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BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

So a documentary crew uncover certain facts in the supply chain that are contrary to Apple's own sense of ethics and all the self-righteous come out crying with their ridiculous statements attacking the documentary makers and defending Apple to the hilt. It reminds me of those parents on certain housing estates that publicly defend the wrong-doings of their errant kids or those adults that harangue the Police when they become arrested with comments like, "Shouldn't you be dealing with real criminals instead of me for texting whilst driving....".

A true testament to the resilience of our gene pool :D
 
This is an outrage I want Tim sacked post haste, dirty filthy apple.

Lots of Americans in here being patriotic rather then sensible.


Tim needs to go he's a liar.
 
batchtaster said:
Since they're basically the same factories anyway, the report already isn't fair or balanced. These are contractors who manufacture for multiple clients simultaneously. But they bailed up only Apple, purely out of sensationalism.
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....or perhaps because Apple holds itself up as the pinnacle of everything ethical, ecological and environmental? Or perhaps because Apple never tire of making their pious statements and spouting their virtues at every opportunity?

Apple are no worse than the rest, but paradoxically as clearly the program shows, they are no better either!
 
Amazing Iceman said:
BBC BS. These workers work for the factory, not for Apple. It's their duty to care for their workers as subcontractors. The factory doesn't belong to Apple.
Why doesn't the BBC go after the factories instead? They may get something accomplished... Oh wait! They don't care, nor the country cares. and the workers are happy to have a job.
The day Apple starts using robots for manufacturing, then the media will complain about Apple take people's jobs away from them.

The truth is you can never please everyone.
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Foxconn also does assembly works for Dell. HP, Sony, Samsung, Nokia, Microsoft Xbox, and God knows how many more multinationals.
Why don't they go after these guys?

I encourage Apple to design their product so that they can assembled using robots. Don't care whether it is thiner than thin anymore.

----------

This one news, for whatever reason, never gets attention :

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/12/chinese-foxconn-workers-threaten-mass-suicide-over-xbox-pay-dispute/
 
Ironduke said:
This is an outrage I want Tim sacked post haste, dirty filthy apple.

Lots of Americans in here being patriotic rather then sensible.


Tim needs to go he's a liar.
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Because everything the BBC reported in this documentary has been verified as the truth? I hope if you own any Apple products you dispose of them straight away. That's the only moral thing to do, right?
 
I get the sense that when Apple sends investigators to these factories and material procurers that they make every effort to hide what's going on.

And you can say "But Apple does random spot checks!" and that's true based on their reports but it's not difficult for a employee recruiter to merely not take someones ID card or not give someone a dressing down when they know they are being watched.

What Apple really needs to do is employ their own overseers, put a dedicated person in every assembly room. Have someone paid by Apple directly at every recruitment point.

It's the only way to make sure their rules are adhered to. Merely relying on Foxconn and Pegatron to do that isn't enough.

As for the materials, the tin trade and conflict minerals. Apple needs to step in there, buy land that has the metals they need and then pay a proper reputable mining company to get the materials out. Going to these third parties isn't working and will never work, it's just too easy for illegally mined minerals to enter the supply train if they are relying on middlemen.

As an Apple consumer and share holder it makes me sad. I feel like Apple could have sorted this a long time ago by building their own factories. I know they are a reliability and it cost them dearly last time but this isn't like last time, they are well on their way to becoming the most valuable company the world has ever seen, the first trillion dollar company. I think it's about time they brought the manufacturing back to the United States. God knows the million jobs they'd bring home would help out too.
 
hleewell said:
Foxconn also does assembly works for Dell. HP, Sony, Samsung, Nokia, Microsoft Xbox, and God knows how many more multinationals.
Why don't they go after these guys?
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At least watch the programme first. Foxconn only get a cursory mention. The problematic (for Apple) undercover footage comes from a Pegatron facility.
 
sualpine said:
So instead of presenting these findings to Apple and actually trying to improve the situation, they are going to capitalize on it by making a "documentary" for more $$$? Disgusting.
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That is the ONLY way Apple will care. Apple cares about (1) making money and (2) making money and (3) making money. But to do those things they need to present a good public image and they will need to address this worker issue.

Only by making this public in a big way will Apple feel the need to take real actions in China. We know Apple could fix this it they really cared, Apple could offer any worker inChina a $100 bonus for reporting a labor law violation.
 
xSinghx said:
You're conflating questions with fallacies and making a false accusation in the form a feeble assertion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflation

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assertion
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Where did you ask a legitimate question? They are all rhetorical in nature. Your entire response is a fallacy since it misrepresents and mis-characterizes my argument by selectively responding to a specific aspect in order to make your own point and support your own agenda. That's intellectually lazy.

In point of 'fact' any rational person would characterize your response to my initial viewpoint of the documentary as a 'straw-man'. You simply can't get around logic. Stating that you are illogical is not an 'accusation'.

Try and be objective instead of self-righteous. You're writing is emotionally charged and arrogant which doesn't beget a productive discussion on an important issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-righteousness
 
nylon said:
*snip*
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I've come to discover that when people start tossing the fallacies handbook at each other with wild abandon, the conversation has gone too stupid to continue. In the end, no matter who does it, it just looks like everyone involved is trying to avoid answering the question by nitpicking the mechanical constructs of the argument presented.

----------
ani4ani said:
Apple are no worse than the rest, but paradoxically as clearly the program shows, they are no better either!
Click to expand...

Boom! Right here! Apple isn't any more or less guilty than anyone else who takes advantage of China's lax labor standards. The only reason they're being "picked on" here is that they're currently the biggest and best regarded of the bunch.

The way I'd put it is to say that Apple isn't the direct cause of anything, but like everyone else involved, are accomplices in its continuation.
 
tennisproha said:
Okay so I just watched the whole documentary and I'm pretty disappointed in the angle the producers/BBC decided to take the story in. It does do a decent job of pointing out some of the fallicies in the supply chain however the blame is completely and unfairly misplaced.

It points out all the standards Apple has in place to protect workers and shows how every single one is being broken by Pegatron yet comes back around to blame Apple for Pegatrons mismanagement. I think thats completely idiotic.

Apple is a client of Pegatron. Apple hires and pays Pegatron to manufacture its products. Its up to the Chinese government to regulate its companies. And its up to Pegatron to live by its rules and regulations. Apple really has no role in this. In fact I think China is to blame for all this and they are using Apple as a scapegoat to further their economic agenda.

Lastly the problem is not Apple as this is a problem everywhere. Its a systemic issue. I wouldnt be surprised if Apple brings their iphone manufacturing to the US in a few years like they've done for the Mac Pro.
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While you are correct in saying that Apple have set standards in place and that all the standards are being broken by Pegatron. They also make the point that it does not take much digging to see that all the standards are broken and that Apple should be aware of this if they were doing anything more than a cursory check.

The problem is really that Apple in the person of Tim Cook likes to pontificate about the high standards they set for these factories and the intense monitoring that they do to control it. That is why the BBC went after Apple.

Some of the points made that I noted were.

1. Fake Audit trails because the workers are told how to fill out forms.
2. Overtime disguised as bonus payments to conceal the long hours worked.
3. Breaking the law by taking away workers identity cards.
4. Very Regimented environment with workers being treated like Sh@t constantly being shouted at and bullied, made to walk along yellow lines.
 
Renzatic said:
I've come to discover that when people start tossing the fallacies handbook at each other with wild abandon, the conversation has gone too stupid to continue. In the end, no matter who does it, it just looks like everyone involved is trying to avoid answering the question by nitpicking the mechanical constructs of the argument presented.
Click to expand...


There was never a conversation. This person just wanted to raise his/her own points but did so in a intellectually disingenuous way by using my views as a trampolene and saying "look at me". You have to stand on your own two feet in this world. This individual picked a fight where there was none with regards to this topic/documentary.
 
It's pretty screwed up to see how the community here defends these kind of conditions just because it focuses on Apple. Seriously, what is wrong with you people? This is just sad.
 
Oh no, the guy worked 60 hours a week!!!
Poor guy. He is so tired that he can't stand anymore and must collapse to sleep


Sheesh.
What a drama queen.
I haven't worked so few hours per week this year.
 
I watched the entire production.

Having considerable experience with manufacturing in China, I have to say the conditions generally look to be on the higher end of normal. Workers sleeping during breaks? They do that everywhere. Show me a guy with a cattle prod keeping them awake if you want to impress me.

Hell, at the Olympics in Beijing fully 3/4 of the volunteers working the venue in my event were asleep at any given time. Think they were being abused?

I have to say the piece lost all credibility for me with two major items- the entitlement based outrage that the Beeb reporter didn't get an interview in Cupertino, and the vague "we have been told" about the link between the tin mines and the Apple supply chain taking up a third of the show.
 
sualpine said:
Right right... because they sell absolutely nothing on www.bbcshop.com, and the iPlayer doesn't show ads, right?

Oh, and the BBC "journalists" work for free? Thank you for teaching me.
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The iPlayer does not show ads.

BBC Shop does not sell Panorama documentaries.

The BBC is funded by every household in the UK who pay an annual licence fee. They don't show any ads and as such have no incentive to chase ratings. They are a public service broadcaster.

BBC journalists are widely regarded as some of the best journalists in the world with a strict impartiality. In fact it's the law here that UK based TV broadcasters must maintain a fair and even balance when reporting stories.

This program was not intended to attack Apple or the US. It was intended to test Tim Cook's claims that Apple has a higher moral compass than other tech companies by ensuring its supply chain workers are properly treated.
 
Oh, and let's be sure to ignore the irony of a British government funded piece complaining about the exploitation of foreign peoples... India anyone?

Not to mention the death camps invented for the second Boer war...
 
sualpine said:
So instead of presenting these findings to Apple and actually trying to improve the situation, they are going to capitalize on it by making a "documentary" for more $$$? Disgusting.
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Uh, no. Their job is to make documentaries, not reform suppliers. Your comment is blaming-the-messenger of the worst kind.

And, for the record, I don't think Apple should be the sole company held up for scrutiny in tis way, the way the BBC is doing. But your comment is, frankly, completely off track.
 
nebo1ss said:
While you are correct in saying that Apple have set standards in place and that all the standards are being broken by Pegatron. They also make the point that it does not take much digging to see that all the standards are broken and that Apple should be aware of this if they were doing anything more than a cursory check.

The problem is really that Apple in the person of Tim Cook likes to pontificate about the high standards they set for these factories and the intense monitoring that they do to control it. That is why the BBC went after Apple.

Some of the points made that I noted were.

1. Fake Audit trails because the workers are told how to fill out forms.
2. Overtime disguised as bonus payments to conceal the long hours worked.
3. Breaking the law by taking away workers identity cards.
4. Very Regimented environment with workers being treated like Sh@t constantly being shouted at and bullied, made to walk along yellow lines.
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention that Apple buys tin ore from the Indonesian island of Bangka, where children as young as 12 are involved in gathering tin ore. The documentary did highlight the fact that Apple is not alone in doing this with many other tech companies doing the same.
 
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