♂️

Like complaining about others complaining? Like that?

 

[hiphopdan]

To the people who say it’s not a big deal, how would you feel if you were a painter, and every work you did had an unwanted orange dot in the corner of it??

 

[montuori]

To the people who say it’s not a big deal, how would you feel if you were a painter, and every work you did had an unwanted orange dot in the corner of it??

I'd move the important content to the center of the image and cover the dot with electrical tape. Duh.

 

[fompsweeva]

Except when it takes away from the informative slides. I always miss crucial things especially the last few events where they list all those features since there is some movement going on. Again why I need to watch Apple events two or three times. Look I have said it many times that this is subjective, I am VERY sensitive to movement and its more distracting than a static image. Just like I don't find watermarks distracting. I still don't know why people are fighting me on this when its purely subjective experience. My two cents has turned into like 5 pages by now and its all "NOPE, not true!!!" so that means I can't operate differently?

Slides like this, when people move I miss out on some details, like Wifi-6? Nice to know! But I only see that on the second/third viewing because I get distracted by movement.

https://imgr.search.brave.com/xYpUzqP6jfE9gnyifv6oJ3Eg8-DchyQGUx6gqYIq0DI/fit/1200/1080/ce/1/aHR0cHM6Ly9pMS53/cC5jb20vbW96emls/bG8uY29tL3dwLWNv/bnRlbnQvdXBsb2Fk/cy8yMDE5LzA5L2Fw/cGxlLWV2ZW50LXNs/aWRlcy1kYXNoYm9h/cmQuanBlZz9maXQ9/MTkyMCUyQzEwODAm/c3NsPTE

This is like people fighting me for liking the color green. I offered my two cents what feels like 5 pages ago, and I keep getting people fighting it saying I can't be distracted by what I am distracted by. I don't find the orange circle an issue.

Okay, you don't find it an issue. An artist, technician or other content creator might. So are we cool? Would you miss the dot if it was gone?

 

[Ethosik]

Okay, you don't find it an issue. An artist, technician or other content creator might. So are we cool? Would you miss the dot if it was gone?

I have become friends with the dot so yeah I will miss it.

In all seriousness, not really. I do see the security benefit of having it. But same can be said about the watermarks I add to some stuff I make too. I can take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to me.

 

[BurgDog]

Apple is also inconsistent with how they use the dot. Enable Listen for Hey Siri and notice that the microphone active dot is NOT turned on when the microphone is obviously active.

You'll likely notice that it won't appear in any presentations Apple gives, they'll turn it off as an unwanted artifact. The mic active dot is software activated security theater that makes people feel better but is trivially bypassed. Overlaying it on presentation displays is just Apple being Apple inconveniencing people to get their "we care about security" message out.

There would be no impact on security if Apple made the warning a preference setting that required a password to turn off, just like all the other security features that are configurable with password protection, some much more important than being warned of a live mic. I don't expect Apple to actually do that though, as the orange dot is now part of Apple's marketing message about security.

To add - I don't trust warning lights about live cameras and live mics - I assume all warning lights can be hacked. Why I put a piece of tape over my iMac camera and avoid sensitive topics where mics live. Getting really hard with HomePods everywhere always listening and without a warning light.

 

[Ethosik]

There would be no impact on security if Apple made the warning a preference setting that required a password to turn off, just like all the other security features that are configurable with password protection, some much more important than being warned of a live mic.

Yep I am 100% on board with this being a setting. To those suggesting it would impact security, if the protected barrier for system settings gets broken, this orange dot is the least of your concerns with damage that can be done.

 

[1129846]

I have said that if its at the point where it brings down your business, DOWNGRADE TO BIG SUR!!! I have said this repeatedly! And you should NEVER EVER under any circumstances update a mission critical system to the point where it brings down your entire business. I have indeed addressed that side......many times. So please tell me how I’m not comprehending it when I clearly discussed it many times. And in no way did I say my experience should equate to all experiences. In fact, the opposite was implied where "don’t mind the circle? Unprofessional!" THAT was when I was calling for empathy or just seeing the other side instead of resorting to insults. I was in no way saying those losing their business should do that, but those saying I’m unprofessional for my stance should.

The problem with Apple is the shove OS updates down on us hard. They drop support very fast. With in 6 months you need to update to support the software you need to do your job.

That is not an option. Windows will provide years of support for an OS after the next one is released.

This solution is only good for 6-7 months at most.

 

[videosoul]

You'll likely notice that it won't appear in any presentations Apple gives, they'll turn it off as an unwanted artifact.

Maybe those presentations are not coming directly out of the main HDMI port, but rather through software that can handle external video encoders via Thunderbolt such as a Blackmagic UltraStudio or AJA T-TAP? That workflow would probably bypass the orange dot.

 

[Tompkinson]

I'd move the important content to the center of the image and cover the dot with electrical tape. Duh.

Excellent solution - problem solved!
I read recently that Renaissance painters da Vinci & Michelangelo actually invented Safe Title Areas, allegedly in 1552 in Florence. And that's why Genesis on Rome's Sistine Chapel ceiling is covered in little bits of electrical tape, despite the Pope being quite fond of the little orange dots all over the painting.

 

[videosoul]

I provided my thoughts and says its NOT an issue for me or my clients wouldn't matter.

Actually, you essentially said this is a non-issue for anyone working with video, because everyone ought to be adhering to title safe/action safe standards. You started off by essentially blaming users both for not following this standard (despite it being irrelevant in their use-case) and for using a new OS in professional workflows (and many people gave good reasons why that isn't a fair blanket statement).

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

Maybe don’t show it on secondary displays?? I totally get the convenience of having a visual indicator that something is recording you but having it on your main screen is enough

 

[BurgDog]

Maybe those presentations are not coming directly out of the main HDMI port, but rather through software that can handle external video encoders via Thunderbolt such as a Blackmagic UltraStudio or AJA T-TAP? That workflow would probably bypass the orange dot.

Likely if Mac software doesn't see it as a display it won't be able to claim it as part of the system and have the final say on what appears on it. Using external encoders via Thunderbolt is likely the better solution anyway as that bypasses all future issues of a similar sort that Apple could choose to do. Also it is sort of embarrassing when system messages show up during a presentation as well. That may make things more expensive and more limited, though, and adds an additional cost of using Macs for this purpose.