Barclays: iPhone 12 Pro and Pro Max Will Likely Have 6GB of RAM, iPhone SE 2 Production to Begin February

[Abazigal]

Trivial things that Apple copies year after year after year. Is LTE a trivial thing? How about 5G? OLED? RAM? Multi-unit cameras? I thought one extra camera was the highlight of iPhone 11 and you say it's a trivial thing. Next year Apple is going to add TOF sensor (Samsung phones already have it). Was NFC a trivial thing? How about wireless charging? These features define modern smartphones, they are anything but trivial.

This feels less like a list of what Apple has copied, and more of a testament of exactly how well their product managers prioritized the right things in the right order.

I have noticed that Apple not only times their updates to coincide with major rollouts (eg: my country would get 4g at around the same time the iPhone 5 was announced), but also makes an effort to push for the adoption of those features (such as working with banks to support Apple Pay, and even releasing their own credit card). The end result is that these features often feel more refined and better supported when they do get released.

The iPhone 11 is Apple’s best selling iPhone despite not having an OLED display. This adds to a convening theme where products like the AirPods, Apple Watch and TV+ original content are connecting with their users even as they get bashed mercilessly by nameless, faceless online critics.

Meanwhile, while the list of features that android has over iOS diminishes year after year, there are certain aspects of iOS that android will never be able to mimic, such as a curated App Store, or their long-term software support, or a thriving wearables platform. This in turn forces android OEMs to focus on hardware to get around what is a nonexistent software and services ecosystem, resulting in very questionable product releases like the folding phone, which I believe will serve to only further accelerate their own downward spiral.

I mean, the AirPods are on the cusp of becoming its own wearables platform, and the haters online are still whining about the removal of the headphone jack. That’s just how disconnected from reality they are.

Apple is inevitable. You will see. They will all see.

 

[CyberBob859]

As an iPhone 8 owner, I feel like purchasing the next SE, honestly I'm so used to this size, (that's what she said), I don't see myself switching to a bigger phone. However, those 5,4 inch iPhones are tempting, but if they are expensive (1.000 or more) that's out of my reach. Also I don't need 5G, and I sleep with my phone near my head, and I don't want a miliwave emitting device near my head all night. Also no mili-wave instalations on my town so it would probably be wise to be able to deactivate the EHF frequencies and use only the 600/700 mHZ

Regarding the SE, I'd buy the red one, as all my phone's have been grey, but I'm aftaid I'll end up getting tired of red color.

The rumored "SE 2" sounds like an upgraded 8. If it has the A13 processor (offering improved performance and battery life), an XR camera system, different colors, while starting at $400, then it's a solid low-end iPhone.

 

[spotlight07]

I really hope that they could offer a smaller sized iPhone with as much or better features than the current / previous model (say, fall 2019 chip in spring 2020 for example). It’s fine if it costs more, obviously the parts are more confined so it should cost more than a flagship 6-inch phone. If I could get a smaller iPhone with the same power as the flagship I would switch to a smaller one at any cost. An underpowered smaller iPhone however is of no interest to me. I think I’m not alone in that phones are just too big these days.

 

[PickUrPoison]

I really hope that they could offer a smaller sized iPhone with as much or better features than the current / previous model (say, fall 2019 chip in spring 2020 for example). It’s fine if it costs more, obviously the parts are more confined so it should cost more than a flagship 6-inch phone. If I could get a smaller iPhone with the same power as the flagship I would switch to a smaller one at any cost. An underpowered smaller iPhone however is of no interest to me. I think I’m not alone in that phones are just too big these days.

You’re in luck The 4.7” “SE2”, even though only $399, is rumored to have the same A13 as the 6.5” iPhone 11 Pro Max, priced at $1,099. It’s going to be a powerhouse.

 

[giebe]

I should be an analyst too. There is nothing new and concerning the iPhone 12 it’s pretty much the logical technical evolution. Everyone with a technical understanding can imagine how the iPhone 12 might be

 

[Whathappened]

Really, really hope the 3D sensing rear cameras would be used for better Portrait shots, except the usual AR stuff that Apple talks about but minority of us use.

Minority? Where do you know that from? I rarely use peortrait mode and hope they will continue their strong approach to AR.
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You’re in luck The 4.7” “SE2”, even though only $399, is rumored to have the same A13 as the 6.5” iPhone 11 Pro Max, priced at $1,099. It’s going to be a powerhouse.

Yeah but not much to use that power for. And no Face ID

 

[mag33]

@those who argue inventiveness- It's not about who invented what first, it's about who does it better. And that's undoubtedly Apple with their iOS.

 

[The Game 161]

Guessing the new Ipad pros will also have 6GB of ram

 

[falainber]

As is a big forehead, chin, pop up flash etc.


64 bit, native screen recording, sync across devices, send and receive money in message, performance control, Heif, AirPlay 2. So what?

You do realize that most of these are rather marginal improvements, right? Besides, many of them are just Apple specific names for the features/services that existed on other platforms including Android.
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This feels less like a list of what Apple has copied, and more of a testament of exactly how well their product managers prioritized the right things in the right order.

I have noticed that Apple not only times their updates to coincide with major rollouts (eg: my country would get 4g at around the same time the iPhone 5 was announced), but also makes an effort to push for the adoption of those features (such as working with banks to support Apple Pay, and even releasing their own credit card). The end result is that these features often feel more refined and better supported when they do get released.

The iPhone 11 is Apple’s best selling iPhone despite not having an OLED display. This adds to a convening theme where products like the AirPods, Apple Watch and TV+ original content are connecting with their users even as they get bashed mercilessly by nameless, faceless online critics.

Meanwhile, while the list of features that android has over iOS diminishes year after year, there are certain aspects of iOS that android will never be able to mimic, such as a curated App Store, or their long-term software support, or a thriving wearables platform. This in turn forces android OEMs to focus on hardware to get around what is a nonexistent software and services ecosystem, resulting in very questionable product releases like the folding phone, which I believe will serve to only further accelerate their own downward spiral.

I mean, the AirPods are on the cusp of becoming its own wearables platform, and the haters online are still whining about the removal of the headphone jack. That’s just how disconnected from reality they are.

Apple is inevitable. You will see. They will all see.

Wow. "Curated app store"? You mean the app store with way more restrictions than Play Store? Nonexistent software and services ecosystem that has more software and services than iOS ecosystem? Thriving wearables platform? This must refer to the armbands because there are way more types of wearable devices in Android ecosystem. AirPods are decent earbuds but that's it. There are plenty of those from tons of vendors.

 

[Abazigal]

Wow. "Curated app store"? You mean the app store with way more restrictions than Play Store?

I am referring to the app store which gets apps first or exclusively, and seems to do a better job of keeping rogue apps out (considering that Ars Technica seems to call out android way more).

Nonexistent software and services ecosystem that has more software and services than iOS ecosystem?

The issue is that all the android OEMs are reliant on google services, which doesn’t exactly leave them a lot of room for differentiation.

Not to mention google services are available on ios as well.

Thriving wearables platform? This must refer to the armbands because there are way more types of wearable devices in Android ecosystem.

Only if you want to equate cheap xiaomi trackers with apple watches.

Else, at the rate things are going, there won’t be a wearables market, only an apple watch market, as evidenced by the recent sale of Fitbit to Google, and I am willing to bet that Google won’t be able to do anything meaningful with said acquisition either. They simply lack the design chops that Apple possesses to make wearables work.

AirPods are decent earbuds but that's it. There are plenty of those from tons of vendors.

Airpods may well become their own platform in time.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2019/11/19/airpods-are-becoming-a-platform

Just like how the ipod had ~70% market share at its peak but virtually all the mindshare, I foresee a similar future with the airpods as well, where the airpods are able to garner at least 2/3 market share but also retaining the same iconic design that will go on to define the wireless earbuds category.

As with the iphone, the ipad, the ios app store, the apple watch, we may well see a similar situation play out here as well, where Apple sucks all the oxygen and profits out of a particular market, leaving only scraps for the rest of the competition to fight over.

At the end of the day, everything Apple does feels methodical, well-thought out, and clearly sets the stage for some bigger plan in the future.

So while you can point out how some other competitor has had a feature way earlier than Apple, it doesn’t seem to have done them much good, and I guess my point is that it won’t really mean much in the greater scheme of things.

 

[I7guy]

You do realize that most of these are rather marginal improvements, right?

One persons' "marginal improvement" is another persons' "can't live without". The point is that this is subjective. So it's just as easy for me to say that most of your list are actually minor, window dressing type of updates without qualifying my thought process. (But now we are going to argue about the veracity of each feature and/or function?)

64 bit basically changed the landscape of mobile computing and it took a year for competitors to get to 64 and Apple zoomed past them in the performance and benchmark standards. Same with touch id and face id.

Besides, many of them are just Apple specific names for the features/services that existed on other platforms including Android.
...

Incorrect. They are apple specific names for features/services that Apple implemented first and android copied.

 

[alpi123]

Minority? Where do you know that from? I rarely use peortrait mode and hope they will continue their strong approach to AR.
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Yeah but not much to use that power for. And no Face ID

Portrait mode users are much more than those who use AR apps or games. Of course Apple will adapt their depth camera for AR because they really seem to like it, but I'm hoping they will integrate it into the Portrait mode as well because it will allow for much better depth map, which photos will benefit from.

 

[CyberBob859]

That's definitely one scenario that can play out. Unless Kuo is wrong and the 5.4" is a non-pro model, another possible scenario is this:

iPhone 12 (5.4" & 6.1")
iPhone 12 Pro (5.8" & 6.7")

Actually, this is exactly the scenario that I hope plays out. My biggest complaint with the iPhone 11 is the size. A 5.4" version could have a physical size about the same as the iPhone 8, but with the current design language of the iPhone XR and 11. Count me in at that point.

 

[Ramchi]

I am referring to the app store which gets apps first or exclusively, and seems to do a better job of keeping rogue apps out (considering that Ars Technica seems to call out android way more).



The issue is that all the android OEMs are reliant on google services, which doesn’t exactly leave them a lot of room for differentiation.

Not to mention google services are available on ios as well.



Only if you want to equate cheap xiaomi trackers with apple watches.

Else, at the rate things are going, there won’t be a wearables market, only an apple watch market, as evidenced by the recent sale of Fitbit to Google, and I am willing to bet that Google won’t be able to do anything meaningful with said acquisition either. They simply lack the design chops that Apple possesses to make wearables work.



Airpods may well become their own platform in time.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2019/11/19/airpods-are-becoming-a-platform

Just like how the ipod had ~70% market share at its peak but virtually all the mindshare, I foresee a similar future with the airpods as well, where the airpods are able to garner at least 2/3 market share but also retaining the same iconic design that will go on to define the wireless earbuds category.

As with the iphone, the ipad, the ios app store, the apple watch, we may well see a similar situation play out here as well, where Apple sucks all the oxygen and profits out of a particular market, leaving only scraps for the rest of the competition to fight over.

At the end of the day, everything Apple does feels methodical, well-thought out, and clearly sets the stage for some bigger plan in the future.

So while you can point out how some other competitor has had a feature way earlier than Apple, it doesn’t seem to have done them much good, and I guess my point is that it won’t really mean much in the greater scheme of things.

You are comparing vendors(eg: Cheap Xiomi which is a vendor but Android as a platform has many), OS, ecosystems interchangeably to suit the narrative of Apple, which is not an issue but in the Android world, there is no need for users sticking with one OEM hence your views may be slightly blurred ! I was using Motorola made Google watch, now Samsung Frontier and I may change it to something else based on the features vs price. I can have totally different experience within the same platform in Android.

Android is pretty open and innovative features, choices, form factors, sizes ....are plenty...and Apple is realising this and their dream run on high margin mobile business will only get further reduced if they don’t address cost vs features (larger RAM, Larger Screen, multiple price points like XR & 11) their market share with new products will continue to decline(Europe recently witnessed YoY drop in the sales volume) and there is so much they can increase the prices of their cash cow to keep their investors happy(& loyal users unhappy)...

 

[I7guy]

You are comparing vendors(eg: Cheap Xiomi which is a vendor but Android as a platform has many), OS, ecosystems interchangeably to suit the narrative of Apple, which is not an issue but in the Android world, there is no need for users sticking with one OEM hence your views may be slightly blurred ! I was using Motorola made Google watch, now Samsung Frontier and I may change it to something else based on the features vs price. I can have totally different experience within the same platform in Android.

That you like switching watches, is a bonus for you within android. Apple Watch is killing it in the wearables sector. There must be a reason for it.

Android is pretty open and innovative features, choices, form factors, sizes ....are plenty...and Apple is realising this and their dream run on high margin mobile business will only get further reduced if they don’t address cost vs features (larger RAM, Larger Screen, multiple price points like XR & 11) their market share with new products will continue to decline(Europe recently witnessed YoY drop in the sales volume) and there is so much they can increase the prices of their cash cow to keep their investors happy(& loyal users unhappy)...

You consider innovation form factors and sizes? Larger/smaller? Apple is not market share driven. What does market share gain android? It was already shown in another thread, one the best selling phones is the XR (if you believe the numbers that is from third party reporters). With Apple taking the lion's share of profits in the mobile phone sector, it shows market share is not a relevant metric. Except for google who collects royalties from android. And while there are those loyal users that are unhappy, which can't be helped with a billion customers, there must be a majority that choose Apple over the competition to get revenues of $65B.

 

[FelixDerKater]

iPhone going Amiga style.

 

[nexusrule]

Trivial things that Apple copies year after year after year. Is LTE a trivial thing? How about 5G? OLED? RAM? Multi-unit cameras? I thought one extra camera was the highlight of iPhone 11 and you say it's a trivial thing. Next year Apple is going to add TOF sensor (Samsung phones already have it). Was NFC a trivial thing? How about wireless charging? These features define modern smartphones, they are anything but trivial.

Samsung can add the world to their phones, the problem is what they add is always unpolished and doesn’t get traction. They have 5G when is nowhere to be found and when the chip are still massive and draw a lot of power. Apple added OLED when it made sense interface wise to have a full screen phone with Face ID and rounded corners to change the form factor. RAM is not something that someone copies, iPhone added more RAM when it was necessary, i.e. now that they do a lot of real time image processing and machine learning, Samsung needed more RAM just to ensure normal functionalities because the software and hardware is not optimised. Apple always did what they do, even they only made computers, adding new technologies when they make sense and they have a use for it, not just to check a box based on number of features regardless of how this feature are sensible and polished, and it always worked well for them.

Also, listen to yourself you said that modern smartphones are defined by LTE, 5G and RAM...

 

[Abazigal]

You are comparing vendors(eg: Cheap Xiomi which is a vendor but Android as a platform has many), OS, ecosystems interchangeably to suit the narrative of Apple, which is not an issue but in the Android world, there is no need for users sticking with one OEM hence your views may be slightly blurred ! I was using Motorola made Google watch, now Samsung Frontier and I may change it to something else based on the features vs price. I can have totally different experience within the same platform in Android.

Hence my initial response that android smartphones pretty much push the same filling. You get a little bit of variety with hardware, but the underlying software stays large the same, and that's really what makes all the difference for me.

No android phone is going to get overcast, Apollo, Tweetbot or fantastical, and the app disparity grows even more stark once I cross over to tablets.

Fitbit lost to the Apple Watch for a reason. I guess one could argue that using an Apple Watch locks me to an iPhone, but I think it's also safe to say that no android smartwatch comes close to matching the Apple Watch in terms of design or functionality. To be honest, I find the wearables strategy on the android front to be a mess, and I believe this disparity will become even more stark in the coming years.

Android is pretty open and innovative features, choices, form factors, sizes ....are plenty...and Apple is realising this and their dream run on high margin mobile business will only get further reduced if they don’t address cost vs features (larger RAM, Larger Screen, multiple price points like XR & 11) their market share with new products will continue to decline(Europe recently witnessed YoY drop in the sales volume) and there is so much they can increase the prices of their cash cow to keep their investors happy(& loyal users unhappy)...

Again, it's all hardware. By and large, I have not been very impressed by what the smartphone market has been showing us. Folding phones simply do not spark imagination or intrigue, their wearables strategy is clearly not going to go anywhere, and the biggest problem I see is the OEM's inability to offer cohesive experiences, exacerbated by their lack of control over software and services.

What I like about my Apple devices is the whole integrated experience, made possible by the interplay of hardware, software and services. You look at what Apple is doing and it's hard not to see how they are clearly laying the foundation for AR glasses and a thriving wearables ecosystem. You see how Apple is setting the stage for the future. With other OEMs, it's the opposite. I see no coherent vision for the future.

It's no surprise why one company has the lion's share of profits in the market.

 

[Ramchi]

That you like switching watches, is a bonus for you within android. Apple Watch is killing it in the wearables sector. There must be a reason for it.


You consider innovation form factors and sizes? Larger/smaller? Apple is not market share driven. What does market share gain android? It was already shown in another thread, one the best selling phones is the XR (if you believe the numbers that is from third party reporters). With Apple taking the lion's share of profits in the mobile phone sector, it shows market share is not a relevant metric. Except for google who collects royalties from android. And while there are those loyal users that are unhappy, which can't be helped with a billion customers, there must be a majority that choose Apple over the competition to get revenues of $65B.

Just for your information, most Android OEMs making profits while selling a comparable flagship products at much affordable price points. Most Android users keep switching their Android mobiles enjoying the freedom, choices, convenience; If Apple leading in profit making, good for them, but it is certainly not good for me or useful for me. I use iPhones if needed and happily switch to Android (I have used BB Passport, Nokia, iPhone, Windows Mobile lumia 920XL etc) when I see good value for money.

Market Share eventually becomes the dominating factors for any ecosystem to thrive. Android is the safest ecosystem for any app developer in terms of reaching out to maximum user base(while Apple happily takes away minimum 30-35% on every single payment transaction towards apps in its ecosystem) . In each region, geography, country, state, linguistic ethnicity Android dominates overwhelmingly...while Apple taking the maximum profits which Android users are not worried about..
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Hence my initial response that android smartphones pretty much push the same filling. You get a little bit of variety with hardware, but the underlying software stays large the same, and that's really what makes all the difference for me.

No android phone is going to get overcast, Apollo, Tweetbot or fantastical, and the app disparity grows even more stark once I cross over to tablets.

Fitbit lost to the Apple Watch for a reason. I guess one could argue that using an Apple Watch locks me to an iPhone, but I think it's also safe to say that no android smartwatch comes close to matching the Apple Watch in terms of design or functionality. To be honest, I find the wearables strategy on the android front to be a mess, and I believe this disparity will become even more stark in the coming years.



Again, it's all hardware. By and large, I have not been very impressed by what the smartphone market has been showing us. Folding phones simply do not spark imagination or intrigue, their wearables strategy is clearly not going to go anywhere, and the biggest problem I see is the OEM's inability to offer cohesive experiences, exacerbated by their lack of control over software and services.

What I like about my Apple devices is the whole integrated experience, made possible by the interplay of hardware, software and services. You look at what Apple is doing and it's hard not to see how they are clearly laying the foundation for AR glasses and a thriving wearables ecosystem. You see how Apple is setting the stage for the future. With other OEMs, it's the opposite. I see no coherent vision for the future.

It's no surprise why one company has the lion's share of profits in the market.

On the contrary to your The Ecosystem red herrings, most Android users happily switch, change, replace their OEM vendors right, left and centre creating healthy competitive ecosystem in Android and offers best value for money in terms price vs features, while OEMs instead individually investing on their resources on the same technology, focusing collective innocation, optimisation of supply chain, providing varying user experience without losing the standards and advantages of Android platform, optimising overall cost of production providing great value for the consumers(120 Hz 6.5 AMOLED inches onscreen finger print scanner with 6000 mA battery 8-12 GB RAM , 128/512 GB storage for almost 1/3 to half the price of iPhone 11 Pro / 11 Pro Max 256 GB....

I can buy for the entire family instead of buying one expensive mobile!

Thanks for the choices we seem to have

 

[knirirr]

If they actually bling it out with a dual lens and 256GB version, I'm all in on upgrading my 8 and keeping that SE2/8SE/9 for the next 2-3 years. I still love the 6-8 form factor.

Same here. 128GB = no sale.

 

[mag33]

120 Hz 6.5 AMOLED inches onscreen finger print scanner with 6000 mA battery 8-12 GB RAM , 128/512 GB storage for almost 1/3 to half the price of iPhone 11 Pro / 11 Pro Max 256 GB....

I can buy for the entire family instead of buying one expensive mobile!

What are you doing at an Apple forum then?

Google Pixel 4XL costs $999 which is basically the same as the iPhone 11 Pro. So where is the huge difference in pricing here?

The specs you provided belong to..... the ROG phone? First of all, this phone is garbage. Second of all, it costs $900 which isn't far off the iPhone as well.

 

[Ramchi]

What are you doing at an Apple forum then?

Google Pixel 4XL costs $999 which is basically the same as the iPhone 11 Pro. So where is the huge difference in pricing here?

The specs you provided belong to..... the ROG phone? First of all, this phone is garbage. Second of all, it costs $900 which isn't far off the iPhone as well.

When I first bought the first gem iPhone I became member basically for hardware unlocking and for jailbreak tips and tricks, continued by association and disassociation with Apple products like iMac, MacBook Pro, Air Pod, iPad, Apple TV etc.I currently own iPhone 11! Not sure all of these are good reasons to be in MR forum!

In my place ROG phone base version costs $550, 512 GB version costs $900! But iPhone Pro Max base version costs $1400, 256 GB costs $1800, 512 GB costs $2000! So people would naturally pick the better specd value for money than $1400-$2000 mobile!

 

[Gutwrench]

If correct, another uninspired/uninspiring release.

 

[Abazigal]

On the contrary to your The Ecosystem red herrings, most Android users happily switch, change, replace their OEM vendors right, left and centre creating healthy competitive ecosystem in Android and offers best value for money in terms price vs features, while OEMs instead individually investing on their resources on the same technology, focusing collective innocation, optimisation of supply chain, providing varying user experience without losing the standards and advantages of Android platform, optimising overall cost of production providing great value for the consumers(120 Hz 6.5 AMOLED inches onscreen finger print scanner with 6000 mA battery 8-12 GB RAM , 128/512 GB storage for almost 1/3 to half the price of iPhone 11 Pro / 11 Pro Max 256 GB....

We seem to be talking over each other.

I have no doubt that pound for pound, you get more "spec" per dollar when you buy an android phone over an iPhone. I am happy that you are able to get an affordable smartphone that meets your needs, and it doesn't seem like you are losing out on anything by going with android, so thumbs up there.

However, I use an iPhone for more than just physical specs. When I talk about ecosystem, it's really about how all my apple devices play well together, resulting in a user experience that is more than the sum of the individual parts.

For example, I teach with an iPad in my class. It's mirrored to an Apple TV hooked up to the classroom projector. I enjoy the typing experience afforded by the Smart Keyboard, and the writing experience of the Apple Pencil. Having both an iPhone and iPad means being able to share app purchases, toss files around via iCloud and airdrop, etc.

I need an iPhone to be using an Apple Watch at any rate, and I am loving my series 5 and 2nd-gen AirPods. Likewise, there are a number of apps that I use which are available only on iOS, and no amount of ram on an android phone will be able to resolve that. There is also the long-term software support, plus apple store support (that I have used and come to appreciate a number of times).

Then there's also the services. Am enjoying Apple Music and TV+ (free year here) in the very least.

Granted, not all these may matter to every user, but it matters enough to me that I willingly pay the apple premium.

 

[I7guy]

Just for your information, most Android OEMs making profits while selling a comparable flagship products at much affordable price points.

Not comparable if one looks at the totality of device ownership. Comparable if comparing two pieces of paper with specs.

Most Android users keep switching their Android mobiles enjoying the freedom, choices, convenience; If Apple leading in profit making, good for them, but it is certainly not good for me or useful for me. I use iPhones if needed and happily switch to Android (I have used BB Passport, Nokia, iPhone, Windows Mobile lumia 920XL etc) when I see good value for money.

How can you speak for the majority of android users?

Market Share eventually becomes the dominating factors for any ecosystem to thrive. Android is the safest ecosystem for any app developer in terms of reaching out to maximum user base(while Apple happily takes away minimum 30-35% on every single payment transaction towards apps in its ecosystem) . In each region, geography, country, state, linguistic ethnicity Android dominates overwhelmingly...while Apple taking the maximum profits which Android users are not worried about..

Considering the best selling global smartphone by model is the XR, I'd say your analysis is flawed. True the best selling smartphone by platform is Android and if one breaks down the models within that it's the cheaper phones. All the best apps, anecdotally are on IOs.

It's not about android users being worried, it's about the economics of the respective ecosystems.