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Not that easy. I have about 20 patents myself, and it can be a stuff process. Not as stuff as decades ago, when one needed to bring a working model to the US office, but hard enough.

and the more patents granted, the easier it is for the examiner to reject your claims based on prior art keywords.

Just out of interest: Are you a software developer? Are you in favor of software patents?

The reason I'm asking is that I have yet to meet a software developer that is in favor of software patents. Most seem to think that they do more harm than good.
 
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Oh, how cute.. the Googlebots think they made a point.

Why shouldn't we discuss all facets of the story ? Apple is not good to Google's evil and vice versa.

As more and more patents pile on it becomes apparent that the industry is headed to a massive period of stagnation through sheer fear of patent infringement.
 
As more and more patents pile on it becomes apparent that the industry is headed to a massive period of stagnation through sheer fear of patent infringement.

An interesting theory. But one for which there is a staggering lack of actual evidence. In actual fact, quite the opposite is occurring - the pace of technological innovation in the smartphone business seems to be accelerating.

However, if one is seriously concerned about "stagnation" in the smartphone industry, then you ought to recognize that it is Google (via its Motorola acquisition) and Samsung that are the "bad guys" here. Because it is those companies that are basing their patent strategy on Standard-Essential (FRAND-encumbered) patents.

In very simple terms, it is technically possible to engineer around most of the software patents Apple is asserting. Even if a Judge rules that the Galaxy XYZ infringes upon Apple's "slide to unlock" or other patents, it is possible for Samsung to implement a non-infringing workaround.

But by their very nature, the Standard-Essential IP that Google and Samsung is asserting cannot be worked around. And that any company that wants to enter the smartphone business (be it Apple, HTC, Nokia, or some unknown startup) HAS to deal with companies that have a demonstrated history of demanding unreasonable royalties on the FRAND-encumbered patents they hold.

Fortunately, more and more Jurists, politicians, and officials of Standard Setting Organizations, as well as anti-monopoly regulators in both Europe and the US, are getting wise to the danger posed by the abuse of FRAND-encumbered IP. Its just too bad that more internet commentators don't seem to understand the problem.
 
Again : by the fact that Apple has lost more motions/claims than they have won. They've also even lost patents over the whole ordeal, having them invalidated after trying to use them against other competitors.

That is how we perceive Apple to be abusing the patent system to slow down the competition.

How do you know that the reason Apple's patents were invalidated was because they were trying to use them against competitors? The patents were invalidated because they were found invalid, not because Apple tried to use them against competitors.

You would do exactly what Apple is doing if it were up to you. I'd like to see how you would like it if you invested resources into developing something and then someone else uses it with impunity.
 
How do you know that the reason Apple's patents were invalidated was because they were trying to use them against competitors? The patents were invalidated because they were found invalid, not because Apple tried to use them against competitors.

Had Apple not use them in that case, would they have been reviewed (and therefore invalidated)?

They may have still owned them to this day if not.
 
An interesting theory. But one for which there is a staggering lack of actual evidence. In actual fact, quite the opposite is occurring - the pace of technological innovation in the smartphone business seems to be accelerating.

So is the pace of lawsuits and injunctions it seems. ;) That is evidence enough for me. What good is a device that brings tons of technological innovation if it never gets to market because it happens to infringe 1 patent for 1 feature out of 3000 on the device ?
However, if one is seriously concerned about "stagnation" in the smartphone industry, then you ought to recognize that it is Google (via its Motorola acquisition) and Samsung that are the "bad guys" here. Because it is those companies that are basing their patent strategy on Standard-Essential (FRAND-encumbered) patents.

Wait, Apple has to pay for those. They aren't paying. There's nothing wrong with suing for patent infringement until Apple pays their fair and reasonable tariff. Apple isn't paying because they feel the tariff asked isn't fair. But you know what ? Apple doesn't get to set Fair. They can cry and whine to regulatory bodies for investigations all they want over it.

Look what happened in the Nokia case, they ended up paying.

Typical pro-Apple, against-Everyone post by vrDrew is typical.

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How do you know that the reason Apple's patents were invalidated was because they were trying to use them against competitors? The patents were invalidated because they were found invalid, not because Apple tried to use them against competitors.

Hum, if Apple had never used the patents in a lawsuit, they wouldn't have been invalidated. That is what I meant. The reason we're saying Apple isn't trying to even protect their IP is that their IP is shaky to begin with. They pile on the claims, as high as possible, in hopes something sticks.

They don't seem to care about losing patents, as long as they find something, somehow that will result in a preliminary injunction or some extra work for the competition.

Their goal is not IP protection, it's slowing down the competition.
 
Apple has such simple designs that sometimes, you can't help but find similarities. Every square is a rectangle, not every rectangle is a square. So frankly, I've never really cared for the outward appearance of a device.

I don't fault tablet makers for following in Apple's footsteps and ditching the tablet form factor from the days of ol'. However, if I came up with an original (please don't send me pictures of images from 2001. I'm referring to real world products) device that became extremely popular, and then saw another company mimicking practically everything I did right down to the actors from my commercials, I'd be seriously PO'ed someone was trying to make a dollar off my back.

As for "simple design," I find that seems to be something with which most companies have great difficulty. One of the things people for which Jobs was praised was his ability to say "no."

Also, you're confusing my opinion of all of this "copying business". I know there's probably plenty of "inspiration" going on and its a game of trying to get away with "as close to but not infringing on" in the industry at large (electronics). The thing is, Apple is as guilty of this.

I'll be bold and guess you are referring to Apple's visit to XEROX' PARC. In that event, it is my understanding that XEROX received APPL stock in exchange for access to the Smalltalk development system and any "inspiration." Did Samsung visit Cupertino recently?

Yes, Bill Gates has been trying to sell tablet PCs for years. However, it took Apple to come up with a new approach that resonated with the public to the point of disrupting the PC industry.

What I find most shocking though is that only Apple seems to be playing victim. "Do as I say, not as I do", hypocrites if you will. If Apple didn't try to pass off everyone else as "copycats" and what they do as "fresh and innovative", then I wouldn't give a crap.

But frankly, if you ask me, if it were as simple as you think it was and so obvious, Apple would have many court victories and wouldn't have to rely on obscure and obtusely worded patents to get injunctions and court victories. They'd go straight for trademark and trade dress. While they still do, those aren't the victories they're getting. Right now, they're pretty much 2 - 1 on designs (patents and EU design registrations, not even trademarks) and we haven't yet heard anything on the trade dress front.

So maybe it's not as obvious as you think it is uh ? ;)

Not to mention, again, pot meets kettle :

http://www.cultofmac.com/99951/cydia-dev-apple-stole-both-my-idea-and-my-icon-for-wifi-sync/

I won't say Apple doesn't have some blood on its hands in its history (ex. Watson), but didn't the Zune have WiFi sync back in 2007? Also, it was a forgone conclusion at the time that the application was rejected that WiFi syncing was headed to iOS soon. That almost like Apple releasing the iOS without an address book and then being barred from ever doing their own after devs put out address books in the app store. Now if Apple's address book looks almost exactly like or ridiculously similar to another dev's address book, I would gladly ding Apple.

On a side note (and not to start another conversation), I find it interesting the differences between Apple and Microsoft dealing with Android. Apple seems unwilling to compromise on what it believes it pilfering of its work while Microsoft seems very satisfied with licensing agreements.

As for the current score board in the great Patent Wars, any attorney worth his or her salt will tell you the law is from from perfect, including Judge Posner.

I just don't believe Samsung has innovation in its DNA when it comes to consumer products and is mimicking Apple beyond the point of good taste. I tell you what, though, if Apple's TV is a ripoff of the craptastic Samsungs I mistakenly bought in 2010 (2 out of 3 went belly up at the 13 month mark - thank goodness for extended warranties!), I will gladly concede.

Of course, first they have to infringe, not just look somewhat similar.

Thank you for that breakdown! Fascinating. However, I prefer hard science. ;)
 
So is the pace of lawsuits and injunctions it seems. ;) That is evidence enough for me.

That is evidence of nothing more than the fact that there are a lot of issues - and a tremendous amount of money - at stake.

Wait, Apple has to pay for those. They aren't paying. There's nothing wrong with suing for patent infringement until Apple pays their fair and reasonable tariff.

I thunk you fail to understand the facts here: In point of fact, Motorola has started demanding Standard-Essential patent royalties that are - by any reasonable definition - ridiculous. Look at what they are doing with Microsoft:

Motorola has refused to make its patents available at anything remotely close to a reasonable price. For a $1,000 laptop, Motorola is demanding that Microsoft pay a royalty of $22.50 for its 50 patents on the video standard, called H.264. As it turns out, there are at least 2,300 other patents needed to implement this standard. They are available from a group of 29 companies that came together to offer their H.264 patents to the industry on FRAND terms. Microsoft’s patent royalty to this group on that $1,000 laptop?

Two cents.

Motorola is demanding $22 from the sale price of a laptop for its 2% share of the H.264 patent pool - while the holders of the other 98% of the patents have been satisfied with two cents.

Please, seriously, tell me again that Motorola isn't the company a) demanding unreasonable royalties and b) hampering innovation.
 
Glad Apple won. Glad Google can write their own code work-around to satisfy the courts. Sounds like a win-win. Apple's competitors need to see that they can't rip the boys from Cupertino off, but it also shows that with a little elbow grease, they can get the results they need to be competitive.

let the competition begin. I would like to have some real options to push the iPhone.

If iPhone 5 lives up to the hype...then I will be on my 4th gen iPhone.
 
Motorola is demanding $22 from the sale price of a laptop for its 2% share of the H.264 patent pool - while the holders of the other 98% of the patents have been satisfied with two cents.

Please, seriously, tell me again that Motorola isn't the company a) demanding unreasonable royalties and b) hampering innovation.

Not every patent is equal. Motorola's 2% of patent numbers might represent 98% of the spec for all we know. We're not judges. Fair and reasonable doesn't mean whatever you want to pay if you want to pay. It just means everyone gets a fair price that's reasonable in the bonds of what you're licensing.

It doesn't mean you get to not pay for patents, it also doesn't mean you pay the same thing as the other guy.
 
Hanghai Zhizhen Network Technology now is going to sue Apple as they have patents for Siri.
 
Why do so many people keep saying this? The new Nexus and SSGIII are forcing the iPhone to play catch up. This isn't 2011 anymore.

I have seen these phones. And what 'advantages' they have are just because the latest iPhone hasn't been released. Plus android is still an issue.

I haven't seen any reason to move from the iPhone yet. Hoping wp8 will bring something new to consider.
 
Why do so many people keep saying this? The new Nexus and SSGIII are forcing the iPhone to play catch up. This isn't 2011 anymore.

Galaxy SIII maybe. Nexus? Not so much. Unless "bigger screen" is seen as an amazing improvement instead of simply a design choice.

And I don't know about "forcing" the iPhone to play catch up. The iPhone comes out once a year. Just about any high end phone coming out several months later is going to have more advanced hardware. But do you say Apple is forcing Samsung to "play catch up" if the iPhone is the last device released at the particular time?
 
But do you say Apple is forcing Samsung to "play catch up" if the iPhone is the last device released at the particular time?

Well, frankly, seeing what the iPhone 4S was when released compared to Samsung models out at the time, no I would not say that. Samsung had nothing to catch up to.

And yes, I'm a day 1 iPhone 4S owner. Sometimes though, it's hard to deny reality. Apple has been in catch up mode for 2 years now, both with their iOS features and their devices.
 
Well, frankly, seeing what the iPhone 4S was when released compared to Samsung models out at the time, no I would not say that. Samsung had nothing to catch up to.

And yes, I'm a day 1 iPhone 4S owner. Sometimes though, it's hard to deny reality. Apple has been in catch up mode for 2 years now, both with their iOS features and their devices.

I guess... sounds like opinion unless you have specific areas to cite. It's not my personal one.

GPU in the Nexus isn't as good as the 4S (in fact it's downright poor for a late 2011 - early 2012 phone). Camera not as good. Battery life not as good. OS not as smooth. Screen arguably not as good (higher logical resolution but... PenTile). First tier high quality apps still available first (or only) on the 4S.

I didn't think the Galaxy Nexus was anything special at all. A good phone, with some advantages over the 4S (as there always are), but nothing to make me think it was overall better than the 4S or that Apple desperately needed to "catch up" to it. The SIII is a different story, came out months later and actually has better technology and improved build of 4.0.
 
Galaxy SIII maybe. Nexus? Not so much. Unless "bigger screen" is seen as an amazing improvement instead of simply a design choice.

And I don't know about "forcing" the iPhone to play catch up. The iPhone comes out once a year. Just about any high end phone coming out several months later is going to have more advanced hardware. But do you say Apple is forcing Samsung to "play catch up" if the iPhone is the last device released at the particular time?

Actually, the galaxy nexus is far superior to the 4S in many categories. CPU, Graphics, LTE, Better responsive GPS, 0 shutter speed camera... I can keep going :D
 
I guess... sounds like opinion unless you have specific areas to cite. It's not my personal one.

GPU in the Nexus isn't as good as the 4S (in fact it's downright poor for a late 2011 - early 2012 phone). Camera not as good. Battery life not as good. OS not as smooth. Screen arguably not as good (higher logical resolution but... PenTile). First tier high quality apps still available first (or only) on the 4S.

I didn't think the Galaxy Nexus was anything special at all. A good phone, with some advantages over the 4S (as there always are), but nothing to make me think it was overall better than the 4S or that Apple desperately needed to "catch up" to it. The SIII is a different story, came out months later and actually has better technology and improved build of 4.0.

You do realize the galaxy nexus is severely under clocked at stock right? With the right kernel, it competes with top tablets in speed and performance. Add jelly bean and it makes this phone insanely good.

BTW, retina technology... guess who made that... Samsung. But god forbid they can't use it on their phones because apple would just sue them.
 
Actually, the galaxy nexus is far superior to the 4S in many categories. CPU, Graphics, LTE, Better responsive GPS, 0 shutter speed camera... I can keep going :D

Graphics? The Galaxy Nexus has a PowerVR SGX 540 GPU. That is not even close to the PowerVR SGX 543MP2 in the iPhone 4S. This is one of those cases where a direct comparison is easy since both GPUs are produced by the same vendor. Are you sure you meant to say "Graphics"? :confused:

I've never heard about GPS response, maybe you have a link. LTE is a definite Nexus advantage for cellular. The CPU is 50% higher clocked but the device doesn't perform anywhere near 50% faster in tests that can be run on both- but I guess in theory that makes it "better". Yes, 0 shutter speed is one thing that makes a camera better, higher resolution and better low light performance is another, where the iPhone 4S comes out on top.

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You do realize the galaxy nexus is severely under clocked at stock right? With the right kernel, it competes with top tablets in speed and performance. Add jelly bean and it makes this phone insanely good.

BTW, retina technology... guess who made that... Samsung. But god forbid they can't use it on their phones because apple would just sue them.

So you're saying... Samsung underclocked the Galaxy Nexus in error, and if only they had done what they should have, it would be even faster? Makes no sense. I guess Samsung should hire someone to use the "right kernel" because there are no tradeoffs to overclocking it, they just made a mistake. :rolleyes:

And your remark about "retina technology", were we even discussing that? Or which technology Samsung uses? I didn't say the Nexus was a bad phone, I just don't personally see it as superior to the iPhone 4S, and I gave the reasons why I have that opinion.
 
I guess... sounds like opinion unless you have specific areas to cite. It's not my personal one.

On the OS front :

- Wallpapers
- Multi-tasking
- MMS
- Copy/Paste
- OTA updates
- Navigation in their maps/GPS module
- WiFi Syncing

I won't go on.

Hardware side :

- High resolution screen
- Good front camera
- Better back camera (using the Xperia Arc's camera close to 8 months after said Xperia was released).

GPU in the Nexus isn't as good as the 4S (in fact it's downright poor for a late 2011 - early 2012 phone). Camera not as good. Battery life not as good. OS not as smooth. Screen arguably not as good (higher logical resolution but... PenTile). First tier high quality apps still available first (or only) on the 4S.

SAMOLED+ is not pentile. It's full RGB. And I'd argue any OLED (even normal SAMOLED used in the 720p phones) trumps the LCD in the iPhone from a visual standpoint. So no, that's just to your opinion on the screen. I love the retina display, but Samsung's OLED stuff blows me away.

OS not as smooth is again your opinion. All the Android phones I've played with have been as smooth as my iPhone. My iPhone 4S stutters sometimes and has a couple of areas where loading time and non-responsiveness still show. Apple in fact recommends App developers present a static screenshot of the App while loading it, so it seems the app opened instantly, but in reality, it's not ready :

http://developer.apple.com/library/....html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40007072-CH6-SW12
When the system launches an app, it temporarily displays a static launch image on the screen. Your app provides this image, with the image contents usually containing a prerendered version of your app’s default user interface. The purpose of this image is to give the user immediate feedback that the app launched, but it also gives your app time to initialize itself and prepare its initial set of views for display. When your app is ready to run, the system removes the image and displays your app’s windows and views.

And did you say battery life ? No. The iPhone hasn't had an advantage there in the longest time. Idle time is the same or close for both devices, and we all remember the issues many iOS 5 users faced with battery drain. Or I do at least.

I really feel Apple is playing catch-up. SoCs have been the only area where they have shown, heads above Qualcomm's Snapdragon, nVidia's Tegra or Samsung's Exynos platform.
 
On the OS front :


SAMOLED+ is not pentile. It's full RGB. And I'd argue any OLED (even normal SAMOLED used in the 720p phones) trumps the LCD in the iPhone from a visual standpoint. So no, that's just to your opinion on the screen. I love the retina display, but Samsung's OLED stuff blows me away.

The Galaxy Nexus is not SAMOLED+. It's "non-plus"- it's PenTile. This was gone over repeatedly when it was released. It's good but it doesn't blow the iPhone 4S screen away. In fact some people (me not included) don't like the PenTile arrangement at all after they "learn" to notice that it's there.
(Responding to that one because it's factually inaccurate - the rest are opinions and personal experience and we're not going to convince each other with any of those :)
 
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The Galaxy Nexus is not SAMOLED+. It's "non-plus"- it's PenTile. This was gone over repeatedly when it was released. It's good but it doesn't blow the iPhone 4S screen away. In fact some people (me not included) don't like the PenTile arrangement at all after they "learn" to notice that it's there.

I know the Nexus is not SAMOLED+, I did cover that in my post if you bothered to read it. And it blows me away compared to the iPhone 4S, sorry. That point remains firmly in the realm of opinions, you're allowed to yours, but you're not allowed to state it as fact.
 
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