Bathroom Remodel Feb 2018

[Huntn]

It has begun!! Bathroom messy state is pre-construction prep.
Link to my 2013 Kitchen remodel: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/kitchen-remodel.1579283/

Before:

​

Day 1: Destroy

Testing the waters​

Day 2: Destroy

Committed​

 

[jeyf]

Keep in mind most natural stone is porous unless it is treated. for wet area, a shower wall, you might use a glazed tile

 

[Huntn]

Keep in mind most natural stone is porous unless it is treated. for wet area, a shower wall, you might use a glazed tile

Thanks for the heads up. We are using a porcelain tile with a marble appearance. I’m going to be using the Wedi System to build a new shower stall. Pictures will be posted.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Thanks for the heads up. We are using a porcelain tile with a marble appearance. I’m going to be using the Wedi System to build a new shower stall. Pictures will be posted.

I look forward to following this story.

Yes, I second @jeyf's observations about the need for tiling in the wet area.

We used lovely cream Italian tiles (chosen by your humble scribe while Mother - strolling around the Italian tile store, and then still more or less independent and healthy, simply instructed me to do the needful; my first choice - a quite exquisite cream tile - was ruled out on the grounds of cost; however, my second selection was accepted) when we re-did our bathroom a decade ago.

 

[rhett7660]

To funny, we just started ours also. Started to tear out the tile around the old jacuzzi style tub and also tore all the flooring up. We should have all of our demo work done within a week or two.

Look forward to following your project as I wonder if we will be doing some of the same things to our bathrooms.

 

[Huntn]

To funny, we just started ours also. Started to tear out the tile around the old jacuzzi style tub and also tore all the flooring up. We should have all of our demo work done within a week or two.

Look forward to following your project as I wonder if we will be doing some of the same things to our bathrooms.

You’ll probably progress faster than me. Post pics!

About removing drywall, the walls in our kitchen and bathrooms were originally wallpapered. A previous owner, instead of removing the wall paper decided to texture over it. Both me and my wife seriously dislike bumpy walls. Remodeling the kitchen, I did not remove the dry wall and achieving smooth walls was a big pain in the ass. For the bathroom I agreed to remove the drywall due to the bumpy walls and to see if there were any hidden water issues.
[doublepost=1519831869][/doublepost]Tip of the Day: To cleanly remove the wall drywall, and leave the ceiling untouched, use a utility knife to score where the wall meets the ceiling to cut drywall tape along this junction. You should be able to cleanly pull the wall dryway away without marring the ceiling.

Spray painting the ceiling is planned.

 

[rhett7660]

You’ll probably progress faster than me. Post pics!

About removing drywall, the walls in our kitchen and bathrooms were originally wallpapered. A previous owner, instead of removing the wall paper decided to texture over it. Both me and my wife seriously dislike bumpy walls. Remodeling the kitchen, I did not remove the dry wall and achieving smooth walls was a big pain in the ass. For the bathroom I agreed to remove the drywall due to the bumpy walls and to see if there were any hidden water issues.
[doublepost=1519831869][/doublepost]Tip of the Day: To cleanly remove the wall drywall, and leave the ceiling untouched, use a utility knife to score where the wall meets the ceiling to cut drywall tape along this junction. You should be able to cleanly pull the wall dryway away without marring the ceiling.

Spray painting the ceiling is planned.

I will post some pics also, and yup! A good sharp utility knife is a must. Prior to that, I had to have the ceiling done also. Ugh. Damn tape and mud!

We do not like bumpy walls either. For the most part all of our walls have a very mild, I mean really mild texture to them so we left them. But yeah I agree with you. At our last house, we took everything down to the beams and then rehung drywall and had zero texture applied. It was a big pain in the butt and we won't be doing that again. We have sanded it down to where is is barely noticeable in the rooms we have done but there is still just a little.

 

[Huntn]

Day 3: Removed Shower Frame and tiles.
Day cut short due to tile delivery to house.

​

I am familiar with cement board. The material behind the tiles looks like a sheet of 1/2 cement board which is on the thick side for cement board, and I noticed between it and the drywall is a wire mesh, which makes me wonder if this is a pre-made board or they just slathered 1/2" of cement/mud on the wall over the mesh. thoughts? On the lower right there was a weak spot when I removed the tiles and the cement came off with the drywall underneath, revealing the copper pipes, wrapped in those rubber insulation tubes made for water pipes.

All of this is coming out. I briefly considered one of those small hand saws with the rotating blade, not the standard size circular hand saw, to cut out the cement and decided that would create way too much dust so I'm going to attack it with the crow bar tomorrow.

In the outside wall where the pipes are is standard fiberglass batt insulation. I'll remove that and put in a thick foam board and spray the edges of it with the spray foam to seal it for air leaks. I think that will be much better than the batt insulation currently there. I'll verify the foam has a higher R rating than the fiberglass insulation.

 

[jeyf]

copper pipes along out side walls? replace this with pex and sharkbite fittings.
buy a all-in-one tool if you can get a reliable diamond grit blade for it.

use extreme caution on the dust

 

[mobilehaathi]

Interested to watch your progress, looking forward to the updates!

 

[0388631]

Good luck. Looking forward to the final result. Like Rhett, I've redone all the walls in the house. Though there was never a texture issue. First time post purchase was to gut everything and start from "scratch" second time was to gut 90% and bring in better stuff (thicker drywall, stronger cabling, etc.) and future proofed the power and energy requirements. Popcorn ceilings should have stayed in the 80s. Still see it in new home listings from time to time, and by new home I meant post 2000s build.

Ditto on the dust. Wear a heavy flannel shirt, 3M respirator mask and a head covering. Some stuff makes your skin incredibly itchy if not look like you've got hives. I speak from experience...

 

[Huntn]

copper pipes along out side walls? replace this with pex and sharkbite fittings.
buy a all-in-one tool if you can get a reliable diamond grit blade for it.

use extreme caution on the dust

Yes this is Central East Texas where hard freezes when they rarely happen, last longer than 12 hrs. Of note, when we lived in Minnesota by design necessity, we had copper pipes on the outside walls, such as the kitchen sink next to a window. Those pipes partially ran through the outside walls.

Please tell me about pex and sharkbite fittings in relationship to freezing concerns.

I considered an all in one tool to cut out this cement behind the shower wall, but after discussing this with my brother who has extensive experience with house building and remodeling, I’m going to start with the prybar approach to minimize dust. I’ve been wearing a 3M respirator from the start.

Good luck. Looking forward to the final result. Like Rhett, I've redone all the walls in the house. Though there was never a texture issue. First time post purchase was to gut everything and start from "scratch" second time was to gut 90% and bring in better stuff (thicker drywall, stronger cabling, etc.) and future proofed the power and energy requirements. Popcorn ceilings should have stayed in the 80s. Still see it in new home listings from time to time, and by new home I meant post 2000s build.

Ditto on the dust. Wear a heavy flannel shirt, 3M respirator mask and a head covering. Some stuff makes your skin incredibly itchy if not look like you've got hives. I speak from experience...

Thanks!
I know many Home refurbish experts recommend going down to the studs to reveal hidden problems that could exist. Watched a show once where they discovered a water line plumbed in a circle, by a previous home owner. I should have done this in the kitchen (reveal studs), but did not although I removed the drywall in the sink area to adjust the plumbing there.

 

[bruinsrme]

When having the holes cut in a natural stone counter top ensure the hole for the faucet is far enough from the back splash to allow the pull lever for the sink stop adequate travel without hitting the backsplash

 

[rhett7660]

Day 3: Removed Shower Frame and tiles.
Day cut short due to tile delivery to house.

View attachment 752761
​

I am familiar with cement board. The material behind the tiles looks like a sheet of 1/2 cement board which is on the thick side for cement board, and I noticed between it and the drywall is a wire mesh, which makes me wonder if this is a pre-made board or they just slathered 1/2" of cement/mud on the wall over the mesh. thoughts? On the lower right there was a weak spot when I removed the tiles and the cement came off with the drywall underneath, revealing the copper pipes, wrapped in those rubber insulation tubes made for water pipes.

All of this is coming out. I briefly considered one of those small hand saws with the rotating blade, not the standard size circular hand saw, to cut out the cement and decided that would create way too much dust so I'm going to attack it with the crow bar tomorrow.

In the outside wall where the pipes are is standard fiberglass batt insulation. I'll remove that and put in a thick foam board and spray the edges of it with the spray foam to seal it for air leaks. I think that will be much better than the batt insulation currently there. I'll verify the foam has a higher R rating than the fiberglass insulation.

So if I understand this correctly you had wire mesh, but was it coated with anything like another layer of mud? On our current bathroom, we had about 3/4 of inch worth of mud and wire underneath the tile which had about an 1/8 of an inch worth or mortar. Pain in the butt to pull up.

We opted to use a pry bar, hammer, and one of these tools to take it out. Dust being the big concern as others have mentioned, I too get itchy with some of the materials that I have used a grinder on, so I opt out for brute force now lol. Not to mention it gets EVERYWHERE! If you can close the area off with one of those plastic door ways with a zipper, that helps, but you still get it on you etc. To me it wasn't worth it since I could just pound it into submission lol.

 

[Huntn]

So if I understand this correctly you had wire mesh, but was it coated with anything like another layer of mud? On our current bathroom, we had about 3/4 of inch worth of mud and wire underneath the tile which had about an 1/8 of an inch worth or mortar. Pain in the butt to pull up.

We opted to use a pry bar, hammer, and one of these tools to take it out. Dust being the big concern as others have mentioned, I too get itchy with some of the materials that I have used a grinder on, so I opt out for brute force now lol. Not to mention it gets EVERYWHERE! If you can close the area off with one of those plastic door ways with a zipper, that helps, but you still get it on you etc. To me it wasn't worth it since I could just pound it into submission lol.

Day 4: Shower Gone

Shower Removed
​

It was a half inch of mud on a wire mesh which surprised me because it seems like that would take a lot of work to install and keep it all perfectly the same thickness so you don't see variances in the tile. But apparently whoever did it, knew what they were doing.

I ended up using a pry bar and a hammer. Before starting I eyed a grinder at the store, but the associate seemed adamant that it's not designed for this kind of an application and it generate a lot of dust. So I opted for the pry bar hammer and that worked well. I have 10 large bags of debry out for pickup tomorrow. It accumulates fast! In many cases, the bags could hold more, but if I make them too heavy I have trouble moving them and the trash men won't take them.

Outside Wall
​

This is the first house I've lived in on a concrete slab that did not have a basement, although in college my Mom's house was on a slab too and I visited for the Summers. Anyway, see that white PVC pipe in the wall by the floor? This is where the water supply appears to come up from the floor. I'm a bit curious because the water comes into the house by the dining room on the opposite corner of the house (a rambler) and from there I thought it went up into the attic and over to the water heater which is also in the attic, along with the furnace. So I assume the water was distributed through the walls coming from the attic which apparently not so. My wife is dying for a water softener, but it appears that the only way to install one is on the outside of the house to catch all the water avenues through the house. Anyway I digress.

The white PVC pipe goes straight up to the roof, so it's a vent, but I've never seen a vent that comes out of the floor like that. In previous houses I've lived in, plumbing vents are built into the visible plumbing but as stated, I've always had a basement before.

The Next Day's Target
Tub Removal​

 

[0388631]

I had a pretty good idea of what to expect when I first bought the place since nearly everything is filed with the city. I don't even recall anything forgotten inside the walls apart from an old, but not rusted blade that must have been left in sometime in the 70s or 80s.

On softeners: I'd check with your local laws. A lot of places are banning salt based systems. Non-salt systems are a tad more expensive but don't have the issues salt based systems have. They're also much lower maintenance, and it beats lugging around heavy bags of salt. You can also run both if you redo your plumbing. You can run softeners to only a few fixtures in the house, too. Of course, it requires some replumbing.

 

[jeyf]

instead of a water softener get a ro-filter
-there is quite a lot of exhaust reject water from a ro filter so usually plumb it back into the sewer or a fav tree outside
-yearly maintenance for this device so buy a name brand and research the cost of replacement membrane, filters are
-ro filters dont scale up with grace so people usually do just the refrigerator & a 3rd sink faucet.

plumbing vent, there is a new solution where the vent pipe donst have to go to the roof

fyi:
-white pvc for portable water is usually bad
-easy to cut the cement floor these days

 

[D.T.]

Great thread, it's an eerie vision of our very near future ...

 

[Huntn]

I had a pretty good idea of what to expect when I first bought the place since nearly everything is filed with the city. I don't even recall anything forgotten inside the walls apart from an old, but not rusted blade that must have been left in sometime in the 70s or 80s.

On softeners: I'd check with your local laws. A lot of places are banning salt based systems. Non-salt systems are a tad more expensive but don't have the issues salt based systems have. They're also much lower maintenance, and it beats lugging around heavy bags of salt. You can also run both if you redo your plumbing. You can run softeners to only a few fixtures in the house, too. Of course, it requires some replumbing.

instead of a water softener get a ro-filter
-there is quite a lot of exhaust reject water from a ro filter so usually plumb it back into the sewer or a fav tree outside
-yearly maintenance for this device so buy a name brand and research the cost of replacement membrane, filters are
-ro filters dont scale up with grace so people usually do just the refrigerator & a 3rd sink faucet.

plumbing vent, there is a new solution where the vent pipe donst have to go to the roof

fyi:
-white pvc for portable water is usually bad
-easy to cut the cement floor these days

Water Softner talk
I believe my wife could be satisfied with a system that feeds just the tub, but in the past we also liked having soft water to the clothes washer. We just designed the bathroom, which is not huge without considering a non salt alternative water filter. While I see one water pipe, I’ve not yet identified the source of the hot water which most likely cones down the outside wall from the attic where the water heater is. So I’m not sure how large these filtration units are, and in the bathroom, not sure if they would work with a hot water source. I assume this would not work.
The key might be to use a non electric filtration system and hook it to the cold water going to the water heater. Hmm. However, I’ve always disliked the cost of filters. The under kitchen sink water filters are expensive to replace. The refridgerstor cartridge costs $30 to replace. So I wonder how often and how expensive a filter for a ro-filter would cost?

 

[0388631]

Best to sit with a contractor and break the costs down. Whole house RO is great if you don't mind storing the waste water, otherwise you're paying for what you'll lose out on. Systems vary in their efficiency. Salt systems can be set up to feed only specific fixtures as long as the plumping allows for it otherwise it's a headache. Non-salt systems aren't new and they provide the benefits of a salt-system minus the sodium present and of course minerals intact.

RO goes to a unit in our kitchen area, waste goes to a tank where I can use it. Salt system is setup for only the bathrooms and wash room.

All I'll say is I'm never doing that again and I'd rather build a custom with what I want rather than have nightmares about pipes chasing me again. And a blue dog with white horns but that was after some questionable wine during our 2nd remodel.

 

[Huntn]

Best to sit with a contractor and break the costs down. Whole house RO is great if you don't mind storing the waste water, otherwise you're paying for what you'll lose out on. Systems vary in their efficiency. Salt systems can be set up to feed only specific fixtures as long as the plumping allows for it otherwise it's a headache. Non-salt systems aren't new and they provide the benefits of a salt-system minus the sodium present and of course minerals intact.

RO goes to a unit in our kitchen area, waste goes to a tank where I can use it. Salt system is setup for only the bathrooms and wash room.

All I'll say is I'm never doing that again and I'd rather build a custom with what I want rather than have nightmares about pipes chasing me again. And a blue dog with white horns but that was after some questionable wine during our 2nd remodel.

Waste water, are you referencing a salt system?

 

[0388631]

Waste water, are you referencing a salt system?

No. RO systems produce waste water for every few gallons of consumable water they produce. The waste water is simply the tap feed and it goes down the drain unless you collect it.

 

[jeyf]

ro system
no electrical or mechanical parts
best for just the refrigerator and a kitchen 3rd faucet, use if for coffee, drinking water, ice...
could be up to 1/3 of the water gets wasted
replace the ro membrane & filters 1-2 years?

keep it simple? not every city needs a water softener or ro filter, may vary by neighborhood
an ro filter is a great filtering system in that it gets ~90+% of the contaminants, if that is important

 

[0388631]

Yep, adding to Jey's post, I'd splurge for a higher efficiency model (less waste) whether you dump the waste down the drain or catch it. With RO you can add or detract with better systems depending on your need, and I'd argue your membrane health is solely dependent on the source water's quality. A membrane set in a really good part of the country with excellent local tap will last longer than say a place with heavy mineral content or odor. You can add fancy stuff like UV filters, too, and or re-mineralization membranes.

 

[Huntn]

ro system
no electrical or mechanical parts
best for just the refrigerator and a kitchen 3rd faucet, use if for coffee, drinking water, ice...
could be up to 1/3 of the water gets wasted
replace the ro membrane & filters 1-2 years?

keep it simple? not every city needs a water softener or ro filter, may vary by neighborhood
an ro filter is a great filtering system in that it gets ~90+% of the contaminants, if that is important

What about whole house usage?

Yep, adding to Jey's post, I'd splurge for a higher efficiency model (less waste) whether you dump the waste down the drain or catch it. With RO you can add or detract with better systems depending on your need, and I'd argue your membrane health is solely dependent on the source water's quality. A membrane set in a really good part of the country with excellent local tap will last longer than say a place with heavy mineral content or odor. You can add fancy stuff like UV filters, too, and or re-mineralization membranes.

What is the quality of this water, suitable for the garden? Sorry if you already said.

Because our water comes into the slab of the house, but I don’t know what it does after that, without a lot of taking walls apart which I’m not going to do. I know it pops out of the floor, on the opposite side of the house (bathroom) and I see no way to easily figure out the flow of the water to catch it all of it with a water softening system, without placing a unit outside the house next to where it enters. Waste water, if it is suitable could be routed to my front plant beds or I could tie it into the pool overflow drain which dumps onto the street.