Baseball Hall of Fame

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by mcmav37, Jan 4, 2005.

  1. tobefirst macrumors 68040

    tobefirst

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #126
    The few people who didn't vote for Griffey should have their votes taken away. This "no one should get unanimous support" or "no one should get in on the first ballot" stuff is ridiculous.
     
  2. aaronvan, Jan 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016

    aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #127
    The TWO people who didn't vote for Griffey...

    At most, we'll go two or three M's game a year these days. I get much more baseball for my dollar from the Rainiers than those perennial failures up North.
     
  3. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #128
    The Rainiers, wouldn't happen to be associated with Rainier Beer would they?
     
  4. Algus macrumors regular

    Algus

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Location:
    Arizona
    #129
    They're named after Mt. Rainier which is a very prominent peak in the Olympia-Tacoma-Seattle area. Lots of things were named after it, including Rainier Beer.
     
  5. MacNut, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

    MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #130
  6. Apple 26.2 macrumors 6502a

    Apple 26.2

    Joined:
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    What up, 212?!
    #131
    Out of those remaining seven, I'm most surprised by Trevor Hoffman... dude was absolutely lights out and is surpassed only by Mariano Rivera. Shame he hasn't been inducted yet.
     
  7. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #132
    Posada got screwed over too, he's already off the ballot.
     
  8. Apple 26.2 macrumors 6502a

    Apple 26.2

    Joined:
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    What up, 212?!
    #133
    As a Yankee fan, it's a shame.
     
  9. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #134
    And here is your 2018 Hall of Fame class:

    Chipper Jones: 410 votes (97.2%)
    Vladimir Guerrero: 392 votes (92.9%)
    Jim Thome: 379 votes (89.8%)
    Trevor Hoffman: 337 votes (79.9%)

    Others receiving votes but not enough for inclusion include:
    Edgar Martinez: 297 votes (70.4%)
    Mike Mussina: 268 votes (63.5%)
    Roger Clemens: 242 votes (57.3%)
    Barry Bonds: 238 votes (56.4%)
    Curt Schilling: 216 votes (51.2%)
    Omar Vizquel: 156 votes (37.0%)
    Larry Walker: 144 votes (34.1%)
    Fred McGriff: 98 votes (23.2%)
    Manny Ramirez: 93 votes (22.0%)
    Jeff Kent: 61 votes (14.5%)
    Gary Sheffield: 47 votes (11.1%)
    Billy Wagner: 47 votes (11.1%)
    Scott Rolen: 43 votes (10.2%)
    Sammy Sosa: 33 votes (7.8%)
    Andruw Jones: 31 votes (7.3%)

    Eliminated from further contention:
    Jamie Moyer: 10 votes (2.4%)
    Johan Santana: 10 votes (2.4%)
    Johnny Damon: 8 votes (1.9%)
    Hideki Matsui: 4 votes (0.9%)
    Chris Carpenter: 2 votes (0.5%)
    Kerry Wood: 2 votes (0.5%)
    Livan Hernandez: 1 vote (0.2%)
    Carlos Lee: 1 vote (0.2%)
    Orlando Hudson: 0 votes
    Aubrey Huff: 0 votes
    Jason Isringhausen: 0 votes
    Brad Lidge: 0 votes
    Kevin Millwood: 0 votes
    Carlos Zambrano: 0 votes
     
  10. JamesMike macrumors demi-god

    JamesMike

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Location:
    Oregon
    #135
    A fan of Chipper and Valdimar back in the day.
     
  11. TopShelf macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    #136
    Im good with those numbers top through bottom assuming we know for sure Jim Thome is clean (not that I'm debating he is or isn't), just that if we know Griffey is clean.

    PTI had a good remark yesterday;
    "So we are now saying Jim Thome is a better hitter than Barry Bonds and Trevor Hoffman was a better pitcher than Roger Clemens"


    Now that time is passing with players and PED's, I think it all falls on the Hall of Fame to come up with some standards, or rules, otherwise, the whole persona is fading.
    If they said
    "busted of steroids (such as a game ban in the MLB), you are ineligible"
    "Criminal record started July 2018 and beyond, you are ineligible"
    "Situations that happened to players before today, are as is and that's that"

    In doing so, it shows the Hall of Fame is about a 500 year plan, between 1900 and 2050 and gets rid of the drama we now have had the last 5 years.

    When I was 13 or 14, I remember looking up stats on Hall of Famers and so no faults, no issues. It was like being 10 years old and feeling invincible.
    Today, I couldn't care less about the Hall of Fame (because real life gets in the way) and reality sets in.
    But for either my kids, or kids that are baseball fans, I think we wall want that ability of looking at those players as just "the best" and not worry about who was coked out who was on steroids and if we have to tell our kids to view someone different than what the Hall of Fame says, it's a broken system.


    Then again, I still think it shouldn't be writers who vote (too biased).
    My two cents (only because I'm ranting and waiting for my flight), it should be fully stat orientated (X amount of hits gets you in the Hall) or every season ticket holder gets one vote per seat, something like that.
     
  12. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #137
    Rivera is the first player unanimously voted in.

    Mariano Rivera 425 (100%)
    Roy Halladay 363 (85.4%)
    Edgar Martinez 363 (85.4%)
    Mike Mussina 326 (76.7%)
     
  13. ftaok macrumors 603

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #138
    Mariano and Halladay are no brainers. Edgar played too much DH for my liking ... Yes I know that he could have played the field. That's just my view of the DH.

    Mussina, to me, is not a HOFer. He played a long time and compiled stats. He was never a dominant player. Always good, but never great.

    Here's an interesting question. If Mussina is HOF material, what about Johan Santana?
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #139
    What about David Ortiz? Will he be the first true DH elected? I also wonder how close Pettite is. Take out the failed test, His post season resume is HOF caliber.
     
  15. ftaok macrumors 603

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #140
    To me, Frank Thomas was a true DH and he got elected a few years ago. He DH'd in 1310 games out of 2322. That's 56% and in my book, he's a DH. Edgar is even higher at 1403/2055/68%.

    Ortiz was pretty much exclusively a DH 2029/2408/84%, but in my mind, there are already 2 DH's in the HOF, so Ortiz won't be the first.

    Man, I guess someday, we'll see a guy in the HOF that was a 100% DH. Hope I'm gone before then.

    As for Pettite, for me, his regular season stats don't get him in the HOF. But the guy was a Post-Season hero, plus he gets the Yankee bump. So without the 'roids, he would definitely get in. I can't see them putting him in before Clemens, Bonds, Sosa or McGwire. That would be very hipocritical of the voters (although that wouldn't really stop them) to put Pettite in but not those guys because Pettite only did a little bit of 'roids, when in reality the thing the voters hate about the Roid-4 is that they challenged historic records and a guy like Pettite didn't.

    What do you think about Santana? I personally say no, but looking at guys like Mussina get in, I think Johan should get in. Didn't have the longeivity, but was dominant. I put a guy like that in before a guy who was just good, but lasted a long time.

    EDIT - I just noticed that Santana was eliminated last year. Show's you how much I've been paying attention. haha
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #141
    Longevity will keep Santana out, he was always injured. That is the same thing that hurt Mattingly. Growing up a Yankee fan he was my favorite player so I have a bias, but his back let him down as did the team in the 80s. Pettite admitted to using right away, that will help his legacy. The deniers are the ones that will be blacklisted. Until the new writers take control of the voting we won't see the roid guys get in. I can see the younger beat writers not caring as much about the steroid era and going by the numbers. Clemens and Bonds will get in but it will take awhile. Schilling is another interesting name. Yes he is a dick but his numbers are good.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019 ---
    Mariano Rivera: 425 votes (100%) -- 1st year on ballot
    Roy Halladay: 363 (85.4%) -- 1st
    Edgar Martinez: 363 (85.4%) -- 10th
    Mike Mussina: 326 (76.7%) -- 6th
    Curt Schilling: 259 (60.9%) -- 6th
    Roger Clemens: 253 (59.5%) -- 7th
    Barry Bonds: 251 (59.1%) -- 7th
    Larry Walker: 232 (54.6%) -- 9th
    Omar Vizquel: 182 (42.8%) -- 2nd
    Fred McGriff: 169 (39.8%) -- 10th
    Manny Ramirez: 97 (22.8%) -- 3rd
    Jeff Kent: 77 (18.1%) -- 6th
    Billy Wagner: 71 (16.7%) -- 4th
    Todd Helton: 70 (16.5%) -- 1st
    Scott Rolen: 73 (17.2%) -- 2nd
    Gary Sheffield: 58 (13.6%) -- 5th
    Andy Pettitte: 42 (9.9%) -- 1st
    Sammy Sosa: 36 (8.5%) -- 7th
    Andruw Jones: 32 (7.5%) -- 2nd
     
  17. ftaok macrumors 603

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #142
    I'm a Mets fan, but I agree with Mattingly. He was dominant. Batting titles and MVP awards. RBI titles. I think what hurts him, other than the back issues, is that he played his entire career with the Yankees in their longest stretch of non-success. They hold it against him that he's the only Yankee all-timer that doesn't have a WS Ring.

    Compare his stats to Kirby Puckett. Kirby was another guy that had a shortened career. Kirby won 2 WS and he gets in. Mattingly doesn't win a WS and he's out. Between the two players, only one of them was dominant in their era (which incidentally was the same era). They were both Gold Glovers. They're about equal with Black and Grey ink. Yet Kirby is a first ballot guy and Mattingly drifts off.
     
  18. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #143
    Agreed, I argue that if Kirby got in Mattingly should be in too. He will have to wait for the veterans committee.

    (Players receiving less than 5% will drop off future ballots)

    Michael Young: 9 (2.1%) -- 1st
    Lance Berkman: 5 (1.2%) -- 1st
    Miguel Tejada: 5 (1.2%) -- 1st
    Roy Oswalt: 4 (0.9) -- 1st
    Placido Polanco: 2 (0.5) -- 1st
    Rick Ankiel: 0 --1st
    Jason Bay: 0 --1st
    Freddy Garcia: 0 --1st
    Jon Garland: 0 --1st
    Travis Hafner: 0 --1st
    Ted Lilly: 0 --1st
    Derek Lowe: 0 --1st
    Darren Oliver: 0 --1st
    Juan Pierre: 0 --1st
    Vernon Wells: 0 --1st
    Kevin Youkilis: 0 --1st
     
  19. ftaok macrumors 603

    ftaok

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Location:
    East Coast
    #144
    It's so weird how some guys get in and seemingly comparable players get forgotten.

    So it took Edgar 10 years to finally make it in. As a DH who was a good/excellent hitter.

    Now look at Fred McGriff, who at the 10-year mark is at 20% and I think that means he's done, right? McGriff was an very good 1B and had 493 HR. Never a taint of 'roids. So if he had hung around one more year to get 7 dingers, he'd be at least a 3rd ballot guy?

    I don't get it. The HOF is full of underserving guys (IMO) anyway, so I shouldn't get so worked up.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #145
    I also think Steinbrenner should be in. Love him or hate him but you can't deny what he did for baseball. He basically created the free agency market.
     

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