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Baseball Hall of Fame
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The TWO people who didn't vote for Griffey...
At most, we'll go two or three M's game a year these days. I get much more baseball for my dollar from the Rainiers than those perennial failures up North.
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2017 class is out.
Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, and Ivan Rodriguez.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213764086/2017-baseball-hall-of-fame-election-results/
Jeff Bagwell 86.2%
Tim Raines 86.0%
Ivan Rodriguez 76.0%
Trevor Hoffman 74.0%
Vladimir Guerrero 71.7%
Edgar Martinez 58.6%
Roger Clemens 54.1%
Barry Bonds 53.8%
Mike Mussina 51.8%
Curt Schilling 45.0%
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213811706/complete-2017-hall-of-fame-election-results/
Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, and Ivan Rodriguez.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213764086/2017-baseball-hall-of-fame-election-results/
Jeff Bagwell 86.2%
Tim Raines 86.0%
Ivan Rodriguez 76.0%
Trevor Hoffman 74.0%
Vladimir Guerrero 71.7%
Edgar Martinez 58.6%
Roger Clemens 54.1%
Barry Bonds 53.8%
Mike Mussina 51.8%
Curt Schilling 45.0%
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213811706/complete-2017-hall-of-fame-election-results/
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Out of those remaining seven, I'm most surprised by Trevor Hoffman... dude was absolutely lights out and is surpassed only by Mariano Rivera. Shame he hasn't been inducted yet.
Posada got screwed over too, he's already off the ballot.
And here is your 2018 Hall of Fame class:
Chipper Jones: 410 votes (97.2%)
Vladimir Guerrero: 392 votes (92.9%)
Jim Thome: 379 votes (89.8%)
Trevor Hoffman: 337 votes (79.9%)
Others receiving votes but not enough for inclusion include:
Edgar Martinez: 297 votes (70.4%)
Mike Mussina: 268 votes (63.5%)
Roger Clemens: 242 votes (57.3%)
Barry Bonds: 238 votes (56.4%)
Curt Schilling: 216 votes (51.2%)
Omar Vizquel: 156 votes (37.0%)
Larry Walker: 144 votes (34.1%)
Fred McGriff: 98 votes (23.2%)
Manny Ramirez: 93 votes (22.0%)
Jeff Kent: 61 votes (14.5%)
Gary Sheffield: 47 votes (11.1%)
Billy Wagner: 47 votes (11.1%)
Scott Rolen: 43 votes (10.2%)
Sammy Sosa: 33 votes (7.8%)
Andruw Jones: 31 votes (7.3%)
Eliminated from further contention:
Jamie Moyer: 10 votes (2.4%)
Johan Santana: 10 votes (2.4%)
Johnny Damon: 8 votes (1.9%)
Hideki Matsui: 4 votes (0.9%)
Chris Carpenter: 2 votes (0.5%)
Kerry Wood: 2 votes (0.5%)
Livan Hernandez: 1 vote (0.2%)
Carlos Lee: 1 vote (0.2%)
Orlando Hudson: 0 votes
Aubrey Huff: 0 votes
Jason Isringhausen: 0 votes
Brad Lidge: 0 votes
Kevin Millwood: 0 votes
Carlos Zambrano: 0 votes
Chipper Jones: 410 votes (97.2%)
Vladimir Guerrero: 392 votes (92.9%)
Jim Thome: 379 votes (89.8%)
Trevor Hoffman: 337 votes (79.9%)
Others receiving votes but not enough for inclusion include:
Edgar Martinez: 297 votes (70.4%)
Mike Mussina: 268 votes (63.5%)
Roger Clemens: 242 votes (57.3%)
Barry Bonds: 238 votes (56.4%)
Curt Schilling: 216 votes (51.2%)
Omar Vizquel: 156 votes (37.0%)
Larry Walker: 144 votes (34.1%)
Fred McGriff: 98 votes (23.2%)
Manny Ramirez: 93 votes (22.0%)
Jeff Kent: 61 votes (14.5%)
Gary Sheffield: 47 votes (11.1%)
Billy Wagner: 47 votes (11.1%)
Scott Rolen: 43 votes (10.2%)
Sammy Sosa: 33 votes (7.8%)
Andruw Jones: 31 votes (7.3%)
Eliminated from further contention:
Jamie Moyer: 10 votes (2.4%)
Johan Santana: 10 votes (2.4%)
Johnny Damon: 8 votes (1.9%)
Hideki Matsui: 4 votes (0.9%)
Chris Carpenter: 2 votes (0.5%)
Kerry Wood: 2 votes (0.5%)
Livan Hernandez: 1 vote (0.2%)
Carlos Lee: 1 vote (0.2%)
Orlando Hudson: 0 votes
Aubrey Huff: 0 votes
Jason Isringhausen: 0 votes
Brad Lidge: 0 votes
Kevin Millwood: 0 votes
Carlos Zambrano: 0 votes
Im good with those numbers top through bottom assuming we know for sure Jim Thome is clean (not that I'm debating he is or isn't), just that if we know Griffey is clean.
PTI had a good remark yesterday;
"So we are now saying Jim Thome is a better hitter than Barry Bonds and Trevor Hoffman was a better pitcher than Roger Clemens"
Now that time is passing with players and PED's, I think it all falls on the Hall of Fame to come up with some standards, or rules, otherwise, the whole persona is fading.
If they said
"busted of steroids (such as a game ban in the MLB), you are ineligible"
"Criminal record started July 2018 and beyond, you are ineligible"
"Situations that happened to players before today, are as is and that's that"
In doing so, it shows the Hall of Fame is about a 500 year plan, between 1900 and 2050 and gets rid of the drama we now have had the last 5 years.
When I was 13 or 14, I remember looking up stats on Hall of Famers and so no faults, no issues. It was like being 10 years old and feeling invincible.
Today, I couldn't care less about the Hall of Fame (because real life gets in the way) and reality sets in.
But for either my kids, or kids that are baseball fans, I think we wall want that ability of looking at those players as just "the best" and not worry about who was coked out who was on steroids and if we have to tell our kids to view someone different than what the Hall of Fame says, it's a broken system.
Then again, I still think it shouldn't be writers who vote (too biased).
My two cents (only because I'm ranting and waiting for my flight), it should be fully stat orientated (X amount of hits gets you in the Hall) or every season ticket holder gets one vote per seat, something like that.
PTI had a good remark yesterday;
"So we are now saying Jim Thome is a better hitter than Barry Bonds and Trevor Hoffman was a better pitcher than Roger Clemens"
Now that time is passing with players and PED's, I think it all falls on the Hall of Fame to come up with some standards, or rules, otherwise, the whole persona is fading.
If they said
"busted of steroids (such as a game ban in the MLB), you are ineligible"
"Criminal record started July 2018 and beyond, you are ineligible"
"Situations that happened to players before today, are as is and that's that"
In doing so, it shows the Hall of Fame is about a 500 year plan, between 1900 and 2050 and gets rid of the drama we now have had the last 5 years.
When I was 13 or 14, I remember looking up stats on Hall of Famers and so no faults, no issues. It was like being 10 years old and feeling invincible.
Today, I couldn't care less about the Hall of Fame (because real life gets in the way) and reality sets in.
But for either my kids, or kids that are baseball fans, I think we wall want that ability of looking at those players as just "the best" and not worry about who was coked out who was on steroids and if we have to tell our kids to view someone different than what the Hall of Fame says, it's a broken system.
Then again, I still think it shouldn't be writers who vote (too biased).
My two cents (only because I'm ranting and waiting for my flight), it should be fully stat orientated (X amount of hits gets you in the Hall) or every season ticket holder gets one vote per seat, something like that.
Mariano and Halladay are no brainers. Edgar played too much DH for my liking ... Yes I know that he could have played the field. That's just my view of the DH.
Mussina, to me, is not a HOFer. He played a long time and compiled stats. He was never a dominant player. Always good, but never great.
Here's an interesting question. If Mussina is HOF material, what about Johan Santana?
What about David Ortiz? Will he be the first true DH elected? I also wonder how close Pettite is. Take out the failed test, His post season resume is HOF caliber.
To me, Frank Thomas was a true DH and he got elected a few years ago. He DH'd in 1310 games out of 2322. That's 56% and in my book, he's a DH. Edgar is even higher at 1403/2055/68%.
Ortiz was pretty much exclusively a DH 2029/2408/84%, but in my mind, there are already 2 DH's in the HOF, so Ortiz won't be the first.
Man, I guess someday, we'll see a guy in the HOF that was a 100% DH. Hope I'm gone before then.
As for Pettite, for me, his regular season stats don't get him in the HOF. But the guy was a Post-Season hero, plus he gets the Yankee bump. So without the 'roids, he would definitely get in. I can't see them putting him in before Clemens, Bonds, Sosa or McGwire. That would be very hipocritical of the voters (although that wouldn't really stop them) to put Pettite in but not those guys because Pettite only did a little bit of 'roids, when in reality the thing the voters hate about the Roid-4 is that they challenged historic records and a guy like Pettite didn't.
What do you think about Santana? I personally say no, but looking at guys like Mussina get in, I think Johan should get in. Didn't have the longeivity, but was dominant. I put a guy like that in before a guy who was just good, but lasted a long time.
EDIT - I just noticed that Santana was eliminated last year. Show's you how much I've been paying attention. haha
Longevity will keep Santana out, he was always injured. That is the same thing that hurt Mattingly. Growing up a Yankee fan he was my favorite player so I have a bias, but his back let him down as did the team in the 80s. Pettite admitted to using right away, that will help his legacy. The deniers are the ones that will be blacklisted. Until the new writers take control of the voting we won't see the roid guys get in. I can see the younger beat writers not caring as much about the steroid era and going by the numbers. Clemens and Bonds will get in but it will take awhile. Schilling is another interesting name. Yes he is a dick but his numbers are good.
[doublepost=1548258738][/doublepost]Mariano Rivera: 425 votes (100%) -- 1st year on ballot
Roy Halladay: 363 (85.4%) -- 1st
Edgar Martinez: 363 (85.4%) -- 10th
Mike Mussina: 326 (76.7%) -- 6th
Curt Schilling: 259 (60.9%) -- 6th
Roger Clemens: 253 (59.5%) -- 7th
Barry Bonds: 251 (59.1%) -- 7th
Larry Walker: 232 (54.6%) -- 9th
Omar Vizquel: 182 (42.8%) -- 2nd
Fred McGriff: 169 (39.8%) -- 10th
Manny Ramirez: 97 (22.8%) -- 3rd
Jeff Kent: 77 (18.1%) -- 6th
Billy Wagner: 71 (16.7%) -- 4th
Todd Helton: 70 (16.5%) -- 1st
Scott Rolen: 73 (17.2%) -- 2nd
Gary Sheffield: 58 (13.6%) -- 5th
Andy Pettitte: 42 (9.9%) -- 1st
Sammy Sosa: 36 (8.5%) -- 7th
Andruw Jones: 32 (7.5%) -- 2nd
[doublepost=1548258738][/doublepost]Mariano Rivera: 425 votes (100%) -- 1st year on ballot
Roy Halladay: 363 (85.4%) -- 1st
Edgar Martinez: 363 (85.4%) -- 10th
Mike Mussina: 326 (76.7%) -- 6th
Curt Schilling: 259 (60.9%) -- 6th
Roger Clemens: 253 (59.5%) -- 7th
Barry Bonds: 251 (59.1%) -- 7th
Larry Walker: 232 (54.6%) -- 9th
Omar Vizquel: 182 (42.8%) -- 2nd
Fred McGriff: 169 (39.8%) -- 10th
Manny Ramirez: 97 (22.8%) -- 3rd
Jeff Kent: 77 (18.1%) -- 6th
Billy Wagner: 71 (16.7%) -- 4th
Todd Helton: 70 (16.5%) -- 1st
Scott Rolen: 73 (17.2%) -- 2nd
Gary Sheffield: 58 (13.6%) -- 5th
Andy Pettitte: 42 (9.9%) -- 1st
Sammy Sosa: 36 (8.5%) -- 7th
Andruw Jones: 32 (7.5%) -- 2nd
I'm a Mets fan, but I agree with Mattingly. He was dominant. Batting titles and MVP awards. RBI titles. I think what hurts him, other than the back issues, is that he played his entire career with the Yankees in their longest stretch of non-success. They hold it against him that he's the only Yankee all-timer that doesn't have a WS Ring.
Compare his stats to Kirby Puckett. Kirby was another guy that had a shortened career. Kirby won 2 WS and he gets in. Mattingly doesn't win a WS and he's out. Between the two players, only one of them was dominant in their era (which incidentally was the same era). They were both Gold Glovers. They're about equal with Black and Grey ink. Yet Kirby is a first ballot guy and Mattingly drifts off.
Agreed, I argue that if Kirby got in Mattingly should be in too. He will have to wait for the veterans committee.
(Players receiving less than 5% will drop off future ballots)
Michael Young: 9 (2.1%) -- 1st
Lance Berkman: 5 (1.2%) -- 1st
Miguel Tejada: 5 (1.2%) -- 1st
Roy Oswalt: 4 (0.9) -- 1st
Placido Polanco: 2 (0.5) -- 1st
Rick Ankiel: 0 --1st
Jason Bay: 0 --1st
Freddy Garcia: 0 --1st
Jon Garland: 0 --1st
Travis Hafner: 0 --1st
Ted Lilly: 0 --1st
Derek Lowe: 0 --1st
Darren Oliver: 0 --1st
Juan Pierre: 0 --1st
Vernon Wells: 0 --1st
Kevin Youkilis: 0 --1st
It's so weird how some guys get in and seemingly comparable players get forgotten.
So it took Edgar 10 years to finally make it in. As a DH who was a good/excellent hitter.
Now look at Fred McGriff, who at the 10-year mark is at 20% and I think that means he's done, right? McGriff was an very good 1B and had 493 HR. Never a taint of 'roids. So if he had hung around one more year to get 7 dingers, he'd be at least a 3rd ballot guy?
I don't get it. The HOF is full of underserving guys (IMO) anyway, so I shouldn't get so worked up.
I also think Steinbrenner should be in. Love him or hate him but you can't deny what he did for baseball. He basically created the free agency market.
This year only 2 made it. Derek Jeter and Larry Walker.
The 2020 induction ceremony will take place July 26, in Cooperstown, N.Y. The full class will include the two Modern Baseball Era selections -- catcher Ted Simmons and the late Players Association head Marvin Miller.
COMPLETE VOTING TOTALS
Derek Jeter: 396 votes (99.7 percent)
Larry Walker: 304 (76.6)
Curt Schilling: 278 (70.0
Roger Clemens: 242 (61.0)
Barry Bonds: 241 (60.7)
Omar Vizquel: 209 (52.6)
Scott Rolen: 140 (35.3)
Billy Wagner: 126 (31.7)
Gary Sheffield: 121 (30.5)
Todd Helton: 116 (29.2)
Manny Ramírez: 112 (28.2)
Jeff Kent 109: (27.5)
Andruw Jones: 77 (19.4)
Sammy Sosa: 55 (13.9)
Andy Pettitte: 45 (11.3)
Bobby Abreu: 22 (5.5)
Paul Konerko: 10 (2.5)
Jason Giambi: 6 (1.5)
Alfonso Soriano: 6 (1.5)
Eric Chávez: 2 (0.5)
Cliff Lee: 2 (0.5)
Adam Dunn: 1 (0.3)
Brad Penny: 1 (0.3)
Raúl Ibañez: 1 (0.3)
J.J. Putz: 1 (0.3)
Josh Beckett: 0
Heath Bell: 0
Chone Figgins: 0
Rafael Furcal: 0
Carlos Peña: 0
Brian Roberts: 0
José Valverde: 0
- - Post merged: - -
The 2020 induction ceremony will take place July 26, in Cooperstown, N.Y. The full class will include the two Modern Baseball Era selections -- catcher Ted Simmons and the late Players Association head Marvin Miller.
COMPLETE VOTING TOTALS
Derek Jeter: 396 votes (99.7 percent)
Larry Walker: 304 (76.6)
Curt Schilling: 278 (70.0
Roger Clemens: 242 (61.0)
Barry Bonds: 241 (60.7)
Omar Vizquel: 209 (52.6)
Scott Rolen: 140 (35.3)
Billy Wagner: 126 (31.7)
Gary Sheffield: 121 (30.5)
Todd Helton: 116 (29.2)
Manny Ramírez: 112 (28.2)
Jeff Kent 109: (27.5)
Andruw Jones: 77 (19.4)
Sammy Sosa: 55 (13.9)
Andy Pettitte: 45 (11.3)
Bobby Abreu: 22 (5.5)
Paul Konerko: 10 (2.5)
Jason Giambi: 6 (1.5)
Alfonso Soriano: 6 (1.5)
Eric Chávez: 2 (0.5)
Cliff Lee: 2 (0.5)
Adam Dunn: 1 (0.3)
Brad Penny: 1 (0.3)
Raúl Ibañez: 1 (0.3)
J.J. Putz: 1 (0.3)
Josh Beckett: 0
Heath Bell: 0
Chone Figgins: 0
Rafael Furcal: 0
Carlos Peña: 0
Brian Roberts: 0
José Valverde: 0
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Probably a Boston fan... Just thinking out loud of course.
Congrats on Jeter getting in. I am also glad to see Roger move up a little.
