Being totally objective here on AW vs Garmin...

[NME42]

My Forerunner 965 gets 6 days with 1 hour GPS and streaming Spotify EVERY day. It has a big and bright always on display. No running to charge my watch for me. I know you wrote this post last year but my have times changed.

Hmmm. Garmin states 8.5 hours with All GPS and music streaming (to bluetooth headset) for the 965:

Forerunner 965 Watch Owner's Manual - Battery Life Information

www8.garmin.com

Compared to 19 hours without streaming, they still seem to have an issue with streaming music costing incredible battery life. Either a terrible implementation of music replay and streaming or the chipset is not happy with this kind of stuff.

For me personally, the battery life parameter is not a big thing. Never cared if I have to recharge my Garmin after 3 or 5 days. Now, my AW7 is at the edge but the Ultra has enough for me. Running >100km a week, every day.

Have fun with your 965, it sure is an amazing watch. Saying this without cynism or so.

 

[msackey]

My phone is miles away when I stream music. It's directly from the watch.

Ok. I wouldn’t call that streaming then. Streaming implies a live internet connection.

In any case, the AWU can also play music loaded onto itself. It’ll be more comparable to test the battery life of the AWU with Garmin 965 by turning off cellular data.

 

[Indianwin2001]

Ok. I wouldn’t call that streaming then. Streaming implies a live internet connection.

In any case, the AWU can also play music loaded onto itself. It’ll be more comparable to test the battery life of the AWU with Garmin 965 by turning off cellular data.

I realize all of this. Used Apple, including an Ultra for 5 years. BUT Garmin Connect has MUCH better metrics than Athlytic, training today etc... Also I don't need LTE. But that's my use case.

 

[msackey]

I realize all of this. Used Apple, including an Ultra for 5 years. BUT Garmin Connect has MUCH better metrics than Athlytic, training today etc... Also I don't need LTE. But that's my use case.

Understandable. I know some folks like the metrics Garmin produces. That's fine.

For me, there are a number of issues, including:
- information overload
- the metrics are not always actionable and I'd say for most people they are not actionable
- and what the metrics say they measure and how they do it can be dubious

But sure, if folks like to datafy and not worry about scrutinizing both the utility and accuracy of what those metrics purport to be measuring....

There are some metrics that are clear what they mean or clear how to measure them. There are other ones that are vastly inferential and there are many formulas to get to a number to make that interpretation, including things like recovery score or so-called battery fuel (or some such for the human body).

 

[Indianwin2001]

Understandable. I know some folks like the metrics Garmin produces. That's fine.

For me, there are a number of issues, including:
- information overload
- the metrics are not always actionable and I'd say for most people they are not actionable
- and what the metrics say they measure and how they do it can be dubious

But sure, if folks like to datafy and not worry about scrutinizing both the utility and accuracy of what those metrics purport to be measuring....

There are some metrics that are clear what they mean or clear how to measure them. There are other ones that are vastly inferential and there are many formulas to get to a number to make that interpretation, including things like recovery score or so-called battery fuel (or some such for the human body).

That's fine. Except by saying "battery fuel or such) its clear you never had a Garmin. So you really don't know what it measures. To each their own.

 

[msackey]

That's fine. Except by saying "battery fuel or such) its clear you never had a Garmin. So you really don't know what it measures. To each their own.

It's been a while since I owned Garmins, but yes I have owned several. The words I used were "including things like recovery score or so-called battery fuel (or some such for the human body)."

"Some such" is an indication that the feature's name is something I don't fully recall but the proximate noun used should give the general reader an idea what I'm referring to.

And yes, I have owned several Garmins with the last one being the Forerunner 630 so last I had it was around 2018. But if you want to jump to conclusion about what my experiences are or aren't, welp, there you go. That's your cup of tea.

 

[NME42]

Quit Garmin after the 945. Body battery did not show any reasonsble or useful stuff. Also Physio TrueUp (syncing between my 945 and my Edge) never worked reliably. Best one was after a 130km cycle workout with lots of elevation my 945 told me I should move now.

Runalyze is lots more realistic IMHO.

 

[johnb300m]

Interested in your opinion half a year later?

Taking some time to reflect, I have to agree with my initial assessment.
I don't really even miss my old Garmin, or the Connect app.
I've been quite content with my AWSE, to the point where I started getting some new straps.
I've gone on a plethora of dog walks with it. A few hikes. A few runs (not enough). Done some Fitness+ yoga and home spin classes. Even swimming, the AWSE has been better at tracking pool distances, stroke #s and types, and even heartrate! The Garmin never tracked heartrate underwater, I think it even shut off. The AW will try, and so far for me, it's tracked more swim HRs than not.
It's been quite nice.
The few quips I have are;

• battery life is a shortcoming. But I've created a regular charge routine where I almost don't even notice. Even with my old Garmin, I'd charge it every morning while getting ready, and same for getting ready for bed. I keep the charger in the bathroom. That way my AW battery is 90-100% every day, even allowing me to sleep with it every night, to track sleep.
• I've done some weight lifting workouts, and it's a little quirky, just like Garmin. AW is much better at tracking actual reps, but it's still clunky to progress through sets in a workout. IDK how you actually improve this honestly.
• AW is excellent at tracking fall-asleep time. However, it logs you as "awake" only when you stop your alarm. If I stop my alarm yet keep sleeping, I lose that sleep data. My Garmin VA3 was much better at that, sensing my movement or steps for "awakeness."

 

[PatrickNSF]

Quit Garmin after the 945. Body battery did not show any reasonsble or useful stuff. Also Physio TrueUp (syncing between my 945 and my Edge) never worked reliably. Best one was after a 130km cycle workout with lots of elevation my 945 told me I should move now.

Runalyze is lots more realistic IMHO.

All the good stuff came *after* the 945! 😂

 

[Indianwin2001]

All the good stuff came *after* the 945! 😂

Exactly. Garmin has come a long way from the VA3 and 945 days. Both Apple and Garmin are good. It's personal preference which one you like better.

 

[PatrickNSF]

Exactly. Garmin has come a long way from the VA3 and 945 days. Both Apple and Garmin are good. It's personal preference which one you like better.

I was (sort of) joking but training status and suggested workouts based on races are pretty great IMHO.

 

[Indianwin2001]

I was (sort of) joking but training status and suggested workouts based on races are pretty great IMHO.

Yea training status and acute load, chronic load and load ratio are awesome. To me it's better than " closing your rings" everyday, but again it's personal preference.

 

[NME42]

All the good stuff came *after* the 945! 😂

What is it, serious question.

When asking my friends (all well-trained triathletes or marathon runners) who own Fenix 7, Epix 2, 955 and 965 none of them says that the newly added metrics add any value for them. Instead, they are joking about the recommendations and observations their watches make.

The only thing that got better is the race predictor which was a joke before 945.
Still remember when my watch (a 935) was detecting a lactate threshold heart rate which was ok and at the same time predicted me a marathon race time which was faster than the lactate threshold pace (a pace which can be sustained for about an hour by definition).

 

[Indianwin2001]

What is it, serious question.

When asking my friends (all well-trained triathletes or marathon runners) who own Fenix 7, Epix 2, 955 and 965 none of them says that the newly added metrics add any value for them. Instead, they are joking about the recommendations and observations their watches make.

The only thing that got better is the race predictor which was a joke before 945.
Still remember when my watch (a 935) was detecting a lactate threshold heart rate which was ok and at the same time predicted me a marathon race time which was faster than the lactate threshold pace (a pace which can be sustained for about an hour by definition).

I'm glad you are closing your rings everyday. Great job.😂

 

[NME42]

I'm glad you are closing your rings everyday. Great job.😂

Why so offensive?

I am not interested in closing rings. Although I think it is a good idea for people who want to have some motivation doing some sports. I do not need this motivation, I do sports every day because I like it.

 

[Indianwin2001]

Why so offensive?

I am not interested in closing rings. Although I think it is a good idea for people who want to have some motivation doing some sports. I do not need this motivation, I do sports every day because I like it.

Sorry.👍

 

[Monkswhiskers]

I think a lot of it is what motivates you and feel better when training. I’ve had Garmins in the past and they do really give you a raft of info, too much for most people without a coach to dissect it all and make it actionable for the individual.
There are an awful lot of MAMILS out there who are looking to drop 1K on the top of the range sport watch as they think it will turn them into an elite athlete, I know plenty and I was one.
I have come to realise the AW and something like Training Today which gives a general recovery trend are fine for me.
Each to their own of course and a device can help with a bit of motivation but it must ultimately come from within.

 

[Indianwin2001]

I think a lot of it is what motivates you and feel better when training. I’ve had Garmins in the past and they do really give you a raft of info, too much for most people without a coach to dissect it all and make it actionable for the individual.
There are an awful lot of MAMILS out there who are looking to drop 1K on the top of the range sport watch as they think it will turn them into an elite athlete, I know plenty and I was one.
I have come to realise the AW and something like Training Today which gives a general recovery trend are fine for me.
Each to their own of course and a device can help with a bit of motivation but it must ultimately come from within.

Agreed. I've been training for over 40 years. I just love the data Garmin Connect gives you and I have studied first beats white papers so I have a good understanding of the metrics.

 

[msackey]

I think a lot of it is what motivates you and feel better when training. I’ve had Garmins in the past and they do really give you a raft of info, too much for most people without a coach to dissect it all and make it actionable for the individual.
There are an awful lot of MAMILS out there who are looking to drop 1K on the top of the range sport watch as they think it will turn them into an elite athlete, I know plenty and I was one.
I have come to realise the AW and something like Training Today which gives a general recovery trend are fine for me.
Each to their own of course and a device can help with a bit of motivation but it must ultimately come from within.

I definitely agree that there is way too much information provided by those metrics and also that there are likely a lot of OTHER things to adjust in one's life that would help improve one's athletic goals, especially if you're not already a professional or elite athlete.

It reminds me of two decades ago when I was frequenting bicycle shops (I was a serious bicycle commuter and bicycle tourer back then, but never was a bicycle athlete), I saw lots of men interested in finding components that would shave off a minuscule amount of grams from the total weight of their bicycles. Meanwhile, I was looking at their protruding bellies and was thinking: you could lose a lot more pounds by losing some human weight rather than spend thousands of dollars to upgrade some component to shave off a few (to a hundred-ish) grams. LOL.

 

[NME42]

Agreed. I've been training for over 40 years. I just love the data Garmin Connect gives you and I have studied first beats white papers so I have a good understanding of the metrics.

I am a number nerd too and have used GC quite a while. Would recommend you have a look also into Runalyze. This is way better as it can analyze in lots more ways and can easily be used together with GC, e.g. GC syncs all activities to Runalyze as they are uploaded.

 

[NME42]

I think a lot of it is what motivates you and feel better when training. I’ve had Garmins in the past and they do really give you a raft of info, too much for most people without a coach to dissect it all and make it actionable for the individual.

Good point and for me the biggest problem. I remember well when I bought the first HRMRUN monitor that captured all these running dynamic metrics, from Ground Contact time, to balance and all this stuff. Even as an experienced runner, I could give these numbers no real meaning for my training.
This is really missing from Garmin Connect. They have massive data but no real recommendation stuff behind that. All these things are not interconnected with each other.

 

[msackey]

Good point and for me the biggest problem. I remember well when I bought the first HRMRUN monitor that captured all these running dynamic metrics, from Ground Contact time, to balance and all this stuff. Even as an experienced runner, I could give these numbers no real meaning for my training.
This is really missing from Garmin Connect. They have massive data but no real recommendation stuff behind that. All these things are not interconnected with each other.

Regarding the HRM-Run. I have that and got it when it first came out.

I was interesting to see what my ground contact time was in relation to, supposedly, elite athletes etc. But once that comparison happened, there was nothing else I could use that information for.

Do I know how to improve my ground contact time (i.e., decrease it)?
Yes, I do.
How?
By doing plyometrics and other explosive exercises and drills.
Do I do them?
No. LOL. I've only done them when I was training with a track club and we had a coach. I was motivated enough to do them. But to do them on my own? Nope.

On the other hand, maybe there are some people who get motivated by looking at their quantified data. I suppose in that case, it's an example of how those metrics can make sense.

 

[Indianwin2001]

I am a number nerd too and have used GC quite a while. Would recommend you have a look also into Runalyze. This is way better as it can analyze in lots more ways and can easily be used together with GC, e.g. GC syncs all activities to Runalyze as they are uploaded.

thanks I’ll look into it

 

[NME42]

I was interesting to see what my ground contact time was in relation to, supposedly, elite athletes etc. But once that comparison happened, there was nothing else I could use that information for.

For me, things got even worse. Was looking at my Ground Contact Time Balance and as soon as the values were not 50/50 I was thinking about if there might be an injury coming. So in my next run I put a data field on one of my screens in Garmin and monitored even more closely during the run and tried several patterns to bring back 50/50. Absurd, I know.
Skipped the HRM-Run later. Same for cycling dynamics from my power meter. 20 values, no idea what to do with them.

A big opportunity IMHO for a sports platform to take all this data and build useful recommendations depending on the goals of their users. E.g. recommending and tracking concrete plyometric exercises when stride length compared to "similar" runners is short. And then plan these exercises and track progress over time and give feedback. A real personal artificial trainer.

 

[Zelegorm]

I realize all of this. Used Apple, including an Ultra for 5 years. BUT Garmin Connect has MUCH better metrics than Athlytic, training today etc... Also I don't need LTE. But that's my use case.

I disagree completely here. They have metrics. But inaccurate ones. Body battery is a joke in comparison to athlytics. The hardware HRV + Hr + sleep measurements are a joke. You can even not chose an external source like the oura ring.